Le Tour De' France!

[ballzack]

Even with the bullshit doping allegations, the super bowl of endurance sports is upon us.

Watching these guys rack up 100 plus miles per day, some with steep climbes through mountains like the Pyrenees, is amazing.

Phenominal athletes.

[England Expects]

Great, another chance to see which drug-cheat can cycle the farthest/fastest.

Then we get the olympics, so we can see which drug-cheat can run/throw/jump farthest/fastest.

What a great year for sports.

I hate summer; no rugby.

[General Septem]

Great, another chance to see which drug-cheat can cycle the farthest/fastest.

Then we get the olympics, so we can see which drug-cheat can run/throw/jump farthest/fastest.

What a great year for sports.

I hate summer; no rugby.

Every single competitive sport involves steroids. You can't even compete without them anymore. I don't see it as cheating, anymore than any other form of training is cheating. You seem to think steroids are a quick fix, they are not.

[England Expects]

I'm just not impressed by sportsmen who break the rules to gain an advantage.

Cycling and athletics are rife with it. You're right, it may happen in most sports but that doesn't condone it.

[General Septem]

I'm just not impressed by sportsmen who break the rules to gain an advantage.

Cycling and athletics are rife with it. You're right, it may happen in most sports but that doesn't condone it.

There's nothing wrong with it, it's a bullshit rule to begin with. Something only gives you an unfair advantage if the other guy isn't doing it, and there's nothing stopping him anyway.

[ballzack]

I'm just not impressed by sportsmen who break the rules to gain an advantage.

Cycling and athletics are rife with it. You're right, it may happen in most sports but that doesn't condone it.

EE

As an endurance athlete, I can tell you I do not do steroids or anything that enhances my performance artificially. I work hard to maintain excellent cardio and endurance.

Two things. Floyd Landis was never PROVEN to have used anything. He had elevated levels of testosterone. WTF!!!??? Take my levels after a 2 mile swim, 100 mile bike, and 27 mile run!!! I'll have elevated levels too!!! Males typically generate testosterone in the large muscle groups, LIKE LEGS. Duh. And guess what muscle groups you use on the bike. Hmmm.
Could it be the French maybe had had enough of Americans winning the tour, EIGHT years in a row? I wonder. You can't rule that out.

Now, did Basso, Urlich, Hamilton and others "blood dope"? Maybe. They went away very quietly, and that tells me they probably were doping. But I do not believe Landis was, nor do I believe Armstrong was.

It's still a great sport. I am in top physcal condtion as an endurance athlete, and I could not hold a candle to these guys. I could maybe do two or three stages. Then I'd be toast. I'd be whimpering in my hotel begging for Ibuprophen and a massage therapist!

And General has a point. If everyone was blood doping, then who gives a shit? I remember back in the 70's blood doping was all the rage in running! You'd train at high elevation, draw some blood, go to a lower elevation, and put the enriched red blood cell pint back in to you. It was status-quo.
Now it's frowned upon.

As a European, you should embrace the tour. Hell, it's an event! Last year, the first stage started in England, as you know. I think it's exciting. Not that Rugby isn't. That is freaking rugged sport. Hat's off to you. But for endurance and grueling athletics, you have to give it to the tour boys.

I still watch it. And I believe that it will survive the BS doping allegations. It's an icon!

Cheers!

-Zack

[England Expects]

There's nothing wrong with it, it's a bullshit rule to begin with. Something only gives you an unfair advantage if the other guy isn't doing it, and there's nothing stopping him anyway.

I don't know if you've heard of a guy called Dwain Chambers. He's a British sprinter that was caught and banned a few years ago. He's big news at the minute, because he looks like he's running fast enough to qualify for Beijing. The problem being any british athlete caught cheating is banned from taking part in the Olympics for life. He's been in court to challenge the life ban.

If you de-regulate the doping laws, then kids coming through will be under pressure to use them. Chambers took testosterone, EPO, THG, Insulin, Modafinil and Liothyronine.

They are not safe for adults, let alone children. I'm sure, as you're into weight training you don't need to be told of the damage an adolescent can do to his body by simply over-training before his body is developed enough to cope with the strain; everything from skeletal structural problems to osteoporosis. What kind of lasting damage would they be doing if they were pressurised to use the kind of stuff that Chambers did?

[England Expects]

EE

As an endurance athlete, I can tell you I do not do steroids or anything that enhances my performance artificially. I work hard to maintain excellent cardio and endurance.

Two things. Floyd Landis was never PROVEN to have used anything. He had elevated levels of testosterone. WTF!!!??? Take my levels after a 2 mile swim, 100 mile bike, and 27 mile run!!! I'll have elevated levels too!!! Males typically generate testosterone in the large muscle groups, LIKE LEGS. Duh. And guess what muscle groups you use on the bike. Hmmm.
Could it be the French maybe had had enough of Americans winning the tour, EIGHT years in a row? I wonder. You can't rule that out.

Now, did Basso, Urlich, Hamilton and others "blood dope"? Maybe. They went away very quietly, and that tells me they probably were doping. But I do not believe Landis was, nor do I believe Armstrong was.

It's still a great sport. I am in top physcal condtion as an endurance athlete, and I could not hold a candle to these guys. I could maybe do two or three stages. Then I'd be toast. I'd be whimpering in my hotel begging for Ibuprophen and a massage therapist!

And General has a point. If everyone was blood doping, then who gives a shit? I remember back in the 70's blood doping was all the rage in running! You'd train at high elevation, draw some blood, go to a lower elevation, and put the enriched red blood cell pint back in to you. It was status-quo.
Now it's frowned upon.

As a European, you should embrace the tour. Hell, it's an event! Last year, the first stage started in England, as you know. I think it's exciting. Not that Rugby isn't. That is freaking rugged sport. Hat's off to you. But for endurance and grueling athletics, you have to give it to the tour boys.

I still watch it. And I believe that it will survive the BS doping allegations. It's an icon!

Cheers!

-Zack

There's no doubt that their endurance is incredible; super-human in fact. To many people watching though, it's reputation is tarnished by allegations and suspicion. It has alot to do to rebuild its reputation. I hope they test everyone this year, and ban those that fail, for LIFE!!

The damage that the cheats do to the whole of the sport justifies the ban. If they clean it up this year, I might just watch it.....next year.

[ballzack]

There's no doubt that their endurance is incredible; super-human in fact. To many people watching though, it's reputation is tarnished by allegations and suspicion. It has alot to do to rebuild its reputation. I hope they test everyone this year, and ban those that fail, for LIFE!!

The damage that the cheats do to the whole of the sport justifies the ban. If they clean it up this year, I might just watch it.....next year.

Watch it? Hell, if I were you, I'd BE THERE!!! ;)

ADDED!
Hey, E.E. , Mark Cavindish just won his third stage! First Englishman ever to win three stages in TDF.
Congrats to him and your country.

[General Septem]

They are not safe for adults, let alone children.

Certainly they're not safe for children, but I do believe that it is more than possible for an adult to use them responsibly. You would be amazed by how many athletes use steroids, and by far the biggest danger when done responsibly is getting caught.

I can almost guarantee that every single NFL player, every single professional rugby player, every single professional bodybuilder all take anabolic steroids. Yet the only story you ever hear of steroids causing medical complications are cases in which they are abused (i.e., used irresponsibly), and the case of that pussy Gregg Valentino who got an infection because of a dirty needle. Any drug will give you an infection if you shoot it up with an infected needle. Not to mention that cock was really shooting oil into his biceps to make them bigger, and then went on to tell everyone it was steroids. No, he doesn't even have steroids to thank for his absurdly sized biceps.


I'm sure, as you're into weight training you don't need to be told of the damage an adolescent can do to his body by simply over-training before his body is developed enough to cope with the strain; everything from skeletal structural problems to osteoporosis. What kind of lasting damage would they be doing if they were pressurised to use the kind of stuff that Chambers did?

Overtraining is a commonly used excuse for what really boils down to lack of rest, lack of nutrition, or lack of ambition. 99% of the time if someone is "overtraining", it's not because they're training too hard but rather that they have not changed their lifestyle to accommodate the additional demands of training heavy.

Learn to listen to your body and it won't happen. Your brain has a center called the hypothalamus, which knows exactly what nutrients your body needs to survive and makes you crave them. I heard about a guy whose hypothalamus saved his life when he was stranded at sea and began craving fish scales and eyeballs. As it turned out, those parts contained vitamins that he needed to survive. Anyone who knows me can tell you that I am a total pussy when it comes to getting enough sleep. I know I need eight hours and that's that, and if I don't get at least seven there's a good chance I won't hit the gym the next day.

Anabolic steroids actually function by preventing your body from breaking down too much, allowing you to train more without hurting yourself (this is why genetics and hard work are still important, and why not everybody who takes steroids looks like Arnold). I'm still not saying they're good for children, but they help the body recover, not break down even more.

[England Expects]

Hey, E.E. , Mark Cavindish just won his third stage! First Englishman ever to win three stages in TDF.
Congrats to him and your country.

That's cool. If he continues to do well, I'm sure interest in the sport will pick up over here. I checked the TV for coverage and I cant find it anywhere!!

[England Expects]

Gen,

I cant speak for body builders or NFL, but elite rugby players are tested stringently by the IRB. That's not to say it doesn't happen, but I don't believe its widespread in our sport.

Most players, including myself take a creatine supplement, which is permitted but that is about it.

I agree, if all steroids were permitted, the competition would be fair but I think that would be a danger to athletes who would undoubtedly put short term gains before possible health problems that could last a lifetime. Especially to teenagers that know if they can excel and make it to an elite level, they could earn lots of money. The pressure on those kids is enormous already.

[ballzack]

That's cool. If he continues to do well, I'm sure interest in the sport will pick up over here. I checked the TV for coverage and I cant find it anywhere!!

That really IS great! An Englishman riding on an American Team? Yow! The Germans would say "The worst of all possibilities!" :D
But seriously, He's teriffic. What a sprinter. He's insanely fast.

Here in the states, we get the TDF on a chanel called Versus (formerly the Outdoor Life Channel). Only available on Cable. Unless you want to pay the fee and watch it on the internet.

I would think that in England, it would be on broadcast television. Here in the states, professional cycling has never caught on as a mainstream sport like it has in Europe.

Here is a link to read about his victory: http://www.bicycling.com/tourdefrance/article/0,6802,s1-7-123-17618-1,00.html

enjoy!
-zack

[General Septem]

I cant speak for body builders or NFL, but elite rugby players are tested stringently by the IRB. That's not to say it doesn't happen, but I don't believe its widespread in our sport.

The NFL claims to test their players stringently too, the thing is they don't. I am positive that in almost every sport, officials and managers clandestinely use "drug tests" as threats, because they know a player will fail it. I can't speak for rugby since I don't watch it, but I would imagine they do as well, since rugby is supposedly a lot more brutal than American Football.


Most players, including myself take a creatine supplement, which is permitted but that is about it.

I take that too, and glutamine which speeds recovery.


I agree, if all steroids were permitted, the competition would be fair but I think that would be a danger to athletes who would undoubtedly put short term gains before possible health problems that could last a lifetime. Especially to teenagers that know if they can excel and make it to an elite level, they could earn lots of money. The pressure on those kids is enormous already.

I think if steroids were allowed, they could be controlled and people could be given common sense advice instead of obvious propaganda. It's the same problem with every other illegal drug, nobody really believes all the scare tactics, and unfortunately some of what they say is true. If a drug is truly bad they shouldn't have to make up or exaggerate the risks.

Basically what I'm saying is, if they did this then they would be able to truthfully say that steroids are bad for children and then they would not be as pressured to do it, it would be assumed they would eventually use them responsibly as adults when their bodies can handle it.

[England Expects]

That really IS great! An Englishman riding on an American Team? Yow! The Germans would say "The worst of all possibilities!" :D
But seriously, He's teriffic. What a sprinter. He's insanely fast.

Here in the states, we get the TDF on a chanel called Versus (formerly the Outdoor Life Channel). Only available on Cable. Unless you want to pay the fee and watch it on the internet.

I would think that in England, it would be on broadcast television. Here in the states, professional cycling has never caught on as a mainstream sport like it has in Europe.

Here is a link to read about his victory: http://www.bicycling.com/tourdefrance/article/0,6802,s1-7-123-17618-1,00.html

enjoy!
-zack

Thanks for that Zack.

I saw it on the news this morning, and it looks as though EuroSport are covering it.

I'll check it out on Monday, if only for the novelty or being able to support an English/American effort;)

Wouldn't the French just hate it if he won?!?! Zut alors!

[ballzack]

You know E.E., you speak more truth than you know. I hate to say this, but I lived in France for a while, and I speak fairly fluent French. I have a "New York" accent with my French, so they say, thus they know I am an American, even though my French is very good. Thus they treated me as an American - if you kow what I mean.

They really WOULD HATE IT if Cavendish continued to win, especially on an AMERICAN team! I truly believe that that's why Floyd Landis was called on the carpet (IMO) bogusly for elevated levels of testosterone. The French really did not want to continue to mess with Armstrong - he was becoming a legend, and they did not want the heat on that. But Landis was the 8th time in a row an American won THEIR sport. Bad enough an Englishman, but an AMERICAN?

As I told a friend of mine in France (he happens to be Brittish), It would be like an American Rugby team going over to England and kicking the hell out of every English team to the championship for eight years. But at least England would RESPECT that. The French HATE IT! :D

But I got off track. Cavindish is AMAZING. He alone may help bring back the sport. If you get a chance to catch his final 100 meter sprint out of the Peleton yesterday, you'll see he is a blazing rocket. Phil Liggett called him "the fastest man in the world" yesterday. He's one of my new faves. To me, he is the sport's focal point at present. I'm excited! I hope Cavindish wins the Tour! I'll have a Guiness for you guys! (and I don't drink!). :)

Oh, forgot to add for my French friends: Certainement, Un Anglais sur une équipe Américaine ?.....Zut alors en effet!
(whew, my French is Rusty but I think that's in the ballpark)

[England Expects]

He won his 4th in a row!!

I caught some of the coverage on Eurosport yesterday, and the 2 guys doing the commentary completely spoil it.

Having said that, I'll keep watching the highlight show in the evenings and following on the net.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/7514166.stm

[ballzack]

He's human lightning on 2 wheels!

Freaking fast. He destroyed every big name sprinter on the tour. Rocketed right past them.

When I saw him explode out of the peleton on the final 100 meters to the line on his third win, I could not believe it.

I'd love to see him win the tour. He's not a bad climber, and much of the tour is won in the mountains - i.e., Armstrong. This guy would be the next icon in Cycling, and a reason to take back the Tour from the BS doping that is tarnishing the reputation.

Exciting stuff.

[England Expects]

Sorry to disappoint you Zack, but it said on the news that he'll probably be pulling out of the tour this week to take part in the Olympics.

Which begs the question, why bother starting something that you know you cant finish???

[ballzack]

That absolutely sucks, E.E.

I missed that one in the news over here.

Yow. Well the tour definately has issues with finding heros to pull it out of the muck.

Hope he stays in. Can't imagine pulling out of the TDF for the Olympics. As you said, he started the tour. Finish it!