hey, england...

[hitekredneck]

you tell me that banning guns is the only way to go, that you have less violent crime in the uk...well, here's a story i picked up this evening that says all is not so safe in the uk...at any rate, i can tell you right now that if i gotta go, i'ld rather get shot...i've seen sword wounds and can honestly say that i think those people suffered horribly before they died...
here's the story:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071213/od_nm/swords_dc;_ylt=Aqj9enl1qcLKhXQTA0fkFR8uQE4F

[WhiteRaven]

Trust me, even very small sword wounds hurt like a bitch.

[Walter Weiss]

you tell me that banning guns is the only way to go, that you have less violent crime in the uk...well, here's a story i picked up this evening that says all is not so safe in the uk...at any rate, i can tell you right now that if i gotta go, i'ld rather get shot...i've seen sword wounds and can honestly say that i think those people suffered horribly before they died...
here's the story:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071213/od_nm/swords_dc;_ylt=Aqj9enl1qcLKhXQTA0fkFR8uQE4F


We will not ban guns in the USA because we are the USA and we are not England. When I visit England, I will leave my gun at home. When an Englishman visits the USA he is welcome to come with us to the field or creekbed or the range for an evening of shooting sport, and a cold beer and whiskey afterwards. If he comes at dear season, then he might get a hunt in.

In England, mostly only the very rich have guns. The working class dont seem to be allowed. Well hell....in the USA, we are a gun culture....and all of us have guns, and we will protect ourselves with them if necessary. Not give them to the King or Queen.

[England Expects]

Well, I dont think I've ever said that you should ban guns. I have often spoken about whether or not America's gun laws (or lack of) serve their purpose effectively.

I also dont claim that we have lower levels of violent crime. With the exception of homicide, the statistics show that there is little difference between our countries.

I think you miss the point about the article though hitek. Its says that 11 people were "seriously wounded". It makes no mention of fatalities.

Walter, in the UK shot-guns and rifles are permitted for sport. There are rigorous procedures in place that have to be followed to be allowed a permit and strict regulations about how and where these guns can be kept and stored.

You also cannot shoot here without landowners permission. As 75% of the country is arable farmland, its almost impossible to get this permission unless you are in some kind of shooting club.

It's not that the working classes are not allowed guns; my uncle shoots regularly and I have two brace of pheasant here to draw this afternoon for the freezer. Its just that shooting is generally a pastime for the well-off.

[hitekredneck]

Well, I dont think I've ever said that you should ban guns. I have often spoken about whether or not America's gun laws (or lack of) serve their purpose effectively.

I also dont claim that we have lower levels of violent crime. With the exception of homicide, the statistics show that there is little difference between our countries.

I think you miss the point about the article though hitek. Its says that 11 people were "seriously wounded". It makes no mention of fatalities.

Walter, in the UK shot-guns and rifles are permitted for sport. There are rigorous procedures in place that have to be followed to be allowed a permit and strict regulations about how and where these guns can be kept and stored.

You also cannot shoot here without landowners permission. As 75% of the country is arable farmland, its almost impossible to get this permission unless you are in some kind of shooting club.

It's not that the working classes are not allowed guns; my uncle shoots regularly and I have two brace of pheasant here to draw this afternoon for the freezer. Its just that shooting is generally a pastime for the well-off.

you still missed my point...have you seen sword wounds?...i have, and they're hideously painful as well as disfiguring....that and the fact that there's absolutely no possibility of legislating everything that can be utilized as a deadly/dangerous weapon...i gotta say, tho, i think england is probably at the top of the statistics for sword attacks....:D

[England Expects]

I've not seen sword wounds, no. If the guy had a gun, would the 11 people have lived long enough to be hideously disfigured? Probably not.

Sure you cant legislate against everything that can be used as a weapon, but when stuff like this happens, you have a choice; do something or do nothing.

I'd rather our government do something.

[hitekredneck]

I've not seen sword wounds, no. If the guy had a gun, would the 11 people have lived long enough to be hideously disfigured? Probably not.

Sure you cant legislate against everything that can be used as a weapon, but when stuff like this happens, you have a choice; do something or do nothing.

I'd rather our government do something.

see, here's how i see it...when stuff like this happens, people should NOT rely on government to see to their personal safety....in situations like what happened, somebody should have "sacked up" enough to try and stop the assault....as for if he had a gun, it would depend on many variables...sure, a lot of people would have died, but then, over there in the uk, (no disrespect intended) people are refused the right to arm and defend themselves....

[England Expects]

You see hitek, this is the REAL difference between the US and the UK.

To most Brits, guns are a threat to our personal safety, not a guardian of.

The American idea that we are constantly under so much threat from each other that we ought to go around carrying guns is seen as absurdly paranoid and fearful. People who carry weapons here are seen as cowards.

Sure, people still get killed. People still get mugged, raped or beaten up but that will happen in every country, regardless of the availability of guns but I think someone said "freedom is not for the feint hearted". A lurch towards liberalising gun laws here would be seen as defeatist, cowardly and certainly not the "British" thing to do.

Of course, no offence intended in any of that!!

Oh yeah hitek, a "brace" is two. Two brace of pheasant = four birds.;)

[WhiteRaven]

"The American idea that we are constantly under so much threat from each other that we ought to go around carrying guns is seen as absurdly paranoid and fearful"

But it isn't... People get mugged and whatnot every day...

[England Expects]

Still, there's no need to be afraid of the world. It's cowardly to be so. We have nothing to fear but fear itself. Smart guy, Mr Roosevelt.

When you set foot outside of your front door in a morning WR, the chances of you being mugged are tiny.

[General Septem]

Still, there's no need to be afraid of the world. It's cowardly to be so. We have nothing to fear but fear itself. Smart guy, Mr Roosevelt.

When you set foot outside of your front door in a morning WR, the chances of you being mugged are tiny.

Your chances of being mugged differ depending on where you are, but your chances are zero if you have a gun and know how to use it.

See, we're not so much afraid of the world as we are realists. By carrying guns, we no longer have anything to fear at all.

[England Expects]

Your chances of being mugged differ depending on where you are, but your chances are zero if you have a gun and know how to use it.

See, we're not so much afraid of the world as we are realists. By carrying guns, we no longer have anything to fear at all.

Nonsense General. I'd agree with you if the US had eradicated this kind of crime. The fact is that the rates for crimes like muggings are still on par with the UK, EU and Australia. The only difference is that you're more likely to be killed in the process in the US.

The idea that the world is out to get you, therefore you must carry a gun is a self-fulfilling prophecy in the US.

[General Septem]

Nonsense General. I'd agree with you if the US had eradicated this kind of crime. The fact is that the rates for crimes like muggings are still on par with the UK, EU and Australia. The only difference is that you're more likely to be killed in the process in the US.

Yeah, but a lot of people don't carry guns anymore. See, that's the thing, lenient gun laws put the responsibility of self-protection into the people's hands. People used to protect themselves, but they don't anymore. That's why crime is so high.

You can't look at overall crime rates because the presence of a gun is so inconsistent. Better statistics would be that those who carry guns and know how to use them are much less likely to be victims than those who are completely defenseless.

[England Expects]

Yeah, but a lot of people don't carry guns anymore. See, that's the thing, lenient gun laws put the responsibility of self-protection into the people's hands. People used to protect themselves, but they don't anymore. That's why crime is so high.

You can't look at overall crime rates because the presence of a gun is so inconsistent. Better statistics would be that those who carry guns and know how to use them are much less likely to be victims than those who are completely defenseless.

The presence of a gun in inconsistent, maybe but the availability of a gun isnt. Muggings still happen, so it doesn't seem to be much of a deterrent. If the only people who become victims are the people who are defenceless, you're not solving the problem. You're just shifting it to other people.

The US has its lowest homicide rate in years at the moment, although it is still much higher than the rest of the civilized world. Maybe that's because lots of people don't carry guns anymore.

[Walter Weiss]

Nonsense General. I'd agree with you if the US had eradicated this kind of crime. The fact is that the rates for crimes like muggings are still on par with the UK, EU and Australia. The only difference is that you're more likely to be killed in the process in the US.

The idea that the world is out to get you, therefore you must carry a gun is a self-fulfilling prophecy in the US.


Eradicate? Eradicate? Another one is born every minute it would seem. It could take generations to eradicate. Law Enforcement in America and the court system is very troubled right now....plagued with ethics problems, arrogance, corruption, and other challenges. There are some good and noble cops out there right now fighting crime....but they constantly have to look over their shoulders at the politics of it all.

[bullfighter]

Eradicate? Eradicate? Another one is born every minute it would seem. It could take generations to eradicate. Law Enforcement in America and the court system is very troubled right now....plagued with ethics problems, arrogance, corruption, and other challenges. There are some good and noble cops out there right now fighting crime....but they constantly have to look over their shoulders at the politics of it all.

a problem in high places,and the people going astray....we have lots of problems here to fix......hah hah hah [i know you will fine words to discredit me ,as this is your pride in life]you said i was half the problem that is why i was threatened....wrong you are 100percent ... so i know now that you might be wrong in many other thoughts you have

[WhiteRaven]

I am afraid, I will admit that, big fucking deal! There are times when one should be afraid. Fear saved me from drowning once...

[General Septem]

Fear saved me from drowning once...

What happened?

[Walter Weiss]

a problem in high places,and the people going astray....we have lots of problems here to fix......hah hah hah [i know you will fine words to discredit me ,as this is your pride in life]you said i was half the problem that is why i was threatened....wrong you are 100percent ... so i know now that you might be wrong in many other thoughts you have


There is nothing to discredit you for. You havent said anything here that would call your credibility into question. You keep posting. You and I have fired some cannon shots back and forth, but that doesnt mean that I can enjoy communicating with you even though we dont agree on a number of things. If we both agreed with everything the other person said, we would certainly get very bored in here very fast.

You keep posting....your are doing just fine.

[England Expects]

I am afraid, I will admit that, big fucking deal! There are times when one should be afraid. Fear saved me from drowning once...

Rational fear is a safety mechanism.

Living your life fearing that you'll be mugged if you don't carry a gun is irrational.

[England Expects]

There is nothing to discredit you for. You havent said anything here that would call your credibility into question. You keep posting. You and I have fired some cannon shots back and forth, but that doesnt mean that I can enjoy communicating with you even though we dont agree on a number of things. If we both agreed with everything the other person said, we would certainly get very bored in here very fast.

You keep posting....your are doing just fine.

bullfighter, either your english is getting better or I'm beginning to understand you a little better. Either way, keep posting.:cool:

[Ope]

GUN OWNERSHIP MANDATORY IN KENNESAW, GEORGIA
"The New American magazine reminds us that March 25th marked the 16th anniversary of Kennesaw, Georgia's ordinance requiring heads of households (with certain exceptions) to keep at least one firearm in their homes. The city's population grew from around 5,000 in 1980 to 13,000 by 1996 (latest available estimate). Yet there have been only three murders: two with knives (1984 and 1987) and one with a firearm (1997). After the law went into effect in 1982, crime against persons plummeted 74 percent compared to 1981, and fell another 45 percent in 1983 compared to 1982. And it has stayed impressively low. In addition to nearly non-existent homicide (murders have averaged a mere 0.19 per year), the annual number of armed robberies, residential burglaries, commercial burglaries, and rapes have averaged, respectively, 1.69, 31.63, 19.75, and 2.00 through 1998."



------yes, i realize that this is a small community, but the point remains. EVERYONE is afraid of guns, criminals included

[General Septem]

bullfighter, either your english is getting better or I'm beginning to understand you a little better. Either way, keep posting.:cool:

You realize you were quoting Walter? :D

[Eruption]

GUN OWNERSHIP MANDATORY IN KENNESAW, GEORGIA
"The New American magazine reminds us that March 25th marked the 16th anniversary of Kennesaw, Georgia's ordinance requiring heads of households (with certain exceptions) to keep at least one firearm in their homes. The city's population grew from around 5,000 in 1980 to 13,000 by 1996 (latest available estimate). Yet there have been only three murders: two with knives (1984 and 1987) and one with a firearm (1997). After the law went into effect in 1982, crime against persons plummeted 74 percent compared to 1981, and fell another 45 percent in 1983 compared to 1982. And it has stayed impressively low. In addition to nearly non-existent homicide (murders have averaged a mere 0.19 per year), the annual number of armed robberies, residential burglaries, commercial burglaries, and rapes have averaged, respectively, 1.69, 31.63, 19.75, and 2.00 through 1998."



------yes, i realize that this is a small community, but the point remains. EVERYONE is afraid of guns, criminals included



NONONONONONONO NO!!!!!!!!! EXTREME LEFT R TEH ANSWER!!!! BAN GUNS FOREVR!!!! DEY R TEH EVIL!!!!! WITHOUTTHEM CRIME RATES ROCKET UP BUT ITS OK CAUSE THE CITIZENZ CANT PROTEKT THEMSELVESZ FRUM TEH GOVERMET!!!

Seriously people... wtf....

[bullfighter]

Rational fear is a safety mechanism.

Living your life fearing that you'll be mugged if you don't carry a gun is irrational.

there is three people,one has a gun a mugger comes up , the person shoots the mugger.lives with the fact that he killed someone over some material[but in his pride knows he is justified]the second person has no gun but in his pride gets killed over the material thing that the mugger wants..now the third person says to the mugger here have it and you can have this also...not attached to the material, leaves alive and waits patiently for god to repay the loss[which he soon gets because of the power of positive belief and faith]the mugger goes away spends the money on drugs fucks up his brain more ,hurts his body gets into hurtfull situations and get 10times the greif for his sin..so here is the thing ,to have a gun is fine but what is in your mind....to give up guns because the gouvernment says to i would be very against that

[thememan]

GUN OWNERSHIP MANDATORY IN KENNESAW, GEORGIA
"The New American magazine reminds us that March 25th marked the 16th anniversary of Kennesaw, Georgia's ordinance requiring heads of households (with certain exceptions) to keep at least one firearm in their homes. The city's population grew from around 5,000 in 1980 to 13,000 by 1996 (latest available estimate). Yet there have been only three murders: two with knives (1984 and 1987) and one with a firearm (1997). After the law went into effect in 1982, crime against persons plummeted 74 percent compared to 1981, and fell another 45 percent in 1983 compared to 1982. And it has stayed impressively low. In addition to nearly non-existent homicide (murders have averaged a mere 0.19 per year), the annual number of armed robberies, residential burglaries, commercial burglaries, and rapes have averaged, respectively, 1.69, 31.63, 19.75, and 2.00 through 1998."



------yes, i realize that this is a small community, but the point remains. EVERYONE is afraid of guns, criminals included

Mandatory gun ownership sits on equal grounds as banning guns together.

People should have a choice on whether or not to own weaponry or guns, and should be forced into it. If a person doesn't want to, they shouldn't have to. Simple as that.

[Loseirdo]

Mandatory gun ownership sits on equal grounds as banning guns together.

People should have a choice on whether or not to own weaponry or guns, and should be forced into it. If a person doesn't want to, they shouldn't have to. Simple as that.

I agree with you, but Ope's point was that everyone owning guns led to a drastic decrease in crime, meaning they do more good than harm.

[hitekredneck]

You see hitek, this is the REAL difference between the US and the UK.

To most Brits, guns are a threat to our personal safety, not a guardian of.

The American idea that we are constantly under so much threat from each other that we ought to go around carrying guns is seen as absurdly paranoid and fearful. People who carry weapons here are seen as cowards.

Sure, people still get killed. People still get mugged, raped or beaten up but that will happen in every country, regardless of the availability of guns but I think someone said "freedom is not for the feint hearted". A lurch towards liberalising gun laws here would be seen as defeatist, cowardly and certainly not the "British" thing to do.

Of course, no offence intended in any of that!!

Oh yeah hitek, a "brace" is two. Two brace of pheasant = four birds.;)

thanks, ee...now back to the point, i think you have a very popular misconception about the us and our "gun culture"...we view guns as a tool, first and formost....like a nailgun is to a carpenter, guns are for hunting and self protection...from our own government, in dire circumstances, but mostly from the dregs of society that refuse to live by the word of law....as long as there's people that want what you've got without work or effort, there will be people willing to do extreme harm to get it by any means possible, tho they usually find it's even more work than honest labor...the true difference between our cultures is the need for self-reliance, or the lack of reliance on the government to guarantee our personal safety...

[hitekredneck]

Mandatory gun ownership sits on equal grounds as banning guns together.

People should have a choice on whether or not to own weaponry or guns, and should be forced into it. If a person doesn't want to, they shouldn't have to. Simple as that.

this is the most logical statement i've seen from you :cool:

[bullfighter]

this is the most logical statement i've seen from you :cool:

them guns or you call them weapons..like when you get insurance the deer hit your car not you hit the deer.....in canada they did the gun thing ,it was forced on them,they lied and the cost was 40 times more then they said it would be..it was not to control crime but to control the good people that had the guns,the bad guys still have guns

[hitekredneck]

them guns or you call them weapons..like when you get insurance the deer hit your car not you hit the deer.....in canada they did the gun thing ,it was forced on them,they lied and the cost was 40 times more then they said it would be..it was not to control crime but to control the good people that had the guns,the bad guys still have guns

a very coherent statement, my friend...all gun control does in this country is turn more and more people into criminals simply for wanting to provide themselves and their families with protection

[Walter Weiss]

You realize you were quoting Walter? :D

General....man you are a cold one, arent you! Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha,.....good jibe at the both of us.....good one! England is going to put on his Red Coat if he gets too many more posts that suggest he is of my feather!

Hey England, I know what you were really trying to do, and I admire you for it. Communication is GOOD....and you were promoting communication and attempting to raise his confidence....that is an example of GOOD. You can tell that to the poster who was asking on this site for examples of GOOD and EVIL. You are a good soul. Bullfighter is sharing some things with us, and that is GOOD.

[England Expects]

Thanks Walter. I was actually posting in agreement of your post, but to be fair to you, your English is coming along very well too.:D:D:D

[Walter Weiss]

Thanks Walter. I was actually posting in agreement of your post, but to be fair to you, your English is coming along very well too.:D:D:D

Yeah, I know, and thanks.....by the way do you speak cockney as well?

[England Expects]

Yeah, I know, and thanks.....by the way do you speak cockney as well?

Cor blimey guvnor, ya bet your trouble and strife I do.

[TheSpectacularSecularist]

Cor blimey guvnor, ya bet your trouble and strife I do.

Is that the English they spoke in "Bend It Like Beckham"?

[bullfighter]

Is that the English they spoke in "Bend It Like Beckham"?

you field up me look,like wheel in de rabbit...[no this is different clan].i have know idea .i was not asked, just wanted to lighten my thoughts for once here in the land of folly and rebuttal

[Walter Weiss]

Cor blimey guvnor, ya bet your trouble and strife I do.

I have a lady friend who grew up in England. Her father was a surgeon who taught university, and he flew Hurricanes and Spits over the channel during the war. I once asked her if she spoke cockney, and she really did not appreciate the question. Why? Do you know? I really am fond of her.

[Walter Weiss]

you field up me look,like wheel in de rabbit...[no this is different clan].i have know idea .i was not asked, just wanted to lighten my thoughts for once here in the land of folly and rebuttal

You did well! Are you sure you didnt have kippers and eggs for breakfast?

[England Expects]

Is that the English they spoke in "Bend It Like Beckham"?

Not sure about Bend it like Beckham TSS. Wasn't that about an Indian/English kid??

[England Expects]

I have a lady friend who grew up in England. Her father was a surgeon who taught university, and he flew Hurricanes and Spits over the channel during the war. I once asked her if she spoke cockney, and she really did not appreciate the question. Why? Do you know? I really am fond of her.

The cockney's are basically the poor, working class that live in east London. To be considered a true cockney, you have to be born within hearing distance of the "Bow Bells"; from a church in a very rough part of the city.

Maybe she didn't like the thought of being associated with them??

[General Septem]

The cockney's are basically the poor, working class that live in east London. To be considered a true cockney, you have to be born within hearing distance of the "Bow Bells"; from a church in a very rough part of the city.

Maybe she didn't like the thought of being associated with them??

So cockney is kind of a more civilized form of ghetto speak? :D

[Walter Weiss]

The cockney's are basically the poor, working class that live in east London. To be considered a true cockney, you have to be born within hearing distance of the "Bow Bells"; from a church in a very rough part of the city.

Maybe she didn't like the thought of being associated with them??

You are most probably right. I didnt know enough about it.

What a wonderful story....hearing the bells....how old is "Cockney" do you think?

[England Expects]

So cockney is kind of a more civilized form of ghetto speak? :D

I like your thinking General.:D

[England Expects]

You are most probably right. I didnt know enough about it.

What a wonderful story....hearing the bells....how old is "Cockney" do you think?

The original Mary Le Bow church burned down in the great fire of London in 1666, so it is definitely older than that. Probably from Tudor Britain (1500-1600), if not older.