guitar hero.....w.t.f.?

[yee-haw]

how will the youngans today ever feel the true feeling of picking & strummin' with red and yellow buttons?.......any thoughts?

[WhiteRaven]

Meh, I got interested in the real guitar, by playing guitar hero, and I'm not the only one. Of course, the main problem with that is I don't know how to read guitar music...:(

[1stoic1]

how will the youngans today ever feel the true feeling of picking & strummin' with red and yellow buttons?.......any thoughts?

They wont feel exactly what one might feel 'strumming strings', but then that feeling is no more true than 'pushing buttons', as both are simply dexterous executions.

Whether or not someone prefers a simulation to the actual thing it simulates is inconsequential anyhow.

[General Septem]

They wont feel exactly what one might feel 'strumming strings', but then that feeling is no more true than 'pushing buttons', as both are simply dexterous executions.

Whether or not someone prefers a simulation to the actual thing it simulates is inconsequential anyhow.

It may be a real object, but that doesn't make it a real guitar.

[1stoic1]

It may be a real object, but that doesn't make it a real guitar.

What does this matter?

[General Septem]

What does this matter?

My point is that there is no point to playing guitar hero when you can play a real guitar for a lot cheaper. The only reason people play Guitar Hero is because when you make a game out of it, it's fun. Plus, the way it's set up, you only have half as much to worry about, so it's a lot easier.

It also sounds like shit and is altogether useless for making actual music.

[1stoic1]

My point is that there is no point to playing guitar hero when you can play a real guitar for a lot cheaper. The only reason people play Guitar Hero is because when you make a game out of it, it's fun. Plus, the way it's set up, you only have half as much to worry about, so it's a lot easier.

There obviously is a point to playing it.

[General Septem]

There obviously is a point to playing it.

Yeah, except playing a real guitar is just as fun if you're not a shallow dickhole who needs for everything to be packaged as a "game" in order to consider it fun. What kind of a moron do you have to be for the only things you find fun to be the things that people tell you are fun?

[1stoic1]

Yeah, except playing a real guitar is just as fun if you're not a shallow dickhole who needs for everything to be packaged as a "game" in order to consider it fun. What kind of a moron do you have to be for the only things you find fun to be the things that people tell you are fun?

I suppose any game that involves simulating anything that can be considered fun (ie sports) should be disposed of because you dictate what people should do for their own enjoyment (with a contradictory argument no less). I think people can decide for themselves what is fun for them, and what they prefer to do, and I see no reason to care which they decide either.

[General Septem]

I suppose any game that involves simulating anything that can be considered fun (ie sports) should be disposed of because you dictate what people should do for their own enjoyment (with a contradictory argument no less). I think people can decide for themselves what is fun for them, and what they prefer to do, and I see no reason to care which they decide either.

The thing about sports games is that they don't require you to get off your ass and throw a ball around, even if it's a controller ball. The thing about FPSs is that they don't require you to buy a real gun and put your life on the line killing communists.

Every other simulation you can think of offers some benefit to the original besides simply being a dumbed down version.

The only difference between Guitar Hero and a real guitar is that it is dumbed down (A LOT) and reduced in functionality.

I don't care what people do for entertainment. I am simply saying that, as someone who plays the guitar, Guitar Hero is a pathetic waste of time, a pathetic copy of the real thing, and is marketed toward pathetic assholes with pathetic lives who have nothing better to do than idolize their favorite guitarist and play the guitar exactly like him, but can't be bothered to actually learn how to fucking play the goddamn thing. Your opinion is that there are benefits to Guitar Hero. Your opinion is wrong, and I have no respect for wrong opinions.

Q.E.D.

[ballzack]

I learned to play the guitar on my own. I think I had a record and a book, when I was a kid.
I took a few "lessons' but they were too boring so I gave them up.
I played classical guitar for a while, trying to teach myself to sight-read guitar music. Too much trouble.
So I just play the chords, and ad-lib the rest.

I guess the point is, I enjoy it. I'm not great, but who cares. My dogs don't seem to mind my playing. :)

[General Septem]

I learned to play the guitar on my own. I think I had a record and a book, when I was a kid.
I took a few "lessons' but they were too boring so I gave them up.
I played classical guitar for a while, trying to teach myself to sight-read guitar music. Too much trouble.
So I just play the chords, and ad-lib the rest.

I guess the point is, I enjoy it. I'm not great, but who cares. My dogs don't seem to mind my playing. :)

I don't really play well anymore either, to be honest. But whether you're sight reading (never had much luck with that myself, and I played sheet music for over ten years!), playing by ear, or improvising, it's a lot more brain-engaging than playing the right color fret as it appears on screen. :D

[ballzack]

I don't really play well anymore either, to be honest. But whether you're sight reading (never had much luck with that myself, and I played sheet music for over ten years!), playing by ear, or improvising, it's a lot more brain-engaging than playing the right color fret as it appears on screen. :D

Yes, true.
Sounds like an "Autoharp" to me. In guitar form.

Part of the "fun" for me was figuring out how to finger the chords. And how to do "variations" on the chords. It relaxes me and helps expand the mind.
I think, personally, if I were just pushing a button to get a, A chord, as an example, it would be like playing an Autohard. Just push a button and strum the chord. Removes the fun of MAKING music, IMO.

[WhiteRaven]

It could be good practice for a real guitar, a gradual transition from a few buttons to memorizing strings and chords, rather than trying to learn them all at once. People could first learn to match colors and shit, and then learn the more complex real guitar.

Also, a cheap guitar costs $120. A copy of Guitar Hero 3 with the guitar controller costs $90, or was it $80...

At least that's what it is for me *shrugs*

[ballzack]

I actually taught myself to play the keyboard via guitar.

I remember sitting down and strumming an "E" chord.
Figuring out how to play that "Note-for-note" on the piano, and going from there.
Got good enough to play keyboards in a band. I'd sight read the guitar chords on sheet music and improvise from there.

I have heard a few Jazz musicians (Union Cats - REAL musicians) tell me that they do the same thing.

They read guitar chords and improvise from there.

Interesting.

[General Septem]

Also, a cheap guitar costs $120. A copy of Guitar Hero 3 with the guitar controller costs $90, or was it $80...

A cheap "good" guitar costs $120, but you can get a guitar for literally any price you want. It may just be a piece of shit, but not as much as Guitar Hero.

[1stoic1]

The thing about sports games is that they don't require you to get off your ass and throw a ball around, even if it's a controller ball.

And Guitar Hero doesn't require you to learn a craft.


I am simply saying that, as someone who plays the guitar, Guitar Hero is a pathetic waste of time

Irrelevant.


a pathetic copy of the real thing, and is marketed toward pathetic assholes with pathetic lives who have nothing better to do than idolize their favorite guitarist and play the guitar exactly like him, but can't be bothered to actually learn how to fucking play the goddamn thing.

Because they play a game, they have nothing better to do than play that game? That is about as valid as them actually having better things to do, and so they don't bother obsessing over an artform that is marketed toward "pathetic assholes with pathetic lives who have nothing better to do than idolize their favorite guitarists and follow in their footsteps."


Your opinion is that there are benefits to Guitar Hero. Your opinion is wrong, and I have no respect for wrong opinions.


Other than throwing a tantrum about what people ought to do for fun, you have not shown with reason how I am wrong.

[General Septem]

And Guitar Hero doesn't require you to learn a craft.

Which isn't necessarily a benefit. I don't play sports games either. The point of playing sports is to get off your ass and move around. There is no benefit of a sedentary lifestyle as opposed to an active lifestyle, and there is no benefit to something that removes all brain interaction as opposed to something that offers all the same benefits except it actually requires you to use your brain.

Minimizing exerted effort is only a benefit if the effort only serves as a waste of resources.


Irrelevant.

It's relevant because it's my opinion, and that's all we're talking about here.


Other than throwing a tantrum about what people ought to do for fun,

I could care less what people "ought" to do, I'm just saying it's pathetic.


you have not shown with reason how I am wrong.

Because you're a dumbass.

[WhiteRaven]

"Because they play a game, they have nothing better to do than play that game? That is about as valid as them actually having better things to do, and so they don't bother obsessing over an artform that is marketed toward "pathetic assholes with pathetic lives who have nothing better to do than idolize their favorite guitarists and follow in their footsteps.""

With guitar hero, you can only play songs other people wrote.

With a real guitar you can learn to write your own songs.

[LedZap]

I had a gas playing Guitar Hero 3 untill I burned down my house when I played that pirated Jimi Hendrix disc that made me light the guitar on fire at the end of the song !

[1stoic1]

The point of playing sports is to get off your ass and move around.

People 'moved around' plenty during the inception of sporting activities. You may perceive 'moving around' as the point of playing sports while living in a modern era of conveniences, but the actual point has and continues to be entertainment.


There is no benefit of a sedentary lifestyle as opposed to an active lifestyle

Enjoying a video game does not necessitate a sedentary lifestyle, but when considering this as part of your argument, a contradiction surfaces:


The thing about sports games is that they don't require you to get off your ass

...as if that is a benefit to playing sports games.


and there is no benefit to something that removes all brain interaction as opposed to something that offers all the same benefits except it actually requires you to use your brain.

If someone doesn't want to use their brain during their leisure time, then they shouldn't have to.


It's relevant because it's my opinion, and that's all we're talking about here.

What is irrelevant is you being a guitar player.


I could care less what people "ought" to do, I'm just saying it's pathetic.

It is no more pathetic than actually playing guitar.


Because you're a dumbass.

How so?

[WhiteRaven]

"How so?"

because when people call you a dumbass you respond with that.

[1stoic1]

With guitar hero, you can only play songs other people wrote.

You're not 'playing' their songs. You're executing a hand\eye coordination exercise under the theme of guitar playing. It is a guise for guitar playing, but a different animal.


With a real guitar you can learn to write your own songs.

And with Guitar Hero, you can save time and do something else, rather than:

Obsessing over an artform that is marketed toward pathetic assholes with pathetic lives who have nothing better to do than idolize their favorite guitarists and follow in their footsteps.

This accusation is as valid as General Septem's.

[1stoic1]

"How so?"

because when people call you a dumbass you respond with that.

How does asking for clarification make me a dumbass?

[WhiteRaven]

well, for starters, when people call you a dumbass, they are expressing annoyance at you, not necessarily insulting, or at least they don't necessarily mean that you are actually a dumbass.

Other times they find your logic to be flawed, and that's the reason they are calling you that.

Asking for clarification in either situation is absurd, because the reason for the insult is usually over. and in the rare cases where they actually think you are a dumbass 24/7 you aren't going to get your clarification.

"Obsessing over an artform that is marketed toward pathetic assholes with pathetic lives who have nothing better to do than idolize their favorite guitarists and follow in their footsteps."

A guitarist doesn't have to follow in anyone's footsteps other than in the case of just being a guitarist.

"You're not 'playing' their songs. You're executing a hand\eye coordination exercise under the theme of guitar playing. It is a guise for guitar playing, but a different animal."

Thank you Lord Semantics!

Alright then, if you play guitar hero, you can only execute a hand/eye coordination exercise under the theme of guitar playing to other people's songs. With a real guitar you can write your own songs which can also be considered a hand/eye coordination exercise.

[General Septem]

People 'moved around' plenty during the inception of sporting activities. You may perceive 'moving around' as the point of playing sports while living in a modern era of conveniences, but the actual point has and continues to be entertainment.

Sports were a way of competing and passing the time when there wasn't a war going on. It may be entertaining but it's also healthy.


Enjoying a video game does not necessitate a sedentary lifestyle

I didn't say it does, I play video games myself. I said there's no point to Guitar Hero.


...as if that is a benefit to playing sports games.

I didn't say it was a benefit. I don't play sports games either. But at the very least I can see if you wanted to play football and it happened to be raining outside, or you didn't happen to have fifteen other guys to play with. Perhaps you have a sprained ankle but still wanted to engage the brain part of it. Unlike Guitar Hero, some sports games do at least involve using your brain.


If someone doesn't want to use their brain during their leisure time, then they shouldn't have to.

I never said they should "have to" do anything. I am merely stating that choosing an activity that detaches yourself from all brain involvement when you could be doing something just as entertaining that will benefit your brain, e.g., playing a real guitar, is fucking weak.


It is no more pathetic than actually playing guitar.

You wouldn't know, since you obviously don't play the guitar yourself. Playing any real musical instrument is a highly beneficial activity for one's brain development.


How so?

For starters, you continually insinuate things I have explicitly denied. For instance, you keep bringing up things like "doesn't mean they should have to" and "people can do what they want", even though I have never said otherwise. Obviously you do not understand debating for the sake of debating, because you seem to be under the impression that every debate has to lead to a real life decision. That is why you're a dumbass.

[1stoic1]

well, for starters, when people call you a dumbass, they are expressing annoyance at you, not necessarily insulting, or at least they don't necessarily mean that you are actually a dumbass.

Other times they find your logic to be flawed, and that's the reason they are calling you that.

Asking for clarification in either situation is absurd, because the reason for the insult is usually over. and in the rare cases where they actually think you are a dumbass 24/7 you aren't going to get your clarification.

If they are annoyed, then it is irrelevant. If my logic is flawed, then they should be able to explain how. If they explain how, and they are correct, then I learn something. If they explain how, and they are in error, then they are the dumbass who could learn something. If they do not explain how, then I must assume that they are just annoyed, which is irrelevant.

Asking for clarification is progressive.


A guitarist doesn't have to follow in anyone's footsteps other than in the case of just being a guitarist.

And a person playing GH isn't necessarily without something better to do.


Thank you Lord Semantics!

Alright then, if you play guitar hero, you can only execute a hand/eye coordination exercise under the theme of guitar playing to other people's songs. With a real guitar you can write your own songs which can also be considered a hand/eye coordination exercise.

True, but one aspires to tally points and reach an endgame objective with no obligation to any strict musical operation (ie only a vague correlation between a few buttons and several notes\tones), the other aspires to make music.

[1stoic1]

I didn't say it does, I play video games myself. I said there's no point to Guitar Hero.

Then "There is no benefit of a sedentary lifestyle as opposed to an active lifestyle" was irrelevant.


I didn't say it was a benefit. I don't play sports games either. But at the very least I can see if you wanted to play football and it happened to be raining outside, or you didn't happen to have fifteen other guys to play with. Perhaps you have a sprained ankle but still wanted to engage the brain part of it. Unlike Guitar Hero, some sports games do at least involve using your brain.

Me: I suppose any game that involves simulating anything that can be considered fun (ie sports) should be disposed of.

You: The thing about sports games is that they don't require you to get off your ass.

So if you weren't mentioning a benefit, then that must have been an irrelevant comment as well. Also, just as you prefer 'using your brain' as opposed to not 'using your brain', a person who would prefer the physical act of football would not be satisfied with a nonphysical simulation of it.


I never said they should "have to" do anything. I am merely stating that choosing an activity that detaches yourself from all brain involvement when you could be doing something just as entertaining that will benefit your brain, e.g., playing a real guitar, is fucking weak.

Playing guitar is a different animal than GH, so it is not going to be 'just as entertaining' for everyone. It also does not detach you from 'all brain involvement' anymore than countless other reflexive property games.


You wouldn't know, since you obviously don't play the guitar yourself. Playing any real musical instrument is a highly beneficial activity for one's brain development.

Not more beneficial than maths and sciences. The level of mental involvement in playing a musical instrument is weaker in comparison, and so if you play music during your pastime rather than study and engage in those subjects, then you are pathetic.


For starters, you continually insinuate things I have explicitly denied. For instance, you keep bringing up things like "doesn't mean they should have to" and "people can do what they want", even though I have never said otherwise.

Yes you have. You determined that if it is not to your standards of mental involvement, then it is weak, pathetic, etc. If you weren't saying they should do otherwise according to your standards, then you must condone weak and pathetic people, and so you have no issue with GH.


Obviously you do not understand debating for the sake of debating, because you seem to be under the impression that every debate has to lead to a real life decision. That is why you're a dumbass.

Why wouldn't it lead to a real life decision? Do you not think before you act? Or are you a hypocrit of some sort for saying one thing in a debate and not following through? You aren't making sense here.

[WhiteRaven]

"Not more beneficial than maths and sciences. The level of mental involvement in playing a musical instrument is weaker in comparison, and so if you play music during your pastime rather than study and engage in those subjects, then you are pathetic."

Those things all pertain to different areas of the brain. Also, Math isn't fun.


Then "There is no benefit of a sedentary lifestyle as opposed to an active lifestyle" was irrelevant.

Because it certainly isn't possible to play video games, AND have an active lifestyle.

[General Septem]

Then "There is no benefit of a sedentary lifestyle as opposed to an active lifestyle" was irrelevant.

No, it's relevant, in that Guitar Hero is sedentary for the brain.


So if you weren't mentioning a benefit, then that must have been an irrelevant comment as well. Also, just as you prefer 'using your brain' as opposed to not 'using your brain', a person who would prefer the physical act of football would not be satisfied with a nonphysical simulation of it.

I don't imagine they would. Hell, I wouldn't. But at the very least, sports video games engage the brain as much as their real life counterparts do, and at least not requiring physical activity is a benefit if you are injured.


It also does not detach you from 'all brain involvement' anymore than countless other reflexive property games.

All of which are a waste of time.


Not more beneficial than maths and sciences. The level of mental involvement in playing a musical instrument is weaker in comparison, and so if you play music during your pastime rather than study and engage in those subjects, then you are pathetic.

Wrong, music engages the right brain. Math and science engage the left brain. Apparently, you don't have enough of a right brain, which explains a lot.


Yes you have. You determined that if it is not to your standards of mental involvement, then it is weak, pathetic, etc. If you weren't saying they should do otherwise according to your standards, then you must condone weak and pathetic people, and so you have no issue with GH.

This is why you're a dumbass. Just because I say something is a waste of time doesn't mean I intend to dictate how others waste their time. Leave the fools to their fate.

[WhiteRaven]

"Wrong, music engages the right brain. Math and science engage the left brain. Apparently, you don't have enough of a right brain, which explains a lot."

He probably doesn't count the right brain as part of the brain, since it's the emotional part. Pseudo-intellectual morons always reject anything involving emotions. Of course this is bullshit, because it has been shown that people whose emotions are not functioning correctly or at all, are also unable to make proper decisions.

[General Septem]

He probably doesn't count the right brain as part of the brain, since it's the emotional part. Pseudo-intellectual morons always reject anything involving emotions. Of course this is bullshit, because it has been shown that people whose emotions are not functioning correctly or at all, are also unable to make proper decisions.

Lacking emotion can make it almost impossible to function in a society where consideration of others is often important. But the right brain is also the creative side. Without it, the arts would not exist, but also the majority of all inventions wouldn't either. Creativity has scores of practical applications besides entertainment.

Stoic reminds me of all the liberals who are completely right brained and can't think rationally to save their lives, except he's entirely left brained and can't think in the abstract to save his life.

[Paisleyspeaker]

Wow such vehemence wasted on discussion of a game.

Time for my two cents. I can kinda play a real guitar ( Like Zack I can strum my way through a few songs- mostly Simon and Garfunkle) and I play Guitar Hero two and three. Of course pushing colored buttons doesn't really compare to the real thing. But they are both exersises in hand eye coordination and the video game does accomplish three things: it helps with rhythm (there is rhythm and order to when you push the buttons), it fosters a greater appreciation for music (you realize just how many notes they play in such a short period of time and think - shit I can barely hit these buttons in time, this guy/girl is really fricken talented) and finally it's fun and isn't that really why you paid for it in the first place !!! :rolleyes:

and by the way General - this isn't nessecarily a lazy game, I like to play standing up and rockin out.:D

[WhiteRaven]

Lacking emotion can make it almost impossible to function in a society where consideration of others is often important. But the right brain is also the creative side. Without it, the arts would not exist, but also the majority of all inventions wouldn't either. Creativity has scores of practical applications besides entertainment.

Stoic reminds me of all the liberals who are completely right brained and can't think rationally to save their lives, except he's entirely left brained and can't think in the abstract to save his life.

Agreed. There are also a thousand other important things the right brain does, of course. As for emotion, there are people who lack the ability to experience them, and they are NOT Rational thought personified, They are in fact, unable to make any decisions at all. They are also unable to learn from past mistakes.

[1stoic1]

No, it's relevant, in that Guitar Hero is sedentary for the brain.

Yet playing it does not necessitate, promote, or even suggest a sedentary lifestyle, so the contrasts between sedentary and active lifestyles are irrelevant.


I don't imagine they would. Hell, I wouldn't. But at the very least, sports video games engage the brain as much as their real life counterparts do, and at least not requiring physical activity is a benefit if you are injured.

Physical activity has it's own particular engagement with the brain, and so a simulation without that aspect cannot suffice in the same way. If an injured person is fulfilled by that simulation, then that is a matter of preference where importance on the physical activity is not stressed, which is no different than someone who does not stress the importance of playing a musical instrument when playing a game under the guise of a musical instrument.


All of which are a waste of time.

Obviously not if they are fun for someone.


Wrong, music engages the right brain. Math and science engage the left brain. Apparently, you don't have enough of a right brain, which explains a lot.

This is no more of a potent argument than me referencing what areas of the brain that GH engages, and in which sense, shares an equal significance with the other activities pertaining to their region in question.

If a specific region of the brain is either injured or destroyed, it's functions can sometimes be recovered by a neighboring region, even in the opposite hemisphere, and so your argument loses even more cogency.


This is why you're a dumbass. Just because I say something is a waste of time doesn't mean I intend to dictate how others waste their time. Leave the fools to their fate.

Apathy is irrational. Why would you oppose something and not want it to change? Seems like you just want things to complain about.

[1stoic1]

Also, Math isn't fun.

You must be pathetic if math isn't fun for you.


Because it certainly isn't possible to play video games, AND have an active lifestyle.

You are confused, and late. That was neither my proclamation, nor did General Septem mean to imply that (according to him) despite it's irrelevancy.

[WhiteRaven]

If a specific region of the brain is either injured or destroyed, it's functions can sometimes be recovered by a neighboring region, even in the opposite hemisphere, and so your argument loses even more cogency.


Not without damage to that regions normal function.

[1stoic1]

Not without damage to that regions normal function.

The point is that certain brain functions are not bound categorically to certain areas of operation, which depreciates the significance of purporting a value in a physical lateralization of our mental processes.

[General Septem]

Apathy is irrational. Why would you oppose something and not want it to change?

Because of something called personal responsibility. Junk food is bad for you too, but that doesn't mean it should be illegal. After all, the only person who ends up paying for it is the person who was stupid enough to do it in the first place.

Banning things that are unhealthy doesn't make people less stupid, it just makes those who are stupid less likely to hurt themselves. We should be allowed to make stupid decisions, because it encourages people to not be stupid and assume that others will hold their hand through life.

[1stoic1]

Because of something called personal responsibility. Junk food is bad for you too, but that doesn't mean it should be illegal. After all, the only person who ends up paying for it is the person who was stupid enough to do it in the first place.

Banning things that are unhealthy doesn't make people less stupid, it just makes those who are stupid less likely to hurt themselves. We should be allowed to make stupid decisions, because it encourages people to not be stupid and assume that others will hold their hand through life.

Upon critical consideration from many would shift our collective paradigm to where bans are not just ethically obsolete in being (mostly) tyrannical, but functionally obsolete due to the capacity of a rational consensus. Of course people are allowed to make poor decisions, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't care to reason with them to change.

[General Septem]

Of course people are allowed to make poor decisions, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't care to reason with them to change.

Of course, but it rarely does any good, and often does quite the opposite. Some people simply refuse to listen when you tell them anything that threatens an irrational belief they are so used to. This is why, when arguing with Democrats, 90% of one's argument is entirely ignored.

[yee-haw]

Upon critical consideration from many would shift our collective paradigm to where bans are not just ethically obsolete in being (mostly) tyrannical, but functionally obsolete due to the capacity of a rational consensus. Of course people are allowed to make poor decisions, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't care to reason with them to change.

Huh?

Sorry, 1stoic1 I'm from the south, Can you put that in laymen terms.

[WhiteRaven]

He said bans are stupid.

[yee-haw]

He said bans are stupid.

Thank you.