private school or public ?

[insane1]

my children attend a private school so im very parcial towards them. alot of opinion's on both sides & i listen to them all & yes my children are very shelterd yet educated on matters in the so called "REAL" world.

[Chigun]

I see no real qualms with private school (Provided it's a good private school, which only you would know.) I myself have always had a bit of a bias against public schools, seeing and hearing some of the situations and moraless behavior. It is true that private may shelter, but I do not see the major issue as by the time a person enters the "REAL" world they would have gathered enough to understand and function perfectly fine. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being taught that way.

Now some private schools raise a red flag. I once attended a private school in which its teaching and discipline system was simply not who I was. The kids were wild and I lived a year of hell. As long as your kids are happy and have friends and are not bullied I think its a wonderful thing.

[southsidesenior07]

As a student of both private and public school settings, I feel that the "public vs private" debate is highly ineffective. I have seen drawbacks and benefits of both forms of education. While it is highly true that private schools tend ON AVERAGE to shelter children from certain aspects of society (diversity, violence, etc), there are also qualms about public schools (want to know some horror stories? Read Savage Inequalities by Jonathon Kozol, but also recognize that THIS IS NOT EVERY PUBLIC SCHOOL). I currently attend high school in the poorest, "ghetto-est" part of my city, at the most "disgraceful" high school in town, and I have as much pride in the education I've recieved as the students of the rich, private, promising private schools in my area. I say that the final decision in Public v. Private should be up to each individual student, not the parent, the student's friends, the school district, or the rumor mill. A child can only get an adequate education if he/she is happy with the surroundings, and regardless of those surroundings being private or public, we want only the best for the future leaders of the US.

[Paisleyspeaker]

I am wondering how a college student can afford to put their kids in private school, but more power to you. Most of what I have heard about private schools has been good, and the ones I have visited were beautiful. A friend that attended a parocial school did get a less than great science education. After all when you discard Darwin, it takes a lot out of science.
I personally plan o homeschooling my childen, as my oldest is three, we are reading and I have started collecting resources and deciding on methodology. It is a huge commitment though, it will basically prohibit me from full time employment for about ninteen years. I am already a stay at home mom, and really can't wait to teach my children all about the world we live in. :D

[beelzebub]

I am wondering how a college student can afford to put their kids in private school, but more power to you.

Yeah, I think that it would have to be a charity christian school.


A friend that attended a parocial school did get a less than great science education. After all when you discard Darwin, it takes a lot out of science.

You go girl! Thats absoutly fucking right! Those stupid school systems put themselves to shame with this bullshit. Hell, even the catholic church has sided with evolution.


I personally plan on homeschooling my childen, as my oldest is three, we are reading and I have started collecting resources and deciding on methodology. It is a huge commitment though,

This is where you and I diverge. I am sending my son to private school immediatly! If I had to homeschool him I would go bezerk, I would loose attention to the finer things in life, like myself!

[Paisleyspeaker]

This is where you and I diverge. I am sending my son to private school immediatly! If I had to homeschool him I would go bezerk, I would loose attention to the finer things in life, like myself!


I am aleady a stay at home mom, so I have some practice at that difficult balancing act. That's why I love naptime so much. And it will become quite reading time when they get older.

[General Septem]

You go girl! Thats absoutly fucking right! Those stupid school systems put themselves to shame with this bullshit. Hell, even the catholic church has sided with evolution.
There you go again, misspelling proper nouns. You're not too smart, are you?

[beelzebub]

There you go again, misspelling proper nouns. You're not too smart, are you?

GS do you want to get into a grammar war again?

[General Septem]

GS do you want to get into a grammar war again?
No, I just don't want you to sit there and tell me how much of an idiot I am yet ignore the most basic building blocks of our very form of communication.

[beelzebub]

No, I just don't want you to sit there and tell me how much of an idiot I am yet ignore the most basic building blocks of our very form of communication.

GS You are an idiot for many reasons in my book. One of which is: You use petty grammar mistakes to vent your irritation with me in place of finding faults in my logic.

[General Septem]

GS You are an idiot for many reasons in my book. One of which is: You use petty grammar mistakes to vent your irritation with me in place of finding faults in my logic.
I wasn't arguing with your logic. If I was I'd have addressed the issues I was arguing with.

I just find it interesting that you can call me an idiot yet not know how to speak English.

[beelzebub]

I wasn't arguing with your logic. If I was I'd have addressed the issues I was arguing with..

Another reason that you are an idiot:
You don’t read/comprehend very well. I said that because you concentrate on that trivial shit I think you are an idiot.


I just find it interesting that you can call me an idiot yet not know how to speak English.

Another you are an idiot:
You comment on things that you don’t have any knowledge on. For instance, you said "speak". You have no knowledge of how I speak. You know how I write bullshit.com that's it.

Get it right.

[General Septem]

Another reason that you are an idiot:
You don’t read/comprehend very well. I said that because you concentrate on that trivial shit I think you are an idiot.

It's not trivial. If you're going to go and spout off "idiot idiot idiot idiot" like a broken record, you had at least better not be one yourself.


Another you are an idiot:
You comment on things that you don’t have any knowledge on. For instance, you said "speak". You have no knowledge of how I speak. You know how I write bullshit.com that's it.

Get it right.
I only said speak because I thought it was obvious. Speaking English encompasses being able to spell too. If you want to argue symantics, then you just can't spell.

[Nairbowsu]

okay, he cant spell, and he doesnt like you. who really cares. and it really doesnt make that much of a difference if you go to public school or not.

[beelzebub]

okay, he cant spell, and he doesnt like you. who really cares. and it really doesnt make that much of a difference if you go to public school or not.

Of course I can spell. He is just bitter because I am smarter than he is and I have won the debate. He never does, he just distracts.

BTW its doesn't

[General Septem]

Of course I can spell. He is just bitter because I am smarter than he is and I have won the debate. He never does, he just distracts.
Debate? The hell? You're so smart that you think we're even involved in any kind of debate in this thread? No, you just wanted to add "I've won the debate" just to make yourself look good. I'm not debating anything. You consistently and deliberately spell "God" and "Catholicism" wrong, and until you correct your grammatical errors you are in no position to say that I'm an idiot.

[beelzebub]

Debate? The bla bla bla nonsense osition to say that I'm an idiot.

You are an idiot. I have won the debate YOU LOST. I have had others read over it and you have not come up with a sensible return. Just bickering and focusing on minutia as usual. Get a life and grow up. You need to take a course in logic and reasoning.

[General Septem]

You are an idiot. I have won the debate YOU LOST. I have had others read over it and you have not come up with a sensible return. Just bickering and focusing on minutia as usual. Get a life and grow up. You need to take a course in logic and reasoning.
Dude. What fucking debate.

[beelzebub]

Dude. What fucking debate.

duhhhh Whether or not you are an idiot! :p

[General Septem]

duhhhh Whether or not you are an idiot! :p
See, I've been debating that you're the idiot. :D

[beelzebub]

See, I've been debating that you're the idiot. :D

yeah,... you lost! ha ha ha ah;)

[General Septem]

yeah,... you lost! ha ha ha ah;)
You haven't proven that. You're the one who can't (or refuses to) spell. :D

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Septem
See, I've been debating that you're the idiot.


yeah,... you lost! ha ha ha ah


Now if you two are really trying to declare a winner of such an ignorant debate then you need an impartial judge to decide which one of you is the "winner." I really think that you'd both be extremely hard pressed to find such a person, (especially considering the topic of the "debate"). Personally, I'd award beelzebub the golden trophy of Grand Idiot at the drop of a hat, but I'm far from impartial to the competitiors.

[Paisleyspeaker]

My husband always says "Don't argue with fools, because from a distance it's hard to tell who is who " I won't repeat what he has said about this site and it's denizens.

[General Septem]

"Don't argue with fools, because from a distance it's hard to tell who is who "
And an idiot will drag you to his level and beat you with experience. :D

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

And an idiot will drag you to his level and beat you with experience. :D


The question is, which idiot is at the lower level?

[beelzebub]

Grand Idiot at the drop of a hat, but I'm far from impartial to the competitiors.

No doubt. You love GS like he is your dick.

[beelzebub]

And an idiot will drag you to his level and beat you with experience. :D

You have tried to that to me GS but I have prevailed. I will not be drug down into the trenches with you.

[General Septem]

You have tried to that to me GS but I have prevailed.
That just means you're a bigger idiot than I am.

[beelzebub]

That just means you're a bigger idiot than I am.

I know that is not true. I have seen your postings. While you have some reasoning, you use trivial examples. This means to me that you never get the real picture.

But anyway. Lets get off this topic. This thread is about education not "who is the biggest idiot"

[General Septem]

I know that is not true. I have seen your postings. While you have some reasoning, you use trivial examples. This means to me that you never get the real picture.

I use trivial examples as a means of comparing one thing to another. Because your brain has a tendency of not understanding things. That's why I compare abortion to other crimes. That's why I compare abortion to the Holocaust. Maybe I'm so samrt [sarcasm] that it all goes over your head.


But anyway. Lets get off this topic. This thread is about education not "who is the biggest idiot"

I disagree. This thread is an excellent poster child of why people should avoid public schools - whether it's because people like you are teaching them, or because people like me are the result of them, depending on whom they agree with.

[beelzebub]

I disagree. This thread is an excellent poster child of why people should avoid public schools - whether it's because people like you are teaching them, or because people like me are the result of them, depending on whom they agree with.

Didn't you say you were home schooled?

[General Septem]

Didn't you say you were home schooled?
Only for the last few years. Before that, I'd been to a Catholic school, a private school, a suburban elementary school, a city middle school, and even a psycho school. None of them worked (they obviously all blamed it on me, though I never had a problem until they started treating it) so we homeschooled. So I've basically seen it all, except of course college, which I may or may not go to.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

So I've basically seen it all, except of course college, which I may or may not go to.

Avoid it. A guy like you will get into an argument with some professor over some stupid little bullshit, and eventually you'll just be booted out because the professor has tenure. $25K flushed down the toilet.

[General Septem]

Avoid it. A guy like you will get into an argument with some professor over some stupid little bullshit,
I used to have that problem, but I don't care enough anymore. I just argue on here because that's what the forum's for. :D

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

In that case, truly figure out what you want to do first. Then figure out if you need a degree to do it. It's a waste of effort and money if you go into college not yet knowing what you want to take out of it.

[General Septem]

In that case, truly figure out what you want to do first. Then figure out if you need a degree to do it. It's a waste of effort and money if you go into college not yet knowing what you want to take out of it.
That's actually not why I'd go. I don't need any degree so that I can prove my intellect to some idiot behind a desk. If I were to go to college, I'd go for the education. I plan to be an entrepreneur, so I'd probably take business courses. I really doubt I'd go to college though. I don't know, it's just not me.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Now that does sound like a waste to me. Why pay a guy to tell you to read a book for his class, (which you have to purchase) when you can just as well find and read it yourself? If you just want the education, college will only point you in the right direction if you don't have the perseverence to force yourself to learn without it. I always got the impression that you don't care for other people telling you how to learn.

[General Septem]

Sometimes a professor can explain things better than a textbook can. Anyway, at this point I'm very much leaning towards not going. I know it's possible to be successful without going to college and I want to prove that to those who believe otherwise.

[normlman]

Sometimes a professor can explain things better than a textbook can. Anyway, at this point I'm very much leaning towards not going. I know it's possible to be successful without going to college and I want to prove that to those who believe otherwise.



you're being a dumbass by thinking like that Gen. Sept. i gotta tell ya, partner. If you don't know that 95% of the hiring goes to the individual with the degree/certification. ... ..try stepping out into the real world.

I read a book once that spoke about Marxism. It said something like: -envision two landscapes. "The first is a field of late spring: flowers, everything growing. Rabbits are running around. Butterflies flutter from blossom to blossom. And lots of birds: robins, chickadees, red-winged black birds, perhaps several pheasants. A woodchuck wanders by. The apple trees are in blossom and birds make their nests in the branches." Sounds like Walt Disney, huh? d'you wonder what the second landscape is? "Just like the first but now we add the cat, the fox, the snake, the hawk, and disease." the point? the first is the landscape people hope is there, the one they like to think they live in. The second is the landscape that exists.
...In the world that exists, a certificate or degree is a neccessity!
-good luck on your final judgement on this "going to school vs. not going"

I can tell you one thing, though. I'm 28 yrs. old and elbow deep in homework, how fk'd up is that? I hate it. ,...but i wish i'd done it 10 yrs. ago! I'm pursuing a Bachelors degree in Business Administration, with a concentration in 'Project Management'. I know the benefit this offers my future. I'm also,...not gonna let my G.I, Bill go to waste. ...but, be that as it may. School is hell'a important!

[normlman]

Now that does sound like a waste to me. Why pay a guy to tell you to read a book for his class, (which you have to purchase) when you can just as well find and read it yourself? If you just want the education, college will only point you in the right direction if you don't have the perseverence to force yourself to learn without it. I always got the impression that you don't care for other people telling you how to learn.
Hey there, Brains_Behind_Operation, -to re-interate what I was telling Gen. Sept. education is paramount in your future...it may seem like it don't do shit for the person you are ..'now'. It probably does'nt/isn't. But, all it's really for is the person you will be in the future. Alot of schools out there are expensive, & they've all got their own little money rackets within the university...or what have you. but you gotta be safe! you gotta be smart! go to school, and become an educated, civilized human...don't be part of the rat race...struggling with bills, looking for employment. It costs $money$ just to live nowa'days.


...-be cool, go to school- (lol)

best regards,
C.G.

[General Septem]

you're being a dumbass by thinking like that Gen. Sept. i gotta tell ya, partner. If you don't know that 95% of the hiring goes to the individual with the degree/certification. ... ..try stepping out into the real world.
Ah, there's your problem: I plan to be an entrepreneuer. Putting one's financial state at the mercy of some tightwad is stupid.

[Harv]

I am an old codger, 71, and my kids all went to public schools in the 60's and 70's and I thought the schools were fairly good. But now I think public schools are being ruined by the influx of illegal Mexicans. I resent having to pay property taxes to support them. Only about 30% of those entering high school graduate. Many of the schools appear to just be "baby sitters". Perhaps 3/4 of the high schools should be closed completely. The kids that wish to graduate would transfer to another school.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

I agree that we shouldn't be spending money on these people who don't show the effort to learn, but I think that closing down 3/4 of public schools is a bit extreme. The Mexicans account for a good proportion of these people refusing education, but there are others who don't care as well, including some of us white-trash. Since this is a waste of tax-payer money the kids who still want to be in school need to show the effort to learn what is being taught, or just not allowed to go. Refusing a person something that they show they don't want is no limit on any of our freedoms.

[Harv]

Back to Insane1's original post on this thread, I think a lot depends on where you reside. In Dallas, with 55% Mexican, 35% Black and only 6% white, by all means private school should be best. More and more people around here are home schooling, and I have read that the results in many cases are better than either public or private schools.

[beelzebub]

Back to Insane1's original post on this thread, I think a lot depends on where you reside. In Dallas, with 55% Mexican, 35% Black and only 6% white, by all means private school should be best. More and more people around here are home schooling, and I have read that the results in many cases are better than either public or private schools.

Sad but true. What I fear is that this movement to private schools will undermine the point of public education and destroy it. Namely public schools provide a free and fair education for all so that the playing field is level.

It’s already happening but there are several changes that my reverse it. There are school systems that are paying their teachers more which attracts better teachers. -And- No child left behind, while horrible in some aspects, is doing well in many other aspects.

I guess time will tell. Perhaps I will have another profession in a few years.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

-And- No child left behind, while horrible in some aspects, is doing well in many other aspects.

How is it doing well? I'm sure that the successful ones are ensuring that every child is learning just as much as every other. But the cost is not worth it. We are spending more money on this new philosophy, and at the same time giving essentially less consideration for the more gifted students. The dumb kids are getting all the attention, and the gifted students end up coasting along not learning nearly as much as they could be under the way things used to be. Not that these students deserve more attention than any others, but at least equal attention is deserved, especially when the outcome of giving the dumb students extra attention ends up being less economic efficiency, which I'm certain that it will.

[beelzebub]

How is it doing well?

It gives a way to evaluate teachers so that you can direct them to change.


I'm sure that the successful ones are ensuring that every child is learning just as much as every other. But the cost is not worth it.

You are not in the eucation field. You have no Idea what you are talking about. That was presumptious. I will admit that it needs work but no one knows if the cost is worth it. In order to really know it will take at least a decade so we can see how these studetns fair as compared to the rest.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

I am not directly in the education field, but not far from it either. A majority of my Mother's family is composed of educators, my sister just started her first year as a teacher, many of my friends are studying education, and I have always had good relations with my teachers and professors. I am still considering to be an educator myself. That said, I've heard many of the same arguments from all these different educators that I know that agree with the message that I posted against the No Child Left Behind act. It is ludicrous simply from the standpoint that MANY schools are just making things easier for the students so that they all move on to the next grade level and the school keeps on getting as much money as the others. So in effect, in many areas, this new act is simply allowing the kids to be dumber than they're capable of.

[beelzebub]

I am not directly in the education field, but not far from it either. A majority of my Mother's family is composed of educators, my sister just started her first year as a teacher, many of my friends are studying education, and I have always had good relations with my teachers and professors. I am still considering to be an educator myself. That said

To me it is like you are saying: My mother is a Doctor and many of my family are in the medical field and I think I will be a doctor too. Therefore my medical opinions are sound. That statement is without merit.

I also disagree with what you have stated. I think in order to truly understand this you need to be in it, studying it and discussing it daily.

I've heard many of the same arguments from all these different educators that I know that agree with the message that I posted against the No Child Left Behind act.

This has no weight, really. Who cares what they say? It is really what you say that is important here.


It is ludicrous simply from the standpoint that MANY schools are just making things easier for the students so that they all move on to the next grade level and the school keeps on getting as much money as the others. So in effect, in many areas, this new act is simply allowing the kids to be dumber than they're capable of.

I have no idea what you are talking about. These tests just unify the topics that are taught. It is not setting the bar too low the states do that. All NCLB says is that they have to have a state test for certain areas.

[General Septem]

I think it's a load of bollocks, myself. One or two kids in the class decide they're not motivated enough to try and learn everything, and all of a sudden everyone's got to suck their dick while the teacher tries to teach them anyway. That was the biggest reason I didn't do well in school. I never learned anything I didn't already know.

When I started sixth grade, I was in the so-called "finest school in the city". And for the first several weeks, I had to sit through homeroom class learning how to read a fucking compass rose. This is something I learned in third grade, in one day. They spent an entire day just coming up with acronyms to help remember NESW, the only problem is that half of them were too stupid to remember that the acronym was supposed to go around the rose clockwise, and the other half didn't even know which way clockwise was. They didn't even go into directions like SE, NW, etc. until the second week, and to my knowledge didn't get into the mind-boggling SSE, NNW, etc. at all (I didn't know because I left for vacation in Hawaii after about two weeks). My confidence in the whole of humanity took a nosedive.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

To me it is like you are saying: My mother is a Doctor and many of my family are in the medical field and I think I will be a doctor too. Therefore my medical opinions are sound. That statement is without merit.


There is a large difference between a Doctor giving a medical opinion and a teacher giving an opinion on a teaching method. That difference is mainly in intelligence. It takes much more intelligence to be a doctor than to be a teacher, which is why the pay for each profession is so different. That said, the fact that I'm not yet employed as an educator should not be reason for you to shun my opinion on any related subject altogether. I may not be a licensed teacher, but that is only because time has not allowed it to happen as of yet. I still converse with people in the profession all the time. Hell, would you not trust my ability to give you CPR because I'm not a doctor?






I have no idea what you are talking about. These tests just unify the topics that are taught. It is not setting the bar too low the states do that. All NCLB says is that they have to have a state test for certain areas.


The states are setting the bar lower because of NCLB. If it weren't there then most students would be learning more while one or two idiots would have to go through it an extra time. Having things the way they were is really only hurting the people who don't care anyways. NCLB is doing just the opposite.

[beelzebub]

There is a large difference between a Doctor giving a medical opinion and a teacher giving an opinion on a teaching method. That difference is mainly in intelligence. It takes much more intelligence to be a doctor than to be a teacher, which is why the pay for each profession is so different.

I don’t agree. Opinions on pedagogy are diverse but that is because there are idiots in education field. Opinions on Medicine are diverse as well because of the same condition found in the education field. I also do not believe that it takes "much more intelligence" to be a doctor than a teacher. I have met complete morons that have been doctors.

The difference in pay is not due to intellectual prowess it is due to demand and supply as well as profit -vs- nonprofit. Doctors are in high demand and work for profit earning organizations or subsidiaries. Teachers are not as high in demand and work for the non-profit government (civil service).

To support my argument look at Canada. Doctors flee from that country to the high paying positions found in the USA. WHY? Because Canada has socialized medicine and doctors are not paid well even though they are in high demand. Furthermore; you need only look at doctors working in the public health arena of the USA for low paid professionals.


That said, the fact that I'm not yet employed as an educator should not be reason for you to shun my opinion on any related subject altogether. I may not be a licensed teacher, but that is only because time has not allowed it to happen as of yet. I still converse with people in the profession all the time. Hell, would you not trust my ability to give you CPR because I'm not a doctor?

Employment as an educator is not the only reason that I don’t have a lot of respect for “your opinion". It because you have not spent time in the education field, because you are extreme in your viewpoint concerning NCLB and your opinion is largely supported/formed from the opinions of your relatives. Furthermore you disregard what I have stated as benefits about NCLB in lieu of your relatives viewpoint. But I don’t shun your opinion. Some of your concerns are valid. I think that it is entirely too soon to decide whether or not it is working.

Accepting CPR from a person is completely different from a discussion of pedagogy. I cannot give you permission or deny you permission to give CPR because I would be passed out. This is a life or death situation and pedagogy is not and lastly CPR trained people can perform just as effectively as doctors.


The states are setting the bar lower because of NCLB. If it weren't there then most students would be learning more while one or two idiots would have to go through it an extra time. Having things the way they were is really only hurting the people who don't care anyways. NCLB is doing just the opposite.

So is the problem with federal NCLB act or the states implementation of the act?
I don’t see any hurt done to the children. All I see are teachers that usually perform at a low level receiving training to perform at a higher level and if they do not respond they can get written up which can lead to loss of pay increase or termination. Teachers that have always performed at a high level are being unaffected. To put it simply: Its directional selection away from low performance.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

I also do not believe that it takes "much more intelligence" to be a doctor than a teacher. I have met complete morons that have been doctors.

I have never agreed with your definition of a complete moron. I've met many more teachers that are not qualified for the job than doctors. The requirements to be a doctor are much higher because the single fault of a doctor is much more dentrimental than any single fault of a teacher. Because of this doctors are REQUIRED to be much more intelligent than teachers are REQUIRED to be. On the average, the mass will meet the requirements.



The difference in pay is not due to intellectual prowess it is due to demand and supply as well as profit -vs- nonprofit.

Why do you think that demand is higher for doctors? The pay is higher, so all else being equal demand should be lower. That is not the case, so demand must be related to the lack of adequate intelligence for doctors.





Employment as an educator is not the only reason that I don’t have a lot of respect for “your opinion". It because you have not spent time in the education field,

I have spent time in the education field in the fact that I am emersed in it through deep conversations with my peers about it on a frequent basis, because I am interested enough in the topic to do more than just blurt out some inane opinion.



But I don’t shun your opinion. Some of your concerns are valid. I think that it is entirely too soon to decide whether or not it is working.

I am not deciding that it is not working, I am stating that the basis that it is built on cannot work.



So is the problem with federal NCLB act or the states implementation of the act?

The states would not be implementing the act in an inadequate way if they did not have to implement the act at all. If the act is going to work, it needs to be revised so that the states cannot implement it improperly or just dropped completely. The way things are going now, on the whole they will only make things worse.

[beelzebub]

Why do you think that demand is higher for doctors? The pay is higher, so all else being equal demand should be lower. That is not the case, so demand must be related to the lack of adequate intelligence for doctors.

So the demand is higher for Teachers than it is for people all sorts of other professions. They make more than we do. We make less. Doesn’t make sense unless you consider at the "NOT FOR PROFIT" factor. I have met lawyers that are working in this venue that are not paid as much as their counterparts. Therefore scarcity is not the single determining factor salary. Neither is intelligence.

Look at Bush.