Time to rid the world of Islam

[freakazoid]

As much as I hate to say it (because I firmly believe in freedom of religion), I am becoming stronger in my feelings that the world needs to declare war on islam and wipe it off the planet. Islam has become nothing more that a murderous cult and needs to be eliminated. That goes against my principles of religious freedom, but when I see this kind of sick blatant islamic brutality, I believe it is time to get rid of islam...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77-6OMB50Vo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4I0hGu2AEw

BAGHDAD, IRAQ (CNN) -- Authorities in northern Iraq have arrested four people in connection with the "honor killing" last month of a Kurdish teen -- a startling, morbid pummeling caught on a mobile phone video camera and broadcast around the world.

The case portrays the tragedy and brutality of honor killings in the Muslim world. Honor killings take place when family members kill relatives, almost always female, because they feel the relatives' actions have shamed the family.

In this case, Dua Khalil, a 17-year-old Kurdish girl whose religion is Yazidi, was dragged into a crowd in a headlock with police looking on and kicked, beaten and stoned to death last month...

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/05/18/iraq.honorkilling/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

[conspiracy]

As much as I hate to say it (because I firmly believe in freedom of religion), I am becoming stronger in my feelings that the world needs to declare war on islam and wipe it off the planet. Islam has become nothing more that a murderous cult and needs to be eliminated. That goes against my principles or religious freedom, but when I see this kind of sick blatant islamic brutality, I believe it is time to get rid of islam...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77-6OMB50Vo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4I0hGu2AEw

BAGHDAD, IRAQ (CNN) -- Authorities in northern Iraq have arrested four people in connection with the "honor killing" last month of a Kurdish teen -- a startling, morbid pummeling caught on a mobile phone video camera and broadcast around the world.

The case portrays the tragedy and brutality of honor killings in the Muslim world. Honor killings take place when family members kill relatives, almost always female, because they feel the relatives' actions have shamed the family.

In this case, Dua Khalil, a 17-year-old Kurdish girl whose religion is Yazidi, was dragged into a crowd in a headlock with police looking on and kicked, beaten and stoned to death last month...

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/05/18/iraq.honorkilling/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

One thing comes to mind when you say this......

The Crusades........

I think they actually took your suggestion to heart in that time.

[freakazoid]

One thing comes to mind when you say this......

The Crusades........

I think they actually took your suggestion to heart in that time.

Hell, maybe they were more right than we have understood.

[MrJim]

As much as I hate to say it (because I firmly believe in freedom of religion), I am becoming stronger in my feelings that the world needs to declare war on islam and wipe it off the planet. Islam has become nothing more that a murderous cult and needs to be eliminated. That goes against my principles or religious freedom, but when I see this kind of sick blatant islamic brutality, I believe it is time to get rid of islam...

Some may try to say the same about Christianity. The object of course is to eliminate killers, regardless of what their religious affiliation is. The peaceful muslims should be ashamed of what the extremists have done; it has given them much unwanted stereotypes.

[something]

So, if moslems were peacful, there would be no problems?

[something]

Some may try to say the same about Christianity. The object of course is to eliminate killers, regardless of what their religious affiliation is. The peaceful muslims should be ashamed of what the extremists have done; it has given them much unwanted stereotypes.

I agree, peacful moslems have been stereotyped by rest of Islam.

[England Expects]

From Matthews gospel

38"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'[g] 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[h] and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies[i] and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Any "Christian" that advocates war on another religion is betraying his own god.

[General Septem]

From Matthews gospel

38"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'[g] 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[h] and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies[i] and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Any "Christian" that advocates war on another religion is betraying his own god.

Jesus wasn't saying to let people walk all over you. He was just saying to forgive people for their transgressions.

[something]

From Matthews gospel

38"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'[g] 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[h] and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies[i] and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Any "Christian" that advocates war on another religion is betraying his own god.

Isn't that exactly whats the problem with terrorists is?

[hitekredneck]

the biggest problem is that fundementalism is only about 5-10% of the muslimm population...i know many muslim people personally that actually detest the kind of fundementalism that occurs back in the middle east and potrays them in such a light...but as i keep tellin em, until the muslim leaders unite against the terrorists with the rest of us, they're going to continue to have problems with racial profiling, among growing discrimination...

[hitekredneck]

From Matthews gospel

38"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'[g] 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[h] and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies[i] and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Any "Christian" that advocates war on another religion is betraying his own god.

what does this have to do with islam?

[freakazoid]

what does this have to do with islam?

Nothing, hitek, but you have to understand that our friend "England Expects" is a very confused person and comments of this nature are to be "expected" of him... Ignorance is a sad thing.


...I am still wondering just what exactly does England expect? http://forum.bullshit.com/images/icons/icon5.gif

[something]

what does this have to do with islam?

The point was that Freakazoid, as a christian, said that it's time to get rid of islam, then a few other, christians, disgreed with him, and then England put that out to prove that thoose people weren't real christians if they didn't get rid of Islam.

[England Expects]

Almost right, something. Freakazoid isn't a real christian if he thinks Islam should be wiped out.

Freak, I'm definitely not confused. I'm not blinded by an arrogant self-righteousness that my religious beliefs are any more valid than anyone elses.

I'm not blinded by the lies you post about Islam, Muslims or Israel and the incitement to hatred that you continually indulge in.

I'm not blinded by the racist media, who's one sided reporting are increasing levels of Islamophobia and portraying innocent muslims in the same light as terrorists, which is leading us further down the road to global destruction.

Open your eyes freakazoid, have a look at what's really happening.

And I've explained "England Expects". It was on the post that exposed your other lies, that you conveniently didn't reply to.

[freakazoid]

Almost right, something. Freakazoid isn't a real christian if he thinks Islam should be wiped out.

Freak, I'm definitely not confused. I'm not blinded by an arrogant self-righteousness that my religious beliefs are any more valid than anyone elses.

I'm not blinded by the lies you post about Islam, Muslims or Israel and the incitement to hatred that you continually indulge in.

I'm not blinded by the racist media, who's one sided reporting are increasing levels of Islamophobia and portraying innocent muslims in the same light as terrorists, which is leading us further down the road to global destruction.

Open your eyes freakazoid, have a look at what's really happening.

And I've explained "England Expects". It was on the post that exposed your other lies, that you conveniently didn't reply to.

Oh boy, here we go again...

OK, I'll explain it to our English Commie friend so he can understand...

I could give a damn about islam, whether it exists or not. In reality, islam is not the issue here...What they DO is. They have become an international threat to peace, security, freedom, decency and democracy. They have declared war on Western democracies and anyone who disagrees with them and are carrying out vicious attacks (no need to go into the details here, we all know what is being done in the name of islam). Islam is a terrorist organization and threat to the world, it needs to be attacked with any means necessary and destroyed. If the religion of islam survives, good for them, if it does not, I could not care less. They have a choice; live in peace with the rest of the world or face destruction.

Understand now, England Expects?

[England Expects]

Oh boy, here we go again...

OK, I'll explain it to our English Commie friend so he can understand...

I could give a damn about islam, whether it exists or not. In reality, islam is not the issue here...What they DO is. They have become an international threat to peace, security, freedom, decency and democracy. They have declared war on Western democracies and anyone who disagrees with them and are carrying out vicious attacks (no need to go into the details here, we all know what is being done in the name of islam). Islam is a terrorist organization and threat to the world, it needs to be attacked with any means necessary and destroyed. If the religion of islam survives, good for them, if it does not, I could not care less. They have a choice; live in peace with the rest of the world of face destruction.

Understand now, England Expects?

I understand you're a psychotic bigot who advocates genocide.

Islam hasn't declared war on anyone. Terrorists have declared war.

When the US bombs Iraq or Iran or anyone else, does that mean Christianity is bombing them?

Well done for replying to my post freak. It makes a refreshing change for you to have the courage, even if what you posted was a moronic rant.

[something]

Oh boy, here we go again...

OK, I'll explain it to our English Commie friend so he can understand...

I could give a damn about islam, whether it exists or not. In reality, islam is not the issue here...What they DO is. They have become an international threat to peace, security, freedom, decency and democracy. They have declared war on Western democracies and anyone who disagrees with them and are carrying out vicious attacks (no need to go into the details here, we all know what is being done in the name of islam). Islam is a terrorist organization and threat to the world, it needs to be attacked with any means necessary and destroyed. If the religion of islam survives, good for them, if it does not, I could not care less. They have a choice; live in peace with the rest of the world of face destruction.

Understand now, England Expects?

I agree with england here. You are kinda judging people here.

The point with Terrorism is to make people afraid, but they can't really do some actuall damage. And then I mean serious damage. Sure 9/11, London and Madrid attacks were horrible, but a lot of people think that terrorists would create a nuclear bomb and then kill millions of people. But I don't think they will. Or want to. Or can.

[freakazoid]

I understand you're a psychotic bigot who advocates genocide.

Islam hasn't declared war on anyone. Terrorists have declared war.

When the US bombs Iraq or Iran or anyone else, does that mean Christianity is bombing them?

Well done for replying to my post freak. It makes a refreshing change for you to have the courage, even if what you posted was a moronic rant.

You're absolutely correct...I want to commit genocide...I want to wipe EVERY TERRORIST off the planet...kill every last one of them. Hunt them down and kill them...no mercy, no quarter, no explanation, no hesitation...kill them en masse'. How's that for some genocide? Cool eh? "a psychotic bigot who advocates genocide"...no, that would fit you; a psychotic bigot would wants to protect terrorists with your head up your mixed up confused ass.

[MrJim]

I could give a damn about islam, whether it exists or not. In reality, islam is not the issue here...What they DO is. They have become an international threat to peace, security, freedom, decency and democracy. They have declared war on Western democracies and anyone who disagrees with them and are carrying out vicious attacks (no need to go into the details here, we all know what is being done in the name of islam). Islam is a terrorist organization and threat to the world, it needs to be attacked with any means necessary and destroyed. If the religion of islam survives, good for them, if it does not, I could not care less. They have a choice; live in peace with the rest of the world or face destruction.

I think of it like this, Freak... Christianity is split into many different denominations, you know, Catholics, Baptists, Presbyterians, etc. I honestly don't know the exact breakdown of Islamic denominations, but I do know Islam has them. And al-Qaida belongs to one of them, but necessarily not the rest.

Suppose that a denomination broke out among Christianity that started suiciding bombing and beheading non-Christians... it wouldn't be fair to say that it's time to rid the world of Christianity because of them, am I right?

[freakazoid]

I think of it like this, Freak... Christianity is split into many different denominations, you know, Catholics, Baptists, Presbyterians, etc. I honestly don't know the exact breakdown of Islamic denominations, but I do know Islam has them. And al-Qaida belongs to one of them, but necessarily not the rest.

Suppose that a denomination broke out among Christianity that started suiciding bombing and beheading non-Christians... it wouldn't be fair to say that it's time to rid the world of Christianity because of them, am I right?

True, this is why I am referring to the terrorists within so-called "islam." Christianity is not doing what islam is doing. If "it" were, I would expect the rest of the world to do something about the problem. One thing is CERTAIN...islam could put a stop to what the terrorist element within it's religion are doing, but they are not, so, the rest of the world will have to stop it if they can't or won't. In doing so, people are going to get hurt, and some actions may not seem fair; that can't be helped. The choice is islam's; stop the terror, or the world will take what actions needed to do so. As far as I am concerned, I have had enough of islam. It's a sick pagan religion and has gone way too far. The rest of the world is justified in doing what it must to stop these wothless bastards and get that pagan idiocy under control. There is no justification for what islam has and is doing.

[England Expects]

Your just using terrorism to justify your hatred of Islam.

Islam does not equal terrorism. We have 1.5m Muslims living perfectly peacefully here. 5 committed terrorist attacks in London, so ignorant bigots like you think its time to kill them all.

How do you reconcile your advocacy of genocide with your Christianity freakazoid?

First you post that Islam should be wiped out, then you post

"If the religion of islam survives, good for them"

Its clear that it's you who are confused.

[hitekredneck]

Your just using terrorism to justify your hatred of Islam.

Islam does not equal terrorism. We have 1.5m Muslims living perfectly peacefully here. 5 committed terrorist attacks in London, so ignorant bigots like you think its time to kill them all.

How do you reconcile your advocacy of genocide with your Christianity freakazoid?

First you post that Islam should be wiped out, then you post

"If the religion of islam survives, good for them"

Its clear that it's you who are confused.


i think you're misconstruing what freak's saying, mang....lemme see if i may put it in a better light...
islamic clerics and many of the muslims seen on tv have done nothing to condemn the acts purpetrated by the muslim terrorists...in fact, a great many seen on the "telly" have egged em on...saying that infidels must die as purported in the quran...you never hear of the upper echelon muslims demanding the terrorists stop these horrible acts, nor do you hear them calling for the criminals to come forward in surrender to gain peace....that's the reason behind all the public problems that the muslims have...instead of helping to stop the acts, they're more worried about whether they can wear a fuckin head scarve in fuckin public...i know a great many muslims here in the states, and have no problem with them personally, as they've stated to me that the terrorists should have a special place in hell just for them, and they've also stated that their own leaders should step up to the plate...but until that happens, you will continue seeing discrimination, prejudice, and even violence against them, and tho i don't condone the actions, i understand em, and for the most part, muslim leaders have brought this onto their followers...

[England Expects]

I understand that hitek. Sure Islamic clerics could be more outspoken, but it would fall on deaf ears.

The terrorists distort Islam for their own purposes. They have no regard for the Qu'ran, or for any moderate Muslim cleric who tells them they're wrong. Its kinda like the Pope telling the Mormons they're only supposed to have one wife. Dya think they'd listen???

Yeah the Qu'ran says infidels must die, but it also says basically the same thing in the old testament.

I say lets execute all those that believe in the Qu'ran, the Torah and the Gospels. That should sort it all out. (only kidding)

This will never be settled until Palestinians are allowed to live and prosper in their own land.

[hitekredneck]

I understand that hitek. Sure Islamic clerics could be more outspoken, but it would fall on deaf ears.

The terrorists distort Islam for their own purposes. They have no regard for the Qu'ran, or for any moderate Muslim cleric who tells them they're wrong. Its kinda like the Pope telling the Mormons they're only supposed to have one wife. Dya think they'd listen???

Yeah the Qu'ran says infidels must die, but it also says basically the same thing in the old testament.

I say lets execute all those that believe in the Qu'ran, the Torah and the Gospels. That should sort it all out. (only kidding)

This will never be settled until Palestinians are allowed to live and prosper in their own land.

it won't be settled even then, england...it's not just about the palestinian homeland, it's about fundementalist islam versus infidels (the rest of the world)...as long as there's extremests on any given side, there's gonna be these dumbasses (on any given side, mind you) that insist theirs is the only way.....
btw, mormons have absolutely nothing to do with the catholic religion

[England Expects]

You may be right, but if Palestinians had a better deal in their own land, it would remove their justification and make it more difficult for the extremist to recruit and brainwash more kids.

[hitekredneck]

You may be right, but if Palestinians had a better deal in their own land, it would remove their justification and make it more difficult for the extremist to recruit and brainwash more kids.

to be honest with you, after reading and researching the israel/palestinian conflict, i think everybody shoulda stayed outa that one and let them hammer it out...they both have historical rights to the area
but the muslim/infidel conflict goes way beyond that and has for centuries

[England Expects]

Very true.

The American steadfast and unquestioning support for Israel makes you fair game in Palestinian eyes. Historically, we're just as much to blame, but less so in recent years.

[freakazoid]

i think you're misconstruing what freak's saying, mang....lemme see if i may put it in a better light...
islamic clerics and many of the muslims seen on tv have done nothing to condemn the acts purpetrated by the muslim terrorists...in fact, a great many seen on the "telly" have egged em on...saying that infidels must die as purported in the quran...you never hear of the upper echelon muslims demanding the terrorists stop these horrible acts, nor do you hear them calling for the criminals to come forward in surrender to gain peace....that's the reason behind all the public problems that the muslims have...instead of helping to stop the acts, they're more worried about whether they can wear a fuckin head scarve in fuckin public...i know a great many muslims here in the states, and have no problem with them personally, as they've stated to me that the terrorists should have a special place in hell just for them, and they've also stated that their own leaders should step up to the plate...but until that happens, you will continue seeing discrimination, prejudice, and even violence against them, and tho i don't condone the actions, i understand em, and for the most part, muslim leaders have brought this onto their followers...

Right on! Some clear thinking here! http://forum.bullshit.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

[WhiteRaven]

no knowledge should ever be wiped out, no matter how it impacts the world.

"If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you."

horrible advice.

[freakazoid]

So, if moslems were peacful, there would be no problems?

Who said that? It sounds like you are making a statement that could be like...

So, if nazis were peacful, there would be no problems?

Of course all of the problems in the world would not suddenly disapear, but, in fact, a lot would. The world is filled with moslem violence, moslem created catastrophes, moslem terrorism, moslem hatred, moslem created poverty and ignorance. The world would be simply much better off getting islam under control worldwide. It is a poison.

[freakazoid]

Very true.

The American steadfast and unquestioning support for Israel makes you fair game in Palestinian eyes. Historically, we're just as much to blame, but less so in recent years.

http://forum.bullshit.com/images/icons/icon14.gif Damn, you are so right; we have this terrible habit of supporting free open democracies, nations like The State Israel. A nation that the world should be proud of. If you don't like us supporting Israel...FOAD. (I'll let you figure out what that means, England Expects).




I still would like to know what England expects????

[General Septem]

no knowledge should ever be wiped out, no matter how it impacts the world.

"If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you."

horrible advice.

At face value, I tend to agree. However I think there may be a deeper meaning to it.

[hitekredneck]

At face value, I tend to agree. However I think there may be a deeper meaning to it.

it does, but as so many things in the bible, to much contradiction...

[MrJim]

http://forum.bullshit.com/images/icons/icon14.gif Damn, you are so right; we have this terrible habit of supporting free open democracies, nations like The State Israel. A nation that the world should be proud of. If you don't like us supporting Israel...FOAD. (I'll let you figure out what that means, England Expects).


Problem is, Freak, Iran is ALSO a democracy... doesn't always work... FOAD stands for Fucked Over at an Acura Dealership, right? Just kidding... anyone that don't like me can fuck off and die :D

[hitekredneck]

Problem is, Freak, Iran is ALSO a democracy... doesn't always work... FOAD stands for Fucked Over at an Acura Dealership, right? Just kidding... anyone that don't like me can fuck off and die :D

you got it right so far jim, but are ya gonna tell him what england expects? :D

[MrJim]

you got it right so far jim, but are ya gonna tell him what england expects? :D

England probably expects me to give up my car, air conditioning, beliefs, and rights to a dictator... but tough shit, dude... America is past the dark ages... alas... :cool:

[hitekredneck]

England probably expects me to give up my car, air conditioning, beliefs, and rights to a dictator... but tough shit, dude... America is past the dark ages... alas... :cool:

not to a dictator...to the poor, mang....you know, redistribution of wealth...hell, i never did see england answer my post about the birds...wonder why? :confused:

[MrJim]

not to a dictator...to the poor, mang....you know, redistribution of wealth...hell, i never did see england answer my post about the birds...wonder why? :confused:

The poor... a dictator that passes it out to the poor... some difference.

I admire you for going into business for yourself... I may end up doing the same one day... of course... if I ever finish writing this movie... but it's a little scary not being guaranteed the same pay each week :eek:

[hitekredneck]

The poor... a dictator that passes it out to the poor... some difference.

I admire you for going into business for yourself... I may end up doing the same one day... of course... if I ever finish writing this movie... but it's a little scary not being guaranteed the same pay each week :eek:

scary ain't the word for it, jim...right now it's slow...haven't ran in 2 weeks...but it starts again monday night, thank god...

[MrJim]

scary ain't the word for it, jim...right now it's slow...haven't ran in 2 weeks...but it starts again monday night, thank god...

I must admit I didn't quite believe you when you were talking about the prices going up to make up for fuel costs...

My logic:
General Mills delivers 1,000 boxes of cereal to Texas from Ohio. If the fuel cost difference was $100.00, if the trucker past on the cost to the manufacturer, it would amount to $.10 per box, hardly an expense the company would miss... they are counting on the huge difference between sales and manufacturing... so I guessed...

But just going shopping for groceries this weekend has dictated otherwise... a gallon of Borden's milk cost close to $5.00 a gallon, versus $4.00 a gallon over the last few years, versus $2.00 a gallon about 2001... are we really getting gouged, or am I flawed in my logic (keep in mind I am on my 12th beer :D)

[hitekredneck]

I must admit I didn't quite believe you when you were talking about the prices going up to make up for fuel costs...

My logic:
General Mills delivers 1,000 boxes of cereal to Texas from Ohio. If the fuel cost difference was $100.00, if the trucker past on the cost to the manufacturer, it would amount to $.10 per box, hardly an expense the company would miss... they are counting on the huge difference between sales and manufacturing... so I guessed...

But just going shopping for groceries this weekend has dictated otherwise... a gallon of Borden's milk cost close to $5.00 a gallon, versus $4.00 a gallon over the last few years, versus $2.00 a gallon about 2001... are we really getting gouged, or am I flawed in my logic (keep in mind I am on my 12th beer :D)

it isn't the beer, jim...and i dunno if you can actually consider it getting gouged, because it ain't gouging if nobody does anything about it...but think on this...when i first went into business just over a year ago, i was paying around 2.25pg for diesel...as of this weekend, it's right around 3.19pg...when you only get between 5 and 7 mpg, you're talking a pretty substantial loss in revenue due to high fuel prices...there's also the higher cost of maintaining my truck...a yr ago?...175.00 for an oil change...nothing fancy, just oil, filters and lube...now? 325.00...and in order for truckers to stay in business, we HAVE to pass the cost along to the next person...and you know the ole sayin about shit rollin downhill, well, buddy, the consumer's at the bottom of the pile :cool:

[MrJim]

it isn't the beer, jim...and i dunno if you can actually consider it getting gouged, because it ain't gouging if nobody does anything about it...but think on this...when i first went into business just over a year ago, i was paying around 2.25pg for diesel...as of this weekend, it's right around 3.19pg...when you only get between 5 and 7 mpg, you're talking a pretty substantial loss in revenue due to high fuel prices...there's also the higher cost of maintaining my truck...a yr ago?...175.00 for an oil change...nothing fancy, just oil, filters and lube...now? 325.00...and in order for truckers to stay in business, we HAVE to pass the cost along to the next person...and you know the ole sayin about shit rollin downhill, well, buddy, the consumer's at the bottom of the pile :cool:

I am curious about the oil change... I have noticed little if any difference in the cost of an automobile oil change over the last few years... describe your situation.

[hitekredneck]

I am curious about the oil change... I have noticed little if any difference in the cost of an automobile oil change over the last few years... describe your situation.

well, with big trucks, an oil change also includes all filters, including fuel filters...that might account for the higher cost...on my truck, there's 2 oil filters, and 3 fuel filters...big bastards, too....lmao

[MrJim]

well, with big trucks, an oil change also includes all filters, including fuel filters...that might account for the higher cost...on my truck, there's 2 oil filters, and 3 fuel filters...big bastards, too....lmao

I see... tell me about the difference in price 3 years ago and now... I'm looking for specifics to describe the causes behind inflation, no defamatory questions I promise...

[hitekredneck]

I see... tell me about the difference in price 3 years ago and now... I'm looking for specifics to describe the causes behind inflation, no defamatory questions I promise...

hell, i dunno why the increase, to be hones with you...maybe wages, maybe just a lil bit of everything....i think it's tied to the higher oil prices somehow...right now i'm thinking about testing out that biodiesel...supposed to boost performance and economy...we'll see

[MrJim]

hell, i dunno why the increase, to be hones with you...maybe wages, maybe just a lil bit of everything....i think it's tied to the higher oil prices somehow...right now i'm thinking about testing out that biodiesel...supposed to boost performance and economy...we'll see

Biodiesel is great for those who work in restarurants... round up that nasty grease no one wants and... BOOM... free gas... I am leerie about the nature of it en masse, however... every alternative I think could choke the food chain or the water supply.

[Walter Weiss]

Islamic teachings technically dont allow for warfare outside of the homeland. Islamic teachings dont allow for the killing of Women, Children, wounded soldiers, etc. The infidel can technically be killed in combat if he is an invader, but if he falls only wounded in that combat, then it is against the teachings of Islam to take from him his life, and to deny him that which he needs to sustain life.

What we are seeing today is a perverted form of Islamic teaching....the terrorist having strayed so far from Islam, that Islam is becoming unrecognizable due to the teachings of the terrorists.

Christianity was born of Judaism. Chrisitianity has a bloody, bloody, history, and so does Islam. Christians have slaughtered and murdered. Christians have sat in cockpits of aircraft, and dropped bombs on other Christians. Christians even stuffed children alive into crematoriums when they ran out of chemicals to gas them with, some of these christians actually wearing proudly a christian cross made of iron and silver on their chest or about their neck while they did such a deed.

You cant blame the subject of religion for this war. You can only blame the individuals who chose to pervert a religious belief system in order to use it as a weapon of war. Terrorists exploit the weaker minded degenerate beings....by ranting and raving....and by inducing them to commit crime and murder.

The terrorist is a piece of garbage that threatens us all. You cant fight the terrorist with a bunch of Hillary and Bill Clintons. You cant defend a nation with a bunch of trashed out degenerate left over hippies. You cant fight terrorism with a troop pullout. You fight terrorism by committing to war, and winning the war in order to eliminate the threat....not by stuffing daisy flowers into rifle barrells while smoking marijuana and sucking on alcohol and screaming for gay rights.

There is yet another terrorist lurking behind the backs of the American soldier and citizen, and that is the demo-libian terrorist that is destroying and weakening this nation each and every day by weakening large portions of our society. They stab the American soldier in the back. This element actually endangers our children. It endangers our future. It is just as bad as terrorism, and is technically a form of terrorism in itself.

[freakazoid]

Islamic teachings technically dont allow for warfare outside of the homeland. Islamic teachings dont allow for the killing of Women, Children, wounded soldiers, etc. The infidel can technically be killed in combat if he is an invader, but if he falls only wounded in that combat, then it is against the teachings of Islam to take from him his life, and to deny him that which he needs to sustain life.

What we are seeing today is a perverted form of Islamic teaching....the terrorist having strayed so far from Islam, that Islam is becoming unrecognizable due to the teachings of the terrorists.

Christianity was born of Judaism. Chrisitianity has a bloody, bloody, history, and so does Islam. Christians have slaughtered and murdered. Christians have sat in cockpits of aircraft, and dropped bombs on other Christians. Christians even stuffed children alive into crematoriums when they ran out of chemicals to gas them with, some of these christians actually wearing proudly a christian cross made of iron and silver on their chest or about their neck while they did such a deed.

You cant blame the subject of religion for this war. You can only blame the individuals who chose to pervert a religious belief system in order to use it as a weapon of war. Terrorists exploit the weaker minded degenerate beings....by ranting and raving....and by inducing them to commit crime and murder.

The terrorist is a piece of garbage that threatens us all. You cant fight the terrorist with a bunch of Hillary and Bill Clintons. You cant defend a nation with a bunch of trashed out degenerate left over hippies. You cant fight terrorism with a troop pullout. You fight terrorism by committing to war, and winning the war in order to eliminate the threat....not by stuffing daisy flowers into rifle barrells while smoking marijuana and sucking on alcohol and screaming for gay rights.

There is yet another terrorist lurking behind the backs of the American soldier and citizen, and that is the demo-libian terrorist that is destroying and weakening this nation each and every day by weakening large portions of our society. They stab the American soldier in the back. This element actually endangers our children. It endangers our future. It is just as bad as terrorism, and is technically a form of terrorism in itself.

Walter, to be honest, I really don't care what islam "really teaches" because all of that is a matter of interpretation. I do, however, care what they are in fact doing. I care what they are currently doing, not what some have taught that islam has been. They are killing people all over the world in the name of "islam." Besides the sensational terrorism we have all seen on TV and in other news sources, brutal acts such as beheading three little girls walking to school and putting the bodies and heads of the steps of a church in Indonesia, or dragging a women into a football field size taliban ra ra rally, beating her in public as the crowd laughed...when they were done beating her (as she pleaded of her life), they put a rifle to the back of her head and blew her brains out as the crowd wet nuts with cheers. Or, of course, the video I posted here...a 17 year old girl brutally dragged into the street kicked and beaten to death by members of her own family in the street as the "security forces" look on doing nothing. This was an "honor killing" simply because she had a friend of a difference religion. All done in the name of islam. The world needs to confront islam in the strongest manner and get that sick brutal pagan superstition under control.

[Monster_Hangover]

Walter, to be honest, I really don't care what islam "really teaches" because all of that is a matter of interpretation. I do, however, care what they are in fact doing. I care what they are currently doing, not what some have taught that islam has been. They are killing people all over the world in the name of "islam." Besides the sensational terrorism we have all seen on TV and in other news sources, brutal acts such as beheading three little girls walking to school and putting the bodies and heads of the steps of a church in Indonesia, or dragging a women into a football field size taliban ra ra rally, beating her in public as the crowd laughed...when they were done beating her (as she pleaded of her life), they put a rifle to the back of her head and blew her brains out as the crowd wet nuts with cheers. Or, of course, the video I posted here...a 17 year old girl brutally dragged into the street kicked and beaten to death by members of her own family in the street as the "security forces" look on doing nothing. This was an "honor killing" simply because she had a friend of a difference religion. All done in the name of islam. The world needs to confront islam in the strongest manner and get that sick brutal pagan superstition under control.

We have lot's of criminals murdering innocent people here too do we not? and yeah I think anyone doing such things lacks honor no matter what they murder in the name of, including islam.

[hitekredneck]

Walter, to be honest, I really don't care what islam "really teaches" because all of that is a matter of interpretation. I do, however, care what they are in fact doing. I care what they are currently doing, not what some have taught that islam has been. They are killing people all over the world in the name of "islam." Besides the sensational terrorism we have all seen on TV and in other news sources, brutal acts such as beheading three little girls walking to school and putting the bodies and heads of the steps of a church in Indonesia, or dragging a women into a football field size taliban ra ra rally, beating her in public as the crowd laughed...when they were done beating her (as she pleaded of her life), they put a rifle to the back of her head and blew her brains out as the crowd wet nuts with cheers. Or, of course, the video I posted here...a 17 year old girl brutally dragged into the street kicked and beaten to death by members of her own family in the street as the "security forces" look on doing nothing. This was an "honor killing" simply because she had a friend of a difference religion. All done in the name of islam. The world needs to confront islam in the strongest manner and get that sick brutal pagan superstition under control.

not just islam, freak my friend...extremists of every stripe...

[freakazoid]

not just islam, freak my friend...extremists of every stripe...

True, very true, hitek. Islam is merely the latest group of assholes to think that killing people in the name of their sick crap is just fine.

[walidean]

If you think this is the solution then try it and see what will happen , what are you an idiot?

[MrJim]

Christianity was born of Judaism. Chrisitianity has a bloody, bloody, history, and so does Islam. Christians have slaughtered and murdered. Christians have sat in cockpits of aircraft, and dropped bombs on other Christians. Christians even stuffed children alive into crematoriums when they ran out of chemicals to gas them with, some of these christians actually wearing proudly a christian cross made of iron and silver on their chest or about their neck while they did such a deed.

The only thing I can assume you are referring to in this paragraph is Hitler... in which case Nazi's weren't real Christians but a perverted version of such... one against the Jews which crucified the Christian Prophet and are not Christians in the first place... if I am wrong, feel free to correct me, and elaborate.

[Loseirdo]

Wearing a cross doesn't make you a Christian -- believing and following the teachings of Christ does. The same is true for followers of Islam -- the extremists may call themselves Muslims, but they're just terrorists. Islam has had a distinctly intolerant past, however; (WARNING: HISTORY LESSON) the Crusades were a retaliatory effort on the part of the Catholic Church in response to the many thousands of Christians that had been mercilessly slaughtered by Muslims during the unjust acquisition of Christian territory. There is no contradiction between the Crusades and the "turn the other cheek" teaching of Christ, however; Christ's teachings were intended to help people govern their own lives, whereas Moses' teachings were intended to help governments govern their people. This is clear from the simple fact that evil would run the world if every good person rolled over in the face of opposition. When a nation of people are under attack, it is not unchristian-like to fight back -- when you are personally assaulted, it is.

[General Septem]

Wearing a cross doesn't make you a Christian -- believing and following the teachings of Christ does. The same is true for followers of Islam -- the extremists may call themselves Muslims, but they're just terrorists. Islam has had a distinctly intolerant past, however; (WARNING: HISTORY LESSON) the Crusades were a retaliatory effort on the part of the Catholic Church in response to the many thousands of Christians that had been mercilessly slaughtered by Muslims during the unjust acquisition of Christian territory. There is no contradiction between the Crusades and the "turn the other cheek" teaching of Christ, however; Christ's teachings were intended to help people govern their own lives, whereas Moses' teachings were intended to help governments govern their people. This is clear from the simple fact that evil would run the world if every good person rolled over in the face of opposition. When a nation of people are under attack, it is not unchristian-like to fight back -- when you are personally assaulted, it is.

So it's acceptable for governments to fight back against other governments, but not acceptable for an individual to stand up for himself if he's being robbed?

[freakazoid]

If you think this is the solution then try it and see what will happen , what are you an idiot?

Nhaaaaa...I just hate nazis. http://forum.bullshit.com/images/icons/icon13.gif

[Loseirdo]

So it's acceptable for governments to fight back against other governments, but not acceptable for an individual to stand up for himself if he's being robbed?

Christ said to turn the other cheek. What are material possessions, anyway? If we have faith in the Lord, He will protect us. That doesn't mean we'll never encounter any hardships. It simply means that we'll always make it out on top (which, again, is misleading, as it refers to both spiritual safety as well as physical -- while our physical being may not always be safe, our souls are always under the Lord's protection). Don't be a vigilante, in other words.

The person mugging you should still be held accountable for their actions, and if you had the chance, you should testify against them in court. But the real trouble they will face are the spiritual ramifications of their actions. Pray for their reformation in the hopes that they will understand how they have failed, but do not fight them.

It is damn hard to be a good Christian, especially these days.

[hitekredneck]

Christ said to turn the other cheek. What are material possessions, anyway? If we have faith in the Lord, He will protect us. That doesn't mean we'll never encounter any hardships. It simply means that we'll always make it out on top (which, again, is misleading, as it refers to both spiritual safety as well as physical -- while our physical being may not always be safe, our souls are always under the Lord's protection). Don't be a vigilante, in other words.

The person mugging you should still be held accountable for their actions, and if you had the chance, you should testify against them in court. But the real trouble they will face are the spiritual ramifications of their actions. Pray for their reformation in the hopes that they will understand how they have failed, but do not fight them.

It is damn hard to be a good Christian, especially these days.

los, i do respect your thoughts, but here i must disagree...sure, christ said turn the other cheek, but the almighty states an eye for an eye in the old books....imho, god loves his warriors as much as the meek, after all, look at the archangels...micheal's a true badass, and a swordsman like no other, according to legend...joan of arc was burned at the stake for communing what god was telling her, and she was every bit the warrior maid....if i stand up for myself against an attacker, that does not make me a vigilante...if i track the sonofabitch down to give him a 12 guage enema, then that makes me a vigilante...now for a question....if i see a man attacking a woman, am i wrong to interfere with deadly force?...according to your words, if i understand you correctly, i'm to allow this action to take place and hope the guy gets punished, right?...sorry, but in this world, the bad guys get away with entirely too much as it is....
one last thought...material things ARE important in this life as they allow you to live more comfortably, and i work damned hard for what i have...if somebody wants to take em, they's gonna have to wrok damned hard at it...;)

[Loseirdo]

los, i do respect your thoughts, but here i must disagree...sure, christ said turn the other cheek, but the almighty states an eye for an eye in the old books....imho, god loves his warriors as much as the meek, after all, look at the archangels...micheal's a true badass, and a swordsman like no other, according to legend...joan of arc was burned at the stake for communing what god was telling her, and she was every bit the warrior maid....if i stand up for myself against an attacker, that does not make me a vigilante...if i track the sonofabitch down to give him a 12 guage enema, then that makes me a vigilante...now for a question....if i see a man attacking a woman, am i wrong to interfere with deadly force?...according to your words, if i understand you correctly, i'm to allow this action to take place and hope the guy gets punished, right?...sorry, but in this world, the bad guys get away with entirely too much as it is....
one last thought...material things ARE important in this life as they allow you to live more comfortably, and i work damned hard for what i have...if somebody wants to take em, they's gonna have to wrok damned hard at it...;)

You misunderstood what I said. Let me see if I can elaborate.

Michael is a badass, and is one of my favorite Biblical characters. The difference here is that he engages in battling pure evil. No human (or very few, anyway) falls under this category. Joan of Arc also specialized in leading a resistance faction -- an uprising of the people against the English. This was a matter of people vs. government, not person vs. person. She wasn't miffed because someone stepped on her foot, in other words.

I did not specify this next part, and I apologize. The law of Christ applies to you only when your own personal being is at stake -- when it comes to defending other people, putting yourself in harm's way to save someone is one of the most noble of sacrifices. Sorry for the ambiguity there.

That does not mean, however, that you are always justified in using deadly force -- only in the name of self-defense, and then only if it could not be avoided. Life is a precious thing, and I would not fault anyone for protecting their life, but it brings to mind a certain scripture: "He who saves his life shall lose it, but he who loses his life for My sake shall find it." If you have lived an honest and charitable life, what cause for fear have you of death?

Material possessions do make life more comfortable, but it's a matter of comfort vs. survival. Do you need a nice car to live? Do you need a big house? Do you need to eat out every night? If someone mugs you and steals three hundred dollars, what is that, in the grand scheme of things? If you needed that money for food, you can probably find another way to eat. Ask and the Lord will provide. You just need to have faith. I admit that it's extremely difficult to do so sometimes, but that's all we truly need.

[General Septem]

Christ said to turn the other cheek. What are material possessions, anyway? If we have faith in the Lord, He will protect us. That doesn't mean we'll never encounter any hardships. It simply means that we'll always make it out on top (which, again, is misleading, as it refers to both spiritual safety as well as physical -- while our physical being may not always be safe, our souls are always under the Lord's protection). Don't be a vigilante, in other words.

The person mugging you should still be held accountable for their actions, and if you had the chance, you should testify against them in court. But the real trouble they will face are the spiritual ramifications of their actions. Pray for their reformation in the hopes that they will understand how they have failed, but do not fight them.

It is damn hard to be a good Christian, especially these days.

You make sense, but your arguments rely on the assumption that the state has some sovereign right that we don't. The courts don't have any more right to carry out justice than I have, particularly when the aggression against me is immediate.

Do I believe in using unnecessary lethal force? No. However, I'm not playing any guessing games as to whether or not the bastard is going to try and kill me or just take my money, and I don't care. Nobody has any right to take my money from me, and I have every right to protect myself.

I don't hold the same opinion when it comes to robbing bigger businesses. After all, they have nothing to lose, they're insured (and they're stupid if they're not). But I earned my money and I deserve the right to protect it.

What's $300? I could buy something really nice with $300. Something I'll enjoy and thank God for every time I see or use it. Or, I could give it to charity and keep a village fed for a week. In the former case, sure it may not be something I need, but I don't care. How I spend my money is my own business (as is just whether or not I "need" or have valuable use for what I own), and all else equal, $300 is a hell of a lot of money in the right hands. Just how much do you own that you don't need? What's your definition of "need"?

Pacifism is inherently dangerous. Those who beat their swords into pruning hooks will prune for those who don't. There will be plenty of time to live in peace when Christ comes back. Until then, I've got my guns cocked and ready to crack skulls.

[Loseirdo]

You make sense, but your arguments rely on the assumption that the state has some sovereign right that we don't. The courts don't have any more right to carry out justice than I have, particularly when the aggression against me is immediate.

Do I believe in using unnecessary lethal force? No. However, I'm not playing any guessing games as to whether or not the bastard is going to try and kill me or just take my money, and I don't care. Nobody has any right to take my money from me, and I have every right to protect myself.

I don't hold the same opinion when it comes to robbing bigger businesses. After all, they have nothing to lose, they're insured (and they're stupid if they're not). But I earned my money and I deserve the right to protect it.

What's $300? I could buy something really nice with $300. Something I'll enjoy and thank God for every time I see or use it. Or, I could give it to charity and keep a village fed for a week. In the former case, sure it may not be something I need, but I don't care. How I spend my money is my own business (as is just whether or not I "need" or have valuable use for what I own), and all else equal, $300 is a hell of a lot of money in the right hands. Just how much do you own that you don't need? What's your definition of "need"?

Pacifism is inherently dangerous. Those who beat their swords into pruning hooks will prune for those who don't. There will be plenty of time to live in peace when Christ comes back. Until then, I've got my guns cocked and ready to crack skulls.

I understand what you're saying and I can't say I'm any different. I'm not the best Christian I can be, and I'm sure God understands that. But when you look over who has been sainted, how many of them were peaceful and how many were warlike? For that matter, how many were martyrs? I think those that died for their belief were far greater than those that killed for it. Many saints lived in poverty as well. "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." (paraphrased)

Not everyone is cut out to be a saint, though.

[General Septem]

I understand what you're saying and I can't say I'm any different. I'm not the best Christian I can be, and I'm sure God understands that. But when you look over who has been sainted, how many of them were peaceful and how many were warlike? For that matter, how many were martyrs? I think those that died for their belief were far greater than those that killed for it. Many saints lived in poverty as well. "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." (paraphrased)

Not everyone is cut out to be a saint, though.

We don't know anything about most of the saints because few have been canonized, but as far as the martyrs go, when you're facing an entire army, you've got to know that you're not going to shoot your way through.

What about the founding fathers of this country? They're not canonized saints, but had they been Catholic I think they might well have been.

The best way to help the poor is to not be one of them. You don't have to go overseas as a missionary (your help won't be appreciated anyway - the atheists will just accuse you of forcing your religion on them). Funding them is just as meaningful.

[Loseirdo]

We don't know anything about most of the saints because few have been canonized, but as far as the martyrs go, when you're facing an entire army, you've got to know that you're not going to shoot your way through.

What about the founding fathers of this country? They're not canonized saints, but had they been Catholic I think they might well have been.

The best way to help the poor is to not be one of them. You don't have to go overseas as a missionary (your help won't be appreciated anyway - the atheists will just accuse you of forcing your religion on them). Funding them is just as meaningful.

In general, you're right, we don't know much about most of the saints. I'm speaking about those who have been Sainted (canonized) by the Catholic Church. Many of them were martyrs (those that would die before renouncing their faith), many lived in poverty, and many were very peaceful.

Obviously there's more than one way to live your life. But being poor doesn't mean you're a jobless bum; simply that you give away anything that you could keep for yourself. I could have a six-figure income and still be poor by choosing to donate all the money I didn't need to charity. Our society is so fixated on money, however, that this is an extremely unlikely circumstance.

I plan on getting a well-paying job simply because I plan on having a very large family and I want the means to support them. I don't donate money whenever I have the chance because I still like to buy things for myself, and I don't expect I will ever be canonized (or beatified for that matter) for it. It is beyond difficult to live by all of Christ's teachings. Those that manage it are our Saints. Those that can't are you and me. We're not wrong; they're just more right.

[General Septem]

In general, you're right, we don't know much about most of the saints. I'm speaking about those who have been Sainted (canonized) by the Catholic Church. Many of them were martyrs (those that would die before renouncing their faith), many lived in poverty, and many were very peaceful.

Obviously there's more than one way to live your life. But being poor doesn't mean you're a jobless bum; simply that you give away anything that you could keep for yourself. I could have a six-figure income and still be poor by choosing to donate all the money I didn't need to charity. Our society is so fixated on money, however, that this is an extremely unlikely circumstance.

I plan on getting a well-paying job simply because I plan on having a very large family and I want the means to support them. I don't donate money whenever I have the chance because I still like to buy things for myself, and I don't expect I will ever be canonized (or beatified for that matter) for it. It is beyond difficult to live by all of Christ's teachings. Those that manage it are our Saints. Those that can't are you and me. We're not wrong; they're just more right.

I'm of the opinion that it is in no way wrong to look out for oneself, as long as you keep others in mind. Those that live in poverty by giving everything they own to charity are admirably going above and beyond. I don't know if you could call that "more right" but that's just semantics.

[Loseirdo]

I'm of the opinion that it is in no way wrong to look out for oneself, as long as you keep others in mind. Those that live in poverty by giving everything they own to charity are admirably going above and beyond. I don't know if you could call that "more right" but that's just semantics.

What I mean is that they're doing more than we are. It's not wrong to look out for yourself, it's simply better to look out for others first. Like I said, you're not wrong to have a good job and nice things. Christ said it was difficult for a rich man to get into heaven, not impossible. The problem that wealth creates is one of idolatry. When you have a lot of money it's very easy to become attached to it. We should always put God, and others, before ourselves.

[General Septem]

LONDON - A Kurdish woman was brutally raped, stamped on and strangled by members of her family and their friends in an "honor killing" carried out at her London home because she had fallen in love with the wrong man.

Banaz Mahmod, 20, was subjected to the 2-1/2 hour ordeal before she was garroted with a bootlace. Her body was stuffed into a suitcase and taken about 100 miles to Birmingham where it was buried in the back garden of a house.

Her badly decomposed body was found in April 2006, three months after the killing.

Last month a jury found her father Mahmod Mahmod, 52, and his brother Ari Mahmod, 51, guilty of murder after a three-month trial. Their associate Mohamad Hama, 30, had earlier admitted killing her.

On Thursday at a pre-sentence hearing for Hama, the Old Bailey heard details about Banaz's last moments.

Prosecutors said the three convicted men, along with two other suspects who are still at large, had carried out the killing fearing that the authorities were closing in on them.

They believed Banaz had brought shame on the family by leaving her husband, an Iraqi Kurd she had been forced to marry at 17, and falling in love with Rahmat Suleimani, an Iranian Kurd.

Her former unnamed partner had raped her as well as repeatedly beating her, the court heard.

Hama, who prosecutors said had been a ringleader in the murder, was caught by listening devices talking to a friend in prison about the murder.