Religon fact or fiction.

[truth.357]

Do you know whats been the nuber one killer for over hundreds of years??? Religon has clamed many victims AND many casulties, but people just want to support it with blood.There has never been a war without some sort of religon or belief of who is right and who is wrong.Well I have never meet a man who didn't do an evil or "sinful" thing....but all you have to do is ask for forgivness....bullshit.But yet in the eyes of the victim God wants punishment. Thats why there is no real religon and if there is well.....see you in hell. Because I know that for everything I do I do it because it feels right and noone can tell me otherwise.Of course I don't do anything to affect someone else just my self.
Its all purro petho

Thats the Truth.357

[Zzyzx]

There has never been a war without some sort of religon or belief of who is right and who is wrong.

You know you're right - I don't think I've ever heard of a war between two parties that completely agree.

FIRST GUY: "Man, I love apples. So juicy and delicious."

SECOND GUY: "No kidding! I could eat apples all day and be happy."

FIRST GUY: "Wha? Have at you!"

Religion doesn't make much sense, does it? However, as long as the religious fundies don't criticize me then I won't bother them, either. If it makes 'em happy, more power to 'em. Gotta eat some apples...

[A3N]

Religion really is a bunch of bullshit
If there really is a god up there then why did he make us so fucked up?
Why did he create satan and make us do evil things?
If he is up there then he is the most evil son a bitch ever!
Look at the dinosaurs! The were created by "god" as some say.
So got killed them and put us on eath! What if he gets bored with us?!
Willl he kill us off and make some new crearures?!
Thats why religion is all a bunch of bullshit!!!!!
There is no god! and if there is then why did he fuck some broad!
Why is his son's death such a sacrafice if he went to heaven??
Why has the bible been proven wrong so many times!!???
WHY?
BECAUSE RELIGION IS ALL ABUNCH OF BULLSHIT!!!!!!!:D

[Dumass]

Now listen yall gay asse niggas ill com ovuh theh and kill yall mofuckuhsa niggas bitch nigga a3n gay asse nigga mofuckuh ill com ovuh theh kill yall gay asse mofuckuh bitchaz

[Dumass]

Religion really is a bunch of bullshit
If there really is a god up there then why did he make us so fucked up?
Why did he create satan and make us do evil things?
If he is up there then he is the most evil son a bitch ever!
Look at the dinosaurs! The were created by "god" as some say.
So got killed them and put us on eath! What if he gets bored with us?!
Willl he kill us off and make some new crearures?!
Thats why religion is all a bunch of bullshit!!!!!
There is no god! and if there is then why did he fuck some broad!
Why is his son's death such a sacrafice if he went to heaven??
Why has the bible been proven wrong so many times!!???
WHY?
BECAUSE RELIGION IS ALL ABUNCH OF BULLSHIT!!!!!!!:D

I sah u a nigga mofuckuh so go suck my nutzen bitchaz nigga

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Religion really is a bunch of bullshit
If there really is a god up there then why did he make us so fucked up?
Why did he create satan and make us do evil things?
If he is up there then he is the most evil son a bitch ever!
Look at the dinosaurs! The were created by "god" as some say.
So got killed them and put us on eath! What if he gets bored with us?!
Willl he kill us off and make some new crearures?!
Thats why religion is all a bunch of bullshit!!!!!
There is no god! and if there is then why did he fuck some broad!
Why is his son's death such a sacrafice if he went to heaven??
Why has the bible been proven wrong so many times!!???
WHY?
BECAUSE RELIGION IS ALL ABUNCH OF BULLSHIT!!!!!!!:D

Your logic doesn't hold. You're looking at things from a very narrow point of view. For one, how do you know that the dinosaurs still deserved to be here? The bible has been proven wrong because it was written by humans, from their understanding of things at the time, not written by god. You appear to be focusing on Christianity here, who's to say that this religion is the closest to being the best? There are so many religions around the world that I don't feel any one of them gets it right. Yet for some reason people all over the world believe in god. Too many for it to just be some coincidence. Just because none of the religions has gotten it perfect though is no reason to conclude that god does not exist.

[beelzebub]

Religion really is a bunch of bullshit
If there really is a god up there then why did he make us so fucked up?
Why did he create satan and make us do evil things?
If he is up there then he is the most evil son a bitch ever!
Look at the dinosaurs! The were created by "god" as some say.
So got killed them and put us on eath! What if he gets bored with us?!
Willl he kill us off and make some new crearures?!
Thats why religion is all a bunch of bullshit!!!!!
There is no god! and if there is then why did he fuck some broad!
Why is his son's death such a sacrafice if he went to heaven??
Why has the bible been proven wrong so many times!!???
WHY?
BECAUSE RELIGION IS ALL ABUNCH OF BULLSHIT!!!!!!!:D


Agreed. I like what you have to say.
You might want to tone down on the ghetto lingo to make an untangled point. If not then you will fall into the ignorant abyss of illogic. For example look at BBO's so called "written work".

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Agreed. I like what you have to say.
You might want to tone down on the ghetto lingo to make an untangled point. If not then you will fall into the ignorant abyss of illogic. For example look at BBO's so called "written work".


Are you trying to say that I use 'ghetto lingo'? I've never used it for anything more than to make light of the situation! If you're attempting to say that logic doesn't hold in my posts, then you are truly misguided.

[General Septem]

If there really is a god up there then why did he make us so fucked up?

He didn't; we did that our damn selves. Or Satan did, whichever.


Why did he create satan and make us do evil things?

He didn't create a Satan, He created Lucifer. Lucifer was perfect, but to be perfect he also had free will, which meant that he had the free will to abandon God. Nor does God make us do evil things.


Look at the dinosaurs! The were created by "god" as some say.
So got killed them and put us on eath! What if he gets bored with us?!

Dinosaurs and humans are very different. Dinosaurs like all animals have mortal souls that die. Humans have eternal souls. Plus, what's the big deal? We all die after about 80 years anyway. But since we have eternal souls, after we die we go to either Heaven or Hell, but either way it's our choice.


Thats why religion is all a bunch of bullshit!!!!!

No, that's why you're a dumbass.


There is no god! and if there is then why did he fuck some broad!

He technically didn't. "Fucking" is a physical act; God impregnated Mary spiritually. He needed some way to bring His son into the world; what better way?


Why is his son's death such a sacrafice if he went to heaven??

Dying for someone is the ultimate sacrifice, which means that it's impossible to give a greater sacrifice. So good point, if Jesus can die on the cross and have it be "no big deal because He went to heaven", then giving our entire lives doing missionary work to help the poor must be a walk in the park.


Why has the bible been proven wrong so many times!!???
WHY?

News flash: it hasn't.

[truth.357]

Hey assholes...listen to what you are saying....GOD really did a great job on creating all you people.First with getto azz whanabe gangster and oh lets no forget mister analyze everyfuckingthing....listen if you want to analyze anybodys shit become a fucking physican....otherwise get off his nuts.Its his way of thinking or couping with the ultimate truth...that you live to die and become worm food.
Plain and simple....enjoy it.

Thats the FUCKIN truth.357

[General Septem]

So what if people bitch and moan? I don't see the connection.

[General Septem]

Have you ever meet a pothead that just wants to argue,fight, bitch or comlain...no, but I meet people who I think if they smoked or did something to just let shit go then by all means do it.

I agree with your decision to delete this post. Unfortunately I automatically subscribe by email to each thread I post in, so I saw it anyway. :D

[truth.357]

Was was high and thought it was in the inspiration pile......my bad.:D

[Mitya Karamazov]

There was only one true Christian , and he died on the cross ,, I'm a pagan myself , Holy Order of The Frosty Cold One , I don't go for in for that freaky stuff though ,, like Methodists:eek: {yes ,I ignored all non- Judea-Christian religons on purpose.} ,, bloody savages.

[Wiljas9]

Ok this whole post started off by saying all wars have been started by religion. That is not only wrong but it is an opinion from someone that has no idea what religion is really about, not unlike the people that start a war and say it's for a religious cause.
Wars are caused by greed and envy. Plain and simple. Religion is only used as a scape goat. The crusades is because some ass wanted land. WW2 was because Hitler wanted power and he was rejected by his own people the jews. So he decided he wanted to kill them off.
The current "War on terror was caused because someone lost power and wanted it back. You see it happening right now. Everyday there is a kidnapping or car bomb or some other sensless murder. It's caused by someone that has lost their power and they want it back. So they persuade some idiot that dosen't know any better. That if they strap a bomb to their chest and run into a crowded area and kill themselves that it's for god.
Mankind is royaly messing themselves up with or without saten.

[willfuckyourmind]

Ok this whole post started off by saying all wars have been started by religion. That is not only wrong but it is an opinion from someone that has no idea what religion is really about, not unlike the people that start a war and say it's for a religious cause.
Wars are caused by greed and envy. Plain and simple. Religion is only used as a scape goat. The crusades is because some ass wanted land. WW2 was because Hitler wanted power and he was rejected by his own people the jews. So he decided he wanted to kill them off.
The current "War on terror was caused because someone lost power and wanted it back. You see it happening right now. Everyday there is a kidnapping or car bomb or some other sensless murder. It's caused by someone that has lost their power and they want it back. So they persuade some idiot that dosen't know any better. That if they strap a bomb to their chest and run into a crowded area and kill themselves that it's for god.
Mankind is royaly messing themselves up with or without saten.

Before you dish out bullshit...
get your facts straight.


All wars were and are started
by religion.
Hitler and Mussolini
were Catholics.
World War 2 was a pogrom
against the wealthy Jews.
Billions upon billions
were confiscated
ang looted from them
of which remains in
Swiss and Vatican banks.


Do some research.
Visit a library.
The history of religion
is really all about
wars fought in the name of some god
and too in The Name Of THE CREATOR GOD.


I used to be a priest.
I left the priesthood
because I could not handle
the bullshit of religion.
Rather the hypocrisy
of the irreligious religious.

[General Septem]

Before you dish out bullshit...
get your facts straight.


All wars were and are started
by religion.
Hitler and Mussolini
were Catholics.

First, I think you need to brush up on your history. Hitler ceased to be a practicing Catholic long before he became the facist dictator we all know and love. I couldn't find as much on Mussolini, but I do know he was banned from his mother's Church at an early age and expelled from school for throwing an object at someone. I learned all of this in about ten minutes' time, so there's no excuse for you not having known.

Second, Hitler killed countless Catholics and devistated their cities when he invaded Poland. He used Poland as a waste dump so that the Germans wouldn't have to smell the burning flesh of Hitler's victims. His intentions were not Catholic; he was trying to advance the supposed Aryan race.

Third, and you should know this, genocide and terrorism are against Catholic Law. I need not remind you that unlike other Christians we Catholics have clear cut guidelines as to what you can and can not do, and you cannot terrorize people nor commit genocide. If a Catholic does so, he is wrong.

Fourth, breaking away from Hitler and now focusing on your "all wars" statement, war is not necessarily bad. Sometimes failing to go to war can be a moral failure. Suppose a dictator is committing genocide on its people, or in some other way a severe injustice is being forced upon a country's citizens. America is a super power; we have the capability to stop the injustice. We have a choice to help the citizens of other nations or to sit back and do nothing. The moral decision is to help those in need, and in so doing it may start a war. That is a just war; a necessary war.

http://omegaplus.blogspot.com/2006/03/whos-got-time-to-worry-about-rest-of.html
http://omegaplus.blogspot.com/2005/10/catholics-are-not-homophobics.html

[Wiljas9]

Before you dish out bullshit...
get your facts straight.


All wars were and are started
by religion. False go back to the library. and go back to school.

Hitler and Mussolini
were Catholics. Yea. but they were they practacing. Also if I remember correctly, Hitler wrote his little book about hate and how he though he was screwed over by the jews and about the superior Arien Race. He was in it for power and revenge. Not religion!

World War 2 was a pogrom
against the wealthy Jews. Love your conspiracy theory. Now you can come back to the real world.
Billions upon billions
were confiscated
ang looted from them
of which remains in
Swiss and Vatican banks. How do you know this for sure? If you hate religion so much and they are the root of all eveil. Why are you not killed off for all of th

Do some research.
Visit a library.
The history of religion
is really all about
wars fought in the name of some god
and too in The Name Of THE CREATOR GOD.


I used to be a priest.
I left the priesthood
because I could not handle
the bullshit of religion.
Rather the hypocrisy
of the irreligious religious.

Lastly you are a Hypocrite. You studied religion but you do not understand any of the concepts. You are a cry baby. I don't care if you were a priest or a bum. You were part of the bullshit when you should have been part of the solution. Now you have become even more of a hypocrite by not only fighting against what you fought so much for but you can't even back up anything you say with acctual facts.

Religion is about striving for peace and harmony and standing up against evil. If its name is used in any other way. It is not how it was intended and only shows the curruption of man. You may have read about the curruption and weaknesses of man in a little book we call the bible. If not read it again.

[hkdbadreligion]

I have been arguing with this highly Christian chick and she brought to my attention that God lied, about food. In the beginning he/she said not to eat unclean animals, now Jesus came and told, i think Paul, that God says it's ok to eat anything worth eating that someone puts in front of you. Jesus also said God doesnt make "unclean" animals.

[General Septem]

I have been arguing with this highly Christian chick and she brought to my attention that God lied, about food. In the beginning he/she said not to eat unclean animals, now Jesus came and told, i think Paul, that God says it's ok to eat anything worth eating that someone puts in front of you. Jesus also said God doesnt make "unclean" animals.
That wasn't a lie. In the Old Testament there are ritual laws and moral laws. The moral laws must be followed, as they are in place to prevent you from doing evil, as well as to protect society from becoming the trash can that America has turned into as a result of not following moral laws. The ritual laws you simply had to follow in order to be Jewish. But you don't necessarily have to be Jewish to follow Christ. So while you can't eat pig if you want to be Jewish, it doesn't matter because you don't have to be Jewish.

[hillbill]

I think you all are looking at this yhe wrong way now the simplest q is why does god let new babies into this world and them die of natural death i.e. cotdeath and another thing if luciffer is evil why does he punish people for doing bad things not celebrate I believe everyone just wants to believe there is something better out there ohn and do you really believe joseph would of been happy with his missus getting up the duff with some1 elses kid

[General Septem]

I can't even understand what the hell you just said.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

I think you all are looking at this yhe wrong way now the simplest q is why does god let new babies into this world and them die of natural death i.e. cotdeath and another thing if luciffer is evil why does he punish people for doing bad things not celebrate I believe everyone just wants to believe there is something better out there ohn and do you really believe joseph would of been happy with his missus getting up the duff with some1 elses kid

I've studied the hillbillies dictionary enough to get the main jist of this dumbasses ramblings. Basically, first he says that he doesn't understand why god would allow babies to die and because he can't understand the intentions of a higher power, that higher power must not exist. Next he points out many reasons why certain beliefs' messages are flawed, and because their messages are flawed there can't possibly be any god up there in the first place. He also points out that people believe these things for no better reason than the fact that they WANT to believe it. That argument may have some logic behind it.

There still has never been any conclusive evidence that a higher power does not exist, and some strong arguments made that one could exist. I'd prefer to err on the side that pays off in the end if it were right instead of the one that offers nothing more than an arrogantly heated debate that can never be rewarded.

[hkdbadreligion]

That wasn't a lie. In the Old Testament there are ritual laws and moral laws. The moral laws must be followed, as they are in place to prevent you from doing evil, as well as to protect society from becoming the trash can that America has turned into as a result of not following moral laws. The ritual laws you simply had to follow in order to be Jewish. But you don't necessarily have to be Jewish to follow Christ. So while you can't eat pig if you want to be Jewish, it doesn't matter because you don't have to be Jewish.

Then why do christians not just extract what they need from the bible and discard the jewish stuff? No confusion.

[Nobody]

Then why do christians not just extract what they need from the bible and discard the jewish stuff? No confusion.
They do. Its called The New Testement. The old testement WAS for the jewish stuff!

[Nobody]

I've studied the hillbillies dictionary enough to get the main jist of this dumbasses ramblings. Basically, first he says that he doesn't understand why god would allow babies to die and because he can't understand the intentions of a higher power, that higher power must not exist. Next he points out many reasons why certain beliefs' messages are flawed, and because their messages are flawed there can't possibly be any god up there in the first place. He also points out that people believe these things for no better reason than the fact that they WANT to believe it. That argument may have some logic behind it.

There still has never been any conclusive evidence that a higher power does not exist, and some strong arguments made that one could exist. I'd prefer to err on the side that pays off in the end if it were right instead of the one that offers nothing more than an arrogantly heated debate that can never be rewarded.
Are ya all learned up?

[General Septem]

Then why do christians not just extract what they need from the bible and discard the jewish stuff? No confusion.
Because it's not really that confusing and it's still important to know, since Judaism was kind of the base of our faith.

[hillbill]

Even your argument has no logic, thats like turning around and saying that because we havent proved that bigfoot doesnt exist it means he does and in the same breath just because you cant prove it doesnt exist does not make it less of a fact like the tooth fairy or santa. It seems to me that you have nothing in life to comfort you than the hiprocracy of religion and its immoral beliefs. Why dont you just face the facts that you are born you live then you die. Your childlike need to justify your existence through the belief of a higher power amuses me. Grow a set of your own and take responsibility of your own misdeminas.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Even your argument has no logic, thats like turning around and saying that because we havent proved that bigfoot doesnt exist it means he does and in the same breath just because you cant prove it doesnt exist does not make it less of a fact like the tooth fairy or santa.

So you choose to not believe that it's possible simply because you have not seen absolute proof? We don't have absolute proof that there is life on other planets, so because of this your logic says that there can't be life on other planets. The entire universe is completely void of life with the exception of this tiny little speck of a speck called earth. DOUBTFUL

All that my argument said was that you can't prove things one way or the other, so why would you want to take the chance that you're wrong in saying there is no god when there is no payout for it? Especially when there are good arguments that support the possibility of a god.



It seems to me that you have nothing in life to comfort you than the hiprocracy of religion and its immoral beliefs. Why dont you just face the facts that you are born you live then you die. Your childlike need to justify your existence through the belief of a higher power amuses me. Grow a set of your own and take responsibility of your own misdeminas.

When did this become a childlike belief? There are billions of adults that believe in some higher power, and generally children don't have the mental capacity to try to "justify" their existance. Please refrain from making insults, they never help an argument and only point the debate in the wrong direction.

Of course you are born, you live and you die. I never said that wasn't so. But it is human nature to ask why, and it does not show intelligence when you refuse to accept all the possibilities that haven't been proved wrong.

[hillbill]

I see your point and i know for fact that there is probably another type of life form but we are going off the subject by saying this im talking about the religions over the world that do nothing but contradict each other , and the catholics believing that you can rape 20 women say a few hell marys and you can go to heaven? do you agree with that or the muslims believing that you can kill a bunch of people in the name of allah and got to heaven with 7 virgins do you agree with that? what religion are you? I think the only religion that is meaningfull is the budda treat people the way you wish to be treated. By the way you are the one who started the insults you ignoramus

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

I see your point and i know for fact that there is probably another type of life form but we are going off the subject by saying this im talking about the religions over the world that do nothing but contradict each other , and the catholics believing that you can rape 20 women say a few hell marys and you can go to heaven? do you agree with that or the muslims believing that you can kill a bunch of people in the name of allah and got to heaven with 7 virgins do you agree with that? what religion are you? I think the only religion that is meaningfull is the budda treat people the way you wish to be treated. By the way you are the one who started the insults you ignoramus


I was born and raised catholic, but I don't believe that they or any other religion has it right. I don't believe that killing someone is a way into heaven, but if you are raised hearing that it is the best, most surething way in, how fair would it be for god to punish them and not let them in? These people are doing this because their religion says that it's right and they've heard no argument good enough to refute it. On the other hand, if you constantly commit sins for your own benefit, knowing that you can wipe them clean with a few words probably shouldn't be overlooked. This is just a way for some people to try to dodge the system. I doubt that god will give them much leniency. Really, I have to agree with the Buddha thing. Treating people right and doing the right thing really is all that should be asked of us. A person should be expected to help out and give what he can whenever he can. If this were the way that everyone operated, there would be no surprises when we got to heaven.

[General Septem]

and the catholics believing that you can rape 20 women say a few hell marys and you can go to heaven?
I must admit I was unaware of this clause. If your source for this information is credible I would appreciate you letting me know where this prfound wisdom comes from.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

The point is that the catholic church claims that all you need to do is confess your sins and they will be forgiven. There is a bit more to it, but that is what he's getting at. I don't agree with it. If a person has truly changed who he is, and shown that he really is a good person, things might change. Simply confessing your sins when the end is near seems hardly enough to make up for them however. This is one part of the catholic church that I don't understand and don't believe.

[Mitya Karamazov]

The Lord says Love , The Lord says kill ,,, I think that perhaps we like to use god {lower case} for our own reasons so that we might ,,,, Wait !! Divine Inspiration !!! ,, The LORD sayeth unto me ,, " Drink , thou , and feast upon the Devilled Eggs , and stoats , and orang-utangs , and Emus ,,,,"

[General Septem]

The point is that the catholic church claims that all you need to do is confess your sins and they will be forgiven. There is a bit more to it, but that is what he's getting at. I don't agree with it. If a person has truly changed who he is, and shown that he really is a good person, things might change. Simply confessing your sins when the end is near seems hardly enough to make up for them however. This is one part of the catholic church that I don't understand and don't believe.
<adademic answer>Confession is a necessity only for mortal sins to be forgiven (venial sins are forgiven at Communion, provided one is not guilty of mortal sin). However, this is not the only necessity. It is by repentance that our sins are forgiven, and this includes sorrow, desire to change oneself, and confession. If one is unable to feel remorse, it is not required of him, as nothing which is impossible (impossible, not inconvenient) can be required of anyone.</academic answer>

[General Septem]

The Lord says Love , The Lord says kill ,,, I think that perhaps we like to use god {lower case} for our own reasons so that we might ,,,, Wait !! Divine Inspiration !!! ,, The LORD sayeth unto me ,, " Drink , thou , and feast upon the Devilled Eggs , and stoats , and orang-utangs , and Emus ,,,,"
Again I don't follow you, Comrade.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

<adademic answer>Confession is a necessity only for mortal sins to be forgiven (venial sins are forgiven at Communion, provided one is not guilty of mortal sin). However, this is not the only necessity. It is by repentance that our sins are forgiven, and this includes sorrow, desire to change oneself, and confession. If one is unable to feel remorse, it is not required of him, as nothing which is impossible (impossible, not inconvenient) can be required of anyone.</academic answer>

A much better definition, be it accurate. However, this is not at all the way that it is viewed, at least by the general American idiot. I would also argue that you would have to somehow prove to the lord that you have changed your ways for the better, but this is something that cannot be monitored and concluded upon by us imperfect humans.

[General Septem]

A much better definition, be it accurate. However, this is not at all the way that it is viewed, at least by the general American idiot. I would also argue that you would have to somehow prove to the lord that you have changed your ways for the better, but this is something that cannot be monitored and concluded upon by us imperfect humans.
Well general American idiots get in a lot of people's ways a lot. That's exactly what I mean about nobody really hating the Catholic Church but only what they wrongly think it is. As for proving to God that you've changed, why would you have to? He knows everything; God doesn't need to put people on probation.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Well general American idiots get in a lot of people's ways a lot. That's exactly what I mean about nobody really hating the Catholic Church but only what they wrongly think it is. As for proving to God that you've changed, why would you have to? He knows everything; God doesn't need to put people on probation.

If god truly does know everything, then the proof is nothing more than changing, it's still proving it to him. But it just may be that god does not know everything. I'm not trying to take anything away from him, just pointing out that this is a belief that has been held and initiated by people who were also sure that the world was flat and the center of the universe. Again, I'm not saying that you're wrong, just asking you to look at the possibilities in the event that you may be wrong.

[General Septem]

If god truly does know everything, then the proof is nothing more than changing, it's still proving it to him. But it just may be that god does not know everything. I'm not trying to take anything away from him, just pointing out that this is a belief that has been held and initiated by people who were also sure that the world was flat and the center of the universe. Again, I'm not saying that you're wrong, just asking you to look at the possibilities in the event that you may be wrong.
Well God created everything, and he is all powerful, so it's only natural that He knows everything. Why shouldn't He?

About the whole Earth being flat and at the center of the universe bit, that's never been against Catholic Church teaching; that's a falicy.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Well God created everything, and he is all powerful, so it's only natural that He knows everything. Why shouldn't He?

About the whole Earth being flat and at the center of the universe bit, that's never been against Catholic Church teaching; that's a falicy.

Maybe even god is unable to read our innermost selves, that which makes us who we are and points us to do either right or wrong. Saying that he knows everything would be equivalent to saying that he knows not only past and present to perfection, but future also, taking away any free will. You are making biased conclusions.

I never said that the Earth's position or structure was a part of Catholic Church teaching. Just that the same people who wrote the laws and beliefs of the Catholic Church believed these truths to also be self evident. Our understanding of the universe is still changing and improving. You don't need to hold so strictly to the way things were put together in the past. A stronger person is one who allows the truths to reveal themselves than the one who refuses to let go of the truths that he created.

[General Septem]

Saying that he knows everything would be equivalent to saying that he knows not only past and present to perfection, but future also, taking away any free will. You are making biased conclusions.

How would that interfere with free will?


I never said that the Earth's position or structure was a part of Catholic Church teaching. Just that the same people who wrote the laws and beliefs of the Catholic Church believed these truths to also be self evident. Our understanding of the universe is still changing and improving.

You can't make a comparison, though, between believing God knows everything and believing the world to be flat. One deals with the spiritual world and the other deals with the physical world. Atheists back then thought the world was flat too.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

How would that interfere with free will?

If everything that is going to happen is known, then there is no possibility for it to happen any other way. This rejects the possibility for free will, if the future is already written then you don't have any choice over what you will do, some higher power has already made the choice.



You can't make a comparison, though, between believing God knows everything and believing the world to be flat. One deals with the spiritual world and the other deals with the physical world. Atheists back then thought the world was flat too.

I'm not trying to compare the two as equal. I'm pointing out that these beliefs were written by people with less knowledge than what we have today. The latter belief has been proven wrong, the former has nothing more than scripture and your personal beliefs to support it. Scripture isn't fact, it's works of literacy by people from long before our own existance. Just open your minds to the possibilities and ask, what if? From doing this, I've realized that it is extreme arogance to accept the religion you were born into as the one and true religion, at least without any study of all the others. Why do people kill for their religion if they are no more certain it is right than their adversaries?

Think large.

[General Septem]

If everything that is going to happen is known, then there is no possibility for it to happen any other way. This rejects the possibility for free will, if the future is already written then you don't have any choice over what you will do, some higher power has already made the choice.

Ah, but just because the future is predetermined doesn't mean God made these choices. For us, on this earth, the future does not yet exist. We create the future. But in Heaven, time does not exist, not in the way we think of it anyway. From God's point of view, we've already made all of our decisions.

Think of the past. You can't change the past, can you? But you certainly made the decisions you made. It's kind of like that.

God can interfere with free will, by the way. He has the power. But doing so would go against his nature, so he doesn't and won't.


Why do people kill for their religion if they are no more certain it is right than their adversaries?

As a Catholic, I'm fairly certain that no other religion can claim to have been initiated by their soul's redeemer. Jesus started Catholicism when He told Peter that "upon this rock I will build by Church". We've had some lunatic Popes, but oddly enough in all their reign not a single one of them changed the Church's doctrine for the worse. Why do you suppose that is? And what's wrong with killing, anyway?

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Ah, but just because the future is predetermined doesn't mean God made these choices. For us, on this earth, the future does not yet exist. We create the future. But in Heaven, time does not exist, not in the way we think of it anyway. From God's point of view, we've already made all of our decisions.

Think of the past. You can't change the past, can you? But you certainly made the decisions you made. It's kind of like that.

God can interfere with free will, by the way. He has the power. But doing so would go against his nature, so he doesn't and won't.

This may be, but it is a very concentrated opinion of what god is. It may or may not be true. You are certain that it is, but why? Ask yourself questions like this one, and don't be afraid of an answer that is different from what you've been taught.




We've had some lunatic Popes, but oddly enough in all their reign not a single one of them changed the Church's doctrine for the worse. Why do you suppose that is? And what's wrong with killing, anyway?

For one, these popes are elected by the highest most respected of the Catholic Church, who in turn recieve their positions in a similar manner. It is a good system that almost eliminates the possibility of change for the worse. Yet I don't know for certain that it has never happened.

As far as killing, well you've been one person who appeared more against it than I. Killing is wrong because it is taking a human's life away instead of improving it. How does one person know that he deserves to live and someone else does not? This takes us right back to the entire arogance thing. Why should you beleive that the only religion that you've been exposed to the way it was intended, (from a very early age) just happens to be the one and only acceptable religion? Worth killing for?? How do you know that your god wants this person dead? Too many questions that are only answered by raising many more.

[General Septem]

This may be, but it is a very concentrated opinion of what god is. It may or may not be true. You are certain that it is, but why? Ask yourself questions like this one, and don't be afraid of an answer that is different from what you've been taught.

Why? Because it simply doesn't make sense to me that God is all-powerful, able to create the entire universe, yet unable to do a certain thing, especially something as simple as knowing what we're thinking, feeling, and fantisizing in. All it would take even on an entirely physical level is to observe the electrochemical impulses going through our brains. I mean, shit, if the fibs can read our mind, there's no reason God shouldn't be able to. What about all the prophesies that have come true?


For one, these popes are elected by the highest most respected of the Catholic Church, who in turn recieve their positions in a similar manner. It is a good system that almost eliminates the possibility of change for the worse. Yet I don't know for certain that it has never happened.

Yes, it is a good system, but we've had less than trustworthy Popes. That's just a historical fact right there. But it's also a historical fact that none of these Popes ever screwed up our beliefs. Why would a Pope have relationships with many women yet not change the Church's doctrine to allow what he was doing? All he needed to do was change the doctrine and all of a sudden what he was doing would be right. Yet for some reason, he didn't. Someone or something prevented him.


As far as killing, well you've been one person who appeared more against it than I. Killing is wrong because it is taking a human's life away instead of improving it. How does one person know that he deserves to live and someone else does not? This takes us right back to the entire arogance thing. Why should you beleive that the only religion that you've been exposed to the way it was intended, (from a very early age) just happens to be the one and only acceptable religion? Worth killing for?? How do you know that your god wants this person dead? Too many questions that are only answered by raising many more.

Murder is obviously wrong. But deaths in war are inevitable. Killing in self defence can be inevitable. That's what I mean about killing not necessarily being wrong.

[GuitarLegend]

About that dinosaur remark... i actually believe that we probably will be killed off sometime in future. Look at how we've completely destroyed our world... global warming, pollution, ozone holes... humans have really screwed over the world, and nature seems to have a way of getting rid of those that threaten it.

And although i have my doubts about religion - like everyone else - i believe that there must be something that designed this world, whether or not its the christian God, i dont know. because everything is far too complex - humans, the earth, the seemingly clockwork way things in nature happen - for it all to be an accident.

[General Septem]

RE: About that dinosaur remark... i actually believe that we probably will be killed off sometime in future. Look at how we've completely destroyed our world... global warming, pollution, ozone holes... humans have really screwed over the world, and nature seems to have a way of getting rid of those that threaten it.

Well look at it this way. A lot of people think that Revelation is a prediction of what is to come. But look at it this way. A lot of people think 666, which is six hundred sixty six, not three sixes, is a reference to Emperor Nero. Nero was Hitler's predecessor; only he killed early Christians rather than Jews. Nero's "mark", which he displayed in his thoughts and actions (or as commonly poetically referred to, forehead and right palm), was his persecution of Christians. But more generally, it was his lack of love and in fact hatred for his neighbor and for God. Remember - all the laws in Catholicism are based on both "love thy neighbor as yourself" and "love God with all your heart, soul, and mind" (I don't actually think Jesus made that up as a lot of people believe, I think he was quoting Scripture, but I could be wrong). The Mark of the Beast, displayed on one's forehead or palm - in other words, one's thoughts or actions, is not loving your neighbor as yourself and not loving God with all your heart soul and mind.

Therefore, the Mark of the Beast is sin, or more specifically, mortal sin, since venial sins don't sever one's relationship with God. It's what got us cast out of Paradise and it is now destroying the already dismal world we live in. Revelation isn't how the world will be destroyed, it's how the world is already being destroyed and how the world has been in the process of being destroyed since the fall of Adam and Eve.

Just look at where we are now. It used to be that when you bought something, it was built like a tank. 75-year old power tools are still being used today. Do you think a brand new lathe will still work 75 years from now? Maybe if you spent five thousand dollars on it. But that's top-of-the-line equipment. A 75-year old lathe being used today probably wasn't top of the line; it was probably just a common tool. But it was built like a tank.

What about housing? As you probably know, a house is a 2x4 frame which is skinned on the outside by plywood. On the plywood goes your siding and whatever underlayment you've got underneath the siding. And the roof is likewise plywood, which is covered in tar paper and shingles. But nowadays they're not using plywood; they're using OSB. That's bullshit! I could piss on a panel of OSB and ruin it. I've even heard of houses that are only skinned on the outside by insulating foam. What the fuck? Someone can break into your house with a butter knife! Seriously, all you'd have to cut through is the siding, insulating foam board, pull out the fiberglass insulation, and then cut through the drywall. If you can't do that with a butter knife, you can certainly do that with a switch blade, and freedom knows every piece of trash and his brother's got one of those.

Why is everything the world makes turning to crap? Because it's cheaper than building everything well. There are houses today that are hundreds of years old. You think the average house today could withstand hundreds of years? Doubtful, and certainly not without a ton of maintenance.

Even nature itself is bitching out on us. Wood nowadays has changed. The most skilled person alive today couldn't build a Stradivarius because the wood that the original Strads used isn't the same as it is today. The grain is looser and more irregular. Try ripping apart an old house and compare the studs in that wall with a stud you buy today. The old stud is a lot harder and stronger. This is probably due to what we're doing to the environment. See what I mean? The technology gets better and better, but the people's attitudes get worse and worse. I would consider myself a pretty righteous guy, relatively speaking. But there's no way I would even get away with half of the things I do - let alone be considered righteous - by the Jews of 2000 years ago. Let's just face the facts here. The world has been destroying itself since its creation, and we're the ones destroying it.

[hkdbadreligion]

They do. Its called The New Testement. The old testement WAS for the jewish stuff!
then why the hell do bibles have the "old testement"? Dumbass.
Amen to GS.

[General Septem]

then why the hell do bibles have the "old testement"? Dumbass.
I feel like a broken record. Because it is still relevant, dumbass.

[Boy_Scout]

"Hey assholes...listen to what you are saying....GOD really did a great job on creating all you people."
He did do a great job in creating us ALL even Atheists

"First with getto azz whanabe gangster and oh lets no forget mister analyze everyfuckingthing...."
Yes he made everyone perfectly, with you the dirty mouth and mister under analyze

"listen if you want to analyze anybodys shit become a fucking physican...."
Well, maybe one day one of these people will become a physican and analyze you.
And if you have to let "shit" come out of your body----let it not be out of your mouth


otherwise get off his nuts.
Whose?

"Its his way of thinking or couping with the ultimate truth...that you live to die and become worm food."
It is all part of Gods great world.

"Plain and simple....enjoy it."
I hope we all will to tell you the truth.

"Thats the FUCKIN truth.357"

We shall all know for sure when we die.

[Boy_Scout]

There has never been a war without some sort of religon or belief of who is right and who is wrong.

Well, everyone seems to be caught up on wwII so i will spill something out about that real quick------I really do not believe that an American who is helping terrorist is not an American, even though it might say it on paper. And so I really do not believe that if you are a mass serial killer and are out killing everyone that you are really Christian because you know, "Christian," means christ like and killing is not that. It also says that war is caused because there is some sort of religious arguement, Hitler killed catholics, Hitler was a practicing catholic-----what was the religious arguemen? Maybe it was over whose priest was most boring!

Secondly, The Civil War was NOT fought over religion, the Mexican War was not fought over religion, The Revolutionary War was not fought over religion, the French and Indian war was not over relgion.

Was WWI? I am not sure about that, but i thought it was over some assination.

And this war that we are in now is not really over religion. The U.S. did not go over to Iraq to kick Muslim butt, we went over there to kick Terrorist butt because they blew up the world trade center, unless the Terrorist are a new religion we are not fighting over that. So, have fun

[Boy_Scout]

Atheist, I have a question for you. Do you find anything about this world beautiful?


Do you find anything about art or music beautiful?

If you find both of them beautiful, is it just that is just so happened that noone was in control of the earth?

Beauty, I think, has to have someone to control it. So, I believe like the artist controls the painting, God controls the earth. Not what happens on earth, just the original beauty, the artist cannot really what the viewers do to the painting once it is done, God cannot control what we do to the earth.


Secondly, have you never heard of all the Emily Rose stuff, they over exagerate in the movie but there is stuff that happens like that. It has been proven, is that just bogus?

And I am sure you all hear about those odd stories where the woman has level four cancer, the lady prays and the cancer just dissappears without surgery and never again returns. Is that just bull hockey?

What about the stories of the crying Virgin Mother Statues? They have all been proven to be true. Have they not?

How about the stories where the person dies in the operating room and comes back to life, then tells everybody that they met God. Etc ETC. That couldnt possibly be true that was all just a dream while they were medically dead. Thats it!

I am not making this up guys, just google it and you can find sources on it.

If there was not a God then are we wasting our lives? Maybe we should just go out and kill the people we do not like? Is that what you are saying? Jesus died a painful death for no reason at all?

Were all the Saints Crazy? Was Pope John Paul the II Crazy? Is Billy Graham Crazy?

I bet you are the same kind of people that would say something along the lines of Boy Scouts should be allowed to be Atheist. Do you? Well, if you do please let me know, I have some good stuff on that already.

[Nobody]

Even your argument has no logic, thats like turning around and saying that because we havent proved that bigfoot doesnt exist it means he does and in the same breath just because you cant prove it doesnt exist does not make it less of a fact like the tooth fairy or santa. It seems to me that you have nothing in life to comfort you than the hiprocracy of religion and its immoral beliefs. Why dont you just face the facts that you are born you live then you die. Your childlike need to justify your existence through the belief of a higher power amuses me. Grow a set of your own and take responsibility of your own misdeminas.
( I've got a yard of dick, a bucket of balls, and enough hair on my ass to weave a FUCKING Indian blanket), So don't assume that I'm one of you're fucking BOY'S. You ever see a BOY put a RUBBER on with a tire tool? NO! That isn't my saying.I wish it was. That would be killer. But you on the other hand, need to GROW a SET of YOUR own. You throw shit out there for people to speculate on. And that leads me to believe, that you've got the balls of a STUD FIELD MOUSE. Go Piss Up A Rope

[Nobody]

DUMBASS! FOR SOMEONE THAT PROFESSES TO HAVE BEEN A PREACHER. And you ask retorical questions,about something you should have had enough knowlege in,before you were ever given the title. DUMASS in deed!

[Boy_Scout]

Now then Atheist, you are so extremely smart, when did people start believing in God and stuff in the first place? They did not just make it up that is impossible with all the stuff about god talking to Moses ect. It did not just happen from nowhere and even if Moses was a Crazy man How is it that it has now grown into one of the largest religions in the world. There are more Christians that Atheist.

[Boy_Scout]

( I've got a yard of dick, a bucket of balls, and enough hair on my ass to weave a FUCKING Indian blanket), So don't assume that I'm one of you're fucking BOY'S. You ever see a BOY put a RUBBER on with a tire tool? NO! That isn't my saying.I wish it was. That would be killer. But you on the other hand, need to GROW a SET of YOUR own. You throw shit out there for people to speculate on. And that leads me to believe, that you've got the balls of a STUD FIELD MOUSE. Go Piss Up A Rope
This is so .......profound It made me think of alot of stuff...:rolleyes:

[Boy_Scout]

Originally Posted by hillbill
Even your argument has no logic, thats like turning around and saying that because we havent proved that bigfoot doesnt exist it means he does and in the same breath just because you cant prove it doesnt exist does not make it less of a fact like the tooth fairy or santa.

This is very true hillbill, you are exactly right. We cannot possibly prove that Big foot is real or the tooth fairy or santa, but new things are being discoverecd every day. There are alot more animals that are known today than there were in the 1800s but that does not mean that they were not there in the 1800s does it? NO.

It seems to me that you have nothing in life to comfort you than the hiprocracy of religion and its immoral beliefs.

Yes, because not killing is very immoral along with respecting your mom and dad and not stealing. And yes we have something in life to comfort us, God, God is not religion belief in him is. So, we do have moral beliefs and we have comfort.


Why dont you just face the facts that you are born you live then you die.
Yes, you do, but then there is the eternallife up in heaven,

Your childlike need to justify your existence through the belief of a higher power amuses me.
What is your belief in our existence> Did everything just fall into place? Something higher than you must have created you even if it was not God.

Grow a set of your own and take responsibility of your own misdeminas.
Grow a set of what? And we do take responsibility for our actions and we ask for forgivness of them.

[hkdbadreligion]

Who the hell are you calling Atheist?

[Nobody]

Who the hell are you calling Atheist?
If you don't believe in GOD, then what would you prefer?

[beelzebub]

Now then Atheist, you are so extremely smart, when did people start believing in God and stuff in the first place?

When they started wondering how everything happened. So they described it the best way they could. Now we know better.

They did not just make it up that is impossible with all the stuff about god talking to Moses ect. It did not just happen from nowhere and even if Moses was a Crazy man

There is no evidence of a world wise flood. There is no evidence of the creation of the sequence of organismal creation as mentioned in Genesis. There are MANY misconceptions, misinterpretations and outright lies in the bible. So what’s the truth?

How is it that it has now grown into one of the largest religions in the world. There are more Christians that Atheist.

This is a stupid reason to believe in God. You said one of the largest. Well perhaps we should look at the other religions as just a viable. Hinduism, Buddhism and Islam are also major players. Which one? And BTW Buddhism does not have a god.

[this_is_bullshit]

First of all, Boy Scout, is a tard, second, yea, there is proof of a flood, & they have also found a petrified vessel that they believe (according to Biblical description & location) to be the Ark.

They have found many other things as well, look into it before posting your blather.

[hkdbadreligion]

But you cant prove that it wasnt planted there or that any of the other evidence isnt fake.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

But you cant prove that it wasnt planted there or that any of the other evidence isnt fake.

For that matter, how do you prove that any of your evidence on any argument isn't fake?

[General Septem]

A lot of people are saying that Noah's ark probably wasn't a global flood. The word translated "earth" is usually translated "land" in the rest of the Bible. You see, the whole Mesopotamian plain could've been flooded and the judgment would've been global because that's the only place people were at the time. Seven of each animal would not have been enough to repopulate the world, and wouldn't have fit in the ark. But if it was just the mesopotamian plain, then it would've worked fine.

[beelzebub]

First of all, Boy Scout, is a tard, second, yea, there is proof of a flood, & they have also found a petrified vessel that they believe (according to Biblical description & location) to be the Ark.

They have found many other things as well, look into it before posting your blather.

First of all there is NO geological evidence of a world wide flood. Second there isn't enough water to have a world wide flood (and there is evidence to support this). Second how the hell were all the organisms gathered on board? You have to be a complete fool or totally ignorant to believe in this.

I do agree that Boy Scout is a tard though...

But on the lighter side: Why this_is_bullshit did you remove your "Boom Head Shot" pic and replace it with more titty pics?

[General Septem]

RE: First of all there is NO geological evidence of a world wide flood. Second there isn't enough water to have a world wide flood (and there is evidence to support this). Second how the hell were all the organisms gathered on board? You have to be a complete fool or totally ignorant to believe in this.

Because it probably wasn't a world-wide flood, only localized to the Mesopotamian plain (read my earlier post).

RE: But on the lighter side: Why this_is_bullshit did you remove your "Boom Head Shot" pic and replace it with more titty pics?

Those are the same titty pics he's had from before; he simply removed the other pics. Being straight, I notice things like this. :D

[hkdbadreligion]

titties, wet, petrified wood, repopulate? I like what I hear.

[beelzebub]

titties, wet, petrified wood, repopulate? I like what I hear.

Who would expect different from a hormone crazed teenager?

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Who would expect different from a hormone crazed teenager?


About the same that we expect from a flaming homosexual.

[hkdbadreligion]

Or a perverted 40 year old man who hangs out behind the junior high.

[beelzebub]

About the same that we expect from a flaming homosexual.

"flaming homosexual" Is that akin to Baking Jew?

[General Septem]

"flaming homosexual" Is that akin to Baking Jew?
Are you saying Jews are gay?

[hkdbadreligion]

No... he's not. Because... If he was... he'd be dead.

[General Septem]

No... he's not. Because... If he was... he'd be dead.
Are you Jewish?

[hkdbadreligion]

Maybe... Who wants to know?

[General Septem]

Maybe... Who wants to know?
Well why would 'bubba be dead if he called Jews gay?

[hkdbadreligion]

false accusations.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

So now you Jews are killing people for making false accusations? When did this start? It had to be pretty recently, because plenty of false accusations about YOU PEOPLE are made on a daily basis, but I haven't heard anything about killings for them yet. Maybe a new Jewish Mafia has just formed??

[hkdbadreligion]

Yes... it has.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

In that case I'd like to speak with the Don, I have a favor I need to ask of him....

[Paisleyspeaker]

Okay even if you don't believe in a god , something caused the big bang. Out of nothingness came light, and after some fits and starts us. For the faithfull it's hard to think of religion as bad, and the desire to reject the idea of killing in the name of God is natural. But unfortunaly not grounded in reality. Plenty of killing has been done in the name of God, ( Crusades guys?) but it's not like God signed a waiver saying it was okay to use his name, or that he wanted the killing done.
And Hitler was miles away from being a practicing catholic, I don't even think he counts as a lapsed catholic either. And I think it's not that far off from the truth that ones of the reasons wwII was started was a pogrom against wealthy Jews, but nothing is that clear cut.
And to the homeboy, grow up and go back to school, you obviously missed a great deal.

[General Septem]

What was so bad about the Cusades? We were trying to get our land back.

[Paisleyspeaker]

Bad publicity
Saladin made Richard the Lion Hearted look like a monster( although it is also true to say that Richard made Richard look like a monster) And why then did they kill the christians who already lived there?
And what about the crusades in the languadoc in France against the Cathars? How was that your land?

[General Septem]

Collateral damage, or perhaps for treason. And France probably attacked first. All of the crusades were either to get back land or in counterattacks.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Bad publicity
Saladin made Richard the Lion Hearted look like a monster( although it is also true to say that Richard made Richard look like a monster) And why then did they kill the christians who already lived there?
And what about the crusades in the languadoc in France against the Cathars? How was that your land?

Land only belongs to whoever fights for it the hardest. It was "his" land because "he" wanted it more than anyone else!

[Paisleyspeaker]

Oh General Nosering,
what a good little sheep you are.
Were you eating freedom fries while you were typing? The Cathars didn't attack first, they just had the audacity to disagree with the Catholic church on the nature of Jesus. Of course some yahoos would say they had the holy grail , but lets keep this in the realm of reality.
And since when did the city of Jersalem and the land around it belong to the European Aristocracy? The whole king of the Holy Land thing was just a power grab that the faithfull were duped into playing along with. To be getting something back implies intiial ownership. And I know that Peter was told to found a church, but was he told that that land was his? It was givin to the people of Abraham, the jews, and since we as Christians don't have to follow levitical laws because we are not Jewish, doesn't that mean the lands that belongs to Jewish people aren't ours. I don't expect to change your mind, just illuminate the topic.:D

[General Septem]

RE: Oh General Nosering,

That's "Septem", not "septum". "Septem" is Latin for "seven". "Septum" does not even mean nosering anyway; it means a divider between two cavities.

RE: Were you eating freedom fries while you were typing? The Cathars didn't attack first, they just had the audacity to disagree with the Catholic church on the nature of Jesus.

Just like the Soviet Union had the audacity to disagree with us on whether Capitolism was better than Communism. Or like the middle east has the audacity to disagree with us on how to run our country.

RE: And since when did the city of Jersalem and the land around it belong to the European Aristocracy?

It didn't. It belonged to the people of God.

RE: The whole king of the Holy Land thing was just a power grab that the faithfull were duped into playing along with. To be getting something back implies intiial ownership. And I know that Peter was told to found a church, but was he told that that land was his? It was givin to the people of Abraham, the jews, and since we as Christians don't have to follow levitical laws because we are not Jewish, doesn't that mean the lands that belongs to Jewish people aren't ours.

Christianity is supposed to be an extention of Judaism. The Jews merely chose to disagree with us as to whether or not Jesus was the Son of God. It could be said that they were the ones that broke off from us, by not following God's guidance of the Church. So in that matter, they forced us out of our own land.

[Paisleyspeaker]

little one, the piercing that goes through that divider is also named for it. mea culpa on the confusion em um . But the people of god were not the ones who ended up in power after the crusades. the ideals and the realityies don't match By admitting the mistakes made by the church, and dealing honestly with those mistakes you will ultimatly create a healthier , stronger church. By kneejerk defense instead of critical thought, you are doing no more than moving your pediphile priest around. Better to follow the example of John Paul , a holy man. Who moved the church forward by acknowledging the mistakes of the past and by apologizing removing the baggage related and inproving international opinion of an institution you obviously hold dear.:D

[General Septem]

That's why I say possibly misguided. I don't care enough about history to say one way or the other that certain members of the Church were misguided or not in their actions. But the fact remins, if they were misguided and their actions were truely wrong, you can't blame the Church for it.

I believe "septum ring" is the term for the ring. Either way, it's not "Septem" and not even pronounced the same, though similar.

[Paisleyspeaker]

no blame, as long as they learn from their mistakes. Which on the whole they do seem to be doing.

[boatzo]

Do you know whats been the nuber one killer for over hundreds of years??? Religon has clamed many victims AND many casulties, but people just want to support it with blood.There has never been a war without some sort of religon or belief of who is right and who is wrong.Well I have never meet a man who didn't do an evil or "sinful" thing....but all you have to do is ask for forgivness....bullshit.But yet in the eyes of the victim God wants punishment. Thats why there is no real religon and if there is well.....see you in hell. Because I know that for everything I do I do it because it feels right and noone can tell me otherwise.Of course I don't do anything to affect someone else just my self.
Its all purro petho

Thats the Truth.357

Deuteronomy 5:17 You shall not murder.
Christianity isn't at fault for all the death. Man's evil nature is the number one killer.
There is more to forgiveness than just asking for it, you must repent and love the Lord Jesus Christ with all your heart.
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God...the wages of sin is death.
Act 4:12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.
John 5:24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word (Jesus) and believes Him whos sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over form death to life."
Mark 11:26 But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father who is in heaven forgive your sins.
John 8:47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is because you do not belong to God.
I DON'T MIND IF YOU HATE ME CHRIST SAID YOU WOULD IN JOHN 15:18-27
EXAMINE YOUR HEART BECAUSE I DO NOT HATE YOU.

[hkdbadreligion]

Okay even if you don't believe in a god , something caused the big bang. Out of nothingness came light, and after some fits and starts us. For the faithfull it's hard to think of religion as bad, and the desire to reject the idea of killing in the name of God is natural. But unfortunaly not grounded in reality. Plenty of killing has been done in the name of God, ( Crusades guys?) but it's not like God signed a waiver saying it was okay to use his name, or that he wanted the killing done.
And Hitler was miles away from being a practicing catholic, I don't even think he counts as a lapsed catholic either. And I think it's not that far off from the truth that ones of the reasons wwII was started was a pogrom against wealthy Jews, but nothing is that clear cut.
And to the homeboy, grow up and go back to school, you obviously missed a great deal.
Just take the lazy way out and believe in God. Don't bother trying to find the real answer.

[General Septem]

Just take the lazy way out and don't believe in God because then you'd have to do the right thing and that would be just too inconvenient. Don't bother trying to face truth.

Fixed.



Did I mention how much a lot of forum rules irritate me?

[hkdbadreligion]

I dont think so... please tell us.

[General Septem]

Simply put: Your message is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least ten characters.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If it's a problem, just use some nonsense characters ~ make a design or something:cool:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Paisleyspeaker]

Bad religion ( I love that group) I am a fan of science, but science can only go so far. I understand and believe in the big bang and evolution.. But they come to a point that they can't explain anymore. All they have is questions themselves. That point, that can be called God. I don't think it's the lazy way out. It is really hard in today's society to hold on to a belief in God. The pure piety of a few hundred years would be considered simple, and probably a mental illness today. So tell me honey child, what is this great truth I am not facing?

[hkdbadreligion]

You're not taking the time to study everything for yourself, coming up with your own theories and proving or disproving them. If there were a god, why would he speak directly to us up until a certain point then let us all go to hell forever after? And why would he send his "son" to tell all the people that god was wrong and the rules have changed?

[General Septem]

RE: If there were a god, why would he speak directly to us up until a certain point then let us all go to hell forever after?

To what are you referring to by that?

RE: And why would he send his "son" to tell all the people that god was wrong and the rules have changed?

I would say you've misunderstood Christ. Jesus didn't say God was wrong nor that the rules changed. He even said He didn't come here to abolish but to fulfill.

[Paisleyspeaker]

hkd, good questions, I don't know why there was such a profound presence , and the nothing for so long. I'm not sure any of the mojor religions have it right. I am still looking for the "truth" and am starting to believe truth is subjective. I am not a lock step thinker by any means. But there are things that science has yet to explain, and I guess that I am a romanitic, I want for there to be magic. Though I certianly can't prove it. I don't expect anyone else to see it the same way I do.

[tommygun]

[QUOTE=truth.357]Of course I don't do anything to affect someone else just my self.[QUOTE=truth.357]

Thats one of the things religion teaches against (at least Christianity), I think that if you did tried to make positive actions which will positively affect other people then you will be living to a higher degree then you are now.

Also you might want to check your history, WW1 and WW2, for example, weren't to do with religion, they were simply because of the society and the time and because of the politics at the time. I agree with you that many thousands of wars have occured throughout history because of religion, but all of the big modern wars (Cold War included) have primarilly been not about religion. So what does that say about societies which are increasingly becoming secular? If you dislike religion based on the argument that it has been responsible for every war throughout history you haven't done your research and you are merely making outrageous claims which could hurt other people.

And for the record, the fact that you come on here and post implies that you do things for other people, or because of other people.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Also you might want to check your history, WW1 and WW2, for example, weren't to do with religion, they were simply because of the society and the time and because of the politics at the time.


WWII was largely a religious issue. Hitler started killing off JEWS because of their religion. It could be argued that Hitler was starting his own religion, which was supposed to become the world wide religion in time. This religion is the blond haired, white skinned, christian blue bloods that called themselves Natzis. I believe that the Neo Natzis of today are a form of religion. Granted, this wasn't the only reason for WWII, but it is the best known reason and arguably the leading reason for it.

[General Septem]

Hitler didn't just kill Jews. He killed anyone who wasn't like him.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Hitler didn't just kill Jews. He killed anyone who wasn't like him....

...or didn't like him. He was still focusing largely on the Jews to attack, for the reason of religion. Killing anyone who isn't like you because you're trying to build a "superior" race still sounds resoundingly like a religious cause.

[General Septem]

Well it is probably a religion, but it's a morally defficient one.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

By your morals sure, but how many times do I have to tell you that your morals aren't the only ones that exist and they aren't neccessarily the best ones out there.:rolleyes:

[General Septem]

Hitler killed people for no good reason. Obviously this is just wrong.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

It was a good reason to him, not to you. Your morals were different. You see it as wrong, but if he had won the war we'd be hailing Hitler now as the greatest prophet the world has ever known. Just like if we'd lost the civil war, Abraham Lincoln would be viewed as the biggest terrorist the country has ever faced, and we'd all still be living knowing that owning slaves is just fine because it's the norm. The outcomes of our history and our learnings from it form our morals.

[General Septem]

That's true, the line between genius and insanity is measured only by success.

[Paisleyspeaker]

We may think Hitler didn't have reasons, but I am sure he thought he did. And the Jews were targeted as a group, but they weren't targeted for religious reasons. Germany had fallen flat on it's face after the WWI and the treaty of Versei. The only people who were doing well were the Jews who were isolationist, their good fortune was not going to add up to the good fortune of others. They kept their wealth to themselves. They were eventually demonized, and their property taken in the name of nationalism. I suppose you could argue that natioanlism is like a religioin , but it is not what most people think of it.

[tommygun]

In response to 'brains_behind-operation' and his reply to my earlier post:

As the guy above me said Hitler did not target the Jews for their religious belief at all, just because they were the ones who did well straight after World War One.

Hitler did not create his own religion. A religion, as thought by our friend who started this thread and as replied to by me, invloves some form of diety or supernatural power. Whatever Hitler was or believed, he did not believe he was God. What he created was an ideology, much the same as the ideology created by the allies which stated that they were the free world fighting for freedom.

I agree that there must have been SOME religious aspect of WW2, but it was hardly the leading factor.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Hitler did not create his own religion. A religion, as thought by our friend who started this thread and as replied to by me, invloves some form of diety or supernatural power.


I disagree. Part of the Nazi creed was Christianity. Blue Eyed, Blond Haired, White Skinned Christians are the type of people that the Nazis claimed were the superior race. So it could be claimed that the Nazi religion was a subset of Christianity. Just like Lutherans, Baptists, and Mormons.

[tommygun]

I can see where your coming from, but I still don't think that what Hitler believed and portrayed was a religion. I think, as History books describe it, it was an ideology. I can see we are never going to agree on this, and I think in many ways the line between Religion and Ideology is a thin one. We would ahve to look further into the History books to decide this and, to be honest, I can't really be bothered. Ha.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

As far as religions go, they are ideaologies. A religion is always some form of ideaology, but an ideaology isn't always a religion. Since Hitler's ideaology required christianity it must also be a religion.

[tommygun]

Ha! Okay then, religions are Ideologies, but I still don't think Hitler's ideology was a Religion, and I've studied the area quite a bit. They didn't follow religious doctrines or anything like that, and just saying they were Christians doesn't mean it is a new religion, it just means that they thought Christians were superior. And I don't think that Hitler's ideology was the main reason for WW2 either, it was one of them, but definitely not the main one. The main one that really kickstarted the war was lebenstraum.

[General Septem]

Maybe we wouldn't even think murder was wrong if it wasn't for Christianity. By the sound of it, before Moses brought the Ten Commandments from the mountain, people were probably killing each other left and right.

[tommygun]

Interesting thought... I guess its just what you believe, I believe that God endowed us all with a morality and thats why we think that murder is wrong. If you follow from this then logically they would have thought murder was wrong before the ten commandments. Just what you believe really...

[justanotherredneckgirl]

Hi guys, I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents. This is the oldest debate in the world. Is there a God? Why does he do this? Why does he do that? No one will ever change anyones opinion about anything concerning religion. Only God can help you change your mind. I do have one thing to say though. If there is not a God then why does EVERYONE pray to him when there's a tragedy? In a car wreck, plane crash, anything, no one ever says, "Buddha, help us all." Just a little point i thought I'd make. Hope y'all have a blessed day, Rev. Stephanie.

[Paisleyspeaker]

Murder was wrong before Moses went up the mountian. And the faiths that existed before also acknowledge this. All faiths seem to recognize that not all killing is murder.

[beelzebub]

If there is not a God then why does EVERYONE pray to him when there's a tragedy? In a car wreck, plane crash, anything, no one ever says, "Buddha, help us all."

Stephanie, you say this because you are definitely myopic and possibly stupid. Not everyone does what you say in other countries and I personally do not do this in this country. And just because people do this, it is not definitive proof of a "GOD" it is cultural and learned behavior.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

If there is not a God then why does EVERYONE pray to him when there's a tragedy?


Simple answer, because they believe that there IS a god. Just because a large group of people believe something doesn't make it fact. That's why Columbus didn't fall off the edge of the world.

Also, as beelzebub pointed out, everyone does not pray to god when there's a tragedy. Those who believe in god pray to him when there's a tragedy. I'm sure that those who believe in Budhism would pray to Budha at these times. Those who don't believe just shit their pants when the time comes and say that they fell into a mud puddle. :D

[justanotherredneckgirl]

Stephanie, you say this because you are definitely myopic and possibly stupid. Not everyone does what you say in other countries and I personally do not do this in this country. And just because people do this, it is not definitive proof of a "GOD" it is cultural and learned behavior.

Hi there, I can assure you I'm not stupid. I am a Reverend and I am also a college graduate. But, more importantly than that I have faith. If we believe in nothing then our lives are empty. Also, There's no reason for name calling, I never called anyone stupid because of their beliefs. I was simply making a point. I am interested in your opinions and your point of view. However, please refrain from Judging people when you make those points. God bless you, Reverend Stephanie.

[beelzebub]

Hi there, I can assure you I'm not stupid. I am a Reverend and I am also a college graduate.

Shit... a reverend? A college grad? I guess I am just shit out of luck. You must be stupid if you think that has weight! Who gives a flying fuck you pretentious ass?


But, more importantly than that I have faith. If we believe in nothing then our lives are empty.

I believe in many things that your kind would call nothing. My life is very full and I have no need for any superstition to take its place.


Also, There's no reason for name calling, I never called anyone stupid because of their beliefs. I was simply making a point.

And your point was stupid. Ok I will give you ignorant.


I am interested in your opinions and your point of view. However, please refrain from Judging people when you make those points.

I will try and PRAISE JESA!

[Paisleyspeaker]

...
those who believe in Budhism would pray to Budha at these times. ... :D
Sweetheart, Buddism is a philosophy, and Budda a mere philosopher. You wouldn't pray to him. You might meditate on what he would do.
I understand that it is not central to the point you are making. But it irks me when people get this wrong. There are people who follow a religion and encorperate aspects of Buddist philosophy that don't conflict, and ease their journey.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Well I don't have any real life happenings with Budhists so all I have to go off of is TV and I have seen people pray to Budha on TV. Sorry that they got it wrong.

[tommygun]

beelzebub, you really are an asshole, just leave her alone you don't need to get personal. And for the record, she sounds better educated than you, 'I'll give you ignorant' - what the hell does that mean?

[hkdbadreligion]

Hi there, I can assure you I'm not stupid. I am a Reverend and I am also a college graduate. But, more importantly than that I have faith. If we believe in nothing then our lives are empty. Also, There's no reason for name calling, I never called anyone stupid because of their beliefs. I was simply making a point. I am interested in your opinions and your point of view. However, please refrain from Judging people when you make those points. God bless you, Reverend Stephanie.
Goddammit! She's here to try and spread the disease unto us. Why is it that our lives would be nothing if we dont believe in anything? We're here for a short time and I'm gonna make the best of a bad situation. You've gotta be Damned to be Free.

[tommygun]

'The best of a bad situation'? It just may be that this place is frequented by idiots. I do not wish to lower my intelligence so I think I'll leave you to it. I hope you make the best of a bad situation you retard.

[Paisleyspeaker]

Spreading disease..? You seem to be the one with the problem. Why does religion anger you so much? Did a priest drop you on your head? Why do the beliefs of others get your panties in such a twist? Buzz questioned a statement about everyone praying. A statment that was simplistic, overreaching, and wrong. There are athiest in foxholes. And you obviously believe in something, just not God. Buzz saw there are many things he believes in, things he holds 'sacred', that have nothing to do with religion.

[hkdbadreligion]

I hold nothing sacred nor does religion anger me, just when one tries to spread it on to those who dont 'believe'.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

They have good intentions, and only try to do what they think is right. They don't realize just how strong your convictions are, and believe that if they at least try to help you believe what they believe they are doing something good with their lives. They aren't seeing things from your point of view, but you could be the greater person and see it from theirs, and then politely tell them that you're not interested.

[Nobody]

Simple answer, because they believe that there IS a god. Just because a large group of people believe something doesn't make it fact. That's why Columbus didn't fall off the edge of the world.

Also, as beelzebub pointed out, everyone does not pray to god when there's a tragedy. Those who believe in god pray to him when there's a tragedy. I'm sure that those who believe in Budhism would pray to Budha at these times. Those who don't believe just shit their pants when the time comes and say that they fell into a mud puddle. :D
..........holy shit! That made about as much since, as a turd in the punch bowl! Pedophile! Really! You're blond aren't you?

[Paisleyspeaker]

I hold nothing sacred nor does religion anger me, just when one tries to spread it on to those who dont 'believe'.

Ones faith should be personal. But sharing it and spreading it are diffrent. People think they should share good news. If you found a gas station in town that had premium for $1.50 a gallon you would tell all your friends right? It's like that. Once you say no that should be respected. But no thank you I am not intersted is diffrent than saying God doesn't exist. As far as holding nothing sacred just wait until you have a wife and children and your answer may be diffrent.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

If you found a gas station in town that had premium for $1.50 a gallon you would tell all your friends right?


Watch out with that analogy. Sure you'd go out and share it with your friends, but would you go around knocking on doors telling everybody that you can about it? That's where the problem is percieved. Complete strangers knocking on your door, uninvited, certain that they have the best answer for you. That may not be the way that you see it, but I am rather certain that it is the way that it is seen by most of the people who don't like it.

[General Septem]

Watch out with that analogy. Sure you'd go out and share it with your friends, but would you go around knocking on doors telling everybody that you can about it? That's where the problem is percieved. Complete strangers knocking on your door, uninvited, certain that they have the best answer for you. That may not be the way that you see it, but I am rather certain that it is the way that it is seen by most of the people who don't like it.
Yes but we're not Jehova's Witnesses. :D

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Sorry, but I was getting the idea that the whole Jehova's Witness acts and the sort were what hkd was complaining about.

[Paisleyspeaker]

I am sure HDK hates that type of prosilatizing. Most people don't like their in your face style. But he seems oversensitive to the mention of God.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Maybe, but I've found that it's easier to convince someone to agree with you if you give them the benfit of the doubt.;)

[Paisleyspeaker]

The old adage about the flies and honey is true. But this is a site for debate, and he entered into that debate with vehemence. He has strong opinions and deserves to have them challenged. Just as we do. I think it is funny that despite the faith of some of our compatriots his arguments were often the most venomous.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

I think it is funny that despite the faith of some of our compatriots his arguments were often the most venomous.


He has no faith informing him of rights and wrongs about setting one's tone. If you think about it, your faith guides you to be less "venemous," among other things.

[hkdbadreligion]

Talking about me I see... I believe that most people only believe in god because it was introduced to them when they were infants and has been crammed down their throats since, in almost everything they do. I find things in the bible to be hard to believe... such as incest and the fact that Jesus, "the son of god", came to earth and told the people that many of god's rules have changed.

[General Septem]

On the other hand, a lot of people who are religious today were brought up by non-religious parents. And conversely a lot of Christians have been just dropping out for one reason or another. So I think how you're brought up is a big factor but I think there are other factors as well. As for Jesus changing God's laws, well I think He was misunderstood.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Jesus, "the son of god", came to earth and told the people that many of god's rules have changed.


I always understood it as that He was clarifying God's laws. People had strayed from the initial meaning so much that clarification needed to be done and the people needed to be reminded what God actually wants.

[General Septem]

I always understood it as that He was clarifying God's laws. People had strayed from the initial meaning so much that clarification needed to be done and the people needed to be reminded what God actually wants.
Bingo. I'm glad you're around, you word a lot of things more simply than I seem to be able to.

[hkdbadreligion]

Well, god created the idiots that misinturpreted them. his fault.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Well at least we're on the same page. That's why He sent His son in, to fix his mistake. It may not yet be perfect, but maybe that's what He wants. Why would a perfect being want to see perfection all the time? It would probably really get boring very quickly...

[hkdbadreligion]

Live with perfect and be bored
vs.
Live with fault and be annoyed and go crazy tryin to fix it.

[General Septem]

I think it's more like God created computers but it was up to them to get programming. God created programming, but some leet hax0r corrupted some of it. At some point God created the operating system Catholix (lol Linux, get it) which, when installed in the computers, would automatically connect to the correct servers to get un-hax0red programming. Meanwhile the people using Windows were the ones that misinterpreted everything.

So it's not that God created idiots, it's that He created empty shells that would later be filled. Some people are just still kind of... empty.

[hkdbadreligion]

nice analogy. makes more sense than what we're really talking about

[Paisleyspeaker]

. ...I find things in the bible to be hard to believe... such as incest....

You find that of all things hard to believe? You are funny. The bible is full of inexplicable things and you don't believe in incest? One third of all women and a quarter of men are sexually abused as children. Many by family members.

[hkdbadreligion]

no, the inbred offspring. If an individual and their sibling or cousin were to have a child it would be deformed in some way.

[General Septem]

no, the inbred offspring. If an individual and their sibling or cousin were to have a child it would be deformed in some way.
Not necessarily. What happens is hereditary defficiencies would now be present in both parents. It may be dormant in the parents but since both parents have it they'd give it to the baby. But if Adam and Eve had no genetic defficiency, and their children had none, several generations could pass before any genetic problems started to arise, and by then people would be having children with essentially non-related spouses.

[beelzebub]

Not necessarily. What happens is hereditary defficiencies would now be present in both parents. It may be dormant in the parents but since both parents have it they'd give it to the baby. But if Adam and Eve had no genetic defficiency, and their children had none, several generations could pass before any genetic problems started to arise, and by then people would be having children with essentially non-related spouses.

GS is correct on this. Breeding between close relatives if practiced repeatedly, it often leads to a reduction in genetic diversity, and the accumulation of negative recessive traits. This may result in inbred individuals exibiting reduced health and fitness and lower levels of fertility (called consanguinity depression, inbreeding depression).

So inbreeding even between very genetically healthy individuals often leads to problems. But not always and there are some examples in the animal world to support it.

[General Septem]

That's essentially what I said. >_>

[beelzebub]

That's essentially what I said. >_>

DUHHH I just wanted to add my 2 cents and that is why I said you were correct from the get go.

What!?!?! I can have fun?

[General Septem]

DUHHH I just wanted to add my 2 cents and that is why I said you were correct from the get go.

What!?!?! I can have fun?
Ah, ok. Thanks =D

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Even when you two are completely agreeing with one another you have to fight about it!

[General Septem]

Even when you two are completely agreeing with one another you have to fight about it!
He sounded like he was correcting me. >_>

[beelzebub]

Even when you two are completely agreeing with one another you have to fight about it!


Ha, ha ha haa isn't it terrible?:p

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Ha, ha ha haa isn't it terrible?


YES! It reminds me of the days when my siblings and I were 4 and 5. It didn't matter how equal our arguments were, we always had to prove that we were right and they were both wrong!

[General Septem]

My dad and I have perfected the art of arguing over something we agree on.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

I don't know, I find it hard to believe that anyone could do it any better than you and Bubba.

[General Septem]

Ever seen American chopper? We kind of argue like Paul and Paul Jr. Except not quite to that extreme, and not nearly as often.

[hkdbadreligion]

Yes, but we are not animals. I dont really believe this adam and eve thing really happened. I'm going to need more proof.

[Paisleyspeaker]

The same genetic theory holds for people as well as animals. First as Buzz said the number of negative or flawed recessive traits piles up, then you start to see deformities. It takes generations of constant inbreeding before you start to see deformities, take the European royal families for an example, they could only marry each other because no one was good enough. And there were issues starting to pop up , like Russian price Alexi's hemophilia. But that took a hundred years or more of inbreeding to achieve.

I can't prove the Adam and Eve thing, and have always wondered about that story, because after Cain kills Able and goes off he marries. Well if Adam , Eve, Cain, and Able are the only people , where the hell did Cain find a wife? Also if youdo by the whole bible then there was a second round of global inbreeding after the great Flood. Buit there you start out with a few more bloodlines.

[General Septem]

Cain and Abel weren't Adam and Eve's only children. They probably had a lot of children actually.

[Paisleyspeaker]

So Cain's wife married one of her brothers who killed one of her other brothers? And why did a culture so crazy about geneologies not mention any of the other children?

[General Septem]

Actually it does. Seth to be exact. And we're to assume they had daughters as well, since it would be impossible for their sons to've had children if they hadn't.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

well, why couldn't god have created other people as well to keep the breed going? This fact just may just have been left out or unknown by the people who wrote the beginning.

[General Septem]

Why couldn't He have? He could've. He could've done anything. But He chose to do it the way He did instead. Why? I don't know. Perhaps it has something to do with us all being brothers and sisters. Whatever the reason, it did work.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

You missed the meaning of the question. Let me rephrase. How do we know that it happened exactly one way and not another, since we know God could have had it happen any way he deemed fit?

[General Septem]

You missed the meaning of the question. Let me rephrase. How do we know that it happened exactly one way and not another, since we know God could have had it happen any way he deemed fit?
It's been said that the Book of Genesis was dictated in its entirety to Abraham directly from God on Mount Sinai, and if I'm not mistaken the Catholic Church upholds this tradition (some liberal Christians don't). If this is the case, then the answer is pretty much obvious. But even the books that didn't come directly from God (in the sense that the writer goes to a mountain and sees God personally) were guided by the Holy Spirit, so the answer is still obvious.

[beelzebub]

Actually it does. Seth to be exact. And we're to assume they had daughters as well, since it would be impossible for their sons to've had children if they hadn't.

Once again, answer the question: And why did a culture so crazy about genealogies not mention any of the other children?

According to your myth:
"God" created Adam and Eve who then had children.
Those children then populated the entire world through incest.
The female children, and others, were not mentioned by a culture that was obsessed with genealogy.

[hkdbadreligion]

its sexism. thats why they didnt mention the girls born... or one solution. Even if the children had children there would still be inbreeding and the inbreeding continues. I'm starting to believe more and more in the theory of evolution than anything else. Maybe god was lying to Abrahm about how it all was started and god told him what he did becuase people were too stupid to understand how it really went down. Jesus was a hippy and I know never to trust a hippy.

[General Septem]

They did mention the geneology from Adam to Noah. Why didn't they mention all of Adam and Eve's children? They just didn't. Who cares how obsessed they were with geneology? God chose not to tell them exactly how many kids Adam and Eve had and chose not to tell them all of their names. Why? It's completely unimportant for one. And for another thing, only an idiot would see that Adam and Eve were created and were the only two humans on earth, they had kids, and one of the sons got married, yet not assume that Eve had to have had daughters as well.

Another thing is that the wives are hardly ever mentioned in anyone's geneology. In those days, the Jewish tradition was that the man's name is carried down through the generations. Kind of like the reason why when two people get married, it's the wife that takes her husband's last name, and in fact it's probably the origin of that.

Lastly, like I said, Genesis lists the geneology from Adam to Noah. It's like how the Gospels list the geneology from David to Jesus. They don't list all of David's sons, only the line from David to Jesus.

[hkdbadreligion]

That makes sense. When did last names come into action? does your bible tell you that?

[Paisleyspeaker]

Okay riddle me this batman, you say that the sexist pigs didn't count or record womens names. But this same group and place in the modern world, judge whether you will get Isreali citizenship by the race/religion of the mother? Your father could be a Jewish as the day is long, but if your Mom is Goy, you can't have citizenship.

[General Septem]

Okay riddle me this batman, you say that the sexist pigs didn't count or record womens names. But this same group and place in the modern world, judge whether you will get Isreali citizenship by the race/religion of the mother? Your father could be a Jewish as the day is long, but if your Mom is Goy, you can't have citizenship.
If those people were easy to understand, we wouldn't be at war with them.

[General Septem]

That makes sense. When did last names come into action? does your bible tell you that?
No, probably because last names came into effect later or in a different area than where the Bible was written, and also because the Bible is not a history book.

[beelzebub]

its sexism. thats why they didnt mention the girls born... or one solution. Even if the children had children there would still be inbreeding and the inbreeding continues.

True. In order to believe that Adam & Eve were the first humans and their children populated the Earth is to accept that they HAD TO HAVE COMMITTED INCEST. For "god" to promote incest is a contradiction to the old and New Testament teachings.


I'm starting to believe more and more in the theory of evolution than anything else.

Please remember that Evolution does not say anything about religion. It is a description of the changes of life on Earth from its conception.

Of course Evolution occurred even if you do believe in a "god". For one to refuse to believe in Evolution is only showing that he/she rejects science and reasoning to embrace ignorance.


Maybe god was lying to Abraham about how it all was started

I don’t think that Abraham wrote the book of Genesis, but I could be wrong.

[General Septem]

True. In order to believe that Adam & Eve were the first humans and their children populated the Earth is to accept that they HAD TO HAVE COMMITTED INCEST. For "god" to promote incest is a contradiction to the old and New Testament teachings.
First of all, "God" is a proper noun. For you to misspell a proper noun by not capitalizing it is a contradiction to the teachings of third grade grammar.

Second of all, God did not say incest was a sin until long after the first generation. Also, back then, there was no choice, which nullifies its status as a mortal sin.

[placemeperson]

Dear World...

Wow, this is getting FAR too complicated for such a simple situation. Sorry I gotta be the one to say it.

Does God exist? Or for that matter, does ANYTHING beyond this scope of space/time exist? I don't care about what you think or what SEEMS to be... I don't care about your personal feelings, I don't care for how millions of people do it, I care for only ONE thing, and that's called the TRUTH. And anybody that's into religion, I don't mean to be the one to break it to yah, but you believe in an invisible man. You've been handed some book or taught by your parents that they KNOW for "certain" that some GOD exists or some first principle exists. You attend a church surrounded by people preaching lessons of REDICULOUS simplicity and IGNORANCE. THINK for YOURSELF, HAVE I, in ANY detailed and SPECIFIC way, INTERACTED with GOD? OMG WAIT he CANT be seen! Cuz he's GOD, and hes in a magical place called heaven, YAH, that's it! Heheh... if you HAVE seen him then maybe check what kinda medication you were on OR whether or not your experience was TRULY credible. It's called careful reasoning. LEARN it and you won't be oblivious ;>

"To TRULY follow God, you gotta follow your heart, taking the leap of faith." Stop for a minute and LISTEN to that argument. We all had the EXACT same thing back in like grade two about who's toy was cooler than the other ("MINE is cooler cuz that's the way it is..."). Just tone that down for a minute and take a step back into what I like to call a NORMAL and RATIONAL world. What do YOU know? Well, you're here, like a lotta us. You breathe, you eat, you sleep, and you follow your desires. You have some idea of what makes you happy etc. Essentially, you are what many of us call a person. You don't know for certain that anybody around you even HAS a soul. Are you immortal? Are you some heavenly soal? Hehe... although I'd like to share your blissful stupidity, for lack of a better word, there's NO immediate connection between what YOU know and ANY god. Religion is belief WITHOUT any logical guidance. It's a poor self-justified cause (Meaning that you do what it says because it makes the SIMPLE claim that "That's the way it is..."). Stop making this anymore complicated than it REALLY is, don't claim you're immortal, NO there's NO wine and cheese and heavenly gates of absolute CERTAINTY, NO your PARENTS don't even know for certain that there's a god. They're just siding in some REDICULOUS argument that's JUST AS SILLY as arguning whether or not the BOOGIEMAN exists! If you wanna talk about silly things, I'll do it with yah sometime when we're BOTH on crack ;>

So grab a beer and sit with me. This is what reality is. No I don't know what's gonna happen to me when I die for certain. I don't know if there's a god, I don't CARE about whether or not dinosaurs HAD a soal. I look at a fellow human with respect and dignity most of the time (personally, I feel that it's beneficial to work with others). And I watch the news thinking "OMG, just invite santa clause and every other mythological creature and they'll ALL be happy." Merry Christmas everyone. And in the spirit of things, Happy Religion.

JetDog,
FORMER believer in God (And i DIDN'T give up cuz I wasn't happy... I stopped believing cuz I realized that I was being a damn fool!).

PS. Check out commedian George Carlin's Rant on religion. It sums up the argument pretty well for something that's supposed to be funny.

[General Septem]

PS. Check out commedian George Carlin's Rant on religion. It sums up the argument pretty well for something that's supposed to be funny.
George Carlin is a total dumbass when it comes to religion. I've heard his little rant; he has a lot of uneducated ideas about religion and a lot of blanket assumptions that don't really hold any water. His other stuff is extremely funny, but the things he says about religion are so uneducated and so uninformed it's a wonder people actually take it seriously. Actually, it's supposed to be funny to begin with, so just by default it's a wonder people take it seriously.

[beelzebub]

First of all, "God" is a proper noun. For you to misspell a proper noun by not capitalizing it is a contradiction to the teachings of third grade grammar.

First of all, YOU Christians decided to make god a proper noun because you want everyone to be reverent. I choose to be as irreverent as I want. Therefore

god god god god god god ______ god god god god god god ______ god god god god god god



Second of all, God did not say incest was a sin until long after the first generation. Also, back then, there was no choice, which nullifies its status as a mortal sin.

That’s why the concept of "god" is so fucking stupid: He says to brother and sisters please go and fuck up a storm but after a few generations he will smite brother with brimstone for poking his sister’s hole?

When are you and the rest of you zealots going to give up the "BIG PAPPA" idea called god?

[placemeperson]

George Carlin is a total dumbass when it comes to religion. I've heard his little rant; he has a lot of uneducated ideas about religion and a lot of blanket assumptions that don't really hold any water. His other stuff is extremely funny, but the things he says about religion are so uneducated and so uninformed it's a wonder people actually take it seriously. Actually, it's supposed to be funny to begin with, so just by default it's a wonder people take it seriously.

Wow dude thanks for taking george carlin as the summit of my article and using it to bash me. Really... lol. Means a lot. You DO know that I wrote about 20x MORE about religion in general. That was intended to be a light humor at the end. I take it you were either shocked by the rest or in awe of *HOW GOOD IT WAS* =D

And Carlin DID imply that people were being gullible for believing in a God at all. I seem to remember it going something like this: "That there's an invisible man... watching everything you DO, everything you say, and he has a list, of TEN things he doesn't want you to do. And if you don't, he will send you to a place of fire, and burning, and torchure... but he loves you! =D" No harm intended bud. THAT was the point I was really trying to pin.

Dog.

[General Septem]

Wow dude thanks for taking george carlin as the summit of my article and using it to bash me. Really... lol. Means a lot. You DO know that I wrote about 20x MORE about religion in general. That was intended to be a light humor at the end. I take it you were either shocked by the rest or in awe of *HOW GOOD IT WAS* =D
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/TLDR

[General Septem]

First of all, YOU Christians decided to make god a proper noun because you want everyone to be reverent. I choose to be as irreverent as I want.

No, it's because "God" is God's name. God is a proper noun when referring to God Himself, whereas it is just "god" when talking about, for example, the Greek gods. In other words, God the name and god the noun are two diferent words.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/God
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/god


That’s why the concept of "god" is so fucking stupid: He says to brother and sisters please go and fuck up a storm but after a few generations he will smite brother with brimstone for poking his sister’s hole?

Yeah, that's the general idea. God wanted the planet populated obviously, and the children of Adam and Eve had no choice but to have children by each other. If you have no choice, it is not a sin. Plus, God is all-powerful. If He wants to allow something but later change it, that is His decision, and when He said "be fruitful and multiply", God was allowing for that. Once society could be fruitful (not fruity) and multiply without having kids by each other's siblings, they should do so, which for all we know they did.

[placemeperson]

Yeah, that's the general idea. God wanted the planet populated obviously, and the children of Adam and Eve had no choice but to have children by each other. If you have no choice, it is not a sin. Plus, God is all-powerful. If He wants to allow something but later change it, that is His decision, and when He said "be fruitful and multiply", God was allowing for that. Once society could be fruitful (not fruity) and multiply without having kids by each other's siblings, they should do so, which for all we know they did.

Or we could all just be fruitcakes and believe in god. =D

[General Septem]

And Carlin DID imply that people were being gullible for believing in a God at all. I seem to remember it going something like this: "That there's an invisible man... watching everything you DO, everything you say, and he has a list, of TEN things he doesn't want you to do. And if you don't, he will send you to a place of fire, and burning, and torchure... but he loves you! =D" No harm intended bud. THAT was the point I was really trying to pin.
That's what I was referring to by uneducated and uninformed.

Anybody who dismisses others' belief in God as just an "invisible man" is not only an idiot but so small and so narrow that he can't even admit the possibility of other planes of existance. It's almost as if he got his entire knowledge of Christianity from some hobo on the street who said, "I believe in God," and Carlin, never having heard of such a thing, asked who God was, and the hobo explained, "well, God's a spirit in the sky that loves everyone and sends people to Hell for doing bad things." Now all of a sudden, Carlin is an expert on religion and shallow assholes who can't form their own opinion all of a sudden flock to him like he's Albert fucking Einstein.

[beelzebub]

No, it's because "God" is God's name.

Right GS, again I don’t see "god" as a name at all. It is only a concept or an idea. Therefore I will not use it as a proper noun no matter how unconventional it is.


Yeah, that's the general idea. God wanted the planet populated obviously, and the children of Adam and Eve had no choice but to have children by each other.

I was not talking about Adam & Eve. I was referring to their offspring (e.g. Brother and unmentioned sisters) fucking each other.

If you want to worship a god that advocates incest, by all means, feel free to do so. I personally think that is a crock of shit.


If you have no choice, it is not a sin. Plus, God is all-powerful. If He wants to allow something but later change it, that is His decision, and when He said "be fruitful and multiply", God was allowing for that. Once society could be fruitful (not fruity) and multiply without having kids by each other's siblings, they should do so, which for all we know they did

[General Septem]

Right GS, again I don’t see "god" as a name at all. It is only a concept or an idea. Therefore I will not use it as a proper noun no matter how unconventional it is.

Do you refer to the Greek god Zeus as "zeus" then? No, because that's grammatically incorrect, and would make you look like a dumbass.


I was not talking about Adam & Eve. I was referring to their offspring (e.g. Brother and unmentioned sisters) fucking each other.

How about actually reading my post this time:


Yeah, that's the general idea. God wanted the planet populated obviously, and the children of Adam and Eve had no choice but to have children by each other.


If you want to worship a god that advocates incest, by all means, feel free to do so. I personally think that is a crock of shit.

But like I said, God doesn't advocate incest. He only made an exception for the children of Adam and Eve.

[placemeperson]

That's what I was referring to by uneducated and uninformed.

Anybody who dismisses others' belief in God as just an "invisible man" is not only an idiot but so small and so narrow that he can't even admit the possibility of other planes of existance. It's almost as if he got his entire knowledge of Christianity from some hobo on the street who said, "I believe in God," and Carlin, never having heard of such a thing, asked who God was, and the hobo explained, "well, God's a spirit in the sky that loves everyone and sends people to Hell for doing bad things." Now all of a sudden, Carlin is an expert on religion and shallow assholes who can't form their own opinion all of a sudden flock to him like he's Albert fucking Einstein.

Dude for a senior member you've got a lotta nerve against someone as harmless as a commedian. I take it you're a believer, and I'm sorry if I offend you. I never said that anything beyond our "plane of existence" is impossible. I just said it's uncertain. I would like to add that when you're talking about the infinite plausible conceptions of what CAN exist BEYOND our dimension, it's very primitive-minded to conclude "Oah yah, I trust the idea of god and heaven, cuz it says its right, and it says that I'm a good person if I do what it tells me." I'd like to call on what I wrote in an earlier article:


It's a poor self-justified cause (Meaning that you do what it says because it makes the SIMPLE claim that "That's the way it is...")

Go ahead and shoot that down as ME being simple-minded, or incapable of grasping your great faith and knowledge. If that's where you stand I would probably ask you what you're hanging on to so tightly?

[General Septem]

Dude for a senior member you've got a lotta nerve against someone as harmless as a commedian.

I don't hate the guy at all actually. Like I said I love most of his other stuff. I was just pointing out why his ideas on religion were so primitive and limited.


I take it you're a believer, and I'm sorry if I offend you. I never said that anything beyond our "plane of existence" is impossible. I just said it's uncertain. I would like to add that when you're talking about the infinite plausible conceptions of what CAN exist BEYOND our dimension, it's very primitive-minded to conclude...

Why do I believe one possibility (Catholicism) out of the other infinite possibilities? A lot of reasons. From a logical standpoint, if a plane of existance exists beyond what is percievable by physical means, which created us, then it's not inconcievable to assume that beings within this plane of existance have the ability to have encoded us with a sense of being able to know that this plane of existance exists without any scientific evidence. Now I'm describing what we call "faith". If God created us, then it's only logical to assume He'd want to give us some way of knowing Him.

[beelzebub]

Do you refer to the Greek god Zeus as "zeus" then? No, because that's grammatically incorrect, and would make you look like a dumbass.

No, I don’t dislike the Greek gods so I allow them to be proper nouns. I do this to be specifically irreverent to the Judeo-Christian religion's god.


But like I said, God doesn't advocate incest. He only made an exception for the children of Adam and Eve.

That makes no sense. I was talking about the sons and daughters of Adam & Eve fucking and making incestuous children, who then fucked making more incestuous children and so on and so on.

Hey, since god gave them an "Incest Voucher" I wonder if Adam helped the process along by screwing his own daughters? Wonder if mommy did the same? Gives new meaning to the phrase "Mommies Boy"

[beelzebub]

GE 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness.
GE 1:14-19 The sun (which separates night and day) wasn't created until the fourth day.

GE 1:26-27 Man and woman were created at the same time.
GE 2:7, 21-22 Man was created first, woman sometime later.

GE 1:28 God encourages reproduction.
LE 12:1-8 God requires purification rites following childbirth which, in effect, makes childbirth a sin. (Note: The period for purification following the birth of a daughter is twice that for a son.)

GE 1:31 God was pleased with his creation.
GE 6:5-6 God was not pleased with his creation.
(Note: That God should be displeased is inconsistent with the concept of omniscience.)

GE 2:17 Adam was to die the very day that he ate the forbidden fruit.
GE 5:5 Adam lived 930 years.

GE 2:15-17, 3:4-6 It is wrong to want to be able to tell good from evil.
HE 5:13-14 It is immature to be unable to tell good from evil.

GE 4:4-5 God prefers Abel's offering and has no regard for Cain's.
2CH 19:7, AC 10:34, RO 2:11 God shows no partiality. He treats all alike.

GE 4:15, DT 32:19-27, IS 34:8 God is a vengeful god.
EX 15:3, IS 42:13, HE 12:29 God is a warrior. God is a consuming fire.
EX 20:5, 34:14, DT 4:24, 5:9, 6:15, 29:20, 32:21 God is a jealous god.
LE 26:7-8, NU 31:17-18, DT 20:16-17, JS 10:40, JG 14:19, EZ 9:5-7 The Spirit of God is (sometimes) murder and killing.
NU 25:3-4, DT 6:15, 9:7-8, 29:20, 32:21, PS 7:11, 78:49, JE 4:8, 17:4, 32:30-31, ZP 2:2 God is angry. His anger is sometimes fierce.
2SA 22:7-8 (KJV) "I called to the Lord; ... he heard my voice; ... The earth trembled and quaked, ... because he was angry. Smoke came from his nostrils. Consuming fire came from his mouth, burning coals blazed out of it."
EZ 6:12, NA 1:2, 6 God is jealous and furious. He reserves wrath for, and takes revenge on, his enemies. "... who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? His fury is poured out like fire, and rocks are thrown down by him."
2CO 13:11, 14, 1JN 4:8, 16 God is love.
GA 5:22-23 The fruit of the Spirit of God is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

GE 4:16 Cain went away (or out) from the presence of the Lord.
JE 23:23-24 A man cannot hide from God. God fills heaven and earth.

GE 6:4 There were Nephilim (giants) before the Flood.
GE 7:21 All creatures other than Noah and his clan were annihilated by the Flood.
NU 13:33 There were Nephilim after the Flood.

GE 6:19-22, 7:8-9, 7:14-16 Two of each kind are to be taken, and are taken, aboard Noah's Ark.
GE 7:2-5 Seven pairs of some kinds are to be taken (and are taken) aboard the Ark.

[placemeperson]

Why do I believe one possibility (Catholicism) out of the other infinite possibilities? A lot of reasons. From a logical standpoint, if a plane of existance exists beyond what is percievable by physical means, which created us, then it's not inconcievable to assume that beings within this plane of existance have the ability to have encoded us with a sense of being able to know that this plane of existance exists without any scientific evidence. Now I'm describing what we call "faith". If God created us, then it's only logical to assume He'd want to give us some way of knowing Him.

Ooo boy. Heh. That's a mouthful. I think thats a record breaking run on hhehe. Anyways, yah that argument is pretty standard if you've ever taken philosophy. Unfortunately, most philosophers say its a load of crap :eek: . You kinda stretched it a little too, but lets see if I can help you out. It goes something like this:
"Since our universe came into existence, then there must be a being that facilitated the creation of our universe when it DID come into existence. And since it DID come into existence, then there MUST be a god.that created it" The problem with that argument is that there still is an assumption. You assume that there IS a being in the first place that created the universe. You assume you know the axioms for the existence of this universe (Aka... a universe requires a being that created it?). When really, NOBODY knows what a universe requires for its existence. And until you CAN justify that assumptiom, your logic is invalid. As for him giving us a way of knowing him, well, how well do you know god?

[General Septem]

No, I don’t dislike the Greek gods so I allow them to be proper nouns. I do this to be specifically irreverent to the Judeo-Christian religion's god.

So whether or not someone's name is a proper noun depends on whether or not you like them? Funny I don't remember that being taught when I learned my grammar, but as a teacher you'd know better than I would.

Or maybe you accept God as His name but you just refuse to capitalize it out of disrespect, in which case I think your third grade students are rubbing off on you.


That makes no sense. I was talking about the sons and daughters of Adam & Eve fucking and making incestuous children, who then fucked making more incestuous children and so on and so on.

We have no evidence to indicate that anyone beyond the generation of the children of Adam and Eve had children with each other. Beyond that they could've just been cousins, and then second cousins, and then after that they're basically not related. The children of Adam and Eve only had kids with each other because they had to.


Hey, since god gave them an "Incest Voucher" I wonder if Adam helped the process along by screwing his own daughters? Wonder if mommy did the same? Gives new meaning to the phrase "Mommies Boy"

No, because Adam and Eve were married to each other, and breaking their marriage vows would not be necessary to the reproduction of the human race. Siblings is one thing, but mother and son or father and daughter is another.

[beelzebub]

So whether or not someone's name is a proper noun depends on whether or not you like them? Funny I don't remember that being taught when I learned my grammar, but as a teacher you'd know better than I would.

Yeah, I guess I would. Just like: Because you don’t even hold one college degree makes you better at critiquing other people’s choices and styles.


Or maybe you accept God as His name but you just refuse to capitalize it out of disrespect, in which case I think your third grade students are rubbing off on you.

Uh, that’s exactly why I do it. And that is far cleverer then any 3rd grade act. We are at least up to 7th grade defiance!


We have no evidence to indicate that anyone beyond the generation of the children of Adam and Eve had children with each other. Beyond that they could've just been cousins, and then second cousins, and then after that they're basically not related. The children of Adam and Eve only had kids with each other because they had to.

You have no evidence FOR ANYTHING concerning the creation myths.


No, because Adam and Eve were married to each other, and breaking their marriage vows would not be necessary to the reproduction of the human race. Siblings is one thing, but mother and son or father and daughter is another.

But god let sissy and brother fuck! I though it was no holes barred! After all they needed to crank out the chillins. Hell, they only had the next 6 thousand years to populate the Middle East, Europe, Africa, Asia, North & South America and don’t forget Australia, and all the islands. Shit! I bet while Eve was on Cain, Adam was on one of his daughters! You know, tag team style! They must have fucked like rabbits for 900 years.

[General Septem]

Yeah, I guess I would. Just like: Because you don’t even hold one college degree makes you better at critiquing other people’s choices and styles.

Yeah, but regardless of what kind of diplomas you wipe your ass on, the difference between nouns and proper nouns is not personal preference.


Uh, that’s exactly why I do it. And that is far cleverer then any 3rd grade act. We are at least up to 7th grade defiance!

What's wrong, did God not buy you that Linkin Park CD you prayed for?


You have no evidence FOR ANYTHING concerning the creation myths.

I was talking about Biblical evidence.


But god let sissy and brother fuck! I though it was no holes barred! After all they needed to crank out the chillins. Hell, they only had the next 6 thousand years to populate the Middle East, Europe, Africa, Asia, North & South America and don’t forget Australia, and all the islands. Shit! I bet while Eve was on Cain, Adam was on one of his daughters! You know, tag team style! They must have fucked like rabbits for 900 years.

That makes completely no sense whatsoever and is completely childish and stupid.

[beelzebub]

That makes completely no sense whatsoever and is completely childish and stupid.

Thats exactly how I feel about your faith in your myth.

But come on,... didn't you think it was a bit funny? I laughed a lot as I wrote it.:D

[General Septem]

Thats exactly how I feel about your faith in your myth.

But come on,... didn't you think it was a bit funny? I laughed a lot as I wrote it.:D
No, it sounded like an angry rant by some emo kid.

[beelzebub]

No, it sounded like an angry rant by some emo kid.

HUMMMMMM Am I like an EMO Kid?
Had to look that one up: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=emo+kid

One who rejects "pop culture" and joins the counter-culture realm. - yeah, perhaps.

Usually has ideas contrary to popular opinion and seeks to gain a better understanding of life through artistic venues. - yes, but I use science

May appear depressed, have black or red hair, and dress in a way that is contrary to what is popular. - nope

Thrift stores, art, coffee shops, underground music, and poetry are usually of great interest. - nope

Contrary to popular opinion, though an emo kid may seem depressed, within their own group there is an element of deep understanding and friendship. - yes, in a way.

Emo kids see the world as beautiful, but its inhabitants as lost and depressing. - HELL YEAH!


Ok so you are like 66% on the money there GS. I guess we will call you a conformist. You know one of the many that have fallen into the popular doctrine. Zombies, clones, big brother.

[General Septem]

I was referring more to the whole angsty and depressed thing. How am I a conformist?

[beelzebub]

I was referring more to the whole angsty and depressed thing. How am I a conformist?

I have a lot of irritation with believers. They seem very illogical and ignorant.

depressed - nope.

You are a conformist because you tow the popular religious line.

[General Septem]

depressed - nope.

Just angsty then. Either way, refusing to capitalize God's name because you wish to be disrespectful is an emo thing to do.


You are a conformist because you tow the popular religious line.

I only follow Catholicism because it is the religion I have found to be true. In most other aspects I'm quite different from most people, and in fact Catholicism is not really all that popular either. More popular is "cafeteria Catholicism".

[General Septem]

GE 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness.
GE 1:14-19 The sun (which separates night and day) wasn't created until the fourth day.

So obviously creating the sun and creating light are two different things. The sun is merely one thing that produces light. It is not light itself.


GE 1:26-27 Man and woman were created at the same time.
GE 2:7, 21-22 Man was created first, woman sometime later.

27 says, "male and female created he them." It says this happened in the same day but does not say when within that day. Later verses go back and clarify and go into further detail.


GE 1:28 God encourages reproduction.
LE 12:1-8 God requires purification rites following childbirth which, in effect, makes childbirth a sin. (Note: The period for purification following the birth of a daughter is twice that for a son.)

The purification rights were probably a health issue, just as the regulations regarding what foods one can eat were. Old Jewish ritual laws that have no effect since Jesus died on the cross.


GE 1:31 God was pleased with his creation.
GE 6:5-6 God was not pleased with his creation.
(Note: That God should be displeased is inconsistent with the concept of omniscience.)

God was still pleased with His creation, but not with what it had turned itself into. So He purged it and started fresh again.


GE 2:17 Adam was to die the very day that he ate the forbidden fruit.
GE 5:5 Adam lived 930 years.

God told Adam he will die if he ate the fruit. He did not say when. Had he not eaten the fruit he would have lived forever in Paradise.


GE 2:15-17, 3:4-6 It is wrong to want to be able to tell good from evil.
HE 5:13-14 It is immature to be unable to tell good from evil.

"Knowledge" of good and evil does not necessarily mean merely being able to tell them from each other. Plus, once we "knew" good and evil, there's no excuse for not knowing.


GE 4:4-5 God prefers Abel's offering and has no regard for Cain's.
2CH 19:7, AC 10:34, RO 2:11 God shows no partiality. He treats all alike.

So?


GE 4:15, DT 32:19-27, IS 34:8 God is a vengeful god.
EX 15:3, IS 42:13, HE 12:29 God is a warrior. God is a consuming fire.
EX 20:5, 34:14, DT 4:24, 5:9, 6:15, 29:20, 32:21 God is a jealous god.
LE 26:7-8, NU 31:17-18, DT 20:16-17, JS 10:40, JG 14:19, EZ 9:5-7 The Spirit of God is (sometimes) murder and killing.
NU 25:3-4, DT 6:15, 9:7-8, 29:20, 32:21, PS 7:11, 78:49, JE 4:8, 17:4, 32:30-31, ZP 2:2 God is angry. His anger is sometimes fierce.
2SA 22:7-8 (KJV) "I called to the Lord; ... he heard my voice; ... The earth trembled and quaked, ... because he was angry. Smoke came from his nostrils. Consuming fire came from his mouth, burning coals blazed out of it."
EZ 6:12, NA 1:2, 6 God is jealous and furious. He reserves wrath for, and takes revenge on, his enemies. "... who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? His fury is poured out like fire, and rocks are thrown down by him."
2CO 13:11, 14, 1JN 4:8, 16 God is love.
GA 5:22-23 The fruit of the Spirit of God is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

I don't see the contradiction there. God loves us all but He is also just, therefore He cannot just let people do whatever they want without reprocussions. Go and tell a judge, "yes, I murdered hundreds of people and raped countless thousands more, but I know you won't put me in jail because I know you are good." The judge will say, "You are right that I am good, and that's the very reason I have to put you away. I can't let you go on without any kind of reprocussion, and I certainly can't let you keep on doing this shit."


GE 4:16 Cain went away (or out) from the presence of the Lord.
JE 23:23-24 A man cannot hide from God. God fills heaven and earth.

God is not present in Hell. Hell is the complete lack of the presense of God and all the goodness that flows from God. Cain went to Nod after this, though, so more likely the passage was referring to the physical "apparition" as it were, of God.


GE 6:4 There were Nephilim (giants) before the Flood.
GE 7:21 All creatures other than Noah and his clan were annihilated by the Flood.
NU 13:33 There were Nephilim after the Flood.

Most likely they were either a race very tall humans, or they inhabited areas other than the Mesopotamian plain when the flood came.


GE 6:19-22, 7:8-9, 7:14-16 Two of each kind are to be taken, and are taken, aboard Noah's Ark.
GE 7:2-5 Seven pairs of some kinds are to be taken (and are taken) aboard the Ark.

Two of each kind does not necessarily mean only two. The exact number doesn't really matter.

[beelzebub]

Just angsty then. Either way, refusing to capitalize God's name because you wish to be disrespectful is an emo thing to do.

No, I do it really to just irritate people like you. It’s just for fun.


I only follow Catholicism because it is the religion I have found to be true. In most other aspects I'm quite different from most people, and in fact Catholicism is not really all that popular either. More popular is "cafeteria Catholicism".

Either way you have conformed. And I know that you fervently believe in your trinity. and the afterlife and all the ideas that make you feel as if your life has meaning. You go to the church, bow and curtsy in front of the cross and eat his flesh and drink his blood to commune with him. You say your hail Mary’s and read your bible so you can find his path for you. You believe that whole Big Papa view of the universe ……………… not because you examined all the religions and had equal representation of their principles and beliefs. You did it because …. Everyone around you did it too.

[General Septem]

You did it because …. Everyone around you did it too.
No, I did it because it's the only religion that makes sense.

[Paisleyspeaker]

No, because Adam and Eve were married to each other, and breaking their marriage vows would not be necessary to the reproduction of the human race. Siblings is one thing, but mother and son or father and daughter is another.

An only slightly related factiod I learned from a friend who grew up on a farm. When you must inbreed animals she says genetically the mother son, and father daughter pairings produce healthier offspring, because each parent provided only half their DNA, but the siblings having the same tow halves(or very, very simular halves) would share more genitic material. Icky but true.

[General Septem]

An only slightly related factiod I learned from a friend who grew up on a farm. When you must inbreed animals she says genetically the mother son, and father daughter pairings produce healthier offspring, because each parent provided only half their DNA, but the siblings having the same tow halves(or very, very simular halves) would share more genitic material. Icky but true.
But it wouldn't necessarily be necessary in the case of Adam and Eve.

[General Septem]

That's another thing. I'm tired of people correlating Catholicism with child abuse. The two are completely unrelated. So a few priests have been accused of child abuse, what does that have to do with the rest of us? How does that have anything to do with the Catholic Church? Besides, only like 1.5% of Catholic priests have been accused of child molestation, which is actually lower than the rates for non-clergy.

[beelzebub]

An only slightly related factiod I learned from a friend who grew up on a farm. When you must inbreed animals she says genetically the mother son, and father daughter pairings produce healthier offspring, because each parent provided only half their DNA, but the siblings having the same tow halves(or very, very simular halves) would share more genitic material. Icky but true.

As compared to what? Brother & Sister or Mother & Father?

I would find that statement highly suspect either way.
Mother & Father combinations would be very good because they would provide new genetic combinations (assuming that they are not related).

Brother & Sister combinations would be just as deleterious as Parent & Offspring combinations because the genetic material is of the same origin.

[Paisleyspeaker]

That's another thing. I'm tired of people correlating Catholicism with child abuse. The two are completely unrelated. So a few priests have been accused of child abuse, what does that have to do with the rest of us? How does that have anything to do with the Catholic Church? Besides, only like 1.5% of Catholic priests have been accused of child molestation, which is actually lower than the rates for non-clergy.
But when the higher ups like Cardinal Law. ignored complaints and simply moved the offending priest to other parishes and gave them a crack at whole new congregations they gave the impression that it was an institution wide problem. Had they just dealt firmly with them to begin with, instead of just sweeping it under the carpet, peoples reactions would be diffrent.

[Paisleyspeaker]

As compared to what? Brother & Sister or Mother & Father?

I would find that statement highly suspect either way.
Mother & Father combinations would be very good because they would provide new genetic combinations (assuming that they are not related).

Brother & Sister combinations would be just as deleterious as Parent & Offspring combinations because the genetic material is of the same origin.


Of course the parent parent match would be the best, but if your trying to populate the world, it would take too ling. My friends logic was that if mom passes on ABC and dad GHI that bro and sis would have ABCGHI and either parent would only have what they passed on. But she isn't a geneticist just the bookkeeping daughter of a farmer.

[hkdbadreligion]

if a parent and an offspring the result would have 75% parent and 25% offspring.