our justice system at work!

[hitekredneck]

it's a wonder most cops don't just fuckin quit...this disgusts me to no end! :mad:
http://www.local6.com/news/13455912/detail.html

[MrJim]

That is rediculous, obviously democracy doesn't work no matter how it measures against other juridicial systems.

[hitekredneck]

That is rediculous, obviously democracy doesn't work no matter how it measures against other juridicial systems.

the thing is, jim...it ain't our democracy (a misnomer, at any rate) that's failin here, it's our justice system...when these fucking judges can just release these asswipes back into society without paying their dues for their crimes, we're gonna fail :(

[General Septem]

They could just end the war on drugs and eliminate drug-related crime altogether. :/

[WhiteRaven]

The war on drugs is a lost cause, and calling it a war is ridiculous. Can drugs fight back, use weapons? No? Then it is not a war, Mr. George W. Bush.

[hitekredneck]

i think you guys are missing the point here...it really don't matter how you feel about current drug laws, the man in question was TAPED breaking the law, not only attempting to sell drugs to the cops, but trying to rip them off...i don't give a shit who you are, if you're going to break the law, you take that chance of getting caught, and if you do, you should pay the penalty...

[General Septem]

i think you guys are missing the point here...it really don't matter how you feel about current drug laws, the man in question was TAPED breaking the law, not only attempting to sell drugs to the cops, but trying to rip them off...i don't give a shit who you are, if you're going to break the law, you take that chance of getting caught, and if you do, you should pay the penalty...

Well, it doesn't say much for the justice system if they tape a guy breaking the law, but still nobody should be made to pay a penalty for not conforming to the black suits' idea of what people should and shouldn't do.

[hitekredneck]

Well, it doesn't say much for the justice system if they tape a guy breaking the law, but still nobody should be made to pay a penalty for not conforming to the black suits' idea of what people should and shouldn't do.

disagree with ya here, gen...without laws, we fall into anarchy...in anarchy, we'll be destroyed as a nation....our country is built on the word of law, and all should respect the freedom those laws bring us...if we disagree with the laws, we need to work from within the system to change em...somehting else you seem to have missed, that guy assaulted the cop before they even mentioned police...the judge should be disbarred :mad:

[General Septem]

disagree with ya here, gen...without laws, we fall into anarchy...in anarchy, we'll be destroyed as a nation....our country is built on the word of law, and all should respect the freedom those laws bring us...if we disagree with the laws, we need to work from within the system to change em...somehting else you seem to have missed, that guy assaulted the cop before they even mentioned police...the judge should be disbarred :mad:

The cop was undercover, the guy can't be charged for assaulting an officer if he didn't even know it was an officer. That sounds too much like the whole "secret police" thing.

Anarchy is freedom. Laws by definition restrict our freedom.

Who is to say whose laws I should abide by then? Whoever controls the biggest army?

[hitekredneck]

The cop was undercover, the guy can't be charged for assaulting an officer if he didn't even know it was an officer. That sounds too much like the whole "secret police" thing.

Anarchy is freedom. Laws by definition restrict our freedom.

Who is to say whose laws I should abide by then? Whoever controls the biggest army?

the cop WAS undercover, true...the asswipe in question still assaulted the cop...whether he should be charged with assaulting a cop don't really matter...it shouldn't carry any higher a penalty than assaulting anybody else...anarchy is chaos, which translates to freedom only for those strong enough to sieze it...laws by definition don't restrict our freedom, they make it possible for society to survive in large groups...as i stated before, if you don't like the current laws on the books, then vote for a rep that will work to change those laws...

[WhiteRaven]

"Who is to say whose laws I should abide by then? Whoever controls the biggest army?"

pretty much, actually. At least, whoever is in control is usually the one making the laws. The one who can enforce them.

"anarchy is chaos, which translates to freedom only for those strong enough to sieze it..."

which is not really different from the way things are now. Humans sieze power, that is what we do. Humans fight for power, live for power, die for power. If we were in a state of anarchy, someone would eventually take power, take freedom.

[hitekredneck]

"Who is to say whose laws I should abide by then? Whoever controls the biggest army?"

pretty much, actually. At least, whoever is in control is usually the one making the laws. The one who can enforce them.

"anarchy is chaos, which translates to freedom only for those strong enough to sieze it..."

which is not really different from the way things are now. Humans sieze power, that is what we do. Humans fight for power, live for power, die for power. If we were in a state of anarchy, someone would eventually take power, take freedom.

true...a political system is, after all, nothing more than a compromise between anarchy and fascism...but my point is that we need rules and laws to function successfully as a society...as for who decides those laws, it ultimately ends in the hands of the citizens, regardless of the political situation....even in a fascist system, such as communism, if the bulk of the citizenry disagree with said law, the possibility of revolution ensures that ways to change laws exist...if only by force of arms..

[General Septem]

anarchy is chaos, which translates to freedom only for those strong enough to sieze it...

Anarchy isn't chaotic, people are chaotic. Anarchy is merely the freedom to be chaotic. In any event, I'd rather live in chaos than conform to anyone's idea of order. Every able-bodied man should be strong anyway.

[hitekredneck]

Anarchy isn't chaotic, people are chaotic. Anarchy is merely the freedom to be chaotic. In any event, I'd rather live in chaos than conform to anyone's idea of order. Every able-bodied man should be strong anyway.

while i agree that each and every man should be strong, i disagree wholly with anarchy...that gives you the right to oppress and manipulate...not that we don't already have it...to live in a truly anacharnistic manner, you would have to excude others...anarchy is the exact opposite of law and order...to survive in life, you have to obey physical laws....moral laws should be and are implemented by the majority of that society in some way, shape and form....but as i mentioned earlier...each and every society is basically a compromise between anarchy and fascism....

[WhiteRaven]

"that gives you the right to oppress and manipulate..."

Oppression and manipulation are facts of life. Every act will manipulate new acts, it is an endless cycle, Such things occur every second, it simply depends on who is perceiving them

"to survive in life, you have to obey physical laws....moral laws should be and are implemented by the majority of that society in some way, shape and form...."

but physical laws are completely different from moral laws, when I try to steal something an invisible forcefield doesn't prevent my hand from grabbing it. I don't get your point here.

[hitekredneck]

"that gives you the right to oppress and manipulate..."

Oppression and manipulation are facts of life. Every act will manipulate new acts, it is an endless cycle, Such things occur every second, it simply depends on who is perceiving them

"to survive in life, you have to obey physical laws....moral laws should be and are implemented by the majority of that society in some way, shape and form...."

but physical laws are completely different from moral laws, when I try to steal something an invisible forcefield doesn't prevent my hand from grabbing it. I don't get your point here.

my point with physical laws is that speaking from a logical conclusion, laws make up much of what happens in life...for the most part, moral laws are simple common sense...don't lie, cheat, steal, murder, etc...without those laws in place, society falls into certain chaos

[WhiteRaven]

chaos is not always negative.

[General Septem]

I don't believe stealing is necessarily inherently bad anyway. Take a casino for example. All they do is rip people off. The House is the only winner. So my philosophy is, if someone is clever enough to be able to break into a casino's security, they earned that money. The casino sure as hell doesn't deserve or need it anyway.

Plus, sometimes stealing is the only way someone can survive. I'd be pissed if it happened to me, but if the only way I could eat was to either dig through garbage or ravish someone's house, you know where I'm going.

If you can't protect it, you don't deserve it.

[hitekredneck]

I don't believe stealing is necessarily inherently bad anyway. Take a casino for example. All they do is rip people off. The House is the only winner. So my philosophy is, if someone is clever enough to be able to break into a casino's security, they earned that money. The casino sure as hell doesn't deserve or need it anyway.

Plus, sometimes stealing is the only way someone can survive. I'd be pissed if it happened to me, but if the only way I could eat was to either dig through garbage or ravish someone's house, you know where I'm going.

If you can't protect it, you don't deserve it.

this is where we will always disagree...regardless of what the circumstances, you do not have the right to steal from others what was justly earned...in the circunstances you provide, i would neither root through the trash nor steal from an individual....i would hunt....even in the city, there are ways and food to hunt...yeah, i'ld eat dog...rat....cat...whatever it took...ate a helluva lot nastier stuff in my survival schools...
saying that a casino rips people off is asinine...a casino doesn't need to do anything to rip people off, and anybody that doesn't understand that gambling ALWAYS is in the favor of the house, don't need to be there...if you want to keep your money, don't gamble...and no, the house isn't always the only winner...that's why they call it gambling...no different than playing the stock market, really

[hitekredneck]

chaos is not always negative.

depends on the situation...order isn't always good...in my context, it's neither...i was just making the point that regardless of intent, lawas are necessary to have societies

[General Septem]

this is where we will always disagree...regardless of what the circumstances, you do not have the right to steal from others what was justly earned...in the circunstances you provide, i would neither root through the trash nor steal from an individual....i would hunt....even in the city, there are ways and food to hunt...yeah, i'ld eat dog...rat....cat...whatever it took...ate a helluva lot nastier stuff in my survival schools...

That takes care of food, then. Now I'm not saying robbing houses is ever a good thing, but sometimes survival depends on taking what you need to survive. Given the choice I'd take what I needed from a store rather than a house. After all, they're insured, why should they care?


saying that a casino rips people off is asinine...a casino doesn't need to do anything to rip people off, and anybody that doesn't understand that gambling ALWAYS is in the favor of the house, don't need to be there...if you want to keep your money, don't gamble...and no, the house isn't always the only winner...that's why they call it gambling...no different than playing the stock market, really

The stock market can be played intelligently. Even games like poker can be played intelligently. But slot machines? So you're right, anyone who doesn't understand that the house has the advantage shouldn't be there. If the casino can prove their superiority by deceiving and tricking people into gambling their life away, so be it, the people should have known better. So much in the same way, if someone can prove their superiority over the casino by bypassing their security, they win that round and they get to walk away with the money. It's only fair how I see it.

[WhiteRaven]

"I don't believe stealing is necessarily inherently bad anyway. Take a casino for example. All they do is rip people off. The House is the only winner. So my philosophy is, if someone is clever enough to be able to break into a casino's security, they earned that money. The casino sure as hell doesn't deserve or need it anyway."

I agree, but I'm wondering, when exactly did you become such a social darwinist?

"If you can't protect it, you don't deserve it."

truth.

[General Septem]

I agree, but I'm wondering, when exactly did you become such a social darwinist?

When? I don't know exactly actually, but I only came to realize just recently that it was called that.

[hitekredneck]

That takes care of food, then. Now I'm not saying robbing houses is ever a good thing, but sometimes survival depends on taking what you need to survive. Given the choice I'd take what I needed from a store rather than a house. After all, they're insured, why should they care?



The stock market can be played intelligently. Even games like poker can be played intelligently. But slot machines? So you're right, anyone who doesn't understand that the house has the advantage shouldn't be there. If the casino can prove their superiority by deceiving and tricking people into gambling their life away, so be it, the people should have known better. So much in the same way, if someone can prove their superiority over the casino by bypassing their security, they win that round and they get to walk away with the money. It's only fair how I see it.

but see, casino's don't need to do much of anything...the draw is the chance of getting something for nothing...unfortunately, there's many people that seem to think they deserve to win, and somehow become positive that they WILL win...and the funny thing is, the casino's don't have to do a thing about it....
now as for your statement that if you're not strong enough to hold it...look...if i have a neighbor....works his ass off to get what he has...but is physically weak, maybe unsure in his confidence to stand up for himself...tho i won't respect him for being weak, i do respect him for working for what he wants, and if needed, will stand beside him to help defend him....what you've been telling me is that it's right for the strong and strong willed to roll over the weak and take what they want...it isn't right in any shape or form, gen...i dare anybody, including the american government to take what i've worked my whole life for...
you will never convince me that it's right to steal...necessary in certain times?...maybe....right?...never

[General Septem]

now as for your statement that if you're not strong enough to hold it...look...if i have a neighbor....works his ass off to get what he has...but is physically weak, maybe unsure in his confidence to stand up for himself...tho i won't respect him for being weak, i do respect him for working for what he wants, and if needed, will stand beside him to help defend him....what you've been telling me is that it's right for the strong and strong willed to roll over the weak and take what they want...it isn't right in any shape or form, gen...i dare anybody, including the american government to take what i've worked my whole life for...
you will never convince me that it's right to steal...necessary in certain times?...maybe....right?...never

Does this neighbor have an excuse for being weak?

[hitekredneck]

Does this neighbor have an excuse for being weak?

possibly just a genetic condition...it runs through many people...i feel it's a responsibility to help our weaker neighbors, when possible...
btw, that would make it a reason, not an excuse... :p

[General Septem]

possibly just a genetic condition...it runs through many people...i feel it's a responsibility to help our weaker neighbors, when possible...
btw, that would make it a reason, not an excuse... :p

That would make it a reason, but if the reason is because he doesn't take care of himself or doesn't know how to be confident, it wouldn't be an excuse. :p

[hitekredneck]

That would make it a reason, but if the reason is because he doesn't take care of himself or doesn't know how to be confident, it wouldn't be an excuse. :p

not necessarily...i know a few people that don't know how to be strong-willed...it's more of a personality defect than anything else...it kinda falls into the same category as those women that stay with men that beat em...confuses the hell outa me, but i'm just a redneck trucker :D

[General Septem]

not necessarily...i know a few people that don't know how to be strong-willed...it's more of a personality defect than anything else...it kinda falls into the same category as those women that stay with men that beat em...confuses the hell outa me, but i'm just a redneck trucker :D

I used to be that way though. It's a failure of society when men are allowed to not be strong, because it's a society of weak people that depends on the government. I would revel in anarchy because I know how to take care of myself and my family.

[hitekredneck]

I used to be that way though. It's a failure of society when men are allowed to not be strong, because it's a society of weak people that depends on the government. I would revel in anarchy because I know how to take care of myself and my family.

believe me...you only think you would revel in anarchy...right up until somebody stronger than you took what you most rever...the lives and/or freedom of you and your close ones

[General Septem]

believe me...you only think you would revel in anarchy...right up until somebody stronger than you took what you most rever...the lives and/or freedom of you and your close ones

When in history has anarchy ever led to fascism?

[something]

When in history has anarchy ever led to fascism?

Germany 1930's for example. It was very divided by the time, and the Nazis promises about a thousand year german empire, well...

[General Septem]

Germany 1930's for example. It was very divided by the time, and the Nazis promises about a thousand year german empire, well...

When was Germany ever in a period of anarchy? There may have been chaos and social unrest but that does not constitute anarchy.

[something]

When was Germany ever in a period of anarchy? There may have been chaos and social unrest but that does not constitute anarchy.

It was close to an anarchy. Has there ever been a real anarchy then?

[hitekredneck]

It was close to an anarchy. Has there ever been a real anarchy then?

i don't really believe a true anarchy could ever exist any more than a true fascist state...there's too many people in the middle that would eventually stand against perceived wrongs....in an anarchy, individuals are free to make any decision they choose....many people would still choose laws to obey....others would choose to call that fascism...for some, there is no middle of the road....