Can abortion be kind?

[Jimminny]

In a hypothetical situation, if two parents knew that if they ever had a child it would spend its life in crippling pain, as a result they took as many precautions as they could to stop it from occuring. Somehow the woman still managed to pregnant and they decide to abort their baby to spare it from a life of suffering.

Would this still be a terrible act? If so, if the child later decides after spending a solid slab of its life in neverending pain that it really can't deal with it anymore and decides to be euthanised, is this a better result? Or equally as reprehensible?

[hitekredneck]

great question...in either case, it's simply the choice of the parents....both of em...and in either case, it's a choice only they know if they can live with...i think what your question really is, is it better to live a poor quality of life in pain and misery, or better to simply not live...:cool:

[MrJim]

In a hypothetical situation, if two parents knew that if they ever had a child it would spend its life in crippling pain, as a result they took as many precautions as they could to stop it from occuring. Somehow the woman still managed to pregnant and they decide to abort their baby to spare it from a life of suffering.

Would this still be a terrible act? If so, if the child later decides after spending a solid slab of its life in neverending pain that it really can't deal with it anymore and decides to be euthanised, is this a better result? Or equally as reprehensible?

No one can know a child's future. No one. If someone puts a child up for adoption, it's all up to chance - and I feel like if someone puts all the effort and money into adopting a child, they are serious about doing their best to raise it. Abortion is not kind, it's merely giving up before even trying.

[Carrot]

There's a case on the news at the moment about a woman who is pregnan with conjoined twins, one of which has an underdeveloped body. The doctors have advised her to have an abortion (low survival rate, possible pain to twins), but she is a catholic and wants to give them a chance.

Sparing a life from neverending physical pain can be kind, but where do you draw the line, and who are we to say?

Aborting to spare a life from the 'trauma' of adoption isn't being kind, it's being selfish.

[Paisleyspeaker]

Honestly I do think the child after trying to live deciding it's own fate is the "better" option. You can never be completely sure what the outcome is going to be. What if two weeks after the parents had the proceedure, medical science makes a breakthrough and their child would have been fine?

[Carrot]

What if two weeks after the parents had the proceedure, medical science makes a breakthrough and their child would have been fine?

Playing the devil's advocate here, but how often does this happen, and dont you think they would know if they were on the cusp on something? Then the doctors could advise accordingly.

Then again, I watched this documentary about someone with a genetic disorder where their skin wasn't attached to their body properly, and they had to constantly be bandaged up, didn't grow properly, would never be able to have sex and suffered through extremely painful bandage changes every 4 days. He was in his 40s I think.

However, it was amazing to see that he seemed cheerful at times, and had a good sense of humour, I don't think I would be able to cope. The documentary was about him, and the last months of his life. It really put (getting deep here) aspects of life into perspective.

Watching that I don't know if I would encourage an abortion if someone had it. Even though he seemed cheerful, he was also really looking forward to dying (VERY strong afterlife beleifs 'think it was humanism/just spiritual, but I would beleive that too in his psiton) and was sick of how his life was going, all that kept him going was that this was a test. It also required round the clock help/care, from his mum, for 40 years.

I hope I never have to make that choice, but deep, deep down. I think I would have abort in that situation.

[DressUpYourPet]

What is more likely
1-billybob gets aborted by mom who is too young, too unmarried too poor or just cant deal with a kid. End of story.
2-billybob gets popped out alive anyway. He grows up to become the next einstein, cures cancer and invents a device to split the atom using a can opener.
3. billybob gets popped out alive anyway. He grows up in a life of poverty, abuse and shit, becomes a criminal punk and lifes a life of misery in and out of jail where he is forced to learn the prison meaning of tossed salad until he dies a merciful death under a subway or in a prison stabbing during his nasty brutish and short existence.

Pick 1, 2, or 3 what is MOST likely.

[Montanarchist]

Of the three, I'll say nr.1.

[MrJim]

What is more likely
1-billybob gets aborted by mom who is too young, too unmarried too poor or just cant deal with a kid. End of story.
2-billybob gets popped out alive anyway. He grows up to become the next einstein, cures cancer and invents a device to split the atom using a can opener.
3. billybob gets popped out alive anyway. He grows up in a life of poverty, abuse and shit, becomes a criminal punk and lifes a life of misery in and out of jail where he is forced to learn the prison meaning of tossed salad until he dies a merciful death under a subway or in a prison stabbing during his nasty brutish and short existence.

Pick 1, 2, or 3 what is MOST likely.

I refuse to pick one because you have merely assigned your own predictions based on nothing more than stereotypical assumptions and biased interpretations.

How about option 4. "Billybob" decides what he wants to do with his own life and doesn't blame or credit someone else for life's fortunes or shortcomings...

[General Septem]

Or option 5. Billybob is born a crack baby and starves to death in a dumpster because his mom got dumped by her pimp for getting oral crabs.

[MrJim]

Or option 5. Billybob is born a crack baby and starves to death in a dumpster because his mom got dumped by her pimp for getting oral crabs.

You seem to be preoccupied with such a stereotypical stance, General. Could it be that you have some experience in the ghetto?

[General Septem]

You seem to be preoccupied with such a stereotypical stance, General. Could it be that you have some experience in the ghetto?

No, I was just scrambling for the most absurd scenario I could.

What if we were to assume the baby is going to be born in a place where it will be utterly impossible for that child to have any chance at a life other than one of constant suffering? Certain places in Africa come to mind. Between the overpopulation and the fact that they live in a desert, there's no way.

[MrJim]

No, I was just scrambling for the most absurd scenario I could.

What if we were to assume the baby is going to be born in a place where it will be utterly impossible for that child to have any chance at a life other than one of constant suffering? Certain places in Africa come to mind. Between the overpopulation and the fact that they live in a desert, there's no way.

In that case we're talking about Africa's abortion rights, not our own.

BUT, if you want to go that route, those starving Etheopians know how shitty life is, so why are they reproducing? Shouldn't they be more concentrated on something to eat than a piece of (decaying) ass...

Now back to the New World. You can take someone in the middle of the Ghetto born to welfare parents with little chance of a better life... now that person can rise above this or play the victim; either way, an abortion is a guaranteed failure while the child's life is a probable failure. But it is that child's choice nonetheless. Probable vs. impossible.

[General Septem]

In that case we're talking about Africa's abortion rights, not our own.

No, we're talking about whether abortion can be kind, which is the subject of this thread.


BUT, if you want to go that route, those starving Etheopians know how shitty life is, so why are they reproducing? Shouldn't they be more concentrated on something to eat than a piece of (decaying) ass...

Who knows? This is half of their problem. Despite relief groups in Africa giving out condoms, nobody actually uses them. And then you have the rape issue. Personally I think if we want to help the people in Africa, we should go in there and make rape a capital offense. Thin the herd a bit.


Probable vs. impossible.

I don't see it that way, I see it as a humane solution to an almost guaranteed life of misery. Maybe the girl's family would abuse the kid or something. Just because it's possible to rise above a situation of constant suffering doesn't mean a child always will, nor does it make it that person's fault if they don't. Again, the question is if abortion can be kind, not whose fault is it if a kid ends up mangled in a woodchipper by an abusive father.

If you really think we're talking about lazy assholes here, think of it this way: it's one less person in the welfare line.

[Phoenix]

In a hypothetical situation, if two parents knew that if they ever had a child it would spend its life in crippling pain, as a result they took as many precautions as they could to stop it from occuring. Somehow the woman still managed to pregnant and they decide to abort their baby to spare it from a life of suffering.

Would this still be a terrible act? If so, if the child later decides after spending a solid slab of its life in neverending pain that it really can't deal with it anymore and decides to be euthanised, is this a better result? Or equally as reprehensible?
Well, if you are 100% sure, yes. Even I would say to have the abortion.

[MrJim]

I don't see it that way, I see it as a humane solution to an almost guaranteed life of misery. Maybe the girl's family would abuse the kid or something. Just because it's possible to rise above a situation of constant suffering doesn't mean a child always will, nor does it make it that person's fault if they don't. Again, the question is if abortion can be kind, not whose fault is it if a kid ends up mangled in a woodchipper by an abusive father.

There are far too many variables to assume an "almost guaranteed life of misery". When a soon-to-be parent can comfortably reach this hypothesis, adoption is a very viable option - it could even be a relative. I myself was adopted by my grandparents because my parents were dirt poor and had crappy living conditions. I don't live in misery; life has its ups and downs.

[.:Ruined-Sorrow:.]

ur an az hole to ask tht question ..
itz totally unkind .. bullshit :eek:

[MrJim]

ur an az hole to ask tht question ..
itz totally unkind .. bullshit :eek:

Yeah, I agree, what an az hole!

[DressUpYourPet]

If the kid had a decent shot at life, abortion would never cross baby momma's mind. Unwanted babies had by women who know they cannot or will not support them are as likely to have a decent life as i am to crap out a bar of gold. Life aint all that great for most people anyway let alone add some additional hell and horror just for kicks because no one is willing to raise you right. And so chances are really high you turn out all screwed up, crazy and drug addicted, and lead a miserable life. Spare the unborn soul all that hell on earth and if the mother thinks abortion is the best option, it probably is!

[Rise Up]

If the kid had a decent shot at life, abortion would never cross baby momma's mind. Unwanted babies had by women who know they cannot or will not support them are as likely to have a decent life as i am to crap out a bar of gold. Life aint all that great for most people anyway let alone add some additional hell and horror just for kicks because no one is willing to raise you right. And so chances are really high you turn out all screwed up, crazy and drug addicted, and lead a miserable life. Spare the unborn soul all that hell on earth and if the mother thinks abortion is the best option, it probably is!

Never use that word again!!!! That goes for everyone else!!! So godamned annoying.

[General Septem]

Never use that word again!!!! That goes for everyone else!!! So godamned annoying.

What word, baby or momma? You highlighted two. Did you mean phrase? :D

[Rise Up]

Oh yeah I meant the phrase. I hear it WAY to much around here. :(

[LedZap]

Oh yeah I meant the phrase. I hear it WAY to much around here. :(

Baby momma ? You hear it WAY to much around here ? You said "Never use that word again!!!! That goes for everyone else!!! So godamned annoying."
Well lighten up....riiiSUP , my baby momma . :D

[yee-haw]

I feel ya...

[Rise Up]

I meant at my school. About 20% of the guy's here have a,*shudder* baby momma. They complain about having a kid because they can't get dates. It's hilarious. :D

[bullfighter]

In a hypothetical situation, if two parents knew that if they ever had a child it would spend its life in crippling pain, as a result they took as many precautions as they could to stop it from occuring. Somehow the woman still managed to pregnant and they decide to abort their baby to spare it from a life of suffering.

Would this still be a terrible act? If so, if the child later decides after spending a solid slab of its life in neverending pain that it really can't deal with it anymore and decides to be euthanised, is this a better result? Or equally as reprehensible?

could it be said for the 40,ooo childern dying everyday of starvation.should they stop the pain and suffering and kill them now with coolaid or something friendly. a child born hideus and deformed with brain damage .was a abortion there best answer..god only knows. every situation has people with the choices and the results of them choices. what a evil world we are in.thankgod that when christ returnes this will all go away..

[DressUpYourPet]

I refuse to pick one because you have merely assigned your own predictions based on nothing more than stereotypical assumptions and biased interpretations.

How about option 4. "Billybob" decides what he wants to do with his own life and doesn't blame or credit someone else for life's fortunes or shortcomings...


dear mr Jim,

life's a crap shoot that involves, mostly crap. All of us will die. Does it matter if it is in the womb or after several decades of misery.

[yee-haw]

dear mr Jim,

life's a crap shoot that involves, mostly crap. All of us will die. Does it matter if it is in the womb or after several decades of misery.

A little bit of a bleek out look there, Aint it?:rolleyes:

[DressUpYourPet]

To all of you pro lifers i ask you the following, whats a life worth anyway? Yours, mine, everyone you know. We will all die. My take is if quality of life is bound to be horrible, do the sane thing and let them go to God!

If you are pro life you ought to start taking in unwanted children, as many as you can afford. If you do this, surely you will offer them a better life. If you are hot air and no action, none of your arguments is valid to me.

In Europe they generally have a pragmatic attitude towards abortion and allow it without giving it much media attention. I have known women who had an abortion because of their mental and economic situation at the time. Said woman went on to have the most lovely child a girl who is now 13. I fully realize you are toying with life but reality is brutal and uncompromising and many people now are simply trying to survive like a critter from the woods! Forget all about "God will provide" via the hispanics rationale, i have known many and alot of them are totally ignorant and absent of sensibilities. (Dont bother flaming me i said MANY!)

To sum it up, here is the sensible approach -
1 - allow abortion for any woman who wants one.
2-give them counselling first and dont beat them over the head with it either.
3-if a woman decides to abort, there ought to be nothing going on that accuses her of murder. She needs to survive just as you and i do and if a child is simply too heavy a burden, there's no reason to make her suffer more. Allow her to move on.

I am 48 and have no children. I like them for all their exhausting attention and i am not averse of having any. (No, im not a virgin.) I feel absolutely no regret at not having kids since the world is not going to get better anytime soon.

[MrJim]

dear mr Jim,

life's a crap shoot that involves, mostly crap. All of us will die. Does it matter if it is in the womb or after several decades of misery.

Dear DressUpYourPet,

Life is a journey. It is what you make of it. Dwelling on negative aspects of life and acknowledging nothing positive only leads to fear and misery. No matter what you think life should have been, it is what is; best enjoy what you can while you can.

[aslan]

but the child in the womb is human as anybody and they should be allowed a chance to live

[takeshi007]

There is no good about abortion those parents didn't appreciate the life of a child they are destroying it because they can't take their problem. I know that I don't have permission to offense them but please as well as possible stop abortion.