How fucking stupid can people get?!

[freakazoid]

How fucking stupid can people get?!

Pharmaceutical giants Merck and GlaxoSmithKline are gearing up for a bruising showdown with America's religious right after the US medicines regulator approved a new blockbuster cervical cancer vaccine last week.

Conservative groups, including the influential Family Research Council (FRC), have voiced concerns that immunising young girls against the virus that most regularly causes cervical cancer, Human Papilloma-virus, may lead to sexual promiscuity.

So, lets let them die? FUCKING IDIOTS!

http://news.independent.co.uk/business/news/article755931.ece

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

After reading the article, the argument sounds semi-understandable, at least for a few seconds. I don't think that the drug should be a required administration, which is one thing that they appear to be arguing against. You should not force all parents to subject their children, and their wallets, to this new cure. It ought to be a choice. But it would be outrageous to make it illegal to administer the vaccine if requested. It gives the girls a better chance against getting sick. It just may possibly promote a couple of girls to think that they are much more safe from any STDs and convince them to be more open to the act, but there are MANY other things in this world that do so with much more effect than this would have. Still, the churches should not be trying to eliminate everything that makes girls feel safer when performing the act that they claim to be immoral. That in itself could be deemed an immoral way to go about things. Instead, the church ought to better teach its members how to follow their moral beliefs, whether or not they can find a safe way to disobey them. The church has no right to take technological advances away from us just because some of its members want to force everyone in the world to follow their teachings.

[LordRuin]

After reading the article, the argument sounds semi-understandable, at least for a few seconds. I don't think that the drug should be a required administration, which is one thing that they appear to be arguing against. You should not force all parents to subject their children, and their wallets, to this new cure. It ought to be a choice. But it would be outrageous to make it illegal to administer the vaccine if requested. It gives the girls a better chance against getting sick. It just may possibly promote a couple of girls to think that they are much more safe from any STDs and convince them to be more open to the act, but there are MANY other things in this world that do so with much more effect than this would have. Still, the churches should not be trying to eliminate everything that makes girls feel safer when performing the act that they claim to be immoral. That in itself could be deemed an immoral way to go about things. Instead, the church ought to better teach its members how to follow their moral beliefs, whether or not they can find a safe way to disobey them. The church has no right to take technological advances away from us just because some of its members want to force everyone in the world to follow their teachings.

True, the Church, or any other religious institution, should care for their own and let others do as they want. We will all go to hell for our actions anyway, so why should they care. Meddling bastards...

[Paisleyspeaker]

I wish the religious far right would pull their collective heads out of their asses. They are against abortion, but also fight against the one thing that could right now, be the greatest ultimate fix. Birth Control, yes give it to teenagers. Isn't it logical that if you reduce the total numbers of unwanted pregnancies, that it would reduce the number of abortions? Those in the far right must accept the reality that people do things they don't. And stop trying to interfere with our rights to protection. Even with all thier efforts to prevent birth control from being available, kids still screw around. To those who got laid as teenagers, did the availability of birth control make you go do it. General if some one gave you a condom, even a whole box, would it make you go out and do anything? And now they want to apply that same cock-eyed logic to something that could prevent thousands of cases of cancer? What the fuck? I have a daughter, and I would have her givin this vaccine. There is no question that I would save her the pain and fear of cancer if givin the oportunity. And if need be will fight for the right to. But not the right to have to, forcing something is as rude as taking it away. We are grown-ups right?

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

They are against abortion, but also fight against the one thing that could right now, be the greatest ultimate fix. Birth Control, yes give it to teenagers. Isn't it logical that if you reduce the total numbers of unwanted pregnancies, that it would reduce the number of abortions?


They are mostly against the abortions because it is taking away life. Some of them feel that using birth control is another way of taking away the life. You are preventing life from happeneing even though you are going through the act. Others just want to see kids stop fooling around until marriage, they are really attempting to force their beliefs on everyone. People also feel that birth control makes people more comfortable with doing the nasty, and they'll do it more often. Birth control isn't fool proof, so even with it being used, eventually more pregnancies and subsequent abortions will undoubtedly happen. I understand where they're coming from, but I don't agree with it. Things are bad enough without the religions fighting to take control of the world again.

[General Septem]

I disagree with all immunizations, first of all. I strongly object to having been shot up with that shit when I was a kid (I actually object to a lot of things they did to me when I was a kid, including but not limited to putting me on Dexadrine at one point for bad behaviour in school).

I would also like to say that treating diseases is completely unrelated to sexual promiscuity. Abstinence needs to be taught from birth, and most people are inneffective at teaching it because a lot of people don't understand it themselves.

Girls may be raped and catch diseases. That's one of the reasons I also believe all girls should be taught how to use guns, and not to be afraid to if it is necessary to defend themselves. So I'm not against treating diseases just because they are STDs.

I am still against mandatory vaccination though.

[General Septem]

They are against abortion, but also fight against the one thing that could right now, be the greatest ultimate fix. Birth Control, yes give it to teenagers. Isn't it logical that if you reduce the total numbers of unwanted pregnancies, that it would reduce the number of abortions?

No. Fornication is a sin and it would be illogical to allow another sin if you're committing another sin. That would be like saying you can murder someone as long as you burn down their house afterward, particularly since you'll still go to jail for it anyway. Besides, birth control kills babies too.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Now your trying to force your religion on others. Fornication is a sin, but outside of it being a religious thing there is noting inherently wrong with it.

[General Septem]

It's not just a religious thing. Fornication can cause a whole universe of problems, such as girls committing suicide when their asshole boyfriends break up with them. Or marriage not meaning anything to people because that sacred bond was already broken by thousands of partners before they were married. Or something a bit more simple: STDs. If a girl chooses to have sex and later becomes romantically involved with me, how am I supposed to deal with that? I deserve to marry a virgin, if for no other reason than because I'm waiting for her too. So if my wife decides to have sex with some other guy, I basically get shat on. Why does it matter? Because having sex is the most intimate you can get with someone, and as such it only makes sense that it be reserved for the one you plan to spend the rest of your life with.

[Paisleyspeaker]

Find yourself a virgin, if you feel you desevre it for waiting, I'm sure you'll find a girl who thinks the same thing. I think abstinece is a fine thing, and would see it taught as the only real way to gaurantee you won't catch an STD or become caught in an unwanted pregnancy. But that doesn't change the fact that people do have sex outside of marriage. And that the use of birth control does reduce the rates of STD exposure and pregnancies. Any thinking person knows that you still have some exposure; That you don't have a free pass. You shouldn't determine the availibility of these things based on a moral standard not all people aspire to. And I know as a catholic you follow the papal edicts against birthcontrol, but I and others don't see the pill and condoms as killing babies. They prevent conception, which does prevent life, but does not end it. And if sex is purley for procreatioin you are either going to have a lot of kids , or be very frusterated.

[General Septem]

Actually birth control pills do end lives. They harden and thin the endometrial wall of the womb, making it impossible for a week old embryo to implant and he or she dies.

I'm sure I'll find a girl. I can have any girl I want and ultimately if I ask a girl to marry me, it'll be because I decide she's worthy. so I'm not worried like I used to be. But society is making that a lot harder. Still, virgins aren't as much in short order as a lot of people (read: the liberal media) seem to think (read: want us laymen to think).

Abstinence can be taught, but that would go against the whole "do what feels good and what's convenient" philosophy that makes America so great (read: shitty, unfriendly, everyone's got a bug up their ass, etc).

[Paisleyspeaker]

I never knew that about the pill. My husband did though, he has never wanted me to use it, but I always thought that was because of the health risks to me. The brith control I mean when I use the phrase is really condoms. I think that the pill puts you in danger, a woman might not worry about a second method, and expose herself to STD's. It creates a bit of a false sense of security. I know , I know they should'nt be having sex with anyone but their husbands. But we can't make them behave, and the smaller the number of people who have diseases that smaller the number of people who catch them through accidental cross contamination.

[General Septem]

Condoms may actually be helping spread disease. After their debut in America, the number of STDs soared from 3 to over 50. Well think about it. Most teenage girls in the maternity ward, and anyone who's ever worked there will tell you this, claimed to have been using a condom. And most STDs are smaller than spermatoza. So condoms are giving people a false sense of security and having sex a lot more than they otherwise would, and cathing a lot more STDs. Eventually people just start to have a cavalier attitude about sex altogether and don't even use a condom. They just don't make sense.

[beelzebub]

Condoms may actually be helping spread disease. ,... most STDs are smaller than spermatoza. So condoms are giving people a false sense of security and having sex a lot more than they otherwise would, and cathing a lot more STDs. Eventually people just start to have a cavalier attitude about sex altogether and don't even use a condom. They just don't make sense.

This is the most stupid piece of BULLSHIT you have ever spouted. The advent of Condoms has coincided with the decrease of every known STI. You and your "faith" have perpetrated this myth to stop the use of condoms, because of your twisted view on reality.

While it is true that many viruses and bacteria are smaller than sperm they are still not able to pass though a condom. Don’t believe me? Blow up a condom and measure the rate at which it deflates. It will take hours. Oxygen, Nitrogen and Carbon dioxide are SMALLER than a virus, bacteria or sperm! If there were holes big enought to allow these to pass the rate of deflation would be in seconds, not hours.

You troll, stay in your computer cave and don’t spread such myths to placate your dissatisfaction with your own libido and limited opportunities.

[General Septem]

This is the most stupid piece of BULLSHIT you have ever spouted. The advent of Condoms has coincided with the decrease of every known STI. You and your "faith" have perpetrated this myth to stop the use of condoms, because of your twisted view on reality.
{{citation needed}}

[Paisleyspeaker]

Latex condoms, when used consistently and correctly, are highly effective in preventing heterosexual sexual transmission of HIV, the virus that causes AIDS. Research on the effectiveness of latex condoms in preventing heterosexual transmission is both comprehensive and conclusive. The ability of latex condoms to prevent transmission has been scientifically established in laboratory studies as well as in epidemiologic studies of uninfected persons at very high risk of infection because they were involved in sexual relationships with HIV-infected partners. The most recent meta-analysis of epidemiologic studies of condom effectiveness was published by Weller and Davis in 2004. This analysis refines and updates their previous report published in 1999. The analysis demonstrates that the consistent use of latex condoms provides a high degree of protection against heterosexual transmission of HIV. It should be noted that condom use cannot provide absolute protection against HIV. The surest way to avoid transmission of HIV is to abstain from sexual intercourse or to be in a long-term mutually monogamous relationship with a partner who has been tested and you know is uninfected.

CDC division of HIV and AIDS prevention

if you need to see more check out the CDC's fact sheet on male condoms and sexually transmitted diseases here:http://www.cdc.gov/nchstp/od/condoms.pdf

I was one of the founding members of an Aids organization at my high school, I have heard that information before, and must say the experts disagree. If you can find me empiracal data that says condoms are aiding in the spread of disease I'll read it, but until them I must side with the good doctors of the Center for Disease Control.

[General Septem]

Latex condoms, when used consistently and correctly, are highly effective in preventing heterosexual sexual transmission of HIV, the virus that causes AIDS.
Don't give me that "highly effective" bullshit. I want numbers. You said it yourself that they are not completely effective, and that's enough for me. Even if they're 99% effective, all that means is if you have sex with 100 infected people, one of them gave it to you.

[beelzebub]

Don't give me that "highly effective" bullshit. I want numbers. You said it yourself that they are not completely effective, and that's enough for me. Even if they're 99% effective, all that means is if you have sex with 100 infected people, one of them gave it to you.

You are stupid. The 99% effective rate comes from overall populations. Meaning that 1 idiot out of a hundred people didn't use the condom correctly and caught something. Not one guy having sex one hundred times.

[General Septem]

You are stupid. The 99% effective rate comes from overall populations. Meaning that 1 idiot out of a hundred people didn't use the condom correctly and caught something. Not one guy having sex one hundred times.
Well you can't ensure everyone's going to use them correctly now, can you? I wouldn't be surprised if most people don't, actually. Even if you do, they can still fail, and if you say otherwise you're just an idiot. I wasn't citing 99% anyway. That's just a hypothetical figure.

[Paisleyspeaker]

if you need numbers check this out :
http://www.siecus.org/pubs/fact/fact0011.html

[General Septem]

if you need numbers check this out :
http://www.siecus.org/pubs/fact/fact0011.html
I don't think you're getting the point. Either way, the rate of protection against pregnancy is 79%. That's bullshit.

[Paisleyspeaker]

Sweet heart, it's better than nothing.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

That's right. Leave the religious side out of it and let people take risks. It's no one's job to make sure that we are all as paranoid as possible, just make people informed of what they are getting into. If they still want to do it, they have to deal with the consequences.

[beelzebub]

Well you can't ensure everyone's going to use them correctly now, can you? I wouldn't be surprised if most people don't, actually. Even if you do, they can still fail, and if you say otherwise you're just an idiot. I wasn't citing 99% anyway. That's just a hypothetical figure.

Nope, you are right. That's why it is important to make sure that everyone has some education on how to use them.

[General Septem]

The problem is, people aren't informed. If you take two countries that had problems with AIDS, and you gave one of them condoms and one of them abstinence, the one which you gave abstinence will decrease, whereas the one which you gave condoms will have an increase in AIDS. In fact it's been done. They gave condoms to Africa. I forget which country it was that they taught abstinence to, but AIDS went down dramatically.

[General Septem]

Nope, you are right. That's why it is important to make sure that everyone has some education on how to use them.
Funny thing is, I don't see you doing anything of the sort. All I see you doing is boasting about how effective they are when they are used properly.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

How hard is it to use a condom properly? They have little pictures on the box that show you exactly how it comes on...not that it would take a genius to figure it out without the pictures.

[General Septem]

How hard is it to use a condom properly? They have little pictures on the box that show you exactly how it comes on...not that it would take a genius to figure it out without the pictures.
Apparently hard enough to reduce the effectiveness to 79%.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

I'd say that part of the reason that stat is lower than it should be is that people are lying about using the condom, or at least not using it the entire time. And other times people might just be too anxious to get to the sex that they don't care enough to use the condom properly. They just get it on there as quick as possible and stuff the cock as deep as possible. Maybe too, some of the dicks are just too small to keep the condom from falling of inside the vagina. Maybe they should come up with a Junior size condom for these people....just watch their head disapear below their shoulders while you call for a price chick at the counter.:D

[General Septem]

That doesn't explain the abstinent country. And we're talking about black people here. They need the jumbo size. :D

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Oh...I thought the going argument was the problem with unintended pregnancies......but obviously the abstinent country is going to have less STDs because they're not performing the S. With the S you can't have STDs. I don't think that people should be forced to give up their S though just because we have guarantees that diseases will be lessened.

[General Septem]

I think people should not give up the S but save it for that special someone. I think it's just better that way, in the long run.

Of course in today's society, that can be difficult. See how everyone's promiscuity affects me?

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

I think people should not give up the S but save it for that special someone. I think it's just better that way, in the long run.



Yes it is, but in today's internet-one-click society people don't have the patience to wait for that special someone. Other people just look for the S and could care less if it's with that special someone or not....the S is enough. Who are we to say that they're wrong?

[General Septem]

I wouldn't say they're wrong, but they're definitely missing out. But by imposing their own views of S on poeple like myself, they're wrong.

If you want patience try living 17 fucking years without so much as a kiss. It's getting old.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Sounds like you're the one who's missing out.

[General Septem]

Sounds like you're the one who's missing out.
Why, because my wedding night is going to be 1000x more special? How do you figure?

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Because you're torturing yourself for something that you really don't know how good it's going to be. You may think it will be 1000 times better, while others are enjoying what they can get and think that things could not have gone better any other way. If you don't intend to even kiss a girl until marriage, I doubt that you will be able to find someone who will stay with even stay with you long enough to even consider that she's the one.

[General Septem]

Wat

I never said I was waiting until marriage to kiss a girl. There's just no girls around that meet my standards, not that I've met anyway. And not having sex isn't torture for me. In fact I have little interest in sex, at least at this point. The pleasure aspect may not be any better, but it would be a loving act rather than a lustful one. I don't know about you but being selfless always makes me feel better than being selfish.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Then you ought to go into the doctor and have him help you figure out where you lost your dick. If you have no interest now, I doubt that you ever will. I don't think there is hardly any man who has had an increase in sexual interest after his teenage years.

[General Septem]

It's not that I don't want to have sex, I just respect women enough (and myself for that matter) that I would never actually consider it. Of course I get horny from time to time. I want sex but it has to be with my wife, because I love her.

[jonilaine]

Someone may have already said this because I didn't read all the comments...but I think that this is just another case of women's choice. If people would stand back and let a woman make choices for herself, no matter what age, we wouldn't have all of these problems. Now, some of you may say that their should be an age limit on making choices for oneself and I agree...but if a child's legal guardian gives consent, then what's the problem? And if a child comes to a medical professional and asks for this vaccine then she is clearly responsible enough to make her own decisions.

[General Septem]

Like I said, I'm not against vaccination for those that request it. But I'm very much against vaccinating people against their will, or in abscence of it. I should've grown a spine and said "NO" the last physical I was in, when my doctor told me she wanted to give me a Meningococcal vaccine. I've been having headaches ever since. I bet I'd feel a lot better if they hadn't loaded me up with vaccines as a kid. Nothing ever feels right, it's like everything is thrown off-balance. I think they should stop looking for vaccines and start finding ways to treat diseases people already have.

That said I think people should stop blaming school, vaccines, condoms, myspace, etc for your daughter's own sluttiness.

I also think Jonilaine should stop babbling about "women's choice". We men have choices too.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

I think they should stop looking for vaccines and start finding ways to treat diseases people already have.

They're looking for them nonstop. They've found ways to prevent the disease from happening which aren't perfect, but the outcome of a few people having headaches or other side effects every now and then is better than a lot more people dying of preventable diseases.




I also think Jonilaine should stop babbling about "women's choice". We men have choices too.


Down Tiger! The thread was about a vaccination that would only help women, and never be administered to men. She's just staying on topic here.

[General Septem]

They're looking for them nonstop. They've found ways to prevent the disease from happening which aren't perfect, but the outcome of a few people having headaches or other side effects every now and then is better than a lot more people dying of preventable diseases.
Yeah, but I'd rather have a choice. For instance, it's pretty much impossible for me to have caught meningitis even without the vaccine. I'm already almost past the age and I'm not around a lot of people anyway. I'd just rather not have that shit in me, and I wish I'd had a choice.

[beelzebub]

Funny thing is, I don't see you doing anything of the sort. All I see you doing is boasting about how effective they are when they are used properly.

Well that would be due to the fact that you don’t know me. In Africa I was an HIV-AIDS Teacher Trainer who taught teachers how to protect themselves and their communities with the use of condoms. Furthermore I have led teams of college students doing the same stuff working with villages, schools and sex workers. In the states I run the SAFE group at my school (same stuff).

What do you want to know? You need to want to know the information if I am going to give it to you

[General Septem]

Well what do you want, a cookie?

[Paisleyspeaker]

I was one of hte founding emebers of the AIDS group at the high school I went to. I could show you the proper way to use a condom. But I think you would admit that it is really not relevant informatioin for you. The 79% effectiveness rating has more to it than using the condom properly. They also need to be stored properly, temp and preventing holes, as well as checking the expiration date (especially if your taking it out of daddy's drawer) And like someone else said , some of these people are lying. I do agree that there is no one else to blame for your childs behavior than yourself.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

If you really can't figure out how to use a condom properly, just watch the seventh episode from season 5 in South Park. Mr. Garrison (who just happens to be my mental image of beelzebub) describes it perfectly to all the little kindergartners.




First of all you remove the condom from its package. Then you find which way the condom rolls out. Put it in your mouth. And apply!


as he demonstrates the entire thing with a wooden dildo on a stand

And it's as simple as that, any questions?

[Paisleyspeaker]

[QUOTE=General Septem]Condoms may actually be helping spread disease. After their debut in America, the number of STDs soared from 3 to over 50. QUOTE]

"The condom, made of animal gut, became well known and increased in popularity in the 1700's. Literature of that time suggests that the condom's contraceptive (rather than just prophylactic) properties had already been realised. By 1766 many shops were producing handbills and advertisements.

The rubber condom was developed shortly after the creation of vulcanized rubber in the 1840's, by Goodyear and Hancock. Vulcanisation is the method or process of treating crude rubber with sulphur and subjecting it to intense heat. This process turns the rubber into a strong elastic material"

It is not often that something like the number of diseases has such a simple explanation. And I don't think this is one of those cases. Condoms were being marketed in Europe before the signing of the Declaration of Independance. They were probably here since before this was the US. So when did this jump in disease happen?
If for sake of argument you want to say when they became mass made and more available, they were first advertised in the US in 1861. Think about everything going on in that world, the rate travel was growing. The advent of commercail airlines, the exploration of the world, the interaction with new cultures. And with every discovery there were things exchanged, including diseases. It is just as plausible to suggest that the number of diseases grew because we were exploring new places and meeting new people and their illnesses.

[General Septem]

The rubber condom was developed shortly after the creation of vulcanized rubber in the 1840's, by Goodyear and Hancock. Vulcanisation is the method or process of treating crude rubber with sulphur and subjecting it to intense heat. This process turns the rubber into a strong elastic material"

lol Hancock

[Paisleyspeaker]

a tisket a tasket a condom or a casket

[hkdbadreligion]

...they were first advertised in the US in 1861. Think about everything going on in that world, the rate travel was growing. The advent of commercail airlines, the exploration of the world...
Commercial Airlines? I do believe the first plane was created in 1904.

[Paisleyspeaker]

HDK I was refering to the era in history more than any specific year, and what about drirgibles (zepplins)?

[freakazoid]

This is the most stupid piece of BULLSHIT ...

You troll, stay in your computer cave and don’t spread such myths to placate your dissatisfaction with your own libido and limited opportunities.

"You troll, stay in your computer cave and don’t spread such myths to placate your dissatisfaction with your own libido and limited opportunities."

Disagree, yes, calling someone you disagree with a "troll" is very uncool. :cool: