simple economics

[hitekredneck]

i'm not an economist by any definition of the word...but i do understand a bit about simple economics, being a small business owner...everybody seems to think raising the minimum wage is the answer to poverty...it isn't...in fact, it tends to make things harder....when you force a company to pay more in wages, all they do is pass the increase along to the customer, causing hikes in prices...now think about this...you're all excited because yer burger flippin job just gave you a raise to, say, $9 an hour...yippee...so ya decide to go eat at the same place you work because of yer employee discount you get as a side-benefit...you're shocked to find the cost of your favorite worm-burger and fries has gone up 2.50 per meal...and it doesn't end there...because the more expensive it is for other business' the more they're gonna raise THEIR prices as well...i have no sympathy for anybody in a low-wage job, because if they can't handle life on that level, then they should have plenty of inducement to either get more education, better job skills, or find a niche and start their own business...make sense?

[England Expects]

i'm not an economist by any definition of the word...but i do understand a bit about simple economics, being a small business owner...everybody seems to think raising the minimum wage is the answer to poverty...it isn't...in fact, it tends to make things harder....when you force a company to pay more in wages, all they do is pass the increase along to the customer, causing hikes in prices...now think about this...you're all excited because yer burger flippin job just gave you a raise to, say, $9 an hour...yippee...so ya decide to go eat at the same place you work because of yer employee discount you get as a side-benefit...you're shocked to find the cost of your favorite worm-burger and fries has gone up 2.50 per meal...and it doesn't end there...because the more expensive it is for other business' the more they're gonna raise THEIR prices as well...i have no sympathy for anybody in a low-wage job, because if they can't handle life on that level, then they should have plenty of inducement to either get more education, better job skills, or find a niche and start their own business...make sense?

Its very easy for someone who has his own business to say that the poor are so through their own fault. Its not always the case.

There are commercial pressures on burger companies not to up their prices. I have no sympathy for exploitative employers. If they cant handle business on a level where they have to pay a living wage to their employees, yet remain competitive price wise then they have plenty of inducement to get jobs flipping burgers themselves.

We didn't have minimum wage here until a few years ago. The conservative party were bleating that it would cost millions of jobs and make the UK uncompetitive. This hasn't been the case. We have more people in work than ever.

If you pay a minimum wage, there's more of an incentive for the sick, lame and lazy to get off their backsides and off of welfare.

[hitekredneck]

Its very easy for someone who has his own business to say that the poor are so through their own fault. Its not always the case.

There are commercial pressures on burger companies not to up their prices. I have no sympathy for exploitative employers. If they cant handle business on a level where they have to pay a living wage to their employees, yet remain competitive price wise then they have plenty of inducement to get jobs flipping burgers themselves.

We didn't have minimum wage here until a few years ago. The conservative party were bleating that it would cost millions of jobs and make the UK uncompetitive. This hasn't been the case. We have more people in work than ever.

If you pay a minimum wage, there's more of an incentive for the sick, lame and lazy to get off their backsides and off of welfare.

don't get me wrong, england ol buddy...i never said it's their own fault they're poor...it IS, however, their own fault if they stay that way...just because i run my own business at this time doesn't mean shit...i've had as rough a childhood (rougher than most, i'll wager) as anybody out here in the u.s....also note that i never said it would cost jobs, tho it can and has driven other service type small business' under....it WILL add to inflation, because people are gonna raise prices to keep their profits....i'll let ya in on something, england...my profit margin is rather small right now due to outrageous (i know, not to you) fuel prices, and i have raised my rates...not at the rate fuel's gone up, but not far behind, either...this is so i can make a living and try to grow my company at the same time...
as for incentive to get the lazy fucks off the welfare line, that's simple...if you're able to work, you don't need welfare:cool:

btw, you are correct on one thing....yeah, you'll get more jobs...but then they're ALL at minimum wage instead of a practicing fair wage

[Loseirdo]

don't get me wrong, england ol buddy...i never said it's their own fault they're poor...it IS, however, their own fault if they stay that way...just because i run my own business at this time doesn't mean shit...i've had as rough a childhood (rougher than most, i'll wager) as anybody out here in the u.s....also note that i never said it would cost jobs, tho it can and has driven other service type small business' under....it WILL add to inflation, because people are gonna raise prices to keep their profits....i'll let ya in on something, england...my profit margin is rather small right now due to outrageous (i know, not to you) fuel prices, and i have raised my rates...not at the rate fuel's gone up, but not far behind, either...this is so i can make a living and try to grow my company at the same time...
as for incentive to get the lazy fucks off the welfare line, that's simple...if you're able to work, you don't need welfare:cool:

btw, you are correct on one thing....yeah, you'll get more jobs...but then they're ALL at minimum wage instead of a practicing fair wage

But that's good, right? Sure, everybody's working for the same rate, but at least everybody's working. Or...better yet, we could cut their earnings further and offer all sorts of free government programs. Wait, wait...how about all the people work for free, but the government supplies adequate food and housing for each family? It would be a utopia.

Or communism. You know, whatever.

[England Expects]

If the best argument you've got against a minimum wage is that it causes inflation to rise, maybe you'd agree with me that an equal contribution is made by fatcat company bosses paying themselves 6 figure bonus's?

But that's okay, because they "earned" it didn't they. By thinking of clever ways to get the poor working for less than a living wage.

[Loseirdo]

If the best argument you've got against a minimum wage is that it causes inflation to rise, maybe you'd agree with me that an equal contribution is made by fatcat company bosses paying themselves 6 figure bonus's?

But that's okay, because they "earned" it didn't they. By thinking of clever ways to get the poor working for less than a living wage.

The way I see it, CEOs should only receive what is left after every employee is paid a fair wage. Sometimes minimum wage is a fair wage, but I don't think raising it will help anything. Instead, we should require that CEOs can't make more than a certain percentage above what the least-paid employee of their company makes. I believe Japan has a system like that. I think it could work.

[England Expects]

I agree entirely.

I've no idea how high your minimum is set so it'd be unfair to comment whether it should be raised or not, but it should be high enough to pay for a reasonable standard of living; nothing fancy, but so you can house, clothe and feed yourself.

Ours here is set at £5.35 per hour, so with the exchange rate as it is, that's about $11.00

[Loseirdo]

I agree entirely.

I've no idea how high your minimum is set so it'd be unfair to comment whether it should be raised or not, but it should be high enough to pay for a reasonable standard of living; nothing fancy, but so you can house, clothe and feed yourself.

Ours here is set at £5.35 per hour, so with the exchange rate as it is, that's about $11.00

Setting it that high over here would cause nothing but problems. The cost of living would rise just as much which would keep things relatively the same for them and much worse for the rest of us. Not to mention the illegal immigrant issue that MrJim brought up in another thread.

I just wish politicians would look to alternative methods, such as the one I described, instead of bickering on and on about minimum wage.

[MrJim]

http://www.star-telegram.com/news/story/177893.html (http://www.star-telegram.com/news/story/177893.html)

Before you start celebrating, consider this: $9.50 AN HOUR?? FOR BURGER FLIPPING?? C'mon, do you think a fast food restaurant could possibly afford to pay employees this? I know the actual increase is only above $7, far below what Osama... er... Obama proposes, but still, what's going to happen is they will lay off all the teenagers with "blah blah blah market conditions blah blah", then come along and hire illegal immigrants to take their place for $3.00 an hour. At the old $5.15 rate, it was worth it to them to keep people who spoke English in order to keep customers pleased, but at $9.50 or even $7.25 this incentive will vanish. Get ready to say "I'd like an ultimate cheeseburger with onion rings" and get "Que?" in return.

Yep. That's really about all I have to say about this issue.

And... I was expressing sympathy for teenagers that are trying to do something right by getting summer jobs, along with poor college kids trying to pay their way through college while they are unable to work full-time... the folks that are stuck working at McDonald's forever are lying in the bed they have made for themselves and deserve no further incentive such as this one to keep it up.

[hitekredneck]

But that's good, right? Sure, everybody's working for the same rate, but at least everybody's working. Or...better yet, we could cut their earnings further and offer all sorts of free government programs. Wait, wait...how about all the people work for free, but the government supplies adequate food and housing for each family? It would be a utopia.

Or communism. You know, whatever.

haven't you realized that a liberal is just another form of socialist?

[England Expects]

haven't you realized that a liberal is just another form of socialist?

Is that really the best you can do hitek?

Liberalism and socialism are not the same thing.

[hitekredneck]

Is that really the best you can do hitek?

Liberalism and socialism are not the same thing.

yes they are...liberalism is all about having everybody take care of everybody else...same with socialism...the reason i dislike both is that it takes personal responsibility out of the equation....liberalism is redistribution of wealth, same as socialism...
i don't mind helping out my fellow man, but it should not be forced by any means, and my fellow man should be willing to work for that help....anything you get in life should be earned, as nothing in life is free....

[General Septem]

What the poor and just about everyone else needs to realize is that if you aren't happy with your life, you have the power to change it, and in fact you're the only one who can, or at least the only one you can trust.

This is always true. Whether it's poverty, or someone in your life who's giving you shit, or whatever - you have the ability to stop bitching and do something about it. Even if you're in prison, there are things you can do, though not nearly as much.

People need to stop bitching about how everyone else is treating them. It only makes us hate them more.

[hitekredneck]

What the poor and just about everyone else needs to realize is that if you aren't happy with your life, you have the power to change it, and in fact you're the only one who can, or at least the only one you can trust.

This is always true. Whether it's poverty, or someone in your life who's giving you shit, or whatever - you have the ability to stop bitching and do something about it. Even if you're in prison, there are things you can do, though not nearly as much.

People need to stop bitching about how everyone else is treating them. It only makes us hate them more.

it ain't so much the bitchin about how people treat em, it's more the whining about what they deserve and not wanting to work for it...and i do think that it's not entirely their fault, as we've allowed our government to freely hand out food, money and services in return for absolutely nothing, no work, no effort, nothing...personally, i feel if you can work, then you better, or you can starve...for people that have physical and mental problems and can prove it, then i don't mind helping out, but even they can contribute something to society...in fact, those are usually the people that try the hardest to get out of their situation

[Loseirdo]

it ain't so much the bitchin about how people treat em, it's more the whining about what they deserve and not wanting to work for it...and i do think that it's not entirely their fault, as we've allowed our government to freely hand out food, money and services in return for absolutely nothing, no work, no effort, nothing...personally, i feel if you can work, then you better, or you can starve...for people that have physical and mental problems and can prove it, then i don't mind helping out, but even they can contribute something to society...in fact, those are usually the people that try the hardest to get out of their situation

The high school I went to made the special education students sweep the halls between classes.

Is that kinda what you had in mind?

[hitekredneck]

The high school I went to made the special education students sweep the halls between classes.

Is that kinda what you had in mind?

as long as they were somehow compensated for their labor, sure...see, nobody wants to be a bad guy and say that everybody should have to contribute to their society in some way, but i ain't a nice guy...no matter the problems a person has, they'll always have something the can contribute...the question is, what will they choose to do?...another question is...will people let them?....
you bring up the special ed kids in school, well, i, many years ago, worked in the state home here in colorado with dd people, and i found that most are willing to do just about anything to please....sure, there were bedridden "kids" that couldn't do much of anything, and i have nothing but compassion for those poor souls and don't demand anything of them....but if you have the ability to work, then you need to support yourself, not have everybody around you do everything including wiping your ass

[Walter Weiss]

Is that really the best you can do hitek?

Liberalism and socialism are not the same thing.

Anyone that understood the teachings and the organized acts of the National Socialist German Worker's Party (NSDAP) would understand that what you say may very well be the truth.

[Walter Weiss]

Is that really the best you can do hitek?

Liberalism and socialism are not the same thing.

Anyone that understood the teachings and the organized acts of the National Socialist German Worker's Party (NSDAP) would understand that what you say may very well be the truth.

[hitekredneck]

ummm...is there an echo in here?:confused:

[England Expects]

Liberalism and socialism are totally different. Its just that many people who are liberal are also socialists and vice versa. As Walter points out, the Nazi's were socialists but were hardly liberal.

Nobody should get something for nothing. If they do, that's an abuse.

Its completely wrong to suggest that all poor people are moaners/scroungers/lazy or that all of them have the ability to make their lives better. To suggest that shows arrogance and a complete lack of empathy or understanding of the pressures they suffer. Its an over simplification of their problems. Its just like Marie Antoinette, who when told that the poor had no bread to eat said "let them eat cake", shortly before they cut her head off.

Could you imaging Jesus, when face with a leper saying "Get up and walk you lazy fucker"?

People live in poverty for many reasons. Sometimes there are not the opportunities for them. Sometimes the education system, or shitty parents have let them down dreadfully. Sometimes as kids they got in with the wrong crowd, ended up as criminals and now cant get jobs because of their records.

Unregulated free market capitalism throws these people on the scrap heap. The only thing they can do then is breed, and bring up more kids with no aspirations of a better life for themselves and the cycle continues ad infinitum.

The only ways to tackle this are through making work attractive (by minimum wage) and by improving education. By all means benefits should be means tested, but if someone cant get a job, the should receive benefits while they get further education. It needs to be a mix of incentive and compulsion.

[hitekredneck]

Liberalism and socialism are totally different. Its just that many people who are liberal are also socialists and vice versa. As Walter points out, the Nazi's were socialists but were hardly liberal.

Nobody should get something for nothing. If they do, that's an abuse.

Its completely wrong to suggest that all poor people are moaners/scroungers/lazy or that all of them have the ability to make their lives better. To suggest that shows arrogance and a complete lack of empathy or understanding of the pressures they suffer. Its an over simplification of their problems. Its just like Marie Antoinette, who when told that the poor had no bread to eat said "let them eat cake", shortly before they cut her head off.

Could you imaging Jesus, when face with a leper saying "Get up and walk you lazy fucker"?

People live in poverty for many reasons. Sometimes there are not the opportunities for them. Sometimes the education system, or shitty parents have let them down dreadfully. Sometimes as kids they got in with the wrong crowd, ended up as criminals and now cant get jobs because of their records.

Unregulated free market capitalism throws these people on the scrap heap. The only thing they can do then is breed, and bring up more kids with no aspirations of a better life for themselves and the cycle continues ad infinitum.

The only ways to tackle this are through making work attractive (by minimum wage) and by improving education. By all means benefits should be means tested, but if someone cant get a job, the should receive benefits while they get further education. It needs to be a mix of incentive and compulsion.

now, i never said all poor people were lazy and unwilling to work...but you need to admit that there are way too many people willing to let the government (taxpayers) support their lazy asses because they don't have to do anything for it...minimum wage does absolutely nothing to make work attractive, i'm not sure where you came up with that idea...no matter the min wage, there's going to be those who simply refuse to work...and something else i bet you don't realize, when you raise the min wage, you also raise the poverty level...now england, i dunno how it is over there for your impoverished but over here, even the poorest have it good over most of the rest of the world...yeah, i admit there's starvation here as well, and definitely think something should be done about it, but all in all, they have luxuries not available to anybody in the same situations in other countries....and something else, england ol buddy...EVERYBODY HERE HAS THE SAME OPPORTUNITIES!!!....don't go giving me that bs about how rich kids have all the fun...like i said before, i've lived as hard a life as anybody out there, and harder than most...i'm proof that the american dream IS alive and well and working like it should:cool:

[General Septem]

Its completely wrong to suggest that all poor people are moaners/scroungers/lazy or that all of them have the ability to make their lives better. To suggest that shows arrogance and a complete lack of empathy or understanding of the pressures they suffer. Its an over simplification of their problems. Its just like Marie Antoinette, who when told that the poor had no bread to eat said "let them eat cake", shortly before they cut her head off.

People live in poverty for many reasons. Sometimes there are not the opportunities for them. Sometimes the education system, or shitty parents have let them down dreadfully. Sometimes as kids they got in with the wrong crowd, ended up as criminals and now cant get jobs because of their records.

I'm sure many people feel like they can't do anything about it, but that doesn't mean they can't. Nothing is more dangerous than to put all power over your life into someone else's hands, and when you say that you're powerless that's exactly what you do.

Instead of giving poor people money, they need to teach them how to not be poor anymore.

[England Expects]

now, i never said all poor people were lazy and unwilling to work...but you need to admit that there are way too many people willing to let the government (taxpayers) support their lazy asses because they don't have to do anything for it...minimum wage does absolutely nothing to make work attractive, i'm not sure where you came up with that idea...no matter the min wage, there's going to be those who simply refuse to work...and something else i bet you don't realize, when you raise the min wage, you also raise the poverty level...now england, i dunno how it is over there for your impoverished but over here, even the poorest have it good over most of the rest of the world...yeah, i admit there's starvation here as well, and definitely think something should be done about it, but all in all, they have luxuries not available to anybody in the same situations in other countries....and something else, england ol buddy...EVERYBODY HERE HAS THE SAME OPPORTUNITIES!!!....don't go giving me that bs about how rich kids have all the fun...like i said before, i've lived as hard a life as anybody out there, and harder than most...i'm proof that the american dream IS alive and well and working like it should:cool:

Don't go giving me any BS about social mobility being the "American Dream" or about everyone having the same opportunities.

All people are products of their parents. If you have parents that dont give a fuck for their kids, you end up with people with low expectations and aspirations of life. Beating them with a stick won't work. They're down already, there's no point in kicking them.

Well done for making a go of your life hitek. My early life too wasn't the easiest (Thatcher closing the local coal mines that provided the area with jobs didn't help) but I've done okay. Good job that pays well and $400k house bought and paid for (not bad by the age of 29!) but I'll guarantee we've got another thing in common. FUCKING BRILLIANT PARENTS.

[Loseirdo]

Don't go giving me any BS about social mobility being the "American Dream" or about everyone having the same opportunities.

All people are products of their parents. If you have parents that dont give a fuck for their kids, you end up with people with low expectations and aspirations of life. Beating them with a stick won't work. They're down already, there's no point in kicking them.

Well done for making a go of your life hitek. My early life too wasn't the easiest (Thatcher closing the local coal mines that provided the area with jobs didn't help) but I've done okay. Good job that pays well and $400k house bought and paid for (not bad by the age of 29!) but I'll guarantee we've got another thing in common. FUCKING BRILLIANT PARENTS.

I have great parents, but my expectations are still low. If my IQ was about twenty points lower, I'd probably be a business major.

The parents are responsible for raising their kids well, but eventually everybody has to take responsibility for themselves. Blaming their parents for how they turned out is justification for some people, which gives them no incentive for change. I have no sympathy for those people.

[England Expects]

But many people, when they reach adulthood are ill-equipped to handle that responsibility. That's not necessarily their fault.

I tell you, every school should be teaching parenting skills. Anyone who fails should be chemically neutered.

[hitekredneck]

Don't go giving me any BS about social mobility being the "American Dream" or about everyone having the same opportunities.

All people are products of their parents. If you have parents that dont give a fuck for their kids, you end up with people with low expectations and aspirations of life. Beating them with a stick won't work. They're down already, there's no point in kicking them.

Well done for making a go of your life hitek. My early life too wasn't the easiest (Thatcher closing the local coal mines that provided the area with jobs didn't help) but I've done okay. Good job that pays well and $400k house bought and paid for (not bad by the age of 29!) but I'll guarantee we've got another thing in common. FUCKING BRILLIANT PARENTS.

wrong, england...my ma gives the term "white trailer trash" new meaning...i never knew my dad, and ma had a long string of unmentionable men in her life...my childhood was extremely rough, got shot and lost my best friend in one night at the age of 8...luckily, it started gettin better after that, but not by much...as for expectations, i have none...well, okay, i always expect the worst....that way, it don't hurt as much when it happens, and if it don't, then i'm pleasantly surprised...anyway, i'm not kicking anybody while they're down...one thing i've always liked about the catholic church is their charities...they don't believe in giving a man fish, they believe in teaching him how to catch his own...btw, great job on payin off the house...that's a difficult thing to do anywhere nowadays...

[England Expects]

Jeez Hitek sounds like the hand you was dealt was much worse than mine.

All more kudos to you for not goin the other way.

Too many people in your situation look around and only see closed doors. They need to be convinced that they can be opened, and shown how.

[hitekredneck]

Jeez Hitek sounds like the hand you was dealt was much worse than mine.

All more kudos to you for not goin the other way.

Too many people in your situation look around and only see closed doors. They need to be convinced that they can be opened, and shown how.

just please understand that i'm not whinin about my life...in fact, it's made me who i am today, and i'm pretty fuckin proud of myself, if ya don't mind me tootin my own horn for a change...but see, my point is if somebody like me, a high school dropout(but extremely well-educated, nonetheless), then not too many of these people have a valid reason to be in their situation...if you don't like the spot yer in, then do something to change it, and don't sit there cryin in yer fuckin milk:cool:

[England Expects]

In my experience, the poor dont want sympathy or pity. Most of them dont even want your charity.

What most of em want is a social ladder that doesnt appear to have the bottom 3 rungs missing.

Like you said hitek, al least you had the aptitude to learn something. Others dont.

Maybe your self confessed expectation of the worst leads you to think otherwise. Most conservatives are natural pessimists.

[hitekredneck]

In my experience, the poor dont want sympathy or pity. Most of them dont even want your charity.

What most of em want is a social ladder that doesnt appear to have the bottom 3 rungs missing.

Like you said hitek, al least you had the aptitude to learn something. Others dont.

Maybe your self confessed expectation of the worst leads you to think otherwise. Most conservatives are natural pessimists.

but ya missed the point, buddy...if the ladder is missin the bottom rungs, then they just need to jump higher...if that don't work, find something to climb on...if that don't work, try something else....i've been doin it all my life, mang, and it ain't the aptitude, it's the attitude....i'm a right stubborn bastard...can ya tell i'm irish?:D

[England Expects]

But kids need inspiration and role models. Ok your Dad was no use to you but something has given the ambition to make a better life for yourself.

For me it was seeing my Dad and all my unlces booted out of their jobs when I was 8. For you it may have been losing your friend??

The people at the very bottom are there because they dont realise they can make a difference to their own lives. At its worst they look for role models among rap "stars" and go about attaining self worth through drugs, guns and gangs.

We can never spend enough on educating our kids.

Fair play for being a stubborn bastard. There's Irish blood on my mothers side, so we're both "Plastic Paddies"!!

Tiochfaidh ar la!

[hitekredneck]

But kids need inspiration and role models. Ok your Dad was no use to you but something has given the ambition to make a better life for yourself.

For me it was seeing my Dad and all my unlces booted out of their jobs when I was 8. For you it may have been losing your friend??

The people at the very bottom are there because they dont realise they can make a difference to their own lives. At its worst they look for role models among rap "stars" and go about attaining self worth through drugs, guns and gangs.

We can never spend enough on educating our kids.

Fair play for being a stubborn bastard. There's Irish blood on my mothers side, so we're both "Plastic Paddies"!!

Tiochfaidh ar la!

sorry, mang...never could get the hang of gaelic:confused:

[Loseirdo]

but ya missed the point, buddy...if the ladder is missin the bottom rungs, then they just need to jump higher...if that don't work, find something to climb on...if that don't work, try something else....i've been doin it all my life, mang, and it ain't the aptitude, it's the attitude....i'm a right stubborn bastard...can ya tell i'm irish?:D

I have thick Irish blood on both sides of my family, and I can definitely vouch for the stubborn thing. Some of the most stubborn people in the world are in my family -- myself included. Some of the heaviest drinkers, too (myself not included, and I plan to keep it that way).

[General Septem]

I have thick Irish blood on both sides of my family, and I can definitely vouch for the stubborn thing. Some of the most stubborn people in the world are in my family -- myself included. Some of the heaviest drinkers, too (myself not included, and I plan to keep it that way).

I'm a quarter Irish. I like to say I'm an Italian capitalist, a German athlete/engineer, and an Irish stubborn drunk. :D

[Loseirdo]

I'm a quarter Irish. I like to say I'm an Italian capitalist, a German athlete/engineer, and an Irish stubborn drunk. :D

That's a volatile combination there, GS. I'm about three-quarters Irish. The rest is a random amalgamation of God knows what. There's some German and Native American in there somewhere.

[England Expects]

For all of us plastic paddies, tiochfaidh ar la means "Our day will come"

You actually pronounce it "Chucky-arr-larr"

[hitekredneck]

For all of us plastic paddies, tiochfaidh ar la means "Our day will come"

You actually pronounce it "Chucky-arr-larr"

shit...i think with gaelic i better get the phonetic spelling:D

[Walter Weiss]

shit...i think with gaelic i better get the phonetic spelling:D

There is certainly a large and fourishing population of folk in America with Irish ancestry...particularly in New York and New England.

In Texas, we seem to have a large number of folk with Irish ancestry as well. Is it possible that those with Irish ancestry are more numerous than any other kind?

Why are there so many people of Irish extraction particularly in Texas?

This is by no means a bad thing.

[General Septem]

There is certainly a large and fourishing population of folk in America with Irish ancestry...particularly in New York and New England.

In Texas, we seem to have a large number of folk with Irish ancestry as well. Is it possible that those with Irish ancestry are more numerous than any other kind?

Why are there so many people of Irish extraction particularly in Texas?

This is by no means a bad thing.

I do know that country music has strong roots in traditional Irish music. Irish seems to be one of the backbones of this country's heritage. It makes sense, too, because a lot of people would want to get away from the potato famine, the British empire, and the Catholic/Protestant civil war.

[Loseirdo]

I do know that country music has strong roots in traditional Irish music. Irish seems to be one of the backbones of this country's heritage. It makes sense, too, because a lot of people would want to get away from the potato famine, the British empire, and the Catholic/Protestant civil war.

That's very true. I love my homeland as much as the next man, but I have to admit that, until recently, it wasn't a great place to live. Still, when the Irish first started coming over, this wasn't a great place to live, either. The Irish were treated as badly as the slaves were. They still managed to take Boston, though, and so far are, as far as I know, the only people to have a nationally celebrated holiday based on their country. And who can honestly say they don't love St. Patrick's Day? (Except maybe the people who have to clean up afterwards.)

[England Expects]

I read somewhere that there are 30m Irish passports in use, but only 3.5m people live there.

You should head for Dublin next March Loseirdo. It cant be beaten.

[Loseirdo]

I read somewhere that there are 30m Irish passports in use, but only 3.5m people live there.

You should head for Dublin next March Loseirdo. It cant be beaten.

My family is actually planning a trip to Ireland next June or July. I would love to be there for St. Paddy's Day, but that will have to wait until another time.

[Walter Weiss]

I read somewhere that there are 30m Irish passports in use, but only 3.5m people live there.

You should head for Dublin next March Loseirdo. It cant be beaten.

May the Irish art of fermentation be ever lasting!

I am an extreme lover of many German Beers, but I have to tell you that some of the old-time flavors of the Irish Brewmasters are unsurpassed! Would life actually be worth living without that?