$2.50 to $3.00 a gallon - The MAGIC number?

[ballzack]

Notice how quickly gas moved up from $1.70 to $2.50?
The magic number is between $2.50 and $3.00. Expect it to remain here barring any huge swing in speculation.
Why you ask?

Low enough to allow most to drive to work and back without too much pain.

High enough to make most think twice about driving 1000 miles out of state for that family vacation.

My theory? Really? Have YOU been to DC and talked to legislators about Cap and Trade and how the Government wishes us to micro our world to "Save the Environment and conserve energy?"

'nuff said.

We're being manipulated and we're sitting and taking it while our Federal Government goes wildly left to Fascist Socialism with a Marxist twist. Believe it. We're there.

[Phoenix]

Notice how quickly gas moved up from $1.70 to $2.50?
The magic number is between $2.50 and $3.00. Expect it to remain here barring any huge swing in speculation.
Why you ask?

Low enough to allow most to drive to work and back without too much pain.

High enough to make most think twice about driving 1000 miles out of state for that family vacation.

My theory? Really? Have YOU been to DC and talked to legislators about Cap and Trade and how the Government wishes us to micro our world to "Save the Environment and conserve energy?"

'nuff said.

We're being manipulated and we're sitting and taking it while our Federal Government goes wildly left to Fascist Socialism with a Marxist twist. Believe it. We're there.
High gas prices, IMO, is due to much-needed embargoes in the middle east, as well as corporate greed. Funny. One is government based, and the other, I get to blame something else on capitalism.

But seriously, perhaps we should all stop bitching about how high the gas is and fucking do something about it. We have a whole fucking universe of alternative fuel (solar, wind, geothermal, E85, Propane, electric) so I say fuck gas.
It might be only 2.05 a gallon, but hell that's better than an average 2.47 a gallon. I say go get your engine modded and start using E85. And I know your excuse. Well E85 isn't widely supported.
Got news for you. That's called Capitalism. If something isn't widely used, it won't be widely supported. That's how capitalism works. If you create a demand, a supply will be created.

[ballzack]

That's a very naive viewpoint, but given your youth, expected. I would have said that at your age. Unfortunately, age and wisdom take time. But take heart my young friend, you shall grow older and wiser.

Oil is PLENTIFUL, SELF-GENERATING (it's made by the Earth on-going NOT from Dinosaurs as some wack-job far left loonies would have you believe) and contrary to the liberal media, fairly cheap to produce. Also, the SYSTEM to DISTRIBUTE it is entrenched and working.

Disrupting this to go to hydrogen, or solar, or other ridiculous greenie-weenie energy is absurd.

Now, if you want to CONTROL people in America, what do you do? FIRST, you control their income by TAXATION. THEN you control their MOBILITY by moderate to high fuel cost. THEN you push the envelope to the point that they have to choose between food, shelter, or gas. NOW you've got them where you want them. That's the sad truth, my young friend. As you grow older and wiser, and actually spend time in DC talking to our elected officials, you realize there is a plan in place for EVERY administration. This one has a very specific agenda, and YOU are SEEING it unfold.

Hopefully, by the time you are my age, we'll be back to a free market so that your effort will be rewarded, rather than taxed to the point where you have no incentive to get out of bed in the morning.

Otherwise, we'll be like our foreign counterparts and the most real property you will be able to afford will be your WRIST WATCH. Think I'm kidding? Spend some time in France or England. See why many of their citizens fled here to get away from hard left socialism.

In the mean time, I shall continue the fight, ON YOUR BEHALF, so that you can again live in a FREE America, as the founding fathers intended.

[MrJim]

The current increase is a short-lived speculative circle jerk, nothng more. We're swimming in oil. Unless we have a swift economic recovery (yeah right), the magic number is $2 a gallon, we should see it from the end of Summer forward.

Remember how we plunged from $4/gal last summer? Where will we plunge from $2.50? ;)

[ballzack]

The current increase is a short-lived speculative circle jerk, nothng more. We're swimming in oil. Unless we have a swift economic recovery (yeah right), the magic number is $2 a gallon, we should see it Memorial-Day forward.

I say $2.50 Jimbo, but we're arguing over nickles and dimes.

Just keep in mind that there is more at stake here than oil prices. If you control mobility, and force Americans to choose between Food, Shelter and/or GAS you've got the edge as a government.

I met with a few legislators that have HUGE holdings in oil companies. I tell you to expect $2.50 as a national average for a reason.

Time will tell.

[MrJim]

I say $2.50 Jimbo, but we're arguing over nickles and dimes.

Just keep in mind that there is more at stake here than oil prices. If you control mobility, and force Americans to choose between Food, Shelter and/or GAS you've got the edge as a government.

I met with a few legislators that have HUGE holdings in oil companies. I tell you to expect $2.50 as a national average for a reason.

Time will tell.

In the long run, $2.50 sounds like an equilibrium, but it's very hard to say right now. OPEC demands $70/oil. If the government folds and we break up by region (I expect this), count on Texas to join OPEC. Then we'll pay 20 cents a gallon in Texas while everyone else chokes on it.

[ballzack]

I'm either moving to Texas or Montana! ;)

[MrJim]

I'm either moving to Texas or Montana! ;)

Anarchist!! :D

Seriously, though, when a bag of dollars equals a bag of buttons, you gotta do what you gotta do. Best of luck!

[ballzack]

I do think we'll see states flexing sovereign muscle, Jimbo.

I do not think our financial system will collapse.

I do think Inflation will go RAMPANT. Just like when that numb-nuts Mr. Peanut Carter was in the Oval Office. You'll see your dollar worth 1/2 what it is worth today in 3 1/2 years.
Good news will be the current administration and MaoBama will be OUT on his liberal marxist fascist socialist black ass.

[Montanarchist]

Oil is PLENTIFUL, SELF-GENERATING (it's made by the Earth on-going NOT from Dinosaurs as some wack-job far left loonies would have you believe) and contrary to the liberal media, fairly cheap to produce. Also, the SYSTEM to DISTRIBUTE it is entrenched and working.

Oil consumption is growing exponentially and it doesn't seem to be generating in the rate required to meet the demand.
Do you have any source to support your claim?

[MrJim]

Isn't it ironic? This time last year, we were screaming about $4.00/gallon gas with wild predictions of $5-$6 a gallon in December. So the shit hits the fan, we get spoiled with $1.30 gas for a few months and now that we're in the low $2 range, we're worried again.

In a nutshell, it doesn't matter if we're dealing with gallons of gasoline or gallons of milk. Producers want as much as they can get for what they are producing and consumers have their limits on how much they are willing to pay.

Equilibrium, folks. At some point, the equilibrium will be about $50 oil and $2-2.50/gallon gas and it will remain at those levels for years.

[ballzack]

Oil as a RESOURCE is one thing. We can debate (and you can find proof either way on the internet) on where it comes from, and how it's "made" in the earth.

REFINEMENT is the real issue. Want more oil? You need more refinement. It's still not EASY to refine oil into gas.
But shit, if you have a spotted owl within 100 miles of the refinement sight, hold the presses! ;)

Another issue is the entrenchment of the distribution of oil. It's there. It works. You can't simply start plugging in cars in America. We're not able to withstand that amperage outlay in our electrical grid. And distribution is not valid. Nor is miles per kilowatt.

The simple truth is, Oil WORKS for now. We're debating the price. And my claim that after speaking with some of our legislators, the price will maintain itself around $2.50 through the remainder of the year.

[Carrot]

How much of the price/price changes is due to taxes, and how much is the oil companies trying to maximise profit? (genuinly asking here)

Also, refinement isn't the only issue, otherwise it would just be a matter of building more refineries, and it isn't. You need the oil first.

[Hammerhead]

How much of the price/price changes is due to taxes, and how much is the oil companies trying to maximise profit? (genuinly asking here)

Also, refinement isn't the only issue, otherwise it would just be a matter of building more refineries, and it isn't. You need the oil first.

the left wing assholes Carrot won't allow more refineries
and they are the same idiots why we are beholden to foreign
oil.
we have plenty here in the U.S.
but they won't allow companies to drill for it

[ballzack]

the left wing assholes Carrot won't allow more refineries
and they are the same idiots why we are beholden to foreign
oil.
we have plenty here in the U.S.
but they won't allow companies to drill for it

Hammer is right.
We've got plenty of oil. If you built ten new refineries a year for ten years, we'd be fine as well. But you can't. Not with the current greenie-weenie cry-babies screaming how bad everything is for the environment.

OH, sorry, Carrot.
It depends on the STATE on how much is TAXES. Now, Cap and Trade which will kick in in a year (I am guessing) will add 20 percent in tax to the cost per gallon FEDERALLY.
I guess the AVERAGE now nationally is about 80 cents per gallon tax. It's so wildly different, it's hard to nail down.

[Montanarchist]

how much is the oil companies trying to maximise profit? (genuinly asking here)

As much as they possibly can.

[Kaptain Nelag]

When I got my first job at a petroleum refinery, in 1980, the refineries were making about $0.01 per gallon. During the height of the boom, about a year ago this jumped to an astonishing $0.18 to $0.20 per gallon. If you do the math, i.e. about 30,000,000 bbls/day total output in the U.S. the numbers can get rather large. (One barrel = 42 gallons)

Increasing refining capacity is more feasible by revamping processing units in existing refineries than building new ones. The cost of building new grass root refineries are ridiculiously outrageous. There are also very restrictive environmental regulations. Getting permitting approved could take a decade or more for a new refinery.

[ballzack]

This is true, Kaptain.
Regulations are severe, as are the cost of start-up.
Yet we NEED them. But unfortunately, we won't get them anytime soon.

When I lived in France (I'm an American but I did extensive business in Europe for a while so I lived over there), the red tape to put up a Nuclear plant was non-existent. You want one? You got it! That was one NICE thing about their government. The hard left socialism was a bit hard to take, but there was NO red tape, and no spotted owl legislation!
;)

From another thread I posted:
Extreme left wing Libs want us to be sitting home fretting about keeping the home. They do NOT want us out demonstrating with Tea Parties nor do they wish us building wealth, because, IF we build wealth, we have the POWER to overthrow them. Money is power and PROTECTION. That is why they wish us NOT to have it.
It's the BASIS of Socialism, Marxism, and Fascism.

It is a crying shame that the America I was born into no longer exists. It will come back in part. But unfortunately, it's gone for now.

The WORSE the BETTER - Karl Marx.

The plan is, no WEALTH BUILDING and NO REAL PROPERTY GAIN. These are the ENEMIES of Socialism. $2.50 a gallon is a piece of that puzzle. High enough to keep you from having too much disposable income to invest. Low enough to allow you to get to work and back. In a Government Motors Car that gets 30 mpg but is basically a bubble on wheels....

[Carrot]

As much as they possibly can.

I meant the price fluctuations, I wasn't sure if the taxes were bing changed or something.

[ballzack]

It's a three-pronged issue, Carrot.
Taxes are not changing that rapidly. They WILL go up in a bit with the proposed Cap and Trade regulations. But that is not the crux of the issue here.

1. Speculation drove futures up so high so fast, markets reacted as did wholesale and retail. The price went up to $4.00 PLUS seemingly overnight.

2. Natural disasters whether EFFECTIVE at reducing the pipeline supply or NOT ramped up the price drastically. I was traveling in the south when the last hurricane hit, and OVERNIGHT the price jumped $1.00 a gallon.

3. Supply is being manipulated, as is price. It's a fact. Unfortunately. There are factors at work here. AMERICA RUNS ON WHEELS, not rails like many European countries. GAS is KING. Control Gas, you control mobility, you control EVERY SUPPLY ITEM AND EVERY ISSUE OF EVERY AMERICAN whether THEY drive a car or not. Milk and bread get to our stores via WHEELS. NOT rails. Milk and eggs and bread jumped as wildly as gas. ALSO - Our country is VAST. Many European countries can fit in ONE of our states. The price is being manipulated in-part for control purposes. Not too high, not too low. Just high enough to make huge profits while curtailing freedom to drive anywhere you damn well please, but just low enough to be able to afford to drive to work. Many Americans commute great distances to work. Some upwards of 150 miles EACH WAY per day. I know some of these people. You push gas back up to $4.50 and they are bankrupt in a week or two.

Seriously, I know a Texas rancher that can drive 8 hours just to get from one side of his ranch to the other. Now that's vast.

[Carrot]

But, as it is now, isn't it just the free market regulating prices, capitalism? Speculated decrease supply will drive it up, and a business will try ramp up the price if it's an essential good.

The government hasn't been getting involved yet, as far as I can tell (basically what you're telling me here). But will make it worse later on.

A similar thing happened with gas (not petrol), when the wholesale price went up, all the suppliers here increased their prices by the same % amount. Now the wholesale price has dropped, all the companies are only decreasing the price by fractions of the amount.

[Timper]

$2.50 to $3.00 a gallon...lucky bastards, its $3.54 around my area and steadily climbing. I also believe that my state has the highest gas tax in the nation, or did this past year.

[yee-haw]

$2.50 to $3.00 a gallon...lucky bastards, its $3.54 around my area and steadily climbing. I also believe that my state has the highest gas tax in the nation, or did this past year.

You're in ohio with me right?

[Timper]

You're in ohio with me right?

Washington actually, wish I was in Ohio though, my state has turned to shit in the past four years.

[yee-haw]

Washington actually, wish I was in Ohio though, my state has turned to shit in the past four years.

This state is no better really...

[Rise Up]

I haven't noticed Kentucky prices yet. My parent's aren't complaining so the prices aren't going up. Probably.

On a side note, I'm glad I don't drive.

[Hammerhead]

$2.50 to $3.00 a gallon...lucky bastards, its $3.54 around my area and steadily climbing. I also believe that my state has the highest gas tax in the nation, or did this past year.

New York, California and Pennsylvania are higher then Washington
in gas tax I believe

[Timper]

New York, California and Pennsylvania are higher then Washington
in gas tax I believe

They probably do, i guess it was in 2007 or something that Washington had the highest gas tax...I see other states are outdoing Washington now.:cool:

[Rise Up]

They probably do, i guess it was in 2007 or something that Washington had the highest gas tax...I see other states are outdoing Washington now.:cool:

Yeah, but Alaska is not likely to have a gas tax. They make a shitload of cash from that pipeline.