The Emperor has no clothes.

[agent lance]

"The Emperor has no clothes."

That line, is the oldest way
(that I know of)
to
CALL BULLSHIT !

I'm talking about...
The Bush administration.

I'm old enough to remember Reagan...
and the "Iran-Contra Scandal"...

Many of the same Players are still involved
in the current U.S. government.

...Cheney, Wolfowitz, Perle, ... et al...
(Project for a New American Century
[Rebuilding America's Defences])
Then, of course, there's Karl Rove ( "The Architect" )...

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!

Of course,
I'm probally just "preaching to the choir" here...

So,
tell your friends, your neighbors, your co-workers...

CALL BULLSHIT !!!

[Korono]

Hahaha. That's cute, you thinking this is going to do anything. Firstly, if you're "preaching to the choir," chances are that the choir is already preaching to others. Secondly, you're really not. This is a fairly diverse group here. Thirdly, bitching and talking isn't going to do anything. Become involved in the government, that's how you solve problems.

[agent lance]

to Korono:
You assume that the intention of my post was "to do anything".
The intention of my post was actually
just to share my thoughts with others.

You make 2 obvious points:
1. "...chances are that the choir is already preaching to others."
2. "Become involved in the government, that's how you solve problems."
But thank you for pointing out that "This is a fairly diverse group here."

To be fair to you, I know the last part of my post sounds like a rallying cry.
Thus, I understand why you would think
that I was trying to achieve anything.

You are quite correct to say, "Become involved in the government,
that's how you solve problems."
However, that is not the only thing one can do to affect change.
Bitching and talking have their place (I call it "social networking"),
but that's only a starting point.
If that's all one does,
then change will (probably) not happen.
Conversely, if one only votes, and, phones, and writes their representative,
(without any "social networking");
then your impact will be minimal.
I say, "Do it all."

"Social networking" can include, but is not limited to:
joining, participating in, and contributing to groups.

Sorry for belaboring an obvious point.
Sorry for the hokey civics lesson.
I just don't want people to think that I'm one of those people
who just bitches and complains, as you seem to imply. :)

[Infowarrior]

I accidently found this site playing with domain names. I read this post first and registered immediately.

There is a growing movement among politicians and top professors in the US to call for an independent group that will be truthful about events that took place on 9 11. The last couple of years have brought much change to my stance on politics. I am neither left nor right. I am not a democrat or liberal. I am an American for Americans.
With that said, I ask the 2 of you one question. Have either of you looked at the official version (911 Commission) of what happened that day vs. what are absolutely true verifiable facts that totally go against what the government says happened? You may be surprised. I suggest visiting one of these sights. The first is maybe the most credible with the site host being a top level member of Reagan and Bush administrations.

Thememoryhole.com

http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/index.html

http://bulldogpolitics.blogspot.com/2005/07/911-and-five-major-coincidences.html (Be sure to watch the free 22 minute video here. EXCELLENT but SAD SAD)

http://emperors-clothes.com/indict/911page.htm

Sorry for the length of this first post.....I could not pass it. Here is the article of the top professors.
Experts Claim Official 9/11 Story is a Hoax
Scholars for 9/11 Truth call for verification and publication by an international consortium.

Duluth, MN (PRWEB) January 30, 2006 -- A group of distinguished experts and scholars, including Robert M. Bowman, James H. Fetzer, Wayne Madsen, John McMurtry, Morgan Reynolds, and Andreas von Buelow, have concluded that senior government officials have covered up crucial facts about what really happened on 9/11.

They have joined with others in common cause as members of "Scholars for 9/11 Truth" (S9/11T), because they are convinced, based on their own research, that the administration has been deceiving the nation about critical events in New York and Washington, D.C.

These experts suggest these events may have been orchestrated by elements within the administration to manipulate Americans into supporting policies at home and abroad they would never have condoned absent "another Pearl Harbor."

They believe that this White House is incapable of investigating itself and hope the possibility that Congress might hold an unaccountable administration accountable is not merely naive or wishful thinking.

They are encouraging news services around the world to secure scientific advice by taking advantage of university resources to verify or to falsify their discoveries. Extraordinary situations, they believe, require extraordinary measures.

If this were done, they contend, one of the great hoaxes of history would stand naked before the eyes of the world and its perpetrators would be clearly exposed, which may be the only hope for saving this nation from ever greater abuse.

They hope this might include The New York Times, which, in their opinion, has repeatedly failed to exercise the leadership expecedt from our nation's newspaper of record by a series of inexplicable lapses. It has failed to vigorously investigate tainted elections, lies leading to the war in Iraq, or illegal NSA spying on the American people, major unconstitutional events. In their view, The Times might compensate for its loss of stature by helping to reveal the truth about one of the great turning-point events of modern history.

Stunning as it may be to acknowledge, they observe, the government has brought but one indictment against anyone and, to the best of their knowledge, has not even reprimanded anyone for incompetence or dereliction of duty. The official conspiracy theory--that nineteen Arab hijackers under control of one man in the wilds of Afghanistan brought this about--is unsupportable by the evidential data, which they have studied. They even believe there are good reasons for suspecting that video tapes officially attributed to Osama bin Laden are not genuine.

They have found the government's own investigiation to be severely flawed. The 9/11 Commission, designated to investigate the attack, was directed by Philip Zelikow, part of the Bush transition team in the NSA sector and the co-author of a book with Condoleezza Rice. A Bush supporter and director of national security affairs, he could hardly be expected to conduct an objective and impartial investigation.

They have discovered that The 9/11 Commission Report is replete with omissions, distortions, and factual errors, which David Ray Griffin has documented in his book, The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions. The official report, for example, entirely ignores the collapse of WTC7, a 47-story building, which was hit by no airplanes, was only damaged by a few small fires, and fell seven hours after the attack.

Here are some of the kinds of considerations that these experts and scholar find profoundly troubling:

* In the history of structural engineering, steel-frame high-rise buildings have never been brought down due to fires either before or since 9/11, so how can fires have brought down three in one day? How is this possible?

* The BBC has reported that at least five of the nineteen alleged "hijackers" have turned up alive and well living in Saudi Arabia, yet according to the FBI, they were among those killed in the attacks. How is this possible?

* Frank DeMartini, a project manager for the WTC, said the buildings were designed with load redistribution capabilities to withstand the impact of airliners, whose effects would be like "puncturing mosquito netting with a pencil." Yet they completely collapsed. How is this possible?

* Since the melting point of steel is about 2,700*F, the temperature of jet fuel fires does not exceed 1,800*F under optimal conditions, and UL certified the steel used to 2,000*F for six hours, the buildings cannot have collapsed due to heat from the fires. How is this possible?

* Flight 77, which allegedly hit the building, left the radar screen in the vicinity of the Ohio/Kentucky border, only to "reappear" in very close proximity to the Pentagon shortly before impact. How is this possible?

* Foreign "terrorists" who were clever enough to coordinate hijacking four commercial airliners seemingly did not know that the least damage to the Pentagon would be done by hitting its west wing. How is this possible?

* Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta, in an underground bunker at the White House, watched Vice President Cheney castigate a young officer for asking, as the plane drew closer and closer to the Pentagon, "Do the orders still stand?" The order cannot have been to shoot it down, but must have been the opposite. How is this possible?

* A former Inspector General for the Air Force has observed that Flight 93, which allegedly crashed in Pennsylvania, should have left debris scattered over an area less than the size of a city block; but it is scattered over an area of about eight square miles. How is this possible?

* A tape recording of interviews with air traffic controllers on duty on 9/11 was deliberately crushed, cut into very small pieces, and distributed in assorted places to insure its total destruction. How is this possible?

* The Pentagon conducted a training exercise called "MASCAL" simulating the crash of a Boeing 757 into the building on 24 October 2000, and yet Condoleezza Rice, among others, has repeatedly asserted that "no one ever imagined" a domestic airplane could be used as a weapon. How is this possible?

Their own physics research has established that only controlled demolitions are consistent with the near-gravity speed of fall and virtually symmetrical collapse of all three of the WTC buildings. While turning concrete into very fine dust, they fell straight-down into their own footprints.

These experts and scholars have found themselves obliged to conclude that the 9/11 atrocity represents an instance of the approach--which has been identified by Karl Rove, the President's closest adviser--of "creating our own reality."

http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2006/1/emw339303.htm

I will stop there. If you are interested, you will be able to find the rest of the sites. They are endless. This is a sad thing to try and deal with due to the fact that it is uncomfortable to say the least. Those of us that believe horrible crimes were committed by our own government on 911 live a really horrible existence. Americans dont want to think that this type of act is possible. Yet there are documents that have been realeased by our own government from the 60's saying they were going to do exactly that, hurt their own citizens. (Northwoods Document)

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Wow, that was a lot. I've never cared to look much into the 9-11 incident, and never imagined that the US Government would do something so horrid to its own country. If this truly was an act of the US then how could they possibly have silenced all the whistle blowers? There had to be so many people involved in putting together such a plot that it is gastly unlikely that someone hadn't let his consience get the best of him and find a way to inform the public ahead of time.

Also, what purpose would it serve the country to stage this attack? I'm sure that there would be much less support for the war (especially since there appears to be so little now), but what is the country gaining from this war in the first place? It appears to be nothing more than a vendetta that the government leaders want to settle, while pointing out that it will help to prevent such heartless attacks in the future. Hardly a reason for a war in the first place though......a more concientous move would be to improve national DEFENSE and foreign relations.

[agent lance]

Thanks for the links. I will check them out.

Here's a lame analogy of my attitude toward conspiracy theories:

The sea is very large and deep.
I am like a seabird, who dives just below the surface, to catch fish.
If the fish I'm after tries to evade, and I think it's worthwhile,
I will persue it deeper.
If the fish I catch doesn't taste good, I will spit it out.
I can see that there are more, tastey fish deeper down,
but I cannot swim that far.
I wish I was a dolphin.

The sea of conspiracy theories is vast, and deep.
Some are true, some are not, some we will never know.

That being said, here are a couple good fishing grounds:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNAC

PNAC stands for Project for a New American Century.
No need for speculation here. The NeoCons spell out their intentions in black and white.

And a link inside this article (link name: conspiracy theories)
mentions conspriracy theories that turned out to be true,
including Operation Northwoods.
(Scroll down to the heading: Real conspiracies , in the Contents: it's 4.2.1)

Besides all the background info on PNAC, here's the tastey bit:
(from my original link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNAC)
(in the Contents: it's 2 , under the heading: Controversy)

The full quote is as follows:
"Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one,
absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor."
Some opponents of the Bush administration have used this quote as evidence for their belief
the US government was complicit in the 9/11 terrorist attacks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11%2C_2001_attacks).
See the article 9/11 conspiracy theories (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories) for further information on this topic.
Many critics also claim the PNAC believed this "new Pearl Harbor" would justify war on Iraq (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq).


My own personal conspiracy theory is based on the video
(which was shown in the movie: Fahrenheit 9/11)
of Bush reading to school children, even after he was informed of the attacks.
I think he had forknowledge of the attacks,
but he was kept out-of-the-loop,
and didn't know the details (ahead of time).
Therefore, when they whispered in his ear, about the massive devastation,
he choked, and froze with inaction.
The only action he could think of to take, was to keep reading "My Pet Goat".
(The preceding is only my own speculation.)

Happy fishing !

[agent lance]

(edited)
...never imagined that the US Government would do something so horrid to its own country.
...
Also, what purpose would it serve the country to stage this attack?
I'm sure that there would be much less support for the war
(especially since there appears to be so little now), but
what is the country gaining from this war in the first place?
...it will help to prevent such heartless attacks in the future.
Hardly a reason for a war in the first place though......
a more concientous move would be to improve national DEFENSE and foreign relations.


...never imagined that the US Government would do something so horrid to its own country.
Why not? The U.S. government's own documents admit to doing so in the past.
conspiracy theories (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory) from Wikipedia:
"
Some argue that the reality of such conspiracies should caution against any casual dismissal of conspiracy theory. A number of true or possibly true conspiracies are cited in making this case; the Mafia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafia), the Business Plot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot), MKULTRA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA), various CIA involvements in overseas coups d'état (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup_d%27%C3%A9tat), Operation Northwoods (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods), the Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Negro Male (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study), the General Motors streetcar conspiracy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy) and the Pearl Harbor advance-knowledge debate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_advance-knowledge_debate), among others.
"


what purpose would it serve the country to stage this attack?
I'm sure that there would be much less support for the war
(especially since there appears to be so little now), but
what is the country gaining from this war in the first place?
Once you realize that the current "leaders" of this country don't care about this country;
they only care about their own interests;
then their actions are easily understood (aside from any conspiracy).
But, if you're interested, here's how the conspiracy explains it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNAC from Wikipedia:
"
The full quote is as follows: "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one,
absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor."
Some opponents of the Bush administration have used this quote as evidence for their belief the US government was complicit in the 9/11 terrorist attacks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11%2C_2001_attacks). See the article 9/11 conspiracy theories (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories) for further information on this topic. Many critics also claim the PNAC believed this "new Pearl Harbor" would justify war on Iraq (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq).
"


...a more concientous move would be to improve national DEFENSE and foreign relations.
I agree.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Once you realize that the current "leaders" of this country don't care about this country;
they only care about their own interests;
then their actions are easily understood (aside from any conspiracy).

It sickens me to think of this possibility. That the people that we hold most high in our country are keen to simply go out and start killing a bunch of people they never knew just to make an extra buck. Sure, there are plenty of people in the world and in our country like this; but our top leaders? That idea just makes me wretch.

[agent lance]

0123456789

[Paisleyspeaker]

Brains,
It is sickining, but stop and think about it. the Patriot Act, the war in Iraq, the suprising lack of agrument whilst the neo-cons strip our civil libirites. It is depressing but watch Farienhiet 9-11 and check out Alex Jones Infowars website. they will explain more.