If abortion were illegal....

[iluvjd90]

It doesn't really matter if abortion was legal or not because women would just go get an illegal one. Which is way more dangerous then getting a professional doctor to do it. If the woman made a mistake, or if she was raped and didn't want the baby, then the woman has the choice to make to have an abortion or not.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

That's not much of an argument. It's simply taking the easy way out. It says to me that you believe since we can't stop it all together, we might as well just ignore it all together. The issue is that it is still killing a human being, and it SHOULD be stopped as much as possible, regardless of whether it will be completely abolished. No law has been able to stop anything from happening all together. Yes, the few who decide to do it anyways will probably be making their lives worse, but killing a person should not be something used to make your life better anyways.

[iluvjd90]

I'm not saying that the abortion issue needs to be avoided. I am just stating that there are times when abortion is necessary and it is the right of the mother-to-be to decide to have the baby or not and it would be must safer for a woman to go get a doctor to do it then have it done by some idiot looking for money.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

It is not the right of the mother-to-be. There are other life affirming options, and these may be more difficult on the mother-to-be, and she may not WANT to go through with it but she has already chosen to, conciously or not. As quoted by Leonard Nimoy in The Undiscovered Country: "What you want is irrelevant, what you've chosen is at hand." Yes, there are times when this has not been a choice of the mother-to-be, - rape for example - which should be treated differently. But allowing abortion all together should not be the way things are.

[hkdbadreligion]

fetuses arent people.
If a woman cannot afford to care for the kid nor the sense of how to care for one than she, along with the fetus, should be killed. (another solution to help fight overpopulation)

[iluvjd90]

If she already made a choice why shouldn't she have the right to make another decision. What if it would endanger the life of the woman if her boyfriend or husband finds out she got pregnant? Should the woman risk it? There are some situations when abortion in necessary and I don't think outside lookers have any right to judge what she should do because we aren't in her shoes. America is supposed to be about freedom and it is the right of a woman to make that kind of decision. NOT the government or anyone else except for maybe the man involved.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

If she already made a choice why shouldn't she have the right to make another decision. What if it would endanger the life of the woman if her boyfriend or husband finds out she got pregnant? Should the woman risk it? There are some situations when abortion in necessary and I don't think outside lookers have any right to judge what she should do because we aren't in her shoes. America is supposed to be about freedom and it is the right of a woman to make that kind of decision. NOT the government or anyone else except for maybe the man involved.

She shouldn't have the right to make another decision because this "other decision" of yours in deciding to kill someone. Regardless of if keeping it endangers her own life, getting rid of it guarantees the loss of the child's life. Of course there are extenuating circumstances in all laws and this one shouldn't be any different, there will be times when the abortion should be allowed, but only in extreme cases. The problem is that we aren't seeing this as a person because we have not gotten to know the child yet. This is poor reasoning and the main falacy of the acceptance of abortion.

[beelzebub]

If she already made a choice why shouldn't she have the right to make another decision.

YES she does! You are exactly right. I am glad someone in here has good common sense.


What if it would endanger the life of the woman if her boyfriend or husband finds out she got pregnant? Should the woman risk it? There are some situations when abortion in necessary and I don't think outside lookers have any right to judge what she should do because we aren't in her shoes.

ABSOUTLY! You are right on target. Don't let the oxymoronic "Brains" sway you from that idea!


America is supposed to be about freedom and it is the right of a woman to make that kind of decision. NOT the government or anyone else except for maybe the man involved.

Yes Yes Yes! This is why I love Americans! We do have these rights and we shouldn't let any conservative controlling assholes (General & Brain) try to take them away! Good for you!

[hkdbadreligion]

America is supposed to be about freedom

"America stands for freedom but if you think you're free try walking into a deli and urinating on the cheese. Anarchy Burger, hold the government." -the Vandals

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

ABSOUTLY! You are right on target. Don't let the oxymoronic "Brains" sway you from that idea!

You fail to realize that I have many times pointed out that there SHOULD be exceptions for extreme situations. These extreme situations should not be a reason to ignore the issue of abortion all together.




Yes Yes Yes! This is why I love Americans! We do have these rights and we shouldn't let any conservative controlling assholes (General & Brain) try to take them away! Good for you!

Please, there is a line where this 'Freedom' of yours needs to be drawn, and murder of another human is definately on the other side of that line. The absolute freedom that you dream of would cause SERIOUS problems in the real world.

[hkdbadreligion]

I would like to see a celebrity get pregnant and get an abortion. That will be the time when the legality of abortion will be determined.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

It will get the entire country talking about it, but I'm certain that there will always be people that don't believe it can be murder until you can put a face on it, and there will always be those of us who don't need such absolute evidence to connect the dots logically.

[hkdbadreligion]

I dont really see it as murder. Its more like preventing life. Murder is to take life away. Abortion is preventing life. See the difference?

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

I don't see it as a difference. The life has already started, it can no longer be prevented, only destroyed. The way to prevent this life is abstinence or following safety measures. Even while following safety measures though, there is a chance that something will go wrong. That's just a gamble that you choose to take.

[iluvjd90]

If you are going to start talking about abstinence or using safety precautions then maybe you should be against premarital sex all together.Hell let's just make premarital sex illegal all together, that would lower STD and abortion ratings wouldn't it. Yes, but it would also BE TAKING AWAY THE RIGHTS OF PEOPLE. You can't have it both ways you either believe that people have the right to be free or you believe that people should be given a long set of rules that they should follow their whole life without questioning it. Honestly, who gets to say whether or not what we do is right or wrong? What gives you the power to judge what a person does in that situation? Do you even know what you would do if something like an unwanted pregnancy came along when you know you couldn't take care of yourself, let alone another person?

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

If you are going to start talking about abstinence or using safety precautions then maybe you should be against premarital sex all together.Hell let's just make premarital sex illegal all together, that would lower STD and abortion ratings wouldn't it. Yes, but it would also BE TAKING AWAY THE RIGHTS OF PEOPLE.

Having premarital sex and getting an abortion are two completely separate topics. People who have post-marital sex get abortions, and people who have pre-marital sex sometimes do not. Granted, it will lower the nubmer of abortions, but it will not accomplish the task.


You can't have it both ways you either believe that people have the right to be free or you believe that people should be given a long set of rules that they should follow their whole life without questioning it.

No, this is not a binary choice. There are many variables in between and my aim is in the middle of your two extremes. People have the right to be free, but those rights need to be limited so that people do not simply do whatever they want whenever they want. For example, people should not be allowed to just kill anyone they wish, and this is where the abortion issue comes into play. It is killing someone because you want to. This person does not fit into your life, even though you put him there, and now you are going to correct for this misfit by killing it. I believe that that is wrong.


Honestly, who gets to say whether or not what we do is right or wrong? What gives you the power to judge what a person does in that situation? Do you even know what you would do if something like an unwanted pregnancy came along when you know you couldn't take care of yourself, let alone another person?

The government gets to say whether what we do is right or wrong. Your own argument gives me the power to judge a person, everyone has the right to their own opinion. Yes I do know what I would do in such a situation. I would live through the 9 months of the pregnancy as best I could and put the child up for adoption. Try to give the kid the best chance possible. I believe that every parent is obligated to at least give their child the best chance that they can.

[hkdbadreligion]

It is not killing. A fetus is not living.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Just what is your definition of living? If it will be alive without negative interference then it already is alive.

[hkdbadreligion]

Living: alive.
No it's not. Do you consider a seed alive or an egg alive?

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

a seed, no...it requires assistance before it becomes alive, it is far from conclusive that it will be alive without negative influence.

An egg is alive, but not so much as is a fetus. It still requires proper nourishment (primarily heat from momma's ass) until it hatches. The fetus needs not be even considered and the vast majority of the time you will still have a healthy baby pop out.

[General Septem]

Women wouldn't get illegal abortions if they were taught not to in school.

[General Septem]

Do you consider an egg alive?

The egg is not fertilized, so no.

[hkdbadreligion]

The fetus needs not be even considered...

By that you say the fetus isnt living so abortion is not murder and we shouldnt care. So now you agree with me?

[General Septem]

By that you say the fetus isnt living so abortion is not murder and we shouldnt care. So now you agree with me?

What he meant by "not having to be considered" is that you could totaly ignore him or her for the whole 9 months and he or she could still be born.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

By that you say the fetus isnt living so abortion is not murder and we shouldnt care. So now you agree with me?

If you would have read and understood the entire message, it points out that you don't need to give the fetus any consideration and it still will become a living baby. Thus it is MORE alive than either a seed or an egg that you had asked about.

[hkdbadreligion]

If you would have read and understood the entire message, it points out that you don't need to give the fetus any consideration and it still will become a living baby. Thus it is MORE alive than either a seed or an egg that you had asked about.

So... Ignore it and go on with your normal daily routine of smoking, drinking, fucking, and getting stoned. Well fuck, that's murder.

[General Septem]

So... Ignore it and go on with your normal daily routine of smoking, drinking, fucking, and getting stoned. Well fuck, that's murder.

Alright, let me spell it out for you.

Sperm is not human, and one of the reasons is because if left to the natural course it will just die. Same goes with the egg. The fetus is already human because nothing will be added to it except oxygen and nutrients.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

So... Ignore it and go on with your normal daily routine of smoking, drinking, fucking, and getting stoned. Well fuck, that's murder.

You raise a good point. Is it murder to force these things onto an unborn child thus killing it? That depends on where you stand on the definition of murder. I'm seeing these acts during pregnancy as falling more along the lines of extreme neglect. Of course, getting stoned is illegal to begin with. Smoking should be illegal until they find a way to contain the exhaust to stop harming others. Fucking, assuming that you're not going overboard with the BDSM thing shouldn't really be of any harm to the child. So the question then becomes drinking. You're putting it into your body and thus the child's as well. Arguably it probably should be illegal to consume exhorbitant amounts of alcohol while pregnant, but this is something that is far too difficult to control.

All of these things aren't being done with the sole purpose of killing a living person though, which is what takes away their label of murder. If your intent in performing these acts is to kill the baby then it would be murder. But this is something that arguably cannot be controlled, and responsibility of the mother is the best that we can expect.

[hkdbadreligion]

All I hear when you speak is... "hkdbadreligion is right, and always right."

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

All I hear when you speak is... "hkdbadreligion is right, and always right."

Far from it, I'm simply keeping an open mind on the situation. I prefer to debate and listen to the issues while presenting my own, and then decide just how to define which argument is right. A reply like that last one you made only makes me want to agree with you less.

[Archangel]

fetuses arent people.
If a woman cannot afford to care for the kid nor the sense of how to care for one than she, along with the fetus, should be killed. (another solution to help fight overpopulation)

Well if hypocrasy could be boiled down into one sentence it would be the one featured above!!!
How rediculous to suggest such a thing. You are making no allowences for RAPE or are you so far up your own ass that you've now failed to notice a basic human right? - it's funny how being right wing makes you loose sight of those isn't it.

It is a womens body and a womens choice. No one is forced to get an abotion but should a woman want or NEED one either for physical or mental health reasons this right should not be denied by right wing politicians who have no cencept of morality!

For your information, untill 6 months a baby is no more a living thing than a corpes. It is (scientifically) a shell with no feeling of memory- unlike a mother who you would willingly dispose off.

As I write this their are tears of anger in my eyes at the sheer ignorance of your statement. Their is a perfectly good reason that most of the western world no longer debates abortion as an issue- because they do not live in the dark ages. YOU MAKE ME SICK!

[General Septem]

RE: Well if hypocrasy could be boiled down into one sentence it would be the one featured above!!!

If you would care to notice, HK is pro-abortion. He was probably just being a jackass by making that post.

RE: How rediculous to suggest such a thing. You are making no allowences for RAPE or are you so far up your own ass that you've now failed to notice a basic human right?

Basic human right... you mean the right to murder your own offspring or the right not to be murdered by your own mother, or anyone else for that matter?

RE: It is a womens body and a womens choice. No one is forced to get an abotion but should a woman want or NEED one either for physical or mental health reasons this right should not be denied by right wing politicians who have no cencept of morality!

First off, there is no circumstance where a woman needs an abortion. Second. You Democrats are the ones who have no morality. You're the ones who don't give a shit about anyone else, it's all "I want to do whatever the fuck I want to do and I'm not letting anyone get in my way no matter HOW it affects them!" That's your fucking liberalism in a nutshell. So don't you come to me with that bullshit.

RE: For your information, untill 6 months a baby is no more a living thing than a corpes. It is (scientifically) a shell with no feeling of memory- unlike a mother who you would willingly dispose off.

That's total bullshit. A baby is scientifically proven to be alive from the fertilization of the egg. It feels pain at 12 weeks, well before 6 months. A corpse does not feel pain. A baby grows faster in the womb than in any other stage of life - he or she can double in size in a matter of hours, and even minutes, in the begining. A corpse does not grow at all. A fetus moves a lot. A corpse is unable to. A fetus has a beating heart well before 6 months. A corpse's heart does not beat. Everyone alive today was a fetus. Nobody alive today has been a corpse. If I killed you as a fetus, you would not be here right now. I can't kill you as a corpse because you're already dead and will never be alive again. Need I go on?

And what the hell are you talking about, disposing of the woman?

RE: As I write this their are tears of anger in my eyes at the sheer ignorance of your statement. Their is a perfectly good reason that most of the western world no longer debates abortion as an issue- because they do not live in the dark ages. YOU MAKE ME SICK!

Actually most women are pro-life. However, many women are brainwashed by propaganda such as "let other people make their own choices" - so they just say that they're personally pro-life but pro-choice for others, and leave it at that. I can't speak for the men because I haven't seen any studies done. But I can say that the majority of the pro-choice movement is men and hairy dyke women. I understand that you may mean well, but you're ignoring the fact that babies are being brutally murdered.

[hkdbadreligion]

yeah, what he said

[Ape-Shit]

In case you haven't heard.............. ABORTION IS LEGAL.........! So is "Plan B" the morning after Pill.