Immigration over HERE

[something]

I would like to here Englands response to this.

You guys can bitch about Mexican immigrants stealing your jobs, but as far as I see, middle easterns not taking jobs and living of wellfare seem sto be just as bad.I guess it's a weak point of this system.

There are refugees from conflicted countries that deserves thoose money, but the problem lays in that they are hard to separate.

5 of 10 dogs are rabid, limited acces of vaccin, should all get it and we run out of it, or should no one of them get it?

So far we play by the non one should get it tactic. If there's a possibility that they do not deserve, we send them back. It's really a bad idea, especially since it doesn't work.

Others then that, I'm not sure exactly what the Netherlands and rest of Europes immigration politics are, and I hope my friend England would clear that out for me.

[hitekredneck]

I would like to here Englands response to this.

You guys can bitch about Mexican immigrants stealing your jobs, but as far as I see, middle easterns not taking jobs and living of wellfare seem sto be just as bad.I guess it's a weak point of this system.

There are refugees from conflicted countries that deserves thoose money, but the problem lays in that they are hard to separate.

5 of 10 dogs are rabid, limited acces of vaccin, should all get it and we run out of it, or should no one of them get it?

So far we play by the non one should get it tactic. If there's a possibility that they do not deserve, we send them back. It's really a bad idea, especially since it doesn't work.

Others then that, I'm not sure exactly what the Netherlands and rest of Europes immigration politics are, and I hope my friend England would clear that out for me.

are you telling me that those refugees deserve money they haven't earned?

[something]

are you telling me that those refugees deserve money they haven't earned?

More like, they deserve help.

[something]

are you telling me that those refugees deserve money they haven't earned?

I mean, they are trying to get jobs, just you don't get to Europe and get a job right of the bat. Then of course they earn their own money.

[England Expects]

Sorry I've not replied on this before Something.

Immigration policy should be uniform throughout Europe.

Anyone coming to the UK that claims asylum has a right to welfare, although their cases are assessed. If they are found to be from a country where they can be returned to safely then we return them. If they refuse to go, they are sent to Belmarsh prison in London, until they change their minds.

Lets be clear. Most of the people that come here want to work, and do work. In my eyes, that's fine. There are many asylum seekers from Iraq, Afghanistan and Somalia working for my company, and we rely on them to do jobs that the native population don't want to do.

The few that come here and just sponge off benefits give the rest a bad name. You're right, the system often fails to root out the idle. I would definitely support tougher measures against asylum seekers that aren't prepared to work, as long as they were implemented across the whole of Europe.

[General Septem]

Anyone coming to the UK that claims asylum has a right to welfare, although their cases are assessed. If they are found to be from a country where they can be returned to safely then we return them. If they refuse to go, they are sent to Belmarsh prison in London, until they change their minds.

So you give illegal pieces of shit the option of sucking off the peoples' taxes, rather than just force them to go back? That doesn't sound right to me.

[hitekredneck]

i'm not bitching about ANYBODY that comes here legally and follows the process to become an american...my complaint is about the people that refuse to integrate themselves LEGALLY and sponge my tax money..my complaint is about people that come here and refuse to learn the language...mostly, my complaint is the lack of enforcement for our laws concerning immigration as well as the lack of enforcement for illegals that break our laws:cool:

[England Expects]

So you give illegal pieces of shit the option of sucking off the peoples' taxes, rather than just force them to go back? That doesn't sound right to me.

Dont confuse illegal immigrants with asylum seekers Gen. Our country offers refuge to those who are fleeing oppression and persecution in their own countries. And rightly so.

Illegal immigrants are deported unless it is unsafe to do so; we dont send people back to places where they maybe tortured or killed, hell, we dont even extradite criminals back to the US if there's a possibility they may face the death penalty.

[Limbo]

hell, we dont even extradite criminals back to the US if there's a possibility they may face the death penalty.

How very politically correct of you guys!:D

[England Expects]

Being politically correct is not the point.

Its just that we dont help other countries carry out things that we believe to be morally wrong.

[hitekredneck]

Being politically correct is not the point.

Its just that we dont help other countries carry out things that we believe to be morally wrong.

is there any instance where you support the death penalty?

[England Expects]

Personally, yes.

In cases where someone is so dangerous, that they would never be allowed back into society.

In cases where there is proof beyond any doubt of something like pre-meditated murder or child rape.

The majority of people in this country dont believe evidence is ever strong or reliable enough to justify taking away someones life though. Too many mistakes have been made in the past.

[General Septem]

Being politically correct is not the point.

Its just that we dont help other countries carry out things that we believe to be morally wrong.

That's OK, because the UK is next after we're done in Iraq. :D

[England Expects]

Cool.

Not in my lifetime then.

[maxtheawesome]

That's OK, because the UK is next after we're done in Iraq. :D

I would vote for Mexico.

[hitekredneck]

Personally, yes.

In cases where someone is so dangerous, that they would never be allowed back into society.

In cases where there is proof beyond any doubt of something like pre-meditated murder or child rape.

The majority of people in this country dont believe evidence is ever strong or reliable enough to justify taking away someones life though. Too many mistakes have been made in the past.

with today's technological advances, we can utilize dna info to positively id the bad guys...lots of cases where the perp had admitted to the crime should have ended at that point, tho some are mentally ill enough to claim a crime they hadn't done...as far as i'm concerned, murder, rape, molestation, all deserve to be penalized by death....theft should be treated as it used to be in the mid-east by chopping off the hand that did the deed...i also admire the policies of public punishment such as the caning in the phillipines...just imagine the side businesses you could create with such a spectacle :D
i also think england should re-introduce the gibbet especially for liberals...they should be hung by the short and curly's til common sense is found:D

[England Expects]

with today's technological advances, we can utilize dna info to positively id the bad guys...lots of cases where the perp had admitted to the crime should have ended at that point, tho some are mentally ill enough to claim a crime they hadn't done...as far as i'm concerned, murder, rape, molestation, all deserve to be penalized by death....theft should be treated as it used to be in the mid-east by chopping off the hand that did the deed...i also admire the policies of public punishment such as the caning in the phillipines...just imagine the side businesses you could create with such a spectacle :D
i also think england should re-introduce the gibbet especially for liberals...they should be hung by the short and curly's til common sense is found:D

Agreed about the technological advances.

You seem to be wanting to take us backwards though Hitek. Chopping off hands for theft? Public punishment? We regard countries like Iran and Afghanistan to be barbaric for carrying out these kind of things. It would be nice to think that we're better than that.

[hitekredneck]

Agreed about the technological advances.

You seem to be wanting to take us backwards though Hitek. Chopping off hands for theft? Public punishment? We regard countries like Iran and Afghanistan to be barbaric for carrying out these kind of things. It would be nice to think that we're better than that.

england, i've never made the claim that i wasn't a barbarian at heart...to me, sweeping all that shit under the rug hasn't done anybody a damned bit of good, crime just continues to grow at a prodigious rate...you show me a better deterrent than the loss of the offending limb (rape would be a good case for this as well) not to mention that the offending criminal would be much less inclined to re-offend?...sorry mang, but i don't see much success in re-habilitation:cool:

[thememan]

i'm not bitching about ANYBODY that comes here legally and follows the process to become an american...my complaint is about the people that refuse to integrate themselves LEGALLY and sponge my tax money..my complaint is about people that come here and refuse to learn the language...mostly, my complaint is the lack of enforcement for our laws concerning immigration as well as the lack of enforcement for illegals that break our laws:cool:

Er... the US has no national language. English is the most commonly used, but it is not the national language, as say, German is in Germany, or French in France.

*whistles and walks away*

[hitekredneck]

Er... the US has no national language. English is the most commonly used, but it is not the national language, as say, German is in Germany, or French in France.

*whistles and walks away*

er...if you're an anglish dude walkin around in the us, you might just notice that we've bastardized it enough to make it our own...
*finding it difficult to whistle with no teeth*

[maxtheawesome]

er...if you're an anglish dude walkin around in the us, you might just notice that we've bastardized it enough to make it our own...
*finding it difficult to whistle with no teeth*

I've always prefered American English above English English and Mexican Spanish.

It just sounds more natural.

Not the soutern-redneck one thou, it just sounds retarded time to time.

[England Expects]

Hitek is right.

The language they speak in the US is not English.

Just kind of a lazy, slack-jawed cousin.

[hitekredneck]

Hitek is right.

The language they speak in the US is not English.

Just kind of a lazy, slack-jawed cousin.

hey, even i have problems understanding people from some parts of this country...but i understand that there's accents and slang for every language that gets "bastardized"

[Loseirdo]

er...if you're an anglish dude walkin around in the us, you might just notice that we've bastardized it enough to make it our own...
*finding it difficult to whistle with no teeth*

If American English is a bastardized form of English, why are we the only ones that manage to speak it without an accent? Unless by "bastardized" you mean "repaired".

[hitekredneck]

If American English is a bastardized form of English, why are we the only ones that manage to speak it without an accent? Unless by "bastardized" you mean "repaired".

well, i guess i mean changed...guess you can say we "fixed" it good, huh? :D

[Loseirdo]

well, i guess i mean changed...guess you can say we "fixed" it good, huh? :D

There's really not a big difference between Standard American English and Standard British English. Both have the same rules and words. The only difference is that I have yet to meet a brit who could speak without his accent.

Of course, both "languages" have their slang. Cockney is to Britain what "Redneck" is to America -- they both have a tendency to sound slack-jawed and lazy. Watch "My Fair Lady" and you'll see what I mean.

[hitekredneck]

There's really not a big difference between Standard American English and Standard British English. Both have the same rules and words. The only difference is that I have yet to meet a brit who could speak without his accent.

Of course, both "languages" have their slang. Cockney is to Britain what "Redneck" is to America -- they both have a tendency to sound slack-jawed and lazy. Watch "My Fair Lady" and you'll see what I mean.

seen it, mang...but careful bout the redneck thang...i can understand all my brudders out there:cool:

[General Septem]

If American English is a bastardized form of English, why are we the only ones that manage to speak it without an accent? Unless by "bastardized" you mean "repaired".

We don't have an accent? Is there really any "neutral" way to speak a language? I mean, I can't say for sure, but I'd imagine that growing up in England, one might think Americans are the ones with accents. Perhaps England can clear this up for us.

[Loseirdo]

We don't have an accent? Is there really any "neutral" way to speak a language? I mean, I can't say for sure, but I'd imagine that growing up in England, one might think Americans are the ones with accents. Perhaps England can clear this up for us.

Everyone I've ever known that spoke with a conventional accent (southern, Jersey, et cetera) has said that I speak with a total absence of accent. Not southern, not western, not midwestern, not British, not Canadian, not anything. I'm not saying that all Americans speak without an accent, I'm saying that more Americans speak without an accent than Brits. Watch anything on TV. You'll be listening to people talk, then as soon as someone starts speaking with an accent, boom, you notice it. I think it is possible to speak without an accent, and I think it's easier for Americans to do so than Brits due to our great diversity of accents (we are exposed to far more than one) and the fact that more people speak without one already. I grew up with neither of my parents speaking with a southern accent or even using southern dialect. The word "hey" was unfamiliar to me until I met my neighbor. I eventually picked up some of the dialect, but I never picked up the accent.

I think that, in order to speak without an accent, we have to pronounce every letter and every word exactly as the English language dictates. The Brits created the language (not true, actually -- English is an amalgamation of Norman French and Anglo-Saxon), but they don't always follow all the rules. A common example of this would be their tendency to never pronounce the letter "h" at the beginning of words, which leads to them saying things like "This is an history of England," which is totally wrong (it should be a history). We've slacked off, too, by pronouncing words like "a" as "uh" and "the" as "thuh", but, whatever, I'm tired of typing.

[hitekredneck]

Everyone I've ever known that spoke with a conventional accent (southern, Jersey, et cetera) has said that I speak with a total absence of accent. Not southern, not western, not midwestern, not British, not Canadian, not anything. I'm not saying that all Americans speak without an accent, I'm saying that more Americans speak without an accent than Brits. Watch anything on TV. You'll be listening to people talk, then as soon as someone starts speaking with an accent, boom, you notice it. I think it is possible to speak without an accent, and I think it's easier for Americans to do so than Brits due to our great diversity of accents (we are exposed to far more than one) and the fact that more people speak without one already. I grew up with neither of my parents speaking with a southern accent or even using southern dialect. The word "hey" was unfamiliar to me until I met my neighbor. I eventually picked up some of the dialect, but I never picked up the accent.

I think that, in order to speak without an accent, we have to pronounce every letter and every word exactly as the English language dictates. The Brits created the language (not true, actually -- English is an amalgamation of Norman French and Anglo-Saxon), but they don't always follow all the rules. A common example of this would be their tendency to never pronounce the letter "h" at the beginning of words, which leads to them saying things like "This is an history of England," which is totally wrong (it should be a history). We've slacked off, too, by pronouncing words like "a" as "uh" and "the" as "thuh", but, whatever, I'm tired of typing.

just wondering...if there's a total lack of accent, wouldn't that be an accent of it's own?:confused: :D

[England Expects]

We've all got accents.

Nowhere on the planet is it more apparent than here. You can literally drive 50 miles and not understand a word anyone is saying.

Of course, you all know the cockney and the "Queens" English accent, but there are loads of others: Scouse, brummie, geordie, west country, East anglian. Theres a huge difference between northern and southern English accents and dialect. Then there are the Scots, Welsh and Irish (Eire and Ulster, they're completely different).

If you check this clip, from a chat show here, Sean Bean (Boromir in Lord of the Rings) is from Sheffield and the other guy is from Birmingham. I live about 30 miles from each, so my accent is similar to them both.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HctvcPwGXFQ&mode=related&search=

The "American" accent, if you listen to it carefully, is influenced heavily by Northern Irish, mixed with English of course.

Losierdo, nobody speaks without some kind of accent. If you pronounced every syllable and letter, you'd sound like the Queen.

Of course you're right about the English language being an amalgam of Norman and Anglo-saxon, but there's also Latin, Gaelic and influences from scandinavian languages in there too.

[thememan]

If American English is a bastardized form of English, why are we the only ones that manage to speak it without an accent? Unless by "bastardized" you mean "repaired".

We do have an accent. You just don't notice it because that's what you grew up with.

Really. It's true. Southerners, for instance, always make fun of my "northern" accent.

And I pronounce "boat" as "bote", not "Bo-it". Dammit.

[Loseirdo]

We do have an accent. You just don't notice it because that's what you grew up with.

Really. It's true. Southerners, for instance, always make fun of my "northern" accent.

And I pronounce "boat" as "bote", not "Bo-it". Dammit.

That's not it, though. Like I said, people who grew up speaking with a certain accent claim that I speak without one. These are people who grew up with everyone speaking the same way. They don't see themselves as speaking without an accent, but they do see me as such.

And England, pronunciation is exactly where my English and the Queen's English differ. In my experience, British "proper" English is very similar to American "proper" English. The main difference is that the British variant has more of a tendency to draw out or round the sounds, while the American variant usually pronounces things as written. An example: Wherefore art thou, Romeo? A woman speaking with a British accent would pronounce this more as "Wherefoer aht thou". Everything is more or less included, but the sounds are rounded. Likewise, a woman speaking with an American accent would pronounce it strictly as "Where-four-art-thou". Every consonant is solid and sounded and every vowel is either long or short.

Bleh, I'm tired of arguing linguistics. I'm not an English major and I don't plan on being one (but I think my girlfriend is), so I don't really care that much. But I do believe that there is one absolute "proper" way to pronounce everything in English, and doing so would result in no apparent accent. But like Hitek said, this in itself could be considered an accent, so it doesn't really matter.

[England Expects]

I guarantee if you came to England, you'd be easily identified as American.

"Wherefoer"???

You've been watching a crazy adaptation of Romeo and Juliet, either that or you've got a messed up idea of what English people sound like.

[Loseirdo]

I guarantee if you came to England, you'd be easily identified as American.

"Wherefoer"???

You've been watching a crazy adaptation of Romeo and Juliet, either that or you've got a messed up idea of what English people sound like.

It's incredibly difficult to relate sounds via text. I meant that a Brit would pronounce "wherefore" with a more drawn-out and less emphatic "r" sound.

[Walter Weiss]

TO EACH HIS OWN....if a man or woman wants to live in America, work here, pay sales tax, income tax, etc, etc, have at it, because this country is full of present citizens who were born here that do neither!

TO EACH HIS OWN....if a man or woman wants to speak Spanish, then let them have at it. They have a right to do so dont they? What is it hurting? Is it hurting your personally?

Sometimes I think that we Americans forget where we come from. Some of our ancestors were militarists. Some were oppressed people by governments and churches. Some were vagabonds. Some were desperados, bandits, thieves, the Sons and Daughters of Kings and Queens who were cast out. Some were brought here involuntarily impressed into foreign service or in lives of servitude to a merchant or investor. Otheres were "borrowed" from the jungles of Africa and never returned to their homeland....some of them borrowed at gun and sword point....chained.

In light of our history....how can you protest a few Mexicans coming here to work? They are at the least paying sales tax, and buying products from which entrepreneurs are profiting. They dump millions of dollars into the local economy every month. If you think that there is a problem, then make an express situation for immigration. On the average, it would take each person over 200 hours worth of work and waiting to get one simple card with their name and thumprint on it. How ridiculous that is. ALL OF THEM WANT TO BE LEGAL...NO ONE WANTS KICKED OUT OF HERE....BUT WHEN YOU ARE TALKING MILLIONS TO BE PROCESSED UNDER THE CURRENT BUREACRACY, BY A HANDFUL OF CLERKS, IT WOULD TAKE DECADES OR LONGER FOR EVERYONE TO BECOME LEGAL. Cut out the buraucracy, and you will have a legal, income tax paying Mexican-American. At the present, it is quite impossible to deal with the influx.

What happened to "give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses?"

[hitekredneck]

[QUOTE=Walter Weiss;40069]TO EACH HIS OWN....if a man or woman wants to live in America, work here, pay sales tax, income tax, etc, etc, have at it, because this country is full of present citizens who were born here that do neither!TO EACH HIS OWN....if a man or woman wants to speak Spanish, then let them have at it.* They have a right to do so dont they?* What is it hurting?* Is it hurting your personally?[QUOTE]
walter, i respect this...the problem isn't with people speaking spanish, it's with people of any origin refusing to speak english...that and criminals coming into the country

[General Septem]

TO EACH HIS OWN....if a man or woman wants to speak Spanish, then let them have at it. They have a right to do so dont they? What is it hurting? Is it hurting your personally?

Of course not. But we shouldn't have to print every goddamn thing in Spanish to accommodate them.


What happened to "give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses?"

Liberal bullshit. :D

[freakazoid]

TO EACH HIS OWN....if a man or woman wants to live in America, work here, pay sales tax, income tax, etc, etc, have at it, because this country is full of present citizens who were born here that do neither!

TO EACH HIS OWN....if a man or woman wants to speak Spanish, then let them have at it. They have a right to do so dont they? What is it hurting? Is it hurting your personally?

Sometimes I think that we Americans forget where we come from. Some of our ancestors were militarists. Some were oppressed people by governments and churches. Some were vagabonds. Some were desperados, bandits, thieves, the Sons and Daughters of Kings and Queens who were cast out. Some were brought here involuntarily impressed into foreign service or in lives of servitude to a merchant or investor. Otheres were "borrowed" from the jungles of Africa and never returned to their homeland....some of them borrowed at gun and sword point....chained.

In light of our history....how can you protest a few Mexicans coming here to work? They are at the least paying sales tax, and buying products from which entrepreneurs are profiting. They dump millions of dollars into the local economy every month. If you think that there is a problem, then make an express situation for immigration. On the average, it would take each person over 200 hours worth of work and waiting to get one simple card with their name and thumprint on it. How ridiculous that is. ALL OF THEM WANT TO BE LEGAL...NO ONE WANTS KICKED OUT OF HERE....BUT WHEN YOU ARE TALKING MILLIONS TO BE PROCESSED UNDER THE CURRENT BUREACRACY, BY A HANDFUL OF CLERKS, IT WOULD TAKE DECADES OR LONGER FOR EVERYONE TO BECOME LEGAL. Cut out the buraucracy, and you will have a legal, income tax paying Mexican-American. At the present, it is quite impossible to deal with the influx.

What happened to "give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses?"

RE: "What happened to "give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses?"

What happened to it? Nothing, dude...we still feel that way; we think that every true American outta have at least six or seven foreign servants as long as they don't smell like camels. :Dhttp://forum.bullshit.com/images/icons/icon14.gif ...Besides, who else is going to dry off my car at the brush less carwash?

[thememan]

Of course not. But we shouldn't have to print every goddamn thing in Spanish to accommodate them.


We don't really have to. Most of the things I've seen printed in Spanish are instruction manuals, and others of the like, however those are almost always printed in a few other languages as well. It's just good business sense. Reach a wider consumer base. People will always, always understand their original language far better than a second language. So really, I'm not seeing a huge problem when companies decide to print text(Which is really all I have seen things printed in spanish-when companies do it) in Spanish, and to boycott them because they do it is pure idiocy. Not only are they pretty much catering to the large hispanic population already in America, but they probably sell their stuff south of the border, as well.

That said, I read an interesting article recently. Apparently, there are currently 1 million US immigrants living in Mexico. What is bringing them there, you might ask? Well, cheap-cheap housing. Americans are currently flocking to south of the border to buy up cheap real estate, bringing with them gated communities and other luxuries of being "rich". Now, one may think this would be a good thing at first glance. However, it's not. The problem is, with this massive influx of Americans, property prices are sky rocketing, making it damn near impossible for locals to afford any land in many areas in Mexico. As well, these "upper income" immigrants are driving up prices of goods and services in these areas. This makes it damn hard for locals to afford anything even remotely approaching a living in this area. You would think this creates more jobs. Well, it technically does. However, they are extremely low paying jobs. What we have here, basically, is Americans, being pricks, moving into an area, and making said area unaffordable to the locals. Of course, this isn't the first time this has occurred. The same exact thing is actually occurring in Montana, under the exact same context and situations. Rich people move in, buy up the cheap land, and make everything unaffordable for the locals.

So really, what we have is a problem, here. Americans are actually very directly making things much, much worse for Mexicans, many of whom would love nothing more than to see the Yanks go back north for the winter, if you will.

The question now becomes: What does the anti-immigration crowd think of this US-ian invasion of Mexico, and the social, economic, and political implication it creates within Mexico? Is it all honkey-dory? If so, why? What makes their immigration so bad, when our immigrants are causing some very direct, and very severe problems for them?