Guns

[Macboy2002]

Alright, my view on guns.
I hate them. You won't catch me dead with one.
...maybe because of one, but that's not the point.

Basically, I say that anything that moves too fast to catch and can be fired from a distance has to be the absolutely most dishonorable weapon on the fucking planet!

Why?
Ok, what do you do if someone puts a gun to your head?
You either die, or you do what they say and hope you don't.

If someone pulls a sword... even if you don't have one, you still have a slim chance of catching theirs away from them.
If you do have one, YOUR SKILL is what will help you win.

How do you win in a gun fight?
Buy a better gun.
That doesn't work with a sword, or bow.
YOU CAN'T BUY EXPERIENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You can pay for being trained, but YOUR HARD WORK IS WHAT GIVES YOU YOUR RIGHT TO LIVE, not how much money you have.

Another thing on money, everyone told me when I was younger, "You need to learn the value of a dollar, young man!"

Well, I am pleased to say, I have learned the value of a dollar:
ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY NOTHING!!!!!!!

Its only fucking worth something becuase idiots who can't evolve past the primate age to figure out that you don't need a peice of fucking ass cloth-infused paper to tell others that you fucking earned it!!!!!!!!!!
If you've ever bitched about not enough money, STOP BITCHING ABOUT MONEY! IT'S WORTHLESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So, basically, what I am saying is that, ok you know how the president says that in Iraq, its a war between a midieveal way of thinking and a 21st century way of thinking?
Uh, no, if your "21st century way of thinking" is anything like what happens in cities like Dallas, Houston, NYC, and other large cities, and I say from experience, that our news, although we aren't in Dallas, is Dallas news and not a fucking day goes by that someone didn't get robbed, shot, or both.

Stop thinking about your imaginary war with the wrong country, and take care of the people who have the mentality you call "mediveal" WITHIN YOUR OWN GOD DAMN BORDERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Damn, that ran into more than one subject.
Oh, well.

[Macboy2002]

I'm gonna guess this belonged in politics?

[MrBirdy]

my opinion on guns is this:
If you wanna buy one, you should have to take a series of psychological tests, to see whether you will ever use it against someone for something other than self defense.
also, if any of you have watched "30 days" with morgan spurlock, there are people who have used them in self deffense.
another point, my uncle who is one step below black belt, if someone held a gun directly to his head, the guy with the gun is DEAD. if it were long range, well, my uncle is fucked, but if someone is stupid enough to aim it directly at him less than a foot away, the gun man is fucked.

[General Septem]

How do you win in a gun fight?
Buy a better gun.

Quality of weapons certainly helps, but so does quality of sword, and you still have to aim your gun and know how to use cover. You could be carrying a gun that shoots chainsaws and still be killed by a .22 if you don't know anything about combat.

[TheSpectacularSecularist]

No no no no and again no. Guns require skills and training.
Do you think that you would win a gunfight with an experienced cop, even if you are both carrying the same firearm?

[WhiteRaven]

When I first started playing shooters, I didn't really use cover. I died quite a lot. I started to learn though, that for example, cover is necessary, and that shotguns are for relatively close enemies, and so on. So yes you need skill to use guns.

[hitekredneck]

guns...love em....i hunt, target shoot, and take the personal safety of my family seriously....they are a tool, to be utilized just like a knife, wrench, or nailgun....i will not depend on the police, because they are an unknown...i know my training and skill can keep me and my family safe from "unwanted" attention...my guns are all fully insured and maintained in good working condition, and the entire family has been trained in their use, from my shotguns, to my rifles and pistols...i have a c&c permit, and i utilize it for my own personal safety...i will not be caught unawares in these uncertain times, as there is no longer safety in numbers, and police response time is notoriously lacking... :cool:

[ballzack]

God Created Man.
Sam Colt made them equal.

In America, the right to keep and bear arms is constitutionally protected.
End of story.

There is no argument.

Unless you would like to tell the rest of us patriots what the Constitution OUGHT to say, rather than what it says.

[Macboy2002]

I am willing to accept that you might need a bit of training with a gun, however, well however what?
WHO REALLY GIVES A SHIT?
What we SHOULD DO?
What we should do is stop the blood!!!!!!!!!!
We are in the god damn 21st century.
THERE SHOULD BE ABSOLUTELY NO FUCKING REASON TO KILL!
The problem, I will accept is not the gun, it is the motherfucker who shoots people!
What we need to do AS A PLANET is put our fucking 3000 year old conflicts, our god damn drugs, and fucking insanity TO A GOD DAMN REST!

Do any of you believe in evolution?
I used to not, but now I'm not to sure.

Anyway, I know that one man, or even one board.
I just would have imagined that sometime in the 4.5 billion years this god forsaken rock has been around, SOMEONE WOULD HAVE WENT "Hey, let's get a life! if you don't wanna believe you're a god damn ape, don't act like it by killing for no reason!!"
This is not directed toward anyone in particular, but as humanity in whole.
Don't say I called you a god damn ape with 8,000 year old conflicts from 4.5 billion years ago, cuz I didn't, I called the human population that!

EDIT: and damn that didn't make a lot of sense!

[General Septem]

THERE SHOULD BE ABSOLUTELY NO FUCKING REASON TO KILL!

You're right, there shouldn't be... but there is. And I'm not going to be the one at the business end.

[Macboy2002]

yea, good point

[WhiteRaven]

THERE SHOULD BE ABSOLUTELY NO FUCKING REASON TO KILL!

Anything, or just other people?

[yee-haw]

I am willing to accept that you might need a bit of training with a gun, however, well however what?
WHO REALLY GIVES A SHIT?
What we SHOULD DO?
What we should do is stop the blood!!!!!!!!!!
We are in the god damn 21st century.
THERE SHOULD BE ABSOLUTELY NO FUCKING REASON TO KILL!
The problem, I will accept is not the gun, it is the motherfucker who shoots people!
What we need to do AS A PLANET is put our fucking 3000 year old conflicts, our god damn drugs, and fucking insanity TO A GOD DAMN REST!

Do any of you believe in evolution?
I used to not, but now I'm not to sure.

Anyway, I know that one man, or even one board.
I just would have imagined that sometime in the 4.5 billion years this god forsaken rock has been around, SOMEONE WOULD HAVE WENT "Hey, let's get a life! if you don't wanna believe you're a god damn ape, don't act like it by killing for no reason!!"
This is not directed toward anyone in particular, but as humanity in whole.
Don't say I called you a god damn ape with 8,000 year old conflicts from 4.5 billion years ago, cuz I didn't, I called the human population that!

EDIT: and damn that didn't make a lot of sense!

Calm down young man, You're gonna blow a Fuse...

[buttless_wonder]

I swear Macboy, you are about as smart as a sack of wet hair. I now see you as nothing more than a fucking Kool-Aide drinking fucktard who will be sold any bill of goods the left can push your direction. Go blow a goat dumbass!

Do you know what one of the first things Hitler did when he took power in Germany? He enacted broad ranging gun control laws because it is much easier to control a populace that is unarmed.

[Ope]

I swear Macboy, you are about as smart as a sack of wet hair. I now see you as nothing more than a fucking Kool-Aide drinking fucktard who will be sold any bill of goods the left can push your direction. Go blow a goat dumbass!

Do you know what one of the first things Hitler did when he took power in Germany? He enacted broad ranging gun control laws because it is much easier to control a populace that is unarmed.

Amen.

The second amendment was written to protect us from each other AND our government.

And please, for the love of God, try to accurately shoot a REAL gun before saying it takes no skill. You are out of your element.

[buttless_wonder]

For what it's worth I am not a gun owner but I fully agree with the spirit of the second amendment.

Trust me on this Macboy, those who would choose to commit a violent crime will think twice if they think there might be civilians packing who could put an end to their plans and life with one skillfull squeeze of the trigger.

[freakazoid]

I am willing to accept that you might need a bit of training with a gun, however, well however what?
WHO REALLY GIVES A SHIT?
What we SHOULD DO?
What we should do is stop the blood!!!!!!!!!!
We are in the god damn 21st century.
THERE SHOULD BE ABSOLUTELY NO FUCKING REASON TO KILL!
The problem, I will accept is not the gun, it is the motherfucker who shoots people!
What we need to do AS A PLANET is put our fucking 3000 year old conflicts, our god damn drugs, and fucking insanity TO A GOD DAMN REST!

Do any of you believe in evolution?
I used to not, but now I'm not to sure.

Anyway, I know that one man, or even one board.
I just would have imagined that sometime in the 4.5 billion years this god forsaken rock has been around, SOMEONE WOULD HAVE WENT "Hey, let's get a life! if you don't wanna believe you're a god damn ape, don't act like it by killing for no reason!!"
This is not directed toward anyone in particular, but as humanity in whole.
Don't say I called you a god damn ape with 8,000 year old conflicts from 4.5 billion years ago, cuz I didn't, I called the human population that!

EDIT: and damn that didn't make a lot of sense!


RE: "THERE SHOULD BE ABSOLUTELY NO FUCKING REASON TO KILL!"

If a known rapist broke into your house and your teen aged daughter was by herself, but had access to a handgun she knew how to use, and the rapist was going to rape her and possible kill her after...would that be a reason for your daughter to kill (using the hand gun in this case)?

[Macboy2002]

That's what I'm saying.
We are in the god damn 21st century, there shouldn't be any thing like that fucking happening.
The problem is, that humans haven't learned from the mistakes that people have made for the last 6,000 years and FUCKING NEED TO!

If people were to learn from 6,000 old mistakes, we wouldn't have that kind of shit now would we?

[buttless_wonder]

I have 4 words for you Macboy

In a perfect world.

nuff said....

[Macboy2002]

I know in a perfect world.

Think about it this way: Windows, which has got to be the buggiest shit ever, is a hell of a lot better now. For example when I had Win98, it crashed every 5 minutes, and had to be reinstalled every three months (that's how I can say BTK6G-MVCVF-C6CM6-K9XGY-9VC6Y without looking at the OEM book.)

Windows XP, which actually isn't Windows, it's Windows NT, has crashed on any computer I've physically stood next to a total of 5 times since 2002.
That's pretty damn good for Windows.

Of course, there is still the 6-month install limit that our computers have, but at least you can run a repair and not loose any of your personal files!

Ok, that's how far Windows got in 17 years.

So, where will it be 6,000 years from now (assuming that God doesn't come by then)?

Take that into account, then wonder why violence went up hill, then humans started to REALLY evolve into civilized people during, uh, maybe 1900-1960, then started a de-evolution process that is taking millions of lives daily.

It's just not logical, and I wonder if M$ was trying to warn us about shit like this when they released Vista.

[buttless_wonder]

What does that have to do wit5h the issue being discussed here? Please do the world a favor and have you nutsack surgically removed so you can not further contaminate the world with your genetic material.

[yee-haw]

What does that have to do wit5h the issue being discussed here? Please do the world a favor and have you nutsack surgically removed so you can not further contaminate the world with your genetic material.

LOL...:D
Damn!

[Macboy2002]

What does that have to do with anything?

If M$ can make Windows almost behave in 16 years, the humans are pretty god damn pathetic if they cant start behaving after 6,000 fucking years!

[Macboy2002]

Ok, so maybe it does take skill.
Sharpshooters have tons of skill in being undetected while shooting someone, but that's my point.
And yes, the sharpness and reality (as in not plastic) of a sword will effect the battle, but that shows how hard you work to keep it up.
Sure, you do maintinence on a gun, but like what? wipe it down, and put more bullets in?
Make an entire's day work, that does not.

But then, I guess in the immortal words of Master Yoda,
"War not make one great."

[buttless_wonder]

What does that have to do with anything?

If M$ can make Windows almost behave in 16 years, the humans are pretty god damn pathetic if they cant start behaving after 6,000 fucking years!
As long as you take emotion out of the equation.
Please use that knob atop your shoulders for something other than a place to store a baseball cap cocked at a stupid angle.

When you first started this thread you had placed your foot in your mouth but now it seems you are knee deep. Your ignorance is monumental if nothing else.

[WhiteRaven]

As long as you take emotion out of the equation.

Emotion is not the problem, people's refusal to understand it is.

[buttless_wonder]

Emotion is not the problem, people's refusal to understand it is.
Maybe but when emotion becomes the reason for a decision logic goes out the window.

[Macboy2002]

When logic becomes the only reason for a desicion, passion dies.
When passion dies humanity has no feeling.
When no feeling is left life is gray.
when life is gray, suicide happens.

[TheSpectacularSecularist]

When logic becomes the only reason for a desicion, passion dies.
When passion dies humanity has no feeling.
When no feeling is left life is gray.
when life is gray, suicide happens.
So the logical decision would be not to make one? :D

[WhiteRaven]

Maybe but when emotion becomes the reason for a decision logic goes out the window.

Really? If after working for a while, I decided to buy my own house, I would be doing it because I wanted my own house. But is it not also a logical decision to own your own place?

I can think of other examples, or you can tell me a decision you believed to be purely logical, and I will show you how it was emotional also.

[buttless_wonder]

Really? If after working for a while, I decided to buy my own house, I would be doing it because I wanted my own house. But is it not also a logical decision to own your own place?

I can think of other examples, or you can tell me a decision you believed to be purely logical, and I will show you how it was emotional also.
OK, perhaps that was too general of a statement.
When emotion is the driving force behind the use of a gun logic generally goes out the window. Again, this statement will not always stand up either.

Example 1 not logical
Joe is pissed off at Jeff so he decides to "put a cap in his ass".

Example 2 logical
Joe is at a convenience store when Jeff decides this would be a good time to rob the store so Joe "puts a cap in his ass".

[Paisleyspeaker]

Little Man , next time before you spout off about a topic you should really know something about what you are talking about. You have put your foot in your mouth twice.

1. It takes great skill to shoot well. Especially at great distances. You must account for many things :ballistics or the curving path of a bullet or any projectile ( it doesn't really go in a straight line) and the speed and dircetion of the wind chief among them. Shooting well is not as simple as you think.

2. There is more to keeping a gun than just "wiping it down and putting in more bullets" Hitek and any other responsible gun owner will tell you , you should be able to break any gun you own into at least it's major components so they may all be cleaned and oiled on a regular basis (if not after everytime you shoot) keeping a gun clean and in good repair will prevent accidents and misfires.

[General Septem]

Keeping your gun in good repair will also prevent the government from putting you in jail and taking away your military pension for owning a "machine gun". :(

[Macboy2002]

Ok damn it, it takes some skill. Perhaps a lot of focus too depending on what you are doing.
Why is it that some are so narrow-minded that they dwell on only the part that says it takes no skill?
But when you fire a gun from 20 feet away, you do not have the thrill that comes with killing.
Killing is sometimes nesecsary, this is true.
However, even if it takes skill, you still do not have certain things like, oh, let's see... a chance!
depending on the gun there might be anywhere from a 1 in 4 to a 1 in 100,000,000 chance of missing your target.
If you are trying to kill someone, and you have the skill (NOTICE: I JUST SAID IT TAKES SKILL!!! STOP DWELLING ON ONE PART!) you will go with maybe a sniper rifle.
If you are trying to kill someone and have about as much skill as luck of surviving a trip down Niagra Falls, you might want to go for a chaingun.
Either way, there is about a 1 in a million chance of not killing your target sometime in the fight.

But, I don't give a damn about the chances.
guns can be random.
Lets pull this one from Star Wars as well
"It's not as clumsy or random as a blaster."..."...A more civilized weapon from a more civilized age."
Ok, what is the blaster? its just a laser gun. So lets apply that statement to all guns.

Yea the sword might be a bit random... if your arm is made of angel hair pasta.

But if it was, so would the gun be more random than it already is.
NOTE: THOSE STATEMENTS APPLY TO SMALLER GUNS THAT DO NOT HAVE TARGETING ON THEM, or people who don't have time to use targeting.

But still, I don't care about the odds, I care about the fight.
If I was to shoot someone from a yard away, big whoop, where is the fun and excitement.

Killing can be extremely fun..even if you are in your right mind.

It can also be boring, or fun (if your just that crazy) if you shoot someone with a gun...especially if you shoot point-blank.

Damn, this is starting to sound like Mac vs. PC.

[TheSpectacularSecularist]

...the thrill that comes with killing...
What could you possibly know about that?

[Macboy2002]

I have no idea.
The only thing I could come up with as basis on that is this:
When I swing shit around like a sword, I get really into what I'm doing.
When I do the weird gun shit with my hands and go like pow pow!, it does absolutely nothing for me.

Therefore, I can only assume that in a real battle (and yes, everything is a battle for me) that I would have a large excitement by winning, and maybe not even killing, but at least defeating my enemy with a sword (because sword fights are right there, one mistake and your legs are gone kind of thing) and a very small excitement by doing the same thing from a distance.

By the way, thanks everyone who has posted for the insight.
If I had of just come out and told you I knew nothing, you would have ignored me.

[General Septem]

Give me a sniper rifle any day. But then again I always did suck at fencing.

[Macboy2002]

I'd like to find a fencing class.
(thought bubble) damn, why did we have to move to middle of nowhere!?!

[buttless_wonder]

I have no idea.
The only thing I could come up with as basis on that is this:
When I swing shit around like a sword, I get really into what I'm doing.
When I do the weird gun shit with my hands and go like pow pow!, it does absolutely nothing for me.

Therefore, I can only assume that in a real battle (and yes, everything is a battle for me) that I would have a large excitement by winning, and maybe not even killing, but at least defeating my enemy with a sword (because sword fights are right there, one mistake and your legs are gone kind of thing) and a very small excitement by doing the same thing from a distance.

By the way, thanks everyone who has posted for the insight.
If I had of just come out and told you I knew nothing, you would have ignored me.
First off let it be known the basis of my argument has not been the skill required but the fact that our society has for lack of a better term made them necessary. There are always going to be violent offenders that must be dealt with. Whether it be by an officer of the law or a citizen who just happens to be packing.

Does absolutely nothing for you?!?
What in the goddamn hell do you mean by that?
Most people who have been in the position of having to use a gun to defend them self or others did not get anything out of it except perhaps a nice case of post traumatic stress disorder. Your having made that statement proves you are just the type of person who is the reason guns are necessary.

Do yourself a favor and shut the fuck up before you make yourself appear even more stupid, if that is at all possible.

[Macboy2002]

What in the god damn hell I mean is I find no thrill in being a foot away from something you can't possibly stop from killing you.

What in the god damn hell I mean is that there is a certain heat between two opponents when they are right in fucking front of the guy they are fighting instead of killing from a distance like some sissy.

One problem I have with that is they use a fucking gun, which by "the most dishonorable weapon" I mean whoever can pull theirs the fastest wins, you are proving that you are a sissy to anyone who has the brains to recognize that the other guy didn' have the slightest chance at defending himself, then they go talk about how fucking gangsta and brave they were because they killed some man, innocent or not, with a gun from a yard away when they know he didn't have the slightest survival rate.

What in the god damn hell I mean is that if every gun was suddenly destroyed ***INCLUDING THE ONES THE CRIMINALS HAVE*** then there would be no need to have one to protect yourself from it.

What in the god damn hell I mean is that a sword or even a god damn bow and arrow can be fucking stopped by an extremely skilled person.

What in the god damn damn hell I mean is that I will drop that last claim when you find the one man on earth who has skin of steel, or can stand 3 yards away from some one with a gun and catch the god damn bullet!

What in the god damn hell I mean is that yea, if guns were off limits there would be a fucking black market because after 6000 years people still believe that they have to have a god damn slip of paper that says, hey I did god damn something (or god damn nothing) to earn this god damn piece of worthless god damn cloth-infused paper from some place in the government that says, "HEY! this actually god damn means something" except for the fact that it doesn't god damn mean anything! It only has a god damn meaning because some fucktard said it god damn meant something!
If the god damn government started saying rocks were worth 6 million dollars each, every one would immediately dig up some rocks, only to find out that the government meant only god damn rocks with a god damn random number that has been signed by some random person who JUST happened to want to run for god damn treasurer and god damn won!

THAT IS WHAT IN THE GOD DAMN HELL I MEAN!!!!!!!

[buttless_wonder]

How about I speak to you on your own level Macboy.
Put down the dice and get a real life because the one you have rolled here has a very low charisma and even lower intelligence.

[Macboy2002]

Ok, shit.
I tend to change my intelligence and beliefs with my emotions.
It's kind of like 2-faced, except, more like 65-faced.

So, I look at that last post and think I could have done without a lot of the "god damn"s.

Either way, don't talk to me like I don't understand shit.
I'm a fucking software developer for crying out loud.

[hitekredneck]

Ok, shit.
I tend to change my intelligence and beliefs with my emotions.
It's kind of like 2-faced, except, more like 65-faced.

So, I look at that last post and think I could have done without a lot of the "god damn"s.

Either way, don't talk to me like I don't understand shit.
I'm a fucking software developer for crying out loud.

you could be bill fucking gates for all i care, but you're living a fantasy....as long as one man's around, another is going to want what the first one has, or they will disagree on things like ideoligies or religion, and violence will ensue...we're an extremely violent species, and have the tendancy to go overboard at times...if all the guns in the world were destroyed miraculously, we'ld return to chopping each other apart with big knives and shooting arrows at each other....just getting rid of the tool won't stop killing and violence, and anybody that believes otherwise is sadly misinformed :cool:

[buttless_wonder]

Ok, shit.
I tend to change my intelligence and beliefs with my emotions.
It's kind of like 2-faced, except, more like 65-faced.

So, I look at that last post and think I could have done without a lot of the "god damn"s.

Either way, don't talk to me like I don't understand shit.
I'm a fucking software developer for crying out loud.

Yet further proof that you don't understand shit.
Just because you're a software developer does not preclude you from being a a complete moron on all other subjects.

[Macboy2002]

Given, but I do know enough.
I am taking advanced classes in school for Math (which puts me on 9th grade Algebra I) and Science
Before I ever set foot in High School, I will have 2.5 credits toward graduation.
I would have 3.5, but we HAD to move to this minuscule town.
So please, don't tell me I don't know anything.
Technology is not my ONLY field of expertise.
As soon as I see it offered, I'm going to take psychology.
Any teacher in my school would tell anyone on this board that I am one of the most intelligent students in their class.

[Macboy2002]

Yet further proof that you don't understand shit.
Just because you're a software developer does not preclude you from being a a complete moron on all other subjects.
Also, do you actually believe that or are you pulling that from my other post located here (http://forum.bullshit.com/showthread.php?p=55349#post55349)?

[buttless_wonder]

Without even clicking it I know you are referring to the thread about ignorance. If you really think I did not understand this concept prior to your thread you have a rather over inflated view of yourself. With every post you continue to prove my point that you are a nimrod.

[Macboy2002]

Without even clicking it I know you are referring to the thread about ignorance. If you really think I did not understand this concept prior to your thread you have a rather over inflated view of yourself. With every post you continue to prove my point that you are a nimrod.
are you enjoying it?

[buttless_wonder]

when you post Jesus cries

[Macboy2002]

when you post Jesus cries
...and when I don't post, you cry because you don't have anyone to make fun of.

[buttless_wonder]

OMFG!
Macboy has figured me out...

[Macboy2002]

OMFG!
Macboy has figured me out...
This is news?

[WhiteRaven]

No, there's always people to make fun of around here. If we just wanted to make fun of someone we'd make some replies to that idiotic cock, bollocky William's thread.

[yee-haw]

This is news?

Buttlesswonder has been around a little longer in life than you macboy, You may learn something from him if you listen.

[Macboy2002]

eh, perhaps.

I have learned a lot from this thread.
Before I didn't know it took so much work in a gun.

But I still don't like them.

[buttless_wonder]

eh, perhaps.

I have learned a lot from this thread.
Before I didn't know it took so much work in a gun.

But I still don't like them.
I don't think it's really a matter of like or dislike if you ask me. I am not a gun owner and do not see that changing in the future but having that option open to me is very important for any US citizen.

How about that, I posted without insulting you Macboy.

[buttless_wonder]

Buttlesswonder has been around a little longer in life than you macboy, You may learn something from him if you listen.

Hey!
Are you calling me an old man? ;)

[Macboy2002]

I don't think it's really a matter of like or dislike if you ask me. I am not a gun owner and do not see that changing in the future but having that option open to me is very important for any US citizen.[/qoute]
Now that, I agree with.
[quote=buttless_wonder;55423]How about that, I posted without insulting you Macboy.
Aren't you nice!

[yee-haw]

Hey!
Are you calling me an old man? ;)

Calling you a wise man, brotha'!:D

[buttless_wonder]

Calling you a wise man, brotha'!:D

I figgered it was something like that hence the ;).