Another Ex-Atheist

[Limbo]

I have written elsewhere about Antony Flew who was a famous and outspoken atheist philosopher until very late in life when he came to believe in God. Today we heard about the death of Norman Mailer who was a well known writer, political activist and outspoken atheist. He also had a late change of heart, coming to not only believe in God, but also in the divinity of Jesus, and that Satan is real.

Some interesting quotes from a recent interview:


Do you really believe the devil was present at the conception of Adolf Hitler, as he is in the book?
Uh, yeah. I mean, if I say that, and you see it in print, it sounds bizarre, lunatic, unsettling. But if we can believe that God or Gabriel was present at the conception of Jesus, then it seems to me we can believe that the devil was present at the conception of Adolf Hitler.

What about the people who hear you talking about God and the devil and think, ''He's crazy!''?
That's the hazard, of course. You talk about God and the devil and you're crazy! If you don't believe in God and the devil, I wouldn't say you're crazy, but you're intellectually malnourished, because I defy anyone who doesn't believe that something created us to give an answer to how we got here.


If you are interested, you can read the whole article by clicking here. (http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20008037_1,00.html)

[TheSpectacularSecularist]

I defy anyone who doesn't believe that something created us to give an answer to how we got here.

Why is an "answer" so important, I think we will have to ask ourselfs?

[yee-haw]

religion, like the earth the sun and moon alike are things we think we know about as a race but you can't argue the fact that there has to be somethig out there.... no matter what you believe is a higher power. i think everyone should form thier own opinion if your going to be an outspoken athiest and towards the end or due to a NDE you change your mind...well that should be proof enough for those who still need proof.----this is only my opinion, i may be wrong!

[ballzack]

I never argue with anyone over religion or politics. It's one of the pearls of wisdom given to me by my father.....now passed on, or moved beyond our stream of conciousness, or simply dead. Depends on what you believe ;)

If someone truly believes in a "creator" or believes in "evolution" or believes that we were deposited here by creatons from the planet Morstupid, then so be it. I don't have the energy or the time to waste trying to convince him or her otherwise. Since I personally do not know and can not prove anything, it's all up for personal belief anyway.

Freedom of religion, right?

[yee-haw]

I never argue with anyone over religion or politics. It's one of the pearls of wisdom given to me by my father.....now passed on, or moved beyond our stream of conciousness, or simply dead. Depends on what you believe ;)

If someone truly believes in a "creator" or believes in "evolution" or believes that we were deposited here by creatons from the planet Morstupid, then so be it. I don't have the energy or the time to waste trying to convince him or her otherwise. Since I personally do not know and can not prove anything, it's all up for personal belief anyway.

Freedom of religion, right?

I agree with freedom of religion, but i can't understand some of it like the god or creator warren jeffs believes in or alya(however you spell it)... can't come to understand how people think marrying 12 year olds or killing a bunch of people only to be rewarded with 72 virgins or something is ok! but this is only my opinion i could be wrong!:confused:

[ballzack]

You're right Haw.

Freedom of ANYTHING has a point where you must curtail the freedom due to abuse.

If my religion believes that I must have ten wives, all under the age of thirteen, or, if my religion believes I must kill you so that I can have virgins in an after life, then it's no longer my privilege to choose that religion as a lifestyle. It's now a moral matter, and in this country, a legal matter scheduled under law.

There has to be some constraints on everything we do that effects others, or we have anarchy. Freedom of anything certainly does not allow me to push my belief on you, and it certainly does NOT give me a ticket to do whatever the hell I want to regardless of moral or legal obligation or law.

[General Septem]

It's not so much about curtailing freedom. The bottom line is, there are certain things that you can't do to other people, and raping them or forcing them to marry you are among them. Religion does not give you the right to infringe on other's liberties, because that infringes upon their religious freedom as well.

[ballzack]

Exactly.

If you cross the line on any "right to choose" lifestyle, then you have to face a moral or legal circumstance. Some may carry severe consequences.

[Limbo]

I never argue with anyone over religion or politics. It's one of the pearls of wisdom given to me by my father

I rarely argue about religion with people in person, but I have expressed my views and beliefs when others asked me about it. It is obviously a divisive topic, much like politics. I think people see how you conduct your life as the most important indicator of the kind of person you are, much more so than what you say you believe.

I think we do have the right to make judgments about other peoples beliefs if it causes their actions to endanger others or society or if what they are saying is factually incorrect. We should not be apathetic in that respect. And at bullshit.com? Man, why hold back in this kind of forum. It is anonymous so if you piss other people off by talking about stuff, who cares? Why just float through life and never consider and debate the big questions? Why are we here? How did we get here? Does life have meaning and purpose? Is there right and wrong? What happens when we die? etc..

My experience is many people just prefer to hide from such questions and numb their senses with booze, music, materialism, etc, so they don't have to think about it.

[ballzack]

I agree.
Good post.

It's very difficult to change a person's political view or religious belief.

As a society, however, we can't turn a blind-eye to wrong-doing simply because someone waves a religious bias or a political banner as the reason for what they did.

I may not be religious, and I may not really be political in my thinking.... or maybe I am. The choice is mine. However, I am social enough to understand that I can't do whatever the hell I want to based on either of these icons!

[yee-haw]

just a couple comments on what the general and ballzack posted, you guys are both right on the money as far as im concerned.. i respect what the both of you have posted. there has to be some constraints absolutely and some things are just freekin' wrong no matter how you slice it!! i agree with the both of you all the way.... "great post" :D