Software Piracy

[Xilmwa]

I just noticed something.

Since software is licensed, not sold, you cannot illegally download software, only the license, because if you were illegally downloading the software, it would be no different when you buy it in a box, since you don't own the software.

Well then, you gather that can you can illegally download the license, and this is true, except, lets pull a (not-so) random license:
http://download.microsoft.com/documents/useterms/Windows%20XP_Professional_English_9e8a2f82-c320-4301-869f-839a853868a1.pdf Ok, Windows XP license, available free from Microsoft, not illegal at all.

Why hadn't I noticed that before?

[ballzack]

Go to China, walk down just about any street in a major city there, and you can buy anything you want for $1.00 American.
Want a working copy of Office 2008 professional? No problem. $1.00
Want Acrobat Professional? No problem. $1.00
You can also bargain.
Get Office 2008 Professional, Acrobat Professional, and have them throw in XP Pro and Vista 08, offer them $3.00 and they'll take it. :eek:

[Xilmwa]

Go to China, walk down just about any street in a major city there, and you can buy anything you want for $1.00 American.
Want a working copy of Office 2008 professional? No problem. $1.00
Want Acrobat Professional? No problem. $1.00
You can also bargain.
Get Office 2008 Professional, Acrobat Professional, and have them throw in XP Pro and Vista 08, offer them $3.00 and they'll take it. :eek:

What the hell is Vista 08?

[ballzack]

It was a joke.
Mojave commercials - Vista 08.

The point is, the Chinese have everything you ever wanted on the street.
For $1.00 a disc.
It's INSANE!

[Xilmwa]

It was a joke.
Mojave commercials - Vista 08.

The point is, the Chinese have everything you ever wanted on the street.
For $1.00 a disc.
It's INSANE!
Ah, but how much of that is legitimate?

[ballzack]

Are you kidding?
None of it.
China has no laws about copyright infringement, especially when it comes to American software.

[Xilmwa]

Are you kidding?
None of it.
China has no laws about copyright infringement, especially when it comes to American software.

:eek: I should go live in China!!!

[ballzack]

It's an interesting country.
I've been there on business.
Not sure I'd go there for pleasure, but I guess I could make that work. ;)

80 percent of the country is like you may have seen in old history books. Rice fields, people living in huts, looking like Mao clones, and riding bicycles. Many of these people were born under Red China rules and still think it's the rule of the land.

20 percent is like New York City. Modern, upscale, 21st century and beyond.

When I was there, guys were on the street in the major cities hawking software. Some of it was a really good knock-off. Seriously. You'd be hard-pressed at first glance to realize it was NOT an authentic Microsoft package.

You could have come home with a suitcase full of software for $20.

Not worth a 15 hour plane ride, nor the lack of toilet paper or public toilets just to make that trip. Better off just buying software here. :)

[jacksonzachary]

One should definitely not infringe piracy law otherwise he/she has to pay fine or undergo harsh punishment.

[Phoenix]

One should definitely not infringe piracy law otherwise he/she has to pay fine or undergo harsh punishment.

If you get caught.

But yea, getting caught would suck. Isn't it like $10000 per title?

[General Septem]

One should definitely not infringe piracy law otherwise he/she has to pay fine or undergo harsh punishment.

It's a bullshit law that has no business being in effect. Something isn't bad just because it's illegal, more often it is the case that the law is bullshit.

[Phoenix]

It's a bullshit law that has no business being in effect. Something isn't bad just because it's illegal, more often it is the case that the law is bullshit.

I sort of get it. Software is like a couch. If someone takes your couch, you are going to want it back.

But at the same time, software is unlike a couch in that it can be reproduced n amount of times from the same source.

[You]

Heck why pay when you can go on The Pirate Bay and get anything you want there for free!
By the way, all of the software I use is either free or pirated. The only genuine software on my PC is Windows XP.





Go to China, walk down just about any street in a major city there, and you can buy anything you want for $1.00 American.
Want a working copy of Office 2008 professional? No problem. $1.00
Want Acrobat Professional? No problem. $1.00
You can also bargain.
Get Office 2008 Professional, Acrobat Professional, and have them throw in XP Pro and Vista 08, offer them $3.00 and they'll take it. :eek:

[yee-haw]

Heck why pay when you can go on The Pirate Bay and get anything you want there for free!
By the way, all of the software I use is either free or pirated. The only genuine software on my PC is Windows XP.

Great, Another liberal.:rolleyes:

[Rise Up]

Excellent. We can DEBATE with the lib. :cool:

[yee-haw]

He sounds like another one who just wants to argue, No debating.

[Rise Up]

He sounds like another one who just wants to argue, No debating.

IF he comes back. I'll check his others posts first though. :cool:

[General Septem]

Hell, why not? I'd still download stuff off of Piratebay if I wasn't worried about getting caught now.

[Rise Up]

Lol I use VBA. And I use Limewire though that isn't really illegal now, is it? :D

[Phoenix]

Lol I use VBA. And I use Limewire though that isn't really illegal now, is it? :D
Never heard of VBA. Limewire in 99% of cases is illegal.

Personally, I use Google.

[Rise Up]

Visual Boy Advance. If you can find the roms you're good. :cool:
I admit, I still play Pokemon. But I can't find the Gameboy and Gameboy Color games anymore so I have to resort to this. Unless I feel liking wasting cash on Ebay....:rolleyes:

[Phoenix]

Visual Boy Advance. If you can find the roms you're good. :cool:
I admit, I still play Pokemon. But I can't find the Gameboy and Gameboy Color games anymore so I have to resort to this. Unless I feel liking wasting cash on Ebay....:rolleyes:
I take it it's like MESS?

[Rise Up]

I take it it's like MESS?


MESS? :confused:

[LedZap]

I sort of get it. Software is like a couch. If someone takes your couch, you are going to want it back.

But at the same time, software is unlike a couch in that it can be reproduced n amount of times from the same source.

Software is like artwork and should not be pirated (stolen)

[Phoenix]

MESS? :confused:
Multiple Emulator Super System. It's uses ROMs to emulate older computers/consoles.

Software is like artwork and should not be pirated (stolen)
Yes, but in this case, you don't steal the original, you steal a copy.

It's extrapolation time.

When you go to a website, such as Microsoft.com, and download a program, such as Windows Defender, the Windows Defender install file is still on the Microsoft server, therefore, you have not taken anything.
Same goes for, say Windows Vista. If you illegally download Windows Vista, you aren't taking it from Microsoft, you are making a copy of it. Nothing is taken, and therefore nothing is stolen.

Piracy isn't stealing. It's just a violation of copyright law. Similar to marketing an exact replica of, say a particular computer case, which is patented. You haven't stolen the case, you have just made an illegal copy of it.

[LedZap]

Multiple Emulator Super System. It's uses ROMs to emulate older computers/consoles.

Yes, but in this case, you don't steal the original, you steal a copy.

It's extrapolation time.

When you go to a website, such as Microsoft.com, and download a program, such as Windows Defender, the Windows Defender install file is still on the Microsoft server, therefore, you have not taken anything.
Same goes for, say Windows Vista. If you illegally download Windows Vista, you aren't taking it from Microsoft, you are making a copy of it. Nothing is taken, and therefore nothing is stolen.

Piracy isn't stealing. It's just a violation of copyright law. Similar to marketing an exact replica of, say a particular computer case, which is patented. You haven't stolen the case, you have just made an illegal copy of it.

I don't agree.....I think it's theft pure and simple.But that's my opinion.People work long hard hours to create their software to sell.Anyone who duplicates it is stealing from them.Phoenix....you are very much into computers and probably study software production. You'll eventually see the money you can make writing programs to sell.Maybe even be successful in producing a fine program.When your product gets pirated , there goes your hard work , all for nothing.

[Phoenix]

I don't agree.....I think it's theft pure and simple.But that's my opinion.People work long hard hours to create their software to sell.Anyone who duplicates it is stealing from them.Phoenix....you are very much into computers and probably study software production. You'll eventually see the money you can make writing programs to sell.Maybe even be successful in producing a fine program.When your product gets pirated , there goes your hard work , all for nothing.

I understand that it doesn't help anyone. I don't want anyone pirating Mac OS X while I'm working at Apple, but I still don't think it's stealing. Still, it is as 100% morally wrong as theft.

I feel guilty every time I remember that I'm pirating OS X because I know Apple is such a generous company IMO. A large portion of Mac OS X is open-source, and you can download Mac OS up to 7. something. I eventually want to get my copy of Leopard legal, and will seize the first opportunity.

[You]

Great, Another liberal.:rolleyes:
No youre another one of the copyright liberalz i listen to Micheal Savage everyday!!! And he pwns libz!

[LedZap]

Heck why pay when you can go on The Pirate Bay and get anything you want there for free!
By the way, all of the software I use is either free or pirated. The only genuine software on my PC is Windows XP.

So you stole a lot of stuff. And you're real proud of yourself.

[yee-haw]

No youre another one of the copyright liberalz i listen to Micheal Savage everyday!!! And he pwns libz!

Well, Just for the record you can kiss my redneck ass!!!

How's that?

[You]

So you stole a lot of stuff. And you're real proud of yourself.

I COPIED A LOT OF STUFF NOT STOLE IT.

LETS SAY SOMEBODY INVENTS A DUPLICATOR THAT CAN MAKE AN EXACT COPY OF ANYTHIG, CHEAPLY. IF I WENT TO SOMEBODY'S HOUSE AND COPIED THEIR TV WOULD THAT BE STEALING?

[LedZap]

I COPIED A LOT OF STUFF NOT STOLE IT.

LETS SAY SOMEBODY INVENTS A DUPLICATOR THAT CAN MAKE AN EXACT COPY OF ANYTHIG, CHEAPLY. IF I WENT TO SOMEBODY'S HOUSE AND COPIED THEIR TV WOULD THAT BE STEALING?

If you illegally copy something , yes that's stealing.You can call it what you want , you're still a thief.

[You]

If you illegally copy something , yes that's stealing.You can call it what you want , you're still a thief.

Copying is not stealing. Get that you copyright freak.

[LedZap]

Copying is not stealing. Get that you copyright freak.

If you illegally copy something , yes that's stealing. NOTE the word ILLEGALLY. Do you know what that word means ?

[Phoenix]

If you illegally copy something , yes that's stealing. NOTE the word ILLEGALLY. Do you know what that word means ?
No, it's not stealing. I believe I've described why before; in order to steal, you have to actually take something.

On the flipside, this doesn't make it moral to pirate software. By not paying for software, you are basically shutting down the software industry. $$$$$$!!! WTF DO YOU THINK R&D HAS TO SPEND?

[LedZap]

No, it's not stealing. I believe I've described why before; in order to steal, you have to actually take something.

On the flipside, this doesn't make it moral to pirate software. By not paying for software, you are basically shutting down the software industry. $$$$$$!!! WTF DO YOU THINK R&D HAS TO SPEND?

Another dumbshit that doesn't understand what the word ILLEGAL means.

[Phoenix]

Another dumbshit that doesn't understand what the word ILLEGAL means.
Murder is illegal.
Rape is illegal.
Treason is illegal.
Yet none of those are stealing.

But of course, let's pull up three not-so-random definitions just to prove my point.
Illegal, or unlawful, is used to describe something that is prohibited or not authorized by law (http://forum.bullshit.com/wiki/Law) or, more generally, by rules (http://forum.bullshit.com/wiki/Rule) specific to a particular situation
In criminal law (http://forum.bullshit.com/wiki/Criminal_law), theft (also known as stealing or filching) is the illegal taking of another person's property (http://forum.bullshit.com/wiki/Property) without that person's freely-given consent (http://forum.bullshit.com/wiki/Consent).
Copyright infringement (or copyright violation) is the unauthorized use of material that is covered by copyright (http://forum.bullshit.com/wiki/Copyright) law, in a manner that violates one of the copyright owner's exclusive rights (http://forum.bullshit.com/wiki/Exclusive_right), such as the right to reproduce or perform the copyrighted work, or to make derivative works (http://forum.bullshit.com/wiki/Derivative_work).

Now, which one of these definitions most closely resembles software piracy?

[LedZap]

Murder is illegal.
Rape is illegal.
Treason is illegal.
Yet none of those are stealing.

But of course, let's pull up three not-so-random definitions just to prove my point.
Illegal, or unlawful, is used to describe something that is prohibited or not authorized by law (http://forum.bullshit.com/wiki/Law) or, more generally, by rules (http://forum.bullshit.com/wiki/Rule) specific to a particular situation
In criminal law (http://forum.bullshit.com/wiki/Criminal_law), theft (also known as stealing or filching) is the illegal taking of another person's property (http://forum.bullshit.com/wiki/Property) without that person's freely-given consent (http://forum.bullshit.com/wiki/Consent).
Copyright infringement (or copyright violation) is the unauthorized use of material that is covered by copyright (http://forum.bullshit.com/wiki/Copyright) law, in a manner that violates one of the copyright owner's exclusive rights (http://forum.bullshit.com/wiki/Exclusive_right), such as the right to reproduce or perform the copyrighted work, or to make derivative works (http://forum.bullshit.com/wiki/Derivative_work).

Now, which one of these definitions most closely resembles software piracy?

What does it matter , illegal is illegal.

[Phoenix]

What does it matter , illegal is illegal.
Illegal is illegal, I just don't want it being called the wrong thing even though really I shouldn't give much of a shit about it either way.
WTF ever happened to this philosiphy?
http://www.opengroup.org/products/publications/graphics/n900cov.jpg

[Carrot]

All my music's "stolen".

If I'd had to pay for it it would cost about 3000£. Fuck that.

If I'd had to pay, I wouldn't bought them, and I woudn't have heard of them, and neither would the millions of people who go to their concerts etc. Also. I can go on youtube and listen to them for free, completely legally, so it hardly matters.

I have also downloaded a couple of my pc games, or copied off a friend.

[LedZap]

All my music's "stolen".

If I'd had to pay for it it would cost about 3000£. Fuck that.

If I'd had to pay, I wouldn't bought them, and I woudn't have heard of them, and neither would the millions of people who go to their concerts etc. Also. I can go on youtube and listen to them for free, completely legally, so it hardly matters.

I have also downloaded a couple of my pc games, or copied off a friend.

Another law abiding citizen (of somewhere). :D

[yee-haw]

All my music's "gay"

Wow, Sorry to hear...:(

[freakazoid]

Originally Posted by Carrot http://forum.bullshit.com/haylazblue/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forum.bullshit.com/showthread.php?p=85013#post85013)
All my music's "gay"...OK then. :D

[ballzack]

All my music "ROCKS"

Even my Jazz collection...

Go figure!! :D

[Carrot]

So you're telling me that none of you have either downloaded music or had it copied off a friend?

And my music isn't gay. Apart from a few cheesy 80s hits. :D

[dmacfour]

At one point I was nearly up to 100,000 songs. about 10% of that came from CDs that I bought, another 10% from legal downloads, and the rest "borrowed" from the internet and friends.

All I have to say about the matter is that it is much more satisfying to have a physical CD than to download a CD. Why do I download then? Cause I'm a broke ass college student. And because I've bought new CDs just to find that there is one good song on them.

[You]

What does it matter , illegal is illegal.

Speeding is also illegal, yet most people on the highway are driving at least 5 miles MORE than the speed limit. The point is that not everything that is illegal is morally wrong. Some things are LEGAL and they are morally wrong. For example, abortion.

[LedZap]

Speeding is also illegal, yet most people on the highway are driving at least 5 miles MORE than the speed limit. The point is that not everything that is illegal is morally wrong. Some things are LEGAL and they are morally wrong. For example, abortion.

The way you are going on and on about it . it sounds like you're feeling guilty about something.I don't give a fuck what you do. Go ahead , break the law...steal something some other guy created. When someone steals from you it'll be the same thing right?

[Phoenix]

The way you are going on and on about it . it sounds like you're feeling guilty about something.I don't give a fuck what you do. Go ahead , break the law...steal something some other guy created. When someone steals from you it'll be the same thing right?
Wrong. Say someone breaks into your home and steals your television. Say it is the only one you have. Now, do you still have a television? No.

Say you make a program, and someone illegally downloads it. Do you still have the program, and also even the copyright to the work? YES!

Therefore, no, it is not the same.

[LedZap]

You can make excuses and spin it any way you want. I don't care , it's still illegal.

[Phoenix]

You can make excuses and spin it any way you want. I don't care , it's still illegal.

I didn't say it wasn't. Why do you insist on arguing against an imaginary statement?

[LedZap]

I didn't say it wasn't. Why do you insist on arguing against an imaginary statement?

What "imaginary statement".......I'm just stating that it is wrong to steal software. When someone creates software they make it to be copied and sold , not stolen by pirate copying.

[Phoenix]

What "imaginary statement".......I'm just stating that it is wrong to steal software. When someone creates software they make it to be copied and sold , not stolen by pirate copying.

You keep insisting that I'm saying it's either moral or not illegal. I've stated many times before that it is both immoral, and illegal, therefore, the question stands: Why do you insist on arguing with an imaginary statement?

[Carrot]

Illegal isn't synonymous with wrong.

It's illegal to drive with your seatbelt off too.

[Phoenix]

Illegal isn't synonymous with wrong.

It's illegal to drive with your seatbelt off too.

Yes, but it also isn't an antonym.

[LedZap]

You keep insisting that I'm saying it's either moral or not illegal. I've stated many times before that it is both immoral, and illegal, therefore, the question stands: Why do you insist on arguing with an imaginary statement?

I'm not "insisting" that you are saying anything Phoenix.This thread is about software piracy not you.

[LedZap]

Illegal isn't synonymous with wrong.

It's illegal to drive with your seatbelt off too.

It's not wrong to drive illegally ?

[Phoenix]

You can make excuses and spin it any way you want. I don't care , it's still illegal.


I'm not "insisting" that you are saying anything Phoenix.This thread is about software piracy not you.
I'm sorry, were you talking to You there? (damn that's confusing)

It's not wrong to drive illegally ?
Define wrong. By law, yes, but if you don't wear a seat belt, the only one you're going to hurt is yourself.

[LedZap]

By law, yes, but if you don't wear a seat belt, the only one you're going to hurt is yourself.

This thread is about software piracy. It's illegal. It's wrong. It's stealing.
If you want to talk about not wearing a seat belt , post another thread.

[Phoenix]

This thread is about software piracy. It's illegal. It's wrong. It's stealing.
If you want to talk about not wearing a seat belt , post another thread.
I believe I should know what the thread is about A) by the title, and B) by who the OP is.
And I'm not saying it's legal, or right. All I'm saying is, technically, it isn't stealing, it's just copyright infringement.

[Carrot]

It's illegal, big deal.

It's wrong in the same way going back for some orange juice at an open buffet is wrong. Except less so, because nothing physical is taken.

Pissing in public is illegal too. But if once in a while late at night you piss in the grass near a path it's not wrong. ffs.

[Phoenix]

It's illegal, big deal.

It's wrong in the same way going back for some orange juice at an open buffet is wrong. Except less so, because nothing physical is taken.

Pissing in public is illegal too. But if once in a while late at night you piss in the grass near a path it's not wrong. ffs.

Go look at how much R&D spends at Micrsoft, Apple, Sun, and any other major software company you can think of then report back here.

Microsoft has a 7 billion dollar R&D budget. What the hell do you think they spend? MagicMoney?
Apple's is 471 Million dollars.
Sun's is 2 billion.

[Carrot]

Well, I'm reffering mainly to music. Windows vista came with my laptop, and I used a friends CD for office (you can use them for two machines).

But it's hardly a big deal if you do get an illegal copy of the last version of windows. If someone you know has an illegal version you don't think less of them (well I don't). It crashed and you understandably can't be bothered paying what 100£ for a new one.

[Phoenix]

Well, I'm reffering mainly to music. Windows vista came with my laptop, and I used a friends CD for office (you can use them for two machines).

But it's hardly a big deal if you do get an illegal copy of the last version of windows. If someone you know has an illegal version you don't think less of them (well I don't). It crashed and you understandably can't be bothered paying what 100£ for a new one.

With music, there's a bit of a different issue. Odds are, with music, you have paid for a particular track time and again when it came out on records, then cassettes. It's less immoral in that sense.

With Office, it depends on the license. If you are actually pirating Office, you're a fucking scumbag because OpenOffice.org is just as competent, is 100% Microsoft Office compatible, and is 100% free. (as in beer, and freedom)

What exactly crashed in your example? The disc?

[yee-haw]

It's illegal, big deal.

It's wrong in the same way going back for some orange juice at an open buffet is wrong. Except less so, because nothing physical is taken.

Pissing in public is illegal too. But if once in a while late at night you piss in the grass near a path it's not wrong. ffs.

So, You're saying as long as you don't get caught, Fuck it!?

[Phoenix]

So, You're saying as long as you don't get caught, Fuck it!?

That's pretty much what he's saying.

[yee-haw]

That's pretty much what he's saying.

Jesus, I was afraid of that...:eek: WTF?

[Phoenix]

Jesus, I was afraid of that...:eek: WTF?

It's a criminal mentality.

[LedZap]

I believe I should know what the thread is about A) by the title, and B) by who the OP is.
And I'm not saying it's legal, or right. All I'm saying is, technically, it isn't stealing, it's just copyright infringement.

copyright infringement = stealing someones work

And I'm thrilled to know that you A)can read the title and B)won't be comparing this to seat belts (or maybe you will).

[LedZap]

It's illegal, big deal.

It's wrong in the same way going back for some orange juice at an open buffet is wrong. Except less so, because nothing physical is taken.

Pissing in public is illegal too. But if once in a while late at night you piss in the grass near a path it's not wrong. ffs.

It's perfectly fine to return for orange juice at an open buffet. You paid for it and can return over and over if you want.

Pissing in public even (especially) at night is illegal and carries a HIGH penalty in some states of the U.S. and abroad. Ozzie Osborn got caught doing that and paid a HUGE fine and got banned from the state of Texas forever.All for pissing on the grass (and the wall) of the Alamo. :D

To get back on subject.....If you think copying a musicians music (music he's selling to earn his livelihood) is no big deal , then I guess in your opinion you could steal anything else that's FOR SALE also , right?

[yee-haw]

Carrot, You limey thief! :mad:

[Phoenix]

copyright infringement = stealing someones work

And I'm thrilled to know that you A)can read the title and B)won't be comparing this to seat belts (or maybe you will).

Actually, Copyright infringement = illegally copying someones work without their permission, resulting in them loosing money.

[LedZap]

Actually, Copyright infringement = illegally copying someones work without their permission, resulting in them loosing money.

Actually, Copyright infringement = illegally copying someones work without their permission, resulting in them losing money , and you breaking the law (an illegal act)

[Phoenix]

Actually, Copyright infringement = illegally copying someones work without their permission, resulting in them losing money , and you breaking the law (an illegal act)

Hence the term "Illegal copy"

[LedZap]

Hence the term "Illegal copy"

Yes that's right....Illegal . And it only took 75 posts for you to understand.

[yee-haw]

Yes that's right....Illegal . And it only took 75 posts for you to understand.

75? Damn, He's getting better. :p

[Phoenix]

Yes that's right....Illegal . And it only took 75 posts for you to understand.
Sir oblivious, you should read post 33:

Murder is illegal.
Rape is illegal.
Treason is illegal.
Yet none of those are stealing.

But of course, let's pull up three not-so-random definitions just to prove my point.
Illegal, or unlawful, is used to describe something that is prohibited or not authorized by law (http://forum.bullshit.com/wiki/Law) or, more generally, by rules (http://forum.bullshit.com/wiki/Rule) specific to a particular situation
In criminal law (http://forum.bullshit.com/wiki/Criminal_law), theft (also known as stealing or filching) is the illegal taking of another person's property (http://forum.bullshit.com/wiki/Property) without that person's freely-given consent (http://forum.bullshit.com/wiki/Consent).
Copyright infringement (or copyright violation) is the unauthorized use of material that is covered by copyright (http://forum.bullshit.com/wiki/Copyright) law, in a manner that violates one of the copyright owner's exclusive rights (http://forum.bullshit.com/wiki/Exclusive_right), such as the right to reproduce or perform the copyrighted work, or to make derivative works (http://forum.bullshit.com/wiki/Derivative_work).

Now, which one of these definitions most closely resembles software piracy?
Notice that I declared software piracy illegal in that post. Where the hell have you been?

My position on this argument has been the same since the user known as You resurrected it:
Software piracy isn't stealing it's copyright infringement.

Nowhere in that sentence does it say, or even suggest that it isn't illegal. Again, I must inquire why you insist on arguing against an imaginary statement.

[Carrot]

So, You're saying as long as you don't get caught, Fuck it!?

No, I'm not.

I'm saying there are some things that just don't matter. You cycle on the pavement when the road's busy, the police aren't going to pull you over, unless they're being particularly anal. If you're desperate to piss and go somewhere late no one cares unless there happens to be police who would just have to be obliged to warn you. You can smoke a cuban, big deal.

If I had not downloaded music it wouldn't make any difference to anyone. I would probably just spend more time on youtube with a playlist of songs on there. No one loses out because I would never have bought them anyway. I'm not distributing them, or making money out of it. I have bought a few, but why not download music if I was never going to buy it anyway? Everyone does it (don't give me if everyone jumped off a cliff would you).

Technically, giving people mix tapes/cd's is illegal to. If I buy a cd, and give someone a couple of the songs I've just broken the law.

Sure, if the penalty was really high and the were going after people then I wouldn't, but wat are they going to do, arrest everyone under 25?

But I would never steal something physical, even if there was no possibility of getting caught.

[yee-haw]

Technically, giving people mix tapes/cd's is illegal to. If I buy a cd, and give someone a couple of the songs I've just broken the law.


No, Not even true... If you made a mix tape of songs you "legally" bought
you still own them bone head, Giving a mix tape is not stealing, Why are you so confuzzeled? < That's a hitek word by the way.:D

[Carrot]

No, Not even true... If you made a mix tape of songs you "legally" bought
you still own them bone head, Giving a mix tape is not stealing, Why are you so confuzzeled? < That's a hitek word by the way.:D

Legally, if you buy a cd, you can not then make copies of the songs and give them or the cd to someone else.

That's what illegal downloading is.

Also, it's ridiculous that I can watch a music video over and over completely legally on youtube, but the instant I make it so I can listen to it offline it's illegal.

[Phoenix]

Legally, if you buy a cd, you can not then make copies of the songs and give them or the cd to someone else.

That's what illegal downloading is.

Also, it's ridiculous that I can watch a music video over and over completely legally on youtube, but the instant I make it so I can listen to it offline it's illegal.

However, you are legally entitled to convert the media.

I don't know why I said that, just a random tidbit.

[LedZap]

Sir oblivious, you should read post 33:

Notice that I declared software piracy illegal in that post. Where the hell have you been?

My position on this argument has been the same since the user known as You resurrected it:
Software piracy isn't stealing it's copyright infringement.

Nowhere in that sentence does it say, or even suggest that it isn't illegal. Again, I must inquire why you insist on arguing against an imaginary statement.

OK Sir Idiotus......read this post......

Amendments to the 1976 Copyright Act

With the passage of the No Electronic Theft Act (NET Act), US copyright law was changed to allow for the civil and criminal prosecution of persons allegedly engaged in copying of copyrighted works without permission .

In addition, under this US law, members of software piracy groups could also be prosecuted for participation in a criminal enterprise.

Criminal offences

Acts that may be criminal offences in the UK include:

* making copies for the purpose of selling or hiring them to others
* importing infringing copies
* offering for sale or hire, publicly displaying or otherwise distributing infringing copies in the course of a business
* distributing a large enough number of copies to have a noticeable effect on the business of the copyright owner
* making or possessing equipment for the purposes of making infringing copies in the course of a business
* publicly performing a work in knowledge that the performance is unauthorised
* communicating copies or infringing the right to "make available" copies to the public (either in the course of a business, or to an extent that has a noticeable effect on the business of the copyright owner)
* manufacturing commercially, importing for non-personal use, possessing in the course of a business, or distributing to an extent that has a noticeable effect on the business of the copyright holder, a device primarily designed for circumventing a technological copyright protection measure.

The penalties for these copyright infringement offenses depend on the seriousness of the offenses, and may include:

* before a magistrates' Court, the penalties for distributing unauthorised files are a maximum fine of £5,000 and/or six months imprisonment;
* on indictment (in the Crown Court) some offenses may attract an unlimited fine and up to 10 years imprisonment.

Comparison to theft

Copyright infringement is often equated with theft in the U.S., for instance in the title of the No Electronic Theft Act of 1997


You say it's illegal file "copying"

I see it as stealing plain and simple.

[Phoenix]

I didn't say it wasn't as illegal, was unequal to theft, or even was more moral than theft. All I said was that technically, it isn't stealing, it's copyright infringement. This isn't an opinion.

[Rise Up]

I didn't say it wasn't as illegal, was unequal to theft, or even was more moral than theft. All I said was that technically, it isn't stealing, it's copyright infringement. This isn't an opinion.

Hey, why can't it be stealing AND copyright infringement? Makes more sense doesn't it? :rolleyes:

[You]

Hey, why can't it be stealing AND copyright infringement? Makes more sense doesn't it? :rolleyes:

Because you're not taking somebody's property, that's why.
Back when Vista came out, some hackers made a brute force keygen to get them a GENUINE serial number. It took several days, usually. However THIS was stealing, because somebody would purchase a license for Vista, and he would find out that somebody stole his license. However, most piracy involves copying movies, music and cracked software, WHICH is not stealing. Creating keygens for example is NOT even illegal. Even if you download a trial version of software, and then crack it yourself, that is not stealing ad it is not even illegal. However, if you put the cracked software up for others to download, that is copyright infringement, but not stealing. If you create an "activator" for software and put it up, that is not illegal either, as long as you don't include a copy of the software itself. Some cracks are used by legitimate users, who just want to get rid of restrictions such as cd checkers.

[Carrot]

Hey, why can't it be stealing AND copyright infringement? Makes more sense doesn't it? :rolleyes:

You're telling me you havn't downloaded music, or copied it off friends?

[Rise Up]

You're telling me you havn't downloaded music, or copied it off friends?

I have. I use Limewire to satisfy my music needs.

[Carrot]

I have. I use Limewire to satisfy my music needs.

It doesn't matter what you use, it would still be illegal.

[Rise Up]

It doesn't matter what you use, it would still be illegal.

Limewire is hosted by people who upload the music and allow people to download it from there. That's not illegal if it's sharing is it?

[LedZap]

I didn't say it wasn't as illegal, was unequal to theft, or even was more moral than theft. All I said was that technically, it isn't stealing, it's copyright infringement. This isn't an opinion.

Yes it is....your opinion.

[LedZap]

Because you're not taking somebody's property, that's why.


YOU are an idiot.When someone produces software and copyrights it , they OWN ALL the copies .....even the ones you illegally make. And they are certainly THEIR PROPERTY.

[Phoenix]

Yes it is....your opinion.

No it isn't.
Stealing is to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, esp. secretly or by force.

In order to take something, the person you are taking it from has to loose that which is taken. I believe that it is simple math. 1-1=0. Since in software piracy, nothing is taken, either physically or virtually, but instead copied, it is not theft, it is copyright violation. One does not take anything in software piracy, one copies something. Why is it that you cannot understand the concepts of basic math?

[LedZap]

No it isn't.
Stealing is to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, esp. secretly or by force.

In order to take something, the person you are taking it from has to loose that which is taken. I believe that it is simple math. 1-1=0. Since in software piracy, nothing is taken, either physically or virtually, but instead copied, it is not theft, it is copyright violation. One does not take anything in software piracy, one copies something. Why is it that you cannot understand the concepts of basic math?

Why is it that you cannot understand the concepts of basic copy write law? When you copy write software YOU OWN THE COPIES. Even the pirated copies.......If you copy something that's copy written , you are stealing it.

[Carrot]

Limewire is hosted by people who upload the music and allow people to download it from there. That's not illegal if it's sharing is it?

Yes, it is. You're downloading free music aren't you? Or not "official" shit sactioned by the artist.

[Phoenix]

Why is it that you cannot understand the concepts of basic copy write law? When you copy write software YOU OWN THE COPIES. Even the pirated copies.......If you copy something that's copy written , you are stealing it.

Why can't you? When you create a software work, and therefore an automatic copyright, you alone have the right to copy, or otherwise authorize copies of said work. If you copy it without the copyright owner's permission, you violate the copyright of the copyright owner.

In this respect, stealing is the equivalent of 1-1=0, while copyright infringement is 1*2=2

[LedZap]

When you create a software work, and therefore an automatic copyright, you alone have the right to copy, or otherwise authorize copies of said work. If you copy it without the copyright owner's permission, you violate the copyright of the copyright owner.

In this respect, stealing is the equivalent of 1-1=0, while copyright infringement is 1*2=2

Your math equivalent to this is nonsense. If you copy it without the copyright owner's permission, you are stealing it.

[Phoenix]

Your math equivalent to this is nonsense. If you copy it without the copyright owner's permission, you are stealing it.

No damnit you aren't. You are stealing a copy.

[LedZap]

No damnit you aren't. You are stealing a copy.

Yes STEALING a COPY.And the copy write provides that ALL COPIES are SOLE property of the software/music author. Hence the word STEALING...and now we're at 98 posts. Do you get it now ? (probably not).

[Phoenix]

Yes STEALING a COPY.And the copy write provides that ALL COPIES are SOLE property of the software/music author. Hence the word STEALING...and now we're at 98 posts. Do you get it now ? (probably not).

Well, actually, you are in a way stealing a copy, but in a way not. When you pirate software, it's kind of like going in and using a replicator on the Mona Lisa, then displaying it in your own home, except in a world in which the Mona Lisa is to have copies made of it any way and sold at a million dollars a piece. If you steal one (the equivalent say of a DVD) then you are technically stealing, but if you make a copy of it, you are not. You are instead making an illegal copy. This is technically true based on definitions you apparently don't have the mind to wrap around.

Besides this, if all copies are the sole property of the software author, why am I running Windows? Because of a license? If so, then any download of anything, whether you paid for it or not is illegal because you are not entitled to purchase the software.

[mak]

HAHAHA:confused::D

[LedZap]

Well, actually, you are in a way stealing a copy, but in a way not. When you pirate software, it's kind of like going in and using a replicator on the Mona Lisa, then displaying it in your own home, except in a world in which the Mona Lisa is to have copies made of it any way and sold at a million dollars a piece. If you steal one (the equivalent say of a DVD) then you are technically stealing, but if you make a copy of it, you are not. You are instead making an illegal copy. This is technically true based on definitions you apparently don't have the mind to wrap around.

Besides this, if all copies are the sole property of the software author, why am I running Windows? Because of a license? If so, then any download of anything, whether you paid for it or not is illegal because you are not entitled to purchase the software.

I don't have the mind to wrap around ? And this coming from someone who lives in denial of reality , where you equate software copying with replicators of the Mona Lisa? Snap out of it Phoenix , total fail there.

[You]

YOU are an idiot.When someone produces software and copyrights it , they OWN ALL the copies .....even the ones you illegally make. And they are certainly THEIR PROPERTY.

The biggest bullshit i have heard in a while. I made the copy, not the programmer.

[Phoenix]

I don't have the mind to wrap around ? And this coming from someone who lives in denial of reality , where you equate software copying with replicators of the Mona Lisa? Snap out of it Phoenix , total fail there.

....in a world where copies of it are being sold at a million dollars a piece.


Which would imply there would be a copyright on it.

I've given you definitions, I've shown the differences in math, I've given hypothetical situations. It appears to me that after 102 posts of this shit, you are wasting my time with this argument.

[LedZap]

The biggest bullshit i have heard in a while. I made the copy, not the programmer.

It doesn't matter who made the copy.Look it up.

[LedZap]

....in a world where copies of it are being sold at a million dollars a piece.


Which would imply there would be a copyright on it.

I've given you definitions, I've shown the differences in math, I've given hypothetical situations. It appears to me that after 102 posts of this shit, you are wasting my time with this argument.

Your fantasy worlds are bullshit along with your "definitions" and phony " hypothetical situations". Your use of math in this situation is laughable at best , but totally ignorant of what's actually happening. It appears to me that you waste everyone's time with your stupid posts.

[Montanarchist]

You can't own music for the same reason that you can't own the spoken word. Piracy is not a crime.

[Baron Somebody]

You can't own music for the same reason that you can't own the spoken word. Piracy is not a crime.

Thanks Joker lol, that is what I imagine you as...but this is the classic scenario of "OMG LOOK I STARTED THIS FIRST AND HE COPIED ME" like all those people who start "trends" do

[You]

Time to get rid of this shit thread which is wasting my time:

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x196/kinkyangel124/troll_spray2.jpg

[Phoenix]

Time to get rid of this shit thread which is wasting my time:

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x196/kinkyangel124/troll_spray2.jpg
It's wasting your time too?

[Montanarchist]

Thanks Joker lol, that is what I imagine you as...

To add some more realism to my posts then: http://i20.tinypic.com/2lthbib.jpg

[yee-haw]

Glad we're friends, Holy cow fuck... What kind of gun is that?

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9045/2lthbib.jpg (http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2lthbib.jpg)

[Montanarchist]

I don't even remember, that's on old picture and I was drunk as fuck there :D i would even doubt it's real.

[yee-haw]

I noticed the empties on the table, You do look mean as hell there though.:D

[Rise Up]

Nice MP5 w/ grenade launcher. *cough Airsoft cough*

[LedZap]

Time to get rid of this shit thread which is wasting my time:



This is for YOU

http://taylorhicksgirlfriend.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/258troll_spray.jpg

[General Septem]

Legally? It is whatever the lawmakers say it is. If they want to DEFINE it as "stealing", then that BY DEFINITION is what it is. To assign a legal term to an action is completely at the mercy of the axioms inherent in a particular legal system. And of course downloading music is illegal, no shit it's illegal.

But is it morally or ethically wrong? I would say it is not any more wrong than the record companies who charge $40 for a $0.75 piece of plastic, and then give the recording artists $0.23 of that. And I certainly would not say it is any more wrong than when record companies deprive children of their futures by fining them outrageous sums of money for one goddamn song.

And from a practical point of view, to claim ownership of a digital facsimile of recorded acoustic data is quite literally to claim ownership of a number, a number which is not even equivalent to the digital rendition of any compression of that same file. A 320K mp3 literally contains completely different data than the image of a CD does, they merely reproduce similar sounds when run through the appropriate program.

A law which everyone breaks to no harm ought not be a law in the first place.

[Phoenix]

Legally? It is whatever the lawmakers say it is. If they want to DEFINE it as "stealing", then that BY DEFINITION is what it is. To assign a legal term to an action is completely at the mercy of the axioms inherent in a particular legal system. And of course downloading music is illegal, no shit it's illegal.

But is it morally or ethically wrong? I would say it is not any more wrong than the record companies who charge $40 for a $0.75 piece of plastic, and then give the recording artists $0.23 of that. And I certainly would not say it is any more wrong than when record companies deprive children of their futures by fining them outrageous sums of money for one goddamn song.

And from a practical point of view, to claim ownership of a digital facsimile of recorded acoustic data is quite literally to claim ownership of a number, a number which is not even equivalent to the digital rendition of any compression of that same file. A 320K mp3 literally contains completely different data than the image of a CD does, they merely reproduce similar sounds when run through the appropriate program.

A law which everyone breaks to no harm ought not be a law in the first place.
Now that, I will fully agree with.

[LedZap]

Now that, I will fully agree with.

Really ? That's funny because when I posted the same thing "If they want to DEFINE it as "stealing", then that BY DEFINITION that is what it is." you practically SHIT a ring around yourself trying to convince me that it is not.

[Phoenix]

Really ? That's funny because when I posted the same thing "If they want to DEFINE it as "stealing", then that BY DEFINITION that is what it is." you practically SHIT a ring around yourself trying to convince me that it is not.

I tried to convince you it wasn't stealing by traditional definition, not legal definition.

Besides that, one word here actually refutes what you said: if.

[LedZap]

I tried to convince you it wasn't stealing by traditional definition, not legal definition.

Besides that, one word here actually refutes what you said: if.

Whatever you say phoenix , spin it this way , spin it that way.Nothing "refutes" what I posted........now go crawl back into your fantasy world.
Traditional definition , legal definition ...... same thing.

[Phoenix]

Whatever you say phoenix , spin it this way , spin it that way.Nothing "refutes" what I posted........now go crawl back into your fantasy world.
Traditional definition , legal definition ...... same thing.
Read this:
http://homepage.mac.com/simx/technonova/publications/the_difference_between_piracy_and_steal.html

And for what I was talking about in my first post, refer to this:
http://soldnotlicensed.blogspot.com/2007/10/sold-not-licensed.html

[LedZap]

Read this:
http://homepage.mac.com/simx/technonova/publications/the_difference_between_piracy_and_steal.html

And for what I was talking about in my first post, refer to this:
http://soldnotlicensed.blogspot.com/2007/10/sold-not-licensed.html

Anyone can write a Bullshit blog. TOTAL FAIL there buddy.

[Phoenix]

Anyone can write a Bullshit blog. TOTAL FAIL there buddy.

Right, because unless you agree with it, whether it gives a compelling argument or not, it's complete bullshit.

Besides, there really isn't any true blog post now is there?

[LedZap]

Right, because unless you agree with it, whether it gives a compelling argument or not, it's complete bullshit.

Besides, there really isn't any true blog post now is there?

There was nothing "compelling" there. Just another dumb kid trying to feel better about his stealing of software. And yes , there are plenty of "true" blog posts.

[Phoenix]

There was nothing "compelling" there. Just another dumb kid trying to feel better about his stealing of software. And yes , there are plenty of "true" blog posts.

Did you read it?
See, when a pirate downloads a full version of a piece of software, the pirate isn't leeching bandwidth from the company's servers. The pirate has to download the software from some other person who has already purchased it. So bandwidth costs because of the pirate are zero for the company. Furthermore, the pirate isn't depriving any other potential customer of the game: he has not physically removed a copy of the software from a store shelf. There's no loss of sale for the company there, either. Finally, the software company paid absolutely nothing for the packaging or manufacturing of the product. Given the nature of computer software, it was downloaded from someone else's computer; so no manufacturing was needed.

Hmmmm........yes....you must be one of those morons who thinks that people "loose" money by way of piracy.

[LedZap]

Did you read it?
See, when a pirate downloads a full version of a piece of software, the pirate isn't leeching bandwidth from the company's servers. The pirate has to download the software from some other person who has already purchased it. So bandwidth costs because of the pirate are zero for the company. Furthermore, the pirate isn't depriving any other potential customer of the game: he has not physically removed a copy of the software from a store shelf. There's no loss of sale for the company there, either. Finally, the software company paid absolutely nothing for the packaging or manufacturing of the product. Given the nature of computer software, it was downloaded from someone else's computer; so no manufacturing was needed.

Hmmmm........yes....you must be one of those morons who thinks that people "loose" money by way of piracy.

Hmmmm........yes ......you must be one of those morons who thinks that people DON"T LOSE money when others STEAL their hard work and say "it's OK , I'm just pirating it...there's no loss of bandwidth" WHAT A CROCK OF SHIT. Like usual total FAIL.

[yee-haw]

I have to agree with zapper here phoenix, You're a smart young man
but you're missing the entire point here.

[Rise Up]

Please Phoenix, concede on this issue. Before Zap seriously owns you.

[Phoenix]

Hmmmm........yes ......you must be one of those morons who thinks that people DON"T LOSE money when others STEAL their hard work and say "it's OK , I'm just pirating it...there's no loss of bandwidth" WHAT A CROCK OF SHIT. Like usual total FAIL.

First off, you cannot loose money you never had. Regardless of whether someone owes it to you, something non-existent cannot be lost. That's like me claiming someone stole my Macbook Air.

Next, how is bandwidth lost if the file isn't taken from the company's server. You apparently don't understand the concept of the BitTorrent Protocol.

Finally, I never claimed in this argument that "It's OK, I'm just pirating it." This is another imaginary statement you have created as a false argument against me. If you wish, you may look back and find that I've always said that software piracy limits the expansion of research and development, a vital part of software development, and therefore, piracy, while not technically stealing, is still 100% illegal, and 100% immoral.

[Phoenix]

I have to agree with zapper here phoenix, You're a smart young man
but you're missing the entire point here.

I understand the point here. The point is that corporate lawyers have been attempting to redefine the word "stealing" since the internet came into existence, and ledzap has bought into the bullshit.

And that blog post...I have plenty more where that came from.
http://thesaltedsolution.blogspot.com/2006/01/why-piracy-is-not-theft.html
http://meidell.dk/archives/2003/08/27/piracy-is-stealing/ - this one presents a bit different argument I never thought of.
http://www.charcoaldesign.co.uk/articles/piracy -don't let me catch you reading one sentence of this and stopping. Learn sarcasm.
http://dwellonit.taterunino.net/2009/04/13/piracy-is-stealing-not/
http://cornellsun.com/node/7310

[Carrot]

If companies spend millions developing a game, then everyone gets that game without paying for it, the company looses money.

If you spend 5 years writing a book, then everyone reads that book with only one or tw people buying it then you will feel bitter. Hard work for nothing.

[Phoenix]

If companies spend millions developing a game, then everyone gets that game without paying for it, the company looses money.

If you spend 5 years writing a book, then everyone reads that book with only one or tw people buying it then you will feel bitter. Hard work for nothing.

Now that is a different story. I did forget to mention that the companies can loose money only in that method, however, this almost never happens, for two reasons:
Not everyone is immoral enough to pirate software; some people want to help fund the next game
Even if the game is Open-Source, it is usually supported with donations (this right here tells you there is good in people) and sometimes advertising, if not foundations.

[Carrot]

Now that is a different story. I did forget to mention that the companies can loose money only in that method, however, this almost never happens, for two reasons:
Not everyone is immoral enough to pirate software; some people want to help fund the next game
Even if the game is Open-Source, it is usually supported with donations (this right here tells you there is good in people) and sometimes advertising, if not foundations.

1) It happens quite alot.
However, the effect isn't that large, because the vast majority of poeple who download the content wouldn't have bought it anyway.In terms of games, online play has gone a long way to encourage people to buy the originals.

2)Unless the download is sanctioned by the developer, the advertising profits only go to the domain owners, and "donations" are petty, and don't go to the developers.

[Montanarchist]

If companies spend millions developing a game, then everyone gets that game without paying for it, the company looses money.

If you spend 5 years writing a book, then everyone reads that book with only one or tw people buying it then you will feel bitter. Hard work for nothing.

But if well understood with the conditions of the gaming or writing industry they wouldn't attempt such a thing in the fist place.

[Carrot]

But if well understood with the conditions of the gaming or writing industry they wouldn't attempt such a thing in the fist place.

Well, it has been somewhat negated by internet gaming. And books are physical copies, how pathetic is scanning in a whole book. I was just using it as an example.

That and they are still turning a profit. I was pointing out to Phoenix where they loose money (as in potential profit).

[ballzack]

Not sure if I posted this before, but I was in China a few years ago. You literally could walk down the street and buy ANY software you wanted. Windows XP Professional, Microsoft Office Professional, SQL Server, any game you could imagine. ALL FOR $1.00 American. Some 2/$1.00
My V.P. came home with a suitcase full of software and games for his kids.
It all worked. It was all pirated. China has no reasonable copyright laws as we know them.
It was a field day for anyone that wanted any sort of software or game OR movies. DVD or CD ROM format. Anything you could imagine. Even stuff that was ABOUT to hit the Theaters. Amazing.

[Rise Up]

Not sure if I posted this before, but I was in China a few years ago. You literally could walk down the street and buy ANY software you wanted. Windows XP Professional, Microsoft Office Professional, SQL Server, any game you could imagine. ALL FOR $1.00 American. Some 2/$1.00
My V.P. came home with a suitcase full of software and games for his kids.
It all worked. It was all pirated. China has no reasonable copyright laws as we know them.
It was a field day for anyone that wanted any sort of software or game OR movies. DVD or CD ROM format. Anything you could imagine. Even stuff that was ABOUT to hit the Theaters. Amazing.

No wonder they're taking our jobs!!! :eek::(

[Carrot]

They tuk aur juuubs!

[LedZap]

First off, you cannot loose money you never had. Regardless of whether someone owes it to you, something non-existent cannot be lost. That's like me claiming someone stole my Macbook Air.



You LOSE the money that you would have EARNED if paid for the copies SOLD.

"That's like me claiming someone stole my Macbook Air." is the stupidest comparison yet Phoenix.Like usual TOTAL FAIL.

[Phoenix]

You LOSE the money that you would have EARNED if paid for the copies SOLD.

"That's like me claiming someone stole my Macbook Air." is the stupidest comparison yet Phoenix.Like usual TOTAL FAIL.

You cannot loose something that does not exist.

Though, I agree that money is owed to the software developer.

[Rise Up]

You cannot loose something that does not exist.

Once the copy is made it exists. Therefore....you can shut the fuck up and just concede on the issue.

[Sir Awesome]

I'd say I have pirated roughly 1000 gigabytes of all kinds of stuff. I'm a big time pirate. I have about 100 pirated video games on my computer, bout 200 movies, and a fuckload of music. Debate that

[Rise Up]

I'd say I have pirated roughly 1000 gigabytes of all kinds of stuff. I'm a big time pirate. I have about 100 pirated video games on my computer, bout 200 movies, and a fuckload of music. Debate that

Uhh.......go to hell. I can understand music but video games? Shit, it's not like you can't just buy them dipshit. Movies are even worse to pirate because they are usually shit, AND, you can just go to a library or a movie rental store, like Blockbuster, and RENT them. I'd take it that most of those gigabytes are music?

[Sir Awesome]

Oh, boo-fucking-hoo. Nope, music is just a small portion. Lets see... Bout 250GBs of games, bout 500 of movies, and maybe 30GBs of music

[Rise Up]

I'm not whining about it. I just think it's pointless to pirate movies and video games. The most I do is use Limewire. That's it.

[Carrot]

I'm not whining about it. I just think it's pointless to pirate movies and video games. The most I do is use Limewire. That's it.

Lime wire is downloading pirated stuff.

Besides when it comes to film you can watch them completely free on the net, and then it's the uploader breaking the law, not you. Plus it's faster.

[You]

http://gallery.eggwan.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=27417&g2_serialNumber=2

This better work, it's supposed to be Extra Strength!

[Sir Awesome]

Lime wire is downloading pirated stuff.

Besides when it comes to film you can watch them completely free on the net, and then it's the uploader breaking the law, not you. Plus it's faster.

You mean watching movies on the net with shit quality and a fuckload of buffering? No thanks... And downloading is just as legal as watching on the net.

[Carrot]

You mean watching movies on the net with shit quality and a fuckload of buffering? No thanks... And downloading is just as legal as watching on the net.

The ones I find buffer faster than the play speed, and if you take a second to look the quality is fine.

As for legality, then you watching it isn't illegal, it's the poster who is liable. Because you didn't try posses a copy. It's like if you watch it somewhere public where it's unliscenced.

[Phoenix]

The ones I find buffer faster than the play speed, and if you take a second to look the quality is fine.

As for legality, then you watching it isn't illegal, it's the poster who is liable. Because you didn't try posses a copy. It's like if you watch it somewhere public where it's unliscenced.

Actually, when watching a video online, the video must be cached locally (buffering) which means that you have literally downloaded the video.

[Carrot]

But since you cannot play it offline and don't really posses a copy, or intend to posses a copy it isn't illegal.

And whe it come sto music it definately isn't illegal to watch a music vid on youtube, even though it is to download them, same with movies.

[Phoenix]

But since you cannot play it offline and don't really posses a copy, or intend to posses a copy it isn't illegal.

And whe it come sto music it definately isn't illegal to watch a music vid on youtube, even though it is to download them, same with movies.

If the video is still cached and you are skilled enough, you can. By legal law, stealing says you are "taking another's possessions with intent to deprive," therefore, if you aren't willing to deprive, it isn't stealing.

Still, it could be copyright infringement, but I'm not sure.

Supposedly, videos that aren't authorized by the record company are actually illegal, but I'm not sure on that either.

[yee-haw]

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/7471/monkeyr.gif (http://img7.imageshack.us/my.php?image=monkeyr.gif)

[Carrot]

I'm telling you, no one will EVER be arrested for watching something online in terms of copyright infringement. The only people action will ever be taken against is people who put it up there.

You know the messages at the beginnings of DVDs etc where it says it may not be played in public areas/ or sold. If someone plays it on a projector screen in a park and you stop and watch you can't be held accountable, but the person who owns the dvd/ played it can be.

[LedZap]

If the video is still cached and you are skilled enough, you can. By legal law, stealing says you are "taking another's possessions with intent to deprive," therefore, if you aren't willing to deprive, it isn't stealing.

Still, it could be copyright infringement, but I'm not sure.

Supposedly, videos that aren't authorized by the record company are actually illegal, but I'm not sure on that either.

Yeah....you're not sure alright.

[Sir Awesome]

Downloading isn't actually illegal, only uploading. Believe me, I'm a professional :cool:

[Rise Up]

Downloading isn't actually illegal, only uploading. Believe me, I'm a professional :cool:

When you end up in jail, I will laugh. Oh wait, you guys don't have jails because your nation is so 'perfect'!!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[You]

|-|0w m4ny 71m35 d0 1 h4v3 70 73|| y0u 70 570p f33d1n6 7h15 fr34k1n6 7r0||! |\/|4y83 54y1n6 17 1n |337 w1|| h3|p.

[Sir Awesome]

Man, you guys should seriously look up the word "Troll", cause you obviously have no idea what it means. Also, troll is a Norwegian word :D

[Rise Up]

And? Trolls are annoying. And I am not one, all of my posts aren't in leet, they are legible, and I attempt to stay on topic though sometimes I go off topic. He's posted porn, he'll be banned once the General and Haw log on.

[Sir Awesome]

Who, the You guy?

[Rise Up]

Yeah. This forum has a no porn policy. Better than other forums.....:rolleyes:;)

[Carrot]

Downloading isn't actually illegal, only uploading. Believe me, I'm a professional :cool:

It is illegal. There's no if or buts about it, even though 99% of people (including the police) don't give a crap. But uploading is a bit more serious.

[Sir Awesome]

Does ANYONE give a shit about it?

[LedZap]

Does ANYONE give a shit about it?

You obviously don't.

[Sir Awesome]

Of course I don't

[LedZap]

And you're real proud of it.

[Sir Awesome]

When have I ever said I was proud of it? But it's not like I'm ashamed of it.

[LedZap]

Go to college....learn how to write software....sell your software on the market...notice how when others illegally download it , you start to "give a shit".

[Phoenix]

Go to college....learn how to write software....sell your software on the market...notice how when others illegally download it , you start to "give a shit".

Tell that to Linus Torvolds.

[Sir Awesome]

How many people do you think download Microsoft software? A lot. Is Bill Gates going out of business any time soon? Short answer; no. Long answer; nooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

[LedZap]

That makes it OK ?

[Phoenix]

That makes it OK ?
He has a point. Microsoft products have a really high piracy rate, yet Microsoft still spends billions on R&D. No, it doesn't make it OK, but he has a point.

Besides, it hurts the consumer. Damn activation.

[LedZap]

It hurts the consumer ? Yeah right....nobody's forcing you to use anything . Wise up.

[Phoenix]

It hurts the consumer ? Yeah right....nobody's forcing you to use anything . Wise up.

Wow. I didn't mean me. And obviously nobody's forcing anyone to use Windows because the normal consumer DEFINITELY UNDERSTANDS HOW TO USE A FUCKING UNIX-LIKE OPERATING SYSTEM YOU FUCKING DOUCHE!
My fucking mom doesn't even know what a fucking web browser is. You really think she's going to understand sudo apt-get update?

And aren't you part of that idiotic group that thinks that Macs suck because they have no games? Try running HALO in Wine. I dare you.

You obviously weren't thinking or do not understand the concept of a monopoly on software.

And what in the case where one buys a copy of Windows, does not agree to the EULA and returns it only to find that the store does not accept returns? Isn't that kind of a waste of money?

Besides, the fact of the matter isn't that people may not be literally constricted to Windows, but because of their needs, applications, and intelligence level, it is usually required.

However, what does force have to do with the statement that piracy has caused Microsoft to implement activation. I believe we've had at least one thread on how annoying that is.

[LedZap]

Wow. I didn't mean me. And obviously nobody's forcing anyone to use Windows because the normal consumer DEFINITELY UNDERSTANDS HOW TO USE A FUCKING UNIX-LIKE OPERATING SYSTEM YOU FUCKING DOUCHE!
My fucking mom doesn't even know what a fucking web browser is. You really think she's going to understand sudo apt-get update?

And aren't you part of that idiotic group that thinks that Macs suck because they have no games? Try running HALO in Wine. I dare you.

You obviously weren't thinking or do not understand the concept of a monopoly on software.

And what in the case where one buys a copy of Windows, does not agree to the EULA and returns it only to find that the store does not accept returns? Isn't that kind of a waste of money?

Besides, the fact of the matter isn't that people may not be literally constricted to Windows, but because of their needs, applications, and intelligence level, it is usually required.

However, what does force have to do with the statement that piracy has caused Microsoft to implement activation. I believe we've had at least one thread on how annoying that is.

Just cause your mom is stupid doesn't mean everyone else is , YOU FUCKING DOUCHE!

[Rise Up]

How many people do you think download Microsoft software? A lot. Is Bill Gates going out of business any time soon? Short answer; no. Long answer; nooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

I believe Bill Gates sold the rights to Microsoft.....

[Phoenix]

Just cause your mom is stupid doesn't mean everyone else is , YOU FUCKING DOUCHE!
It also doesn't mean everyone else isn't. Eventually, we'll get everyone computer literate (when the last 2 generations die out) but until then, the majority are either going to use Windows because they think this is a popularity contest, because they're too stupid or too lazy to learn Linux, BSD, or Solaris, or they don't want to spend money on a new computer.
Still, you missed the entire point of my post. The point is that Product Activation is a direct result of Piracy, nothing else. No one gets up in the morning and says "Hey! I think I'm going to randomly distrust everyone even though there's no piracy and make everyone register their copy of Windows and their computer to the Microsoft server." It just doesn't work that way.

Piracy hurts the paying user in this way: The paying user buys a copy of Windows, installs it and has to activate during setup, or if it can't find their internet connection, and has to activate later. If it can't find it then, you have to telephone into Microsoft, which is 6 minutes of your precious time wasted.

The software pirate, on the other hand, runs a simple activation hack, and bypasses the entire measure.


I believe Bill Gates sold the rights to Microsoft.....
Bill Gates hasn't been CEO of Microsoft since 2000.