RE: torture

[hitekredneck]

found this in my email this am and thought it was good enough to share...

Canadian Letter to the Editor:

I wish someone would read this letter in Congress to all the
legislators that think water boarding is torture. This One Packs A Firm Punch. Thought you might like to read this letter to the editor ~ ever notice how some people just seem to know how to write a letter? This one sure does! This was written by a Canadian woman, but oh how it also applies to the U.S., U..K., and Australia. Written by a housewife in New Brunswick, to her local newspaper, this is one ticked off lady.

'Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was it or was it not started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September 11, 2001 and have continually threatened to do so since? Were people from all over the world, not brutally murdered that day, in downtown Manhattan , across the Potomac from the nation's capitol and in a field in Pennsylvania ? Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning or crushing death that day, or didn't they?

And I'm supposed to care that a few Taliban were claiming to be tortured by a justice system of the nation they come from and are fighting against in a brutal insurgency. I'll start caring when Osama bin Laden turns himself in and repents for incinerating all those innocent people on 9/11. I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East start caring about the Holy Bible, the mere belief of which is a crime punishable by beheading in Afghanistan .
I'll care when these thugs tell the world they are sorry for hacking off Nick Berg's head while Berg screamed through his gurgling slashed throat.

I'll care when the cowardly so-called 'insurgents' in Afghanistan come out and fight like men instead of disrespecting their own religion by hiding in mosques and behind women and children. I'll care when the mindless zealots who blows themselves up in search of nirvana care about the innocent children within range of their suicide bombs.
I'll care when the Canadian media stops pretending that their freedom of speech on stories is more important than the lives of the soldiers on the ground or their families waiting at home to hear about them when something happens.
In the meantime, when I hear a story about a CANADIAN soldier roughing up an Insurgent terrorist to obtain information, know this: I don't care.

When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the head when he is told not to move because he might be booby-trapped, you can take it to the bank: I don't care.

When I hear that a prisoner, who was issued a Koran and a prayer mat, and 'fed special' food that is paid for by my tax dollars, is complaining that his holy book is being 'mishandled,' you can absolutely believe in your heart of hearts: I don't care.
And oh, by the way, I've noticed that sometimes it's spelled 'Koran' > and other times 'Quran’. Well, Jimmy Crack Corn you guessed it: I don't care!!

If you agree with this viewpoint, pass this on to all your E-mail friends. Sooner or later, it'll get to the people responsible for this ridiculous behavior!
If you don't agree, then by all means hit the delete button. Should you choose the latter, then please don't complain when more atrocities committed by radical Muslims happen here in our great Country! And may I add: 'Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Soldiers don't have that problem.'

I have another quote that I would like to add, AND...I hope you forward all this. One last thought for the day:
Only five defining forces have ever offered to die for you:
1. Jesus Christ
2. The British Soldier.
3. The Canadian Soldier.
4. The US Soldier, and
5. The Australian Soldier

One died for your soul, the other 4 for your freedom.
point made?...i doubt it...at least not for those apologists that berate their own homes at every turn, but every little bit that might make one think helps :cool:

[Rise Up]

I'm sending that out. Soon as I get home, it's going on Myspace, Facebook, email, and other forums. That letter is just dead on.

[Prometheus]

http://www.allhatnocattle.net/5709singgg.jpg

[freakazoid]

promoIDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are a fucking mindless piece of rotting dog shit. We do what we have to do to get information out of islamic terrorist, you fucking shit-for-brains coward.

Fuck off and die, promoIDIOT. YEAH, DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I only wish it would have been YOUR KIDS who died in the Trade Towers burned to death while screaming in horror or maybe beheaded by an islamic terrorist for the cause in a video on YouTube; I wonder what they look like with out a head?

Maybe you would think better if YOUR wife had been shot in the back of the head in a public sports park in Afganisan by the taliban asshole after being beaten damn near to death for not wearing a burka you fucking sick ignorant moron.

Or maybe we should kick one of your kids to death in the street because one of their friends was not of the same sect of islam as you. After kicking them to damn near to death, I wish it would have been one of YOUR kids who was finished off by having their skull crushed with a brick while gasping in their last helpless breaths.

You disgust me you worthless piece of drunken cowardly puke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FUCK YOU!!

CAN WE PLEASE BAN THIS WORTHLESS MOTHER FUCKER OFF BS FOREVER?!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE GET RID OF THIS PILE OF SUB-HUMAN POND SCUM MAGGOT!!!!!!!!

HERE, promoIDIOT, here are your kids and wife...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_IQEWthqVjcg/SIlymp7p9jI/AAAAAAAAAEY/O4IOfFiy5v8/s400/2.bmp

http://chromatism.net/current/images/stoning.jpg

http://images30.fotki.com/v471/photos/3/34283/5522462/Islam_is_a_death_cult_poster-vi.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_KAxYCDgeIAE/SWj3kZ2pdbI/AAAAAAAAAEY/BpQha75EIGU/s400/christian-beheading.jpg

__________________
And I quote Prometheus...


Originally Posted by Prometheus
"You would love to get rid of me wouldnt you you fucking piece of shit..... do it you fucking pussy.I didnt break not even one single rule, you would love a reason to get rid of me , you dont have one but this probly wont stop you, and banning me wont stop me either. You cant keep me out you piece of shit, go ahead and try. BS is nothing but straight up garbage now anyway. You fucking panderer."

[Prometheus]

You are a fucking mindless piece of rotting dog shit. We do what we have to do to get information out of islamic terrorist, you fucking shit-for-brains coward.

Fuck off and die, promoIDIOT. YEAH, DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You disgust me you worthless piece of drunken cowardly puke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FUCK YOU!!

CAN WE PLEASE BAN THIS WORTHLESS MOTHER FUCKER OFF BS FOREVER?!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE GET RID OF THIS PILE OF SUB-HUMAN POND SCUM MAGGOT!!!!!!!!

HERE, promoIDIOT, here are your kids and wife...



All that talk about me being on your ignore list and your still reading my post eh !? Hate much !?:rolleyes: Love you too freak :p:D

So what will people like you say when the Taliban tortures to death this poor kid they just caught . "Its Justified" Huh. You cant say anything about them torturing him because we do it too. Smooth move eh ?

hope they don't think like you FreaKKK --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNN2z4KHDps

What ever happened to supporting the troops !?
Here is some more "Compasionate Conservatism" bordering on treason --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCxioonXPYA

[Baron Somebody]

DIE DAN DIE

Courtesy of Ace Ventura

[Prometheus]

Who does one have to waterboard to get some debate on BS.com tonight !? Damn !!:eek::(:o:rolleyes:

[hitekredneck]

Who does one have to waterboard to get some debate on BS.com tonight !? Damn !!

if you were capable of giving an intelligent debate, you wouldn't have a problem :cool:

[Rise Up]

You know, PromDIPSHIT, would be able to get a grasp on what the world were really like if what Freak said actually happened. Not that I'm advocating it or anything. But, if it had happened maybe he would able to see why we see torture as being necessary. Hell, they should take carpenter nails and shove them through the extremist's knees then attach them to a power grid to get information.

[Carrot]

So prom.

Where do we draw the line when trying to get information?

[Baron Somebody]

So pretty much what you are saying is that it is perfectly fine for some Islamic terrorists to fly a jet into a building, killing thousands of people for their "holy crusade", yet pouring water on a suspected terrorist to get info is wrong...goddamn :rolleyes:

[yee-haw]

So pretty much what you are saying is that it is perfectly fine for some Islamic terrorists to fly a jet into a building, killing thousands of people for their "holy crusade", yet pouring water on a suspected terrorist to get info is wrong...goddamn :rolleyes:

That's your second post this week that made a little bit of sense.

[Baron Somebody]

That's your second post this week that made a little bit of sense.

What the fuck? Thanks a bunch man...

[yee-haw]

What the fuck? Thanks a bunch man...

No problem mang, Anytime!;)

[Baron Somebody]

No problem mang, Anytime!;)

Lol damn I didn't know I was becoming the next Bullfighter...well I think just to humor you all I will talk like him for now on lol

[yee-haw]

Lol damn I didn't know I was becoming the next Bullfighter...well I think just to humor you all I will talk like him for now on lol

We could call you "bull somebody" then...

[Baron Somebody]

We could call you "bull somebody" then...

I hope I'm not really becoming crazy like him...well I mean I guess I could be considered crazy but you all can understand me, right?

[Carrot]

I hope I'm not really becoming crazy like him...well I mean I guess I could be considered crazy but you all can understand me, right?

I usually have eggs for breakfast, why do you ask?

[yee-haw]

I usually have eggs for breakfast, why do you ask?

I was wondering why he thought it was red?

[Baron Somebody]

I know because last night I was becoming fragile in a picnic basket on top of my own head in the dark eating sandwiches with a golden eyeball

[Carrot]

I know because last night I was becoming fragile in a picnic basket on top of my own head in the dark eating sandwiches with a golden eyeball

I know, he was never going to score from there anyway.

[Baron Somebody]

I know, he was never going to score from there anyway.

Hell ya, because as I took my blue memory foam van home last night I remembered to myself, "Hey, why did I leave those paper bags out on the curb for the monsters to get?"

[Rise Up]

All that talk about me being on your ignore list and your still reading my post eh !? Hate much !?:rolleyes: Love you too freak :p:D

So what will people like you say when the Taliban tortures to death this poor kid they just caught . "Its Justified" Huh. You cant say anything about them torturing him because we do it too. Smooth move eh ?

hope they don't think like you FreaKKK --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNN2z4KHDps

What ever happened to supporting the troops !?
Here is some more "Compasionate Conservatism" bordering on treason --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCxioonXPYA
Alright, fucking piece of shit alcoholic PromIDIOT, you listen here. Do WE torture anyone to death now? NO!! Do we allow them to practice their religion in our prisons? YES!! Do we allow them several good meals a day? YES!!! Do we chop heads off when we grow tired of torture? NO!!!! Do we treat them like animals? NO!!!!! Do we force them to convert to Christianity or Judiasm or die? NO!!!!!! SO SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!

Fuck you, you alcoholic piece of shit, you don't know jack shit about the world except that it doesn't favor you, and why should it? You're a godamn drunk, who's been in rehab before, probably still gets drunk, you do drugs, what have YOU done with your life besides get married and have kids? HMMM? You're fucking talk is similar to shitting on the grave of your parents, their parents, and the rest of the Americans who have died so that you can utter those words! You know what, fuck you. I'll say this as a threat. Don't let me come near you Prometheus, or it won't end well for you. Look at those images Freak posted. One of those is to be expected if I ever run into you, you worthless piece of shit.

[yee-haw]

What about timex?

[Baron Somebody]

What about timex?

I know what you mean man, playing handball with some gnomes of mine was quite fun to be honest

[LedZap]

So what will people like you say when the Taliban tortures to death this poor kid they just caught . "Its Justified" Huh. You cant say anything about them torturing him because we do it too. Smooth move eh ?



Spoken like the real left wing liberal democrat that you are.

[Baron Somebody]

Prometheus, the difference is that we pour water on their face to get info and the Taliban do god knows what to our soldiers just so they can live out their ridiculous "holy crusade" which in all actuallity crock of shit...hey I don't like it either but they are two completely different things, what we do isn't even on the same level, I mean we don't just take someone and then decapitate them now do we?

[Paisleyspeaker]

We signed many treaties about torture. We made sure that Japanese soldiers who water-boarded Americans during WWII were tried and convicted for their acts of torture. I believe that for us to say now that we want information it is okay to do these things is wrong, it is hypocracy, it takes away any honor or dignity we as a nation lay claim to.

If we are going to destroy this nation in the name of defending it, what are we defending. Often the bill of rights and our freedoms are spoken of as the most important part of what America is. Yet you would take away freedom of speech (to question the government is treason) What if you were told you could no longer own guns because they might fall into the hands of the terrorists??? If we are to defend our nation we must also defend the less tangible parts of it as well as it's physical territories. That means a defense of our ideals. Keeping our word and not committing these acts is part of that ideal.

And Rise , if you did your research you would know there are people who died in our custody, being put into "stress positions". The CIA destroyed the tapes , so I can't say if they died as a direct result of a specific act. Remember what we do in pubic and what we had done in other nations through renditions are two very different things. The folks in gitmo who were whining there books were being mistreated were just being whiny babies- they had it good compared to those we kept out of sight.

And remember there was not one piece of viable information gathered. So we traded our honor and honesty for what?? The great thinkers of the enlightenment, upon whose work we based our great documents, knew torture didn't work- a man in that much pain will tell you whatever you want to make it stop.

(hows that for intelligent debate?:D And I did it without insulting, swearing or threatening anyone's children:mad: [and I am not referring to my husbands behavior:rolleyes:]:eek: )

[LedZap]

if you did your research you would know there are people who died in our custody, being put into "stress positions". The CIA destroyed the tapes , so I can't say if they died as a direct result of a specific act


If the CIA 'destroyed the tapes" then what makes you think people died in our custody, being put into "stress positions"? Speculation ?



And remember there was not one piece of viable information gathered.

Oh really ? How do you know ?

[freakazoid]

We signed many treaties about torture. We made sure that Japanese soldiers who water-boarded Americans during WWII were tried and convicted for their acts of torture. I believe that for us to say now that we want information it is okay to do these things is wrong, it is hypocracy, it takes away any honor or dignity we as a nation lay claim to.

If we are going to destroy this nation in the name of defending it, what are we defending. Often the bill of rights and our freedoms are spoken of as the most important part of what America is. Yet you would take away freedom of speech (to question the government is treason) What if you were told you could no longer own guns because they might fall into the hands of the terrorists??? If we are to defend our nation we must also defend the less tangible parts of it as well as it's physical territories. That means a defense of our ideals. Keeping our word and not committing these acts is part of that ideal.

And Rise , if you did your research you would know there are people who died in our custody, being put into "stress positions". The CIA destroyed the tapes , so I can't say if they died as a direct result of a specific act. Remember what we do in pubic and what we had done in other nations through renditions are two very different things. The folks in gitmo who were whining there books were being mistreated were just being whiny babies- they had it good compared to those we kept out of sight.

And remember there was not one piece of viable information gathered. So we traded our honor and honesty for what?? The great thinkers of the enlightenment, upon whose work we based our great documents, knew torture didn't work- a man in that much pain will tell you whatever you want to make it stop.

(hows that for intelligent debate?:D And I did it without insulting, swearing or threatening anyone's children:mad: [and I am not referring to my husbands behavior:rolleyes:]:eek: )

RE: "We signed many treaties about torture. We made sure that Japanese soldiers who water-boarded Americans during WWII were tried and convicted for their acts of torture."

We prosecuted war criminals (the Japanese) for beginning a war for no reason at all, and for the murder of countless hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians and soldiers. They used force (water boarding) for totally illegite reasons...i.e., to continue their crimminal attck on humanity, freedom and countries that had NOT attacked them (try reading the history of Japan's abuse of the Chinese people, it is horrific!). Their use of water boarding was an illegal use of force for evil reasons, for torture just for torture's sake.

The United States gives every detainee the choice; answer questions put to you directly and truthfully or we will use what minimal force is needed to obtain intellence to, and THIS IS THE DIFFERENCE...save lives, NOT kill as many as possible with such information as the Japanese were doing. THAT is a BIG difference.

It never ceases to amaze me, PS, that liberals like you NEVER have anything to say that is positive and good about the county that provides enormous amount of liberty, opportunity and freedom to you. You constantly spit on the nation that gives so much to protect your liberty.

If we in the United States are so bad, PLEASE!!!! ...go live elsewhere! Please get out and go live in a country you will respect. The United States has IN FACT given more blood, help, compassion, wealth, aid and it's lives to help the cause of freedom and the progress of humanity than ANY OTHER NATION in history. If it were not for America, there would be no freedom in this world. NONE!!!!!!!!!!

In short; FUCK YOU if you don't like how we do it. I suggest that you move to north korea and take your worthless drunk America hating loser of a husband with you. But I caution you, PS; north korea, as does most ALL commie marxist counties, imprisons lesbians and homosexuals; so maybe you might be careful when you move to your favorite "workers paradise." You may find yourself dead or slaving away in a north korean gulag. Lesbians are NOT welcome.

[MrJim]

And Rise , if you did your research you would know there are people who died in our custody, being put into "stress positions". The CIA destroyed the tapes , so I can't say if they died as a direct result of a specific act. Remember what we do in public and what we had done in other nations through renditions are two very different things. The folks in gitmo who were whining there books were being mistreated were just being whiny babies- they had it good compared to those we kept out of sight.

The four standard purposes of criminal prosecution in America:
* Retribution
* Deterence
* Incapacitation
* Rehabilation

Now this is the system in place for prisoners who are mainly white-collar criminals or those who are mentally ill and tend to loose their shit and hurt people. Killers normally get only the first three.

Now what do you do when you're dealing with religiously motivated people conspiring with terrorist organizations to commit genocide against all westerners? Forget deterence and rehabilition altogether - there is nothing our criminal system can do to "fix" anyone who thinks their god advocates mass murder.

Incapacitation is an option that Obama pulled from the table. So what's left? Retribution - 'a punishment that fits the crime'. What punishment fits sponsoring terrorism? Especially when it is religiously motivated? What does someone deserve as a punishment who would, if the opportunity arose, turn commercial airplanes into missles and kill thousands of people in New York, bomb trains in Madrid, bomb subways in England, toss grenades into marketplaces in Iraq, behead American contractors and record the events for television ... and this is the shortened list of PAST events... with NO mercy, NO shame, and a feeling of accomplishment at the feet of their god?

I don't have an answer. Nor do I have the confidential information that led to the capture and imprisonment of these captives. What I'm sure of is that anyone belonging to these organizations wants me, my family, you, your family and everyone else we know tortured and killed. I don't think there is a punishment that exists that is worse than that. Perverted soldiers torturing and teasing them... that was an embarrassment for this country, but doesn't hold a stick at the atrocities al-Qaeda and other groups are willing to commit.

Democracy is intended to protect the rights of people when rational circumstances justifies it. Even giving a trial (at the expense of taxpayers) to any of those animals is rediculous. We are at war with the most evil pieces of humanity on this earth, and we're the bad guys? Come on. You can sleep with a gun while living in fear or count on our military for your protection. Soldiers who engage in war crimes will be punished like the rest of us. The other soldiers are keeping our country safe.

And your husband needs some pills. I suggest valium, it's cheaper than drinking and is effective in stopping alcoholism.

[MrJim]

Fuck you, you alcoholic piece of shit, you don't know jack shit about the world except that it doesn't favor you, and why should it? You're a godamn drunk, who's been in rehab before, probably still gets drunk, you do drugs, what have YOU done with your life besides get married and have kids? HMMM? You're fucking talk is similar to shitting on the grave of your parents, their parents, and the rest of the Americans who have died so that you can utter those words! You know what, fuck you. I'll say this as a threat. Don't let me come near you Prometheus, or it won't end well for you. Look at those images Freak posted. One of those is to be expected if I ever run into you, you worthless piece of shit.

You may be right (and I actually get a chuckle out of most of that), but you're just poking a stick at a pit bull to see if he'll bite. Be the bigger man and let Promo look like the village idiot.

[General Septem]

There's a difference between a terrorist and an enemy soldier. A soldier is simply following his orders and fighting for his country. A terrorist, on the other hand, is a true believer in using hatred to promote his twisted ideals. You can't apply the same rules to both situations.

The terrorist tortures for pleasure; we torture the terrorists for information. The terrorist tortures anyone they please; we only torture terrorists. There's a big difference there because the only people we torture are the same people torturing innocent women and children back in the sandbox - in fact, we're doing it to ultimately PREVENT future torture.

If you think this amounts to our lowering ourselves to their level, then I and every other human being should be offended by that. If the government's torturing some sheep fucking animal prevents MY torture by said sheep fucking animal at some later date, then justice has been served. To say that sheep fucking animal's torture was just as bad as my theoretical torture would have been is idealistic, ignorant, and frankly insulting. The terrorist has it coming to them for killing and torturing innocents and knowingly conspiring to do the same; I have it coming for not being a Muslim. There is a big difference there.

[General Septem]

..well i mean i guess i could be considered crazy..............,,but you all can understand me,,,,,,,,,,right

This is more like it. Note the relocation of the first line to the subject line, so that when we read it at first we have no idea what the hell you are talking about. It's the little details that matter.

[MrJim]

I don't see us ever lowering ourselves to their level. How many countries have we gone to armed with bombs to kill oblivious men, women, and children since 9/11? Zippo. Iran and North Korea are building bombs and we have every right to protect ourselves against them and all other countries sponsoring terrorism.

I don't think the CIA isn't just picking and choosing random Arabs, so I don't believe there were innocent people held, tortured or otherwise. If one went to prison right here in the US, they might be beaten and raped by some asshole too. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. And ESPECIALLY don't fuck with a country that can nuke the world 5 times.

[Rise Up]

We signed many treaties about torture. We made sure that Japanese soldiers who water-boarded Americans during WWII were tried and convicted for their acts of torture. I believe that for us to say now that we want information it is okay to do these things is wrong, it is hypocracy, it takes away any honor or dignity we as a nation lay claim to.

We were legally at war. The Geneva Convention applied only to legitimate warfare. So, torturing POWs was not permitted, yet they still did it. But, now, we have people who are just screaming Allah Akbar before blowing up. That is NOT legitimate warfare and as such, they are not considered POWs. If we so wish we can torture them to death. But we don't.



If we are going to destroy this nation in the name of defending it, what are we defending. Often the bill of rights and our freedoms are spoken of as the most important part of what America is. Yet you would take away freedom of speech (to question the government is treason) What if you were told you could no longer own guns because they might fall into the hands of the terrorists??? If we are to defend our nation we must also defend the less tangible parts of it as well as it's physical territories. That means a defense of our ideals. Keeping our word and not committing these acts is part of that ideal.

I'd go get a gun illegaly and live my life normally. :rolleyes:



And Rise , if you did your research you would know there are people who died in our custody, being put into "stress positions". The CIA destroyed the tapes , so I can't say if they died as a direct result of a specific act. Remember what we do in pubic and what we had done in other nations through renditions are two very different things. The folks in gitmo who were whining there books were being mistreated were just being whiny babies- they had it good compared to those we kept out of sight.

How do you know this? Are you sure that they did not just kill themselves? They could easily kill themselves with a blanket. So.....unless you have absolute proof that they died as a direct result of torture you can just wipe that from your brain.



And remember there was not one piece of viable information gathered. So we traded our honor and honesty for what?? The great thinkers of the enlightenment, upon whose work we based our great documents, knew torture didn't work- a man in that much pain will tell you whatever you want to make it stop.

Erm.....how can you be sure that not one piece of viable information was gathered? OH!!! You were the one doing to torturing? You were the one gathering information? I never knew!!! *sarcasm*



(hows that for intelligent debate? And I did it without insulting, swearing or threatening anyone's children [and I am not referring to my husbands behavior

Paisley, your children were NOT threatened, Freak was just saying, what if your family had been in that position would you both feel the same. Your husband has done worse than any of us could ever do. Keep in mind HE is the one to provoke our anger, shit, I have a long ass fuse, but when it hits the dynamite, it's on. I've had my moments of anger. And it was all brought about by your husband.

[Rise Up]

You may be right (and I actually get a chuckle out of most of that), but you're just poking a stick at a pit bull to see if he'll bite. Be the bigger man and let Promo look like the village idiot.

Sorry as I stated in my above post, I have a long ass fucking fuse and when it hits the explosive.......:o

[freakazoid]

You may be right (and I actually get a chuckle out of most of that), but you're just poking a stick at a pit bull to see if he'll bite. Be the bigger man and let Promo look like the village idiot.

Hey! I like that! ...

promoVILLAGEIDIOT, perfect name for him! For now on, its promoVILLAGEIDIOT :Dhttp://forum.bullshit.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

[freakazoid]

It would appear that my invitation extended to promoVILLAGEIDIOT to...

DIE!!!!!

...has been removed. So I will re-state it thus...
http://www.furnish.se/images/images_big/ak_72.jpg
...
http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/5600000/Oli-Sykes-Drop-Dead-drop-dead-5674456-426-640.jpg
...
http://www.lunpechar.com/images/fuck-off.jpg
... It is my fondest hope I didn't offend anyone. I wouldn't ever want to do that. Hell, you know the Freak, I never try to be offensive.

[WhiteRaven]

Freakazoid, Rise-up, Prometheus. QUIT BICKERING LIKE 13 YEAR OLD TWIN SISTERS ALL ON THEIR PERIODS WHOSE BOYFRIENDS CAN'T TELL THEM APART!

[Rise Up]

Freakazoid, Rise-up, Prometheus. QUIT BICKERING LIKE 13 YEAR OLD TWIN SISTERS ALL ON THEIR PERIODS WHOSE BOYFRIENDS CAN'T TELL THEM APART!

Dude, I don't have a problem debating, but, everyone has a point where they just blow up. When I posted? That was one of those points.

[Paisleyspeaker]

The Geneva convention treaties state:

"Captured combatants and civilians who find themselves under the authority of the adverse party are entitled to respect for their life, their dignity, their personal rights and their political, religious and other convictions. They must be protected against all acts of violence or reprisal. They are entitled to exchange news with their families and receive aid.

Everyone must enjoy basic judicial guarantees and no one may be held responsible for an act he has not committed. No one may be subjected to physical or mental torture or to cruel or degrading corporal punishment or other treatment."

more here (http://www.redcross.lv/en/conventions.htm)

So it not just soldiers who are covered but all civilians as well. And when we declared war on terror did we not make the terrorists enemy soldiers? And if they are part of a cell or organization with a hierarchy could they not be following orders?

Terrorists do not really torture for "pleasure" but for ideology. And in a way so do we. Ideology drives our actions in the middle east. Actions that millions have died from. Whether it was a corporate or democratic ideology, it was in defense of ideas we entered into their world. And it is that entry and behavior in their nations that they say is the reason for their actions. (Bin Laden wants us out of Saudi Arabia- has ever since the first Gulf war)

I feel it is important to keep in mind why they committed the atrocities they did. When a building falls on it's own we don't just shrug our shoulders, we investigate the reasons why in order to prevent such a thing from happening again. I think the same logic should apply here too.

I am not apologising for their actions, they are murderers and should be punished. I just don't believe we should destroy our values to do so. We have a system for dealing with murderers that has functioned well for us for hundreds of years. And yes I think there should be trials and investigations. If for no other reason then to find all who have supported, funded and acted as accomplises. Those investigations will bring us to our Saudi "friends". Those of you who have been around for a while know I advocate a much firmer hand with Saudi Arabia, whose hands are bloody, and who practice the worst forms of Islam, Wahabism.

Jim, while we never intended to kill innocents with our bombs, we do - by the tens of thousands. And the reasons for our even being in Iraq are at best questionable. Yes Saddam was an asshole, but we stood by his side as he gassed the Kurds, and committed many other atrocities. We stood by him when it was convienent and turned on im when it was convienent too. I know if I remember the newspaper stories you are old enough to as well.

[Rise Up]

You know what? I'm done with this bullshit. The fucking site is getting more liberal and more Marxist with everyday. I'm finished.

[yee-haw]

You know what? I'm done with this bullshit. The fucking site is getting more liberal and more Marxist with everyday. I'm finished.

Shut the fuck up Whining, Say what you want and debate who you like...
You sound like fucking ballzack now.:rolleyes:

[Hammerhead]

Shut the fuck up Whining, Say what you want and debate who you like...
You sound like fucking ballzack now.:rolleyes:

LMAO, maybe it is

[yee-haw]

LMAO, maybe it is

Gonna start calling him JR.

[Hammerhead]

Gonna start calling him JR.

Ha, or little balls

[yee-haw]

Ha, or little balls

Lil' sack JR?

[Paisleyspeaker]

You know what? I'm done with this bullshit. The fucking site is getting more liberal and more Marxist with everyday. I'm finished.

I love it, this coming from the "free speech" advocate. What we're all entitiled to say whatever we want just as long as we agree with you??

Junior, you must defend the speech you hate to be able to protect the speech you support.

And again know what you are talking about, when in this thread did I mention Economy, classes, or production?? Have you ever even looked at the works of Marx??

[yee-haw]

Junior, you must defend the speech you hate to be able to protect the speech you support.


Amen!!... Truth if ever told.

[Baron Somebody]

Lil' sack JR?

LOL man good one...then again my new name is "BullSomebody" so I can't say much

[Prometheus]

With only 2 prominate non-conservative that post even semi-regularly, I fail to see how this board has "Gone Marxist". This is one of the most conservative heavy boards I have ever seen that didn't say conservative or something simular in the name. Imagine how he would feel in my shoes on this forum out numbered 15 to 1 politicly........ quiter......:rolleyes::p;):D

[Rise Up]

With only 2 prominate non-conservative that post even semi-regularly, I fail to see how this board has "Gone Marxist". This is one of the most conservative heavy boards I have ever seen that didn't say conservative or something simular in the name. Imagine how he would feel in my shoes on this forum out numbered 15 to 1 politicly........ quiter......:rolleyes::p;):D

Alcoholic Marcxist. Go crawl back into your bottle.

[Prometheus]

Alcoholic Marcxist. Go crawl back into your bottle.

Its a good thing your good at name calling because intellectually you got the short end of the stick. Avoiding thought and replacing it with continual name calling will make you a model conservative, you will fit right in !! :D:D

[Rise Up]

Its a good thing your good at name calling because intellectually you got the short end of the stick. Avoiding thought and replacing it with continual name calling will make you a model conservative, you will fit right in !! :D:D

Actually, that's the last name calling from me you will ever see. I'll be going for the more mature road, unlike you. I thought you were the father, not the child?

[Prometheus]

Actually, that's the last name calling from me you will ever see. I'll be going for the more mature road, unlike you. I thought you were the father, not the child?

Fat chance, you would have to either evolve or educated yourself, which I doubt you will do either. All you know how to do is label and name call just like your butt buddy freaKKK.:rolleyes:

[Rise Up]

Fat chance, you would have to either evolve or educated yourself, which I doubt you will do either. All you know how to do is label and name call just like your butt buddy freaKKK.:rolleyes:

I'm sorry but I believe I should go work on my IB History summer work. I still have 3 of 5 assignments for the book, The Strange Career of Jim Crow. You'd be surprised to know that SEGREGATION BEGAN IN THE NORTH. Southerners treated blacks better than the North did before the Civil War. They had more liberties. Hell slavery was on the decline. The North demanded it end right away and....you know the rest of the story I'd guess.

Them I might work on my English summer work. How to Read Literature Like a Professor. I have to write TWO, count them, TWO essays on two different short stories, then I have to write a summary of a chapter of my choosing from the book. Yeah, I'm not educating myself. :rolleyes:

[Prometheus]

I'm sorry but I believe I should go work on my IB History summer work. I still have 3 of 5 assignments for the book, The Strange Career of Jim Crow. You'd be surprised to know that SEGREGATION BEGAN IN THE NORTH. Southerners treated blacks better than the North did before the Civil War. They had more liberties. Hell slavery was on the decline. The North demanded it end right away and....you know the rest of the story I'd guess.

Them I might work on my English summer work. How to Read Literature Like a Professor. I have to write TWO, count them, TWO essays on two different short stories, then I have to write a summary of a chapter of my choosing from the book. Yeah, I'm not educating myself. :rolleyes:

That's a textbook "conservative education", and by what you have posted here, you will clearly never have the capacity to EDUCATE YOURSELF, I could write what ever I wanted to in a "textbook" and people like you will take it as gospel. There are some states that are taking evolution out of the books and putting "Intelligent Design" in and people like you will never bother to question it. You don't know what "EDUCATING YOURSELF" is. You said history is one of your strong points which is funny because you don't seem to know shit about it.

[Rise Up]

That's a textbook "conservative education", and by what you have posted here, you will clearly never have the capacity to EDUCATE YOURSELF, I could write what ever I wanted to in a "textbook" and people like you will take it as gospel. There are some states that are taking evolution out of the books and putting "Intelligent Design" in and people like you will never bother to question it. You don't know what "EDUCATING YOURSELF" is. You said history is one of your strong points which is funny because you don't seem to know shit about it.

The Strange Career of Jim Crow? Hell that's smaller than the first Harry Potter book. Yup definitely a textbook. :rolleyes:

Well in your mind, history is only anything that will make a democratic country look bad. Alright, here are my specialties. Military History, Middle Ages, and the Crusades. The Middle Ages alone is longer than American History so I'm sure I know more than you. The Crusades were on and off even before the Middle Ages so they are a separate topic. And Military History starts from the moment a human picked up a rock and cracked open another humans skull with it.

[Prometheus]

so I'm sure I know more than you.

This statement alone proves that you know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ! :eek::rolleyes::cool:

[Rise Up]

This statement alone proves that you know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ! :eek::rolleyes::cool:

Alright, what battle proved that a small force of English bowmen, peasants at that, could defeat mounted knights in the Middle Ages?

What was the most powerful platform for launching spears until the Roman Legions began use of the ballista?

During the Middle Ages what was the usual location of cavalry in a battle formation?

During which Crusade was Jerusalem lost to the Muslims?

What is the name of the blade used by the ninja in ages past?

How is the cooling of a Japanese katana different from the cooling of a Western longsword?

Why is a bastard sword not a claymore while also not a longsword?

What is the traditional Japanese blade that Japanese women use when commiting ritual suicide?

What is the origin of the term Kamikaze?

[MrJim]

The Geneva convention treaties state:

"Captured combatants and civilians who find themselves under the authority of the adverse party are entitled to respect for their life, their dignity, their personal rights and their political, religious and other convictions. They must be protected against all acts of violence or reprisal. They are entitled to exchange news with their families and receive aid.

Everyone must enjoy basic judicial guarantees and no one may be held responsible for an act he has not committed. No one may be subjected to physical or mental torture or to cruel or degrading corporal punishment or other treatment."

more here (http://www.redcross.lv/en/conventions.htm)

So it not just soldiers who are covered but all civilians as well. And when we declared war on terror did we not make the terrorists enemy soldiers? And if they are part of a cell or organization with a hierarchy could they not be following orders?

Terrorists do not really torture for "pleasure" but for ideology. And in a way so do we. Ideology drives our actions in the middle east. Actions that millions have died from. Whether it was a corporate or democratic ideology, it was in defense of ideas we entered into their world. And it is that entry and behavior in their nations that they say is the reason for their actions. (Bin Laden wants us out of Saudi Arabia- has ever since the first Gulf war)

I feel it is important to keep in mind why they committed the atrocities they did. When a building falls on it's own we don't just shrug our shoulders, we investigate the reasons why in order to prevent such a thing from happening again. I think the same logic should apply here too.

I am not apologising for their actions, they are murderers and should be punished. I just don't believe we should destroy our values to do so. We have a system for dealing with murderers that has functioned well for us for hundreds of years. And yes I think there should be trials and investigations. If for no other reason then to find all who have supported, funded and acted as accomplises. Those investigations will bring us to our Saudi "friends". Those of you who have been around for a while know I advocate a much firmer hand with Saudi Arabia, whose hands are bloody, and who practice the worst forms of Islam, Wahabism.

Jim, while we never intended to kill innocents with our bombs, we do - by the tens of thousands. And the reasons for our even being in Iraq are at best questionable. Yes Saddam was an asshole, but we stood by his side as he gassed the Kurds, and committed many other atrocities. We stood by him when it was convienent and turned on im when it was convienent too. I know if I remember the newspaper stories you are old enough to as well.

The thing is, you're taking a logical approach to an illogical problem. There was absolutely NO justification for the atrocities committed by those terrorist organizations. Do you really think that we could negotiate with them? Look at Ahmedenijad, Chavez, Kim Jong and the others. Give them an inch, and they want a mile. Rather, give them some space and they'll build bigger bombs.

We did NOT make the terrorists enemy soldiers any more than we have a vicious pit bull that kills a child put to sleep. If you truly understood the motives behind their violent actions, you would see what they want. They claim it's our support for Israel. They are liars. They want the world to be radically transformed into Islam by any and all means necessary. If you aren't Islamic, you deserve to die according to them. Is there any question of it, seeing as they bound their own people to Islamic law under penalty of death?

"Terrorists do not really torture for "pleasure" but for ideology. And in a way so do we." Tell me how our ideology promotes torture. America allows freedom of religion, which means there is no absolute definition of our ideology. Replace "pleasure" with retribution and forget the ideology concept and you've got us pegged. There is no documentation that I know of that could or could not link a soldier torturing the enemy to a tragic loss at the hands of the terrorists. If someone killed any of my loved ones, I would feel like torturing and killing the MF'ers too, and I doubt I would have trouble gaining support. Call it cruel, call it whatever, thousands died in the twin towers, and I have no doubt that the families of those who were killed mercilessly by radical religious terrorists would LOVE to get vengeance. Also remember that the soldiers involved were punished for war crimes. They were not off the hook for their actions. You cannot, however, compare their crimes to people who killed INNOCENT civilians in mass unless you believe that al-Qaida was justified in all of their crimes against humanity. I doubt that you truly feel such a justification.

Now then, about our accidental killing of civilians... you are right that we NEVER INTENDED to do so. In fact, if it were me and my careless mistake killed those civilians I would deeply regret it to the point of a total psychological breakdown. But the reality is, mistakes are often made, be it a soldier, a cop, or a homeowner who accidentally kills a friend thinking it's an intruder. It's horrible and unfortunate, but the difference between our soldiers and al-Qaida is that, as you said, we "NEVER INTENDED" to do so. Osama bin-Laden and his supporters have the INTENTION of killing anyone who stands in the way of his radical plans for an Islamic world. Would they kill you or me? Your children? Mine? No shit they would. Wrong place, wrong time and they would kill you. No remorse, no shame. One less infidel as far as they are concerned.

You can't negotiate with terrorists that are religiously motivated, period. We can accept our ancestral bashings for radical Christianity during the Dark Ages, but the threat of global genocide by radical Muslim extermists is the HERE AND NOW. We are all threatened by it, and would do well to stand by those who are trying to stop it.

[Prometheus]

Alright, what battle proved that a small force of English bowmen, peasants at that, could defeat mounted knights in the Middle Ages?

What was the most powerful platform for launching spears until the Roman Legions began use of the ballista?

During the Middle Ages what was the usual location of cavalry in a battle formation?

During which Crusade was Jerusalem lost to the Muslims?

What is the name of the blade used by the ninja in ages past?

How is the cooling of a Japanese katana different from the cooling of a Western longsword?

Why is a bastard sword not a claymore while also not a longsword?

What is the traditional Japanese blade that Japanese women use when commiting ritual suicide?

What is the origin of the term Kamikaze?

This is some petty trivia, you don't even know what "knowledge" is do you ? What do you think I'm fucking stupid !? These are child's play, which coming from a child isn't surprising........... you think "knowledge" and being smart is knowing a bunch of 8th grade trivia. Your funny.

[Prometheus]

The thing is, you're taking a logical approach to an illogical problem. There was absolutely NO justification for the atrocities committed by those terrorist organizations. Do you really think that we could negotiate with them? Look at Ahmedenijad, Chavez, Kim Jong and the others. Give them an inch, and they want a mile. Rather, give them some space and they'll build bigger bombs.

We did NOT make the terrorists enemy soldiers any more than we have a vicious pit bull that kills a child put to sleep. If you truly understood the motives behind their violent actions, you would see what they want. They claim it's our support for Israel. They are liars. They want the world to be radically transformed into Islam by any and all means necessary. If you aren't Islamic, you deserve to die according to them. Is there any question of it, seeing as they bound their own people to Islamic law under penalty of death?

"Terrorists do not really torture for "pleasure" but for ideology. And in a way so do we." Tell me how our ideology promotes torture. America allows freedom of religion, which means there is no absolute definition of our ideology. Replace "pleasure" with retribution and forget the ideology concept and you've got us pegged. There is no documentation that I know of that could or could not link a soldier torturing the enemy to a tragic loss at the hands of the terrorists. If someone killed any of my love ones, I would feel like torturing and killing the MF'ers too, and I doubt I would have trouble gaining support. Call it cruel, call it whatever, thousands died in the twin towers, and I have no doubt that the families of those who were killed mercilessly by radical religious terrorists would LOVE to get vengeance. Also remember that the soldiers involved were punished for war crimes. They were not off the hook for their actions. You cannot, however, compare their crime to people who killed INNOCENT civilians in mass unless you believe that al-Qaida was justified in all of their crimes against humanity. I doubt that you truly feel such a justification.

Now then, about our accidental killing of civilians... you are right that we NEVER INTENDED to do so. In fact, if it were me and my careless mistake killed those civilians I would deeply regret it to the point of a total psychological breakdown. But the reality is, mistakes are often made, be it a soldier, a cop, or a homeowner who accidentally kills a friend thinking it's an intruder. It's horrible and unfortunate, but the difference between our soldiers and al-Qaida is that, as you said, we "NEVER INTENDED" to do so. Osama bin-Laden and his supporters have the INTENTION of killing anyone who stands in the way of his radical plans for an Islamic world. Would they kill you or me? Your children? Mine? No shit he would. Wrong place, wrong time and they would kill you. No remorse, no shame. One less infidel as far as they are concerned.

You can't negotiate with terrorists that are religiously motivated, period. We can accept our ancestral bashings for radical Christianity during the Dark Ages, but the threat of global genocide by radical Muslim extermists is the HERE AND NOW. We are all threatened by it, and would do well to stand by those who are trying to stop it.

What does Chavez have to do with any of that!? You're talking about economic difference and not following the "Washington consenses" Makes you a "terrorist" now, you have got to be kidding me !!!

[Rise Up]

Now then, about our accidental killing of civilians... you are right that we NEVER INTENDED to do so. In fact, if it were me and my careless mistake killed those civilians I would deeply regret it to the point of a total psychological breakdown. But the reality is, mistakes are often made, be it a soldier, a cop, or a homeowner who accidentally kills a friend thinking it's an intruder. It's horrible and unfortunate, but the difference between our soldiers and al-Qaida is that, as you said, we "NEVER INTENDED" to do so. Osama bin-Laden and his supporters have the INTENTION of killing anyone who stands in the way of his radical plans for an Islamic world. Would they kill you or me? Your children? Mine? No shit he would. Wrong place, wrong time and they would kill you. No remorse, no shame. One less infidel as far as they are concerned.

We might have the most accurate bombs in the world but technology can only go so far. Civilians can die if so much as the wind changes when a bomb drops if the bomb is not dropped right. Hell, during WW2 bombs dropped by B17s have actually exploded MILES outside of the target.

[Rise Up]

This is some petty trivia, you don't even know what "knowledge" is do you ? What do you think I'm fucking stupid !? These are child's play, which coming from a child isn't surprising........... you think "knowledge" and being smart is knowing a bunch of 8th grade trivia. Your funny.

Yeah, a child would definitely know all of that. Want me to answer it? Oh wait, me showing how smart I am about something would be 'immoral' me being a conservative capitalist after all. :rolleyes:

[MrJim]

What does Chavez have to do with any of that!? You're talking about economic difference and not following the "Washington consenses" Makes you a "terrorist" now, you have got to be kidding me !!!

Chavez gives Ahmedenijad hand-in-hand support for Anti-American policy, including Ahmedenijad's nuclear agenda. I guess you're one of the sheep that believes that agenda is 'purely for electricity'. Yeah, right. Go drink another beer and keep ranting on about my being a terrorist. You're getting nothing but laughs out of me, buddy. Your head is so deep in the sand that a backhoe couldn't pull it out.

[Prometheus]

Yeah, a child would definitely know all of that. Want me to answer it? Oh wait, me showing how smart I am about something would be 'immoral' me being a conservative capitalist after all. :rolleyes:

You're such a waste of time, Never before in the world has there been a 15 year old that know everything before you. WOW !!! Your amazing !!! Save us rise, quick while you still know everything except for relevant history.

You're a fucking joke dude. A bad one at that.

[Rise Up]

You're such a waste of time, Never before in the world has there been a 15 year old that know everything before you. WOW !!! Your amazing !!! Save us rise, quick while you still know everything except for relevant history.

You're a fucking joke dude. A bad one at that.

YOUR idea of relevant history is anything bad for capitalists. MY idea of relevant history is any history at all because if we lose that, we lose the very things that we were in the past and forget our past mistakes.

[Prometheus]

Chavez gives Ahmedenijad hand-in-hand support for Anti-American policy, including Ahmedenijad's nuclear agenda. I guess you're one of the sheep that believes that agenda is 'purely for electricity'. Yeah, right. Go drink another beer and keep ranting on about my being a terrorist. You're getting nothing but laughs out of me, buddy. Your head is so deep in the sand that a backhoe couldn't pull it out.

Anti American huh, ---> http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1870219,00.html

more like you're anti truth...... your a regular propaganda mill aren't you !? There are enough people spreading hate and fear without you helping.

[MrJim]

You're such a waste of time, Never before in the world has there been a 15 year old that know everything before you. WOW !!! Your amazing !!! Save us rise, quick while you still know everything except for relevant history.

You're a fucking joke dude. A bad one at that.

And how old are you and acting like a fucking two-year-old yourself? You wonder why I call you a hypocrite. You are nothing more than a child with a temper who possesses an adult's body.

[freakazoid]

The Geneva convention treaties state:

"Captured combatants and civilians who find themselves under the authority of the adverse party are entitled to respect for their life, their dignity, their personal rights and their political, religious and other convictions. They must be protected against all acts of violence or reprisal. They are entitled to exchange news with their families and receive aid.

Everyone must enjoy basic judicial guarantees and no one may be held responsible for an act he has not committed. No one may be subjected to physical or mental torture or to cruel or degrading corporal punishment or other treatment."

more here (http://www.redcross.lv/en/conventions.htm)

So it not just soldiers who are covered but all civilians as well. And when we declared war on terror did we not make the terrorists enemy soldiers? And if they are part of a cell or organization with a hierarchy could they not be following orders?

Terrorists do not really torture for "pleasure" but for ideology. And in a way so do we. Ideology drives our actions in the middle east. Actions that millions have died from. Whether it was a corporate or democratic ideology, it was in defense of ideas we entered into their world. And it is that entry and behavior in their nations that they say is the reason for their actions. (Bin Laden wants us out of Saudi Arabia- has ever since the first Gulf war)

I feel it is important to keep in mind why they committed the atrocities they did. When a building falls on it's own we don't just shrug our shoulders, we investigate the reasons why in order to prevent such a thing from happening again. I think the same logic should apply here too.

I am not apologising for their actions, they are murderers and should be punished. I just don't believe we should destroy our values to do so. We have a system for dealing with murderers that has functioned well for us for hundreds of years. And yes I think there should be trials and investigations. If for no other reason then to find all who have supported, funded and acted as accomplises. Those investigations will bring us to our Saudi "friends". Those of you who have been around for a while know I advocate a much firmer hand with Saudi Arabia, whose hands are bloody, and who practice the worst forms of Islam, Wahabism.

Jim, while we never intended to kill innocents with our bombs, we do - by the tens of thousands. And the reasons for our even being in Iraq are at best questionable. Yes Saddam was an asshole, but we stood by his side as he gassed the Kurds, and committed many other atrocities. We stood by him when it was convienent and turned on im when it was convienent too. I know if I remember the newspaper stories you are old enough to as well.


RE: "Jim, while we never intended to kill innocents with our bombs, we do - by the tens of thousands."

No, we did not. Their deaths are on the heads of the maggots that slammed two jets into the trade towers, one into the Pentagon and one into the ground and by doing so began a war on terror that has caused the lost of innocent lives. You have it wrong again, PS.

[MrJim]

Anti American huh, ---> http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1870219,00.html

more like you're anti truth...... your a regular propaganda mill aren't you !? There are enough people spreading hate and fear without you helping.

He SUPPORTS A FUCKING TERRORIST you dolt! I never brought economics or oil dependency into this debate. Stay on track or shut the hell up.

[Rise Up]

And how old are you and acting like a fucking two-year-old yourself? You wonder why I call you a hypocrite. You are nothing more than a child with a temper who possesses an adult's body.

I'm getting so many laughs from him it's not even funny. :D

Prometheus: YOU don't know relevant history!!!11!!1@ :mad:

RiseUp:Really? I never knew that anything that isn't bad for America isn't relevant?! :eek:

[Prometheus]

YOUR idea of relevant history is anything bad for capitalists. MY idea of relevant history is any history at all because if we lose that, we lose the very things that we were in the past and forget our past mistakes.

You don't even know our past mistakes. You're hopeless.


Yet all that I have learn'd (hugh toyles now past) By long experience, and in famous schools, Is but to know my ignorance at last, Who think themselves most wise are greatest fools. -William Alexander, Earl of Stirling

[Rise Up]

RE: "Jim, while we never intended to kill innocents with our bombs, we do - by the tens of thousands."

No, we did not. Their deaths are on the heads of the maggots that slammed two jets into the trade towers, one into the Pentagon and one into the ground and by doing so began a war on terror that has caused the lost of innocent lives. You have it wrong again, PS.

Actually, as I pointed out, we cannot control bombs completely. In a desert environment dust and sand gets in everything. Bombs stop exploding. Laser designators don't work right. Weapons jam. We can't control the environment.

[MrJim]

You don't even know our past mistakes. You're hopeless.

You have no motivation to prepare for the future. You're hopeless.

[Rise Up]

You don't even know our past mistakes. You're hopeless.

I don't think myself the most wise. I only think that I am well informed in History. If anything, that quote leans more toward you than it does me.

[Prometheus]

He SUPPORTS A FUCKING TERRORIST you dolt! I never brought economics or oil dependency into this debate. Stay on track or shut the hell up.

Look who started the name calling this time.........
YEAH YEAH YEAH !!!:rolleyes: Enough of this evil terrorist bullshit you use to justify anything you want to.......:mad:

The old defenition

Terrorism

Terrorism is the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion. At present, there is no internationally agreed definition of terrorism. Common definitions of terrorism refer only to those acts which are intended to create fear (terror), are perpetrated for an ideological goal (as opposed to a lone attack), and deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants.

Some definitions also include acts of unlawful violence and war. The history of terrorist organizations suggests that they do not select terrorism for its political effectiveness. Individual terrorists tend to be motivated more by a desire for social solidarity with other members of their organization than by political platforms or strategic objectives, which are often murky and undefined. The word "terrorism" is politically and emotionally charged, and this greatly compounds the difficulty of providing a precise definition. One 1988 study by the US Army found that over 100 definitions of the word "terrorism" have been used. A person who practices terrorism is a terrorist. The concept of terrorism is itself controversial because it is often used by states to delegitimize political opponents, and thus legitimize the state's own use of terror against those opponents.
Terrorism has been used by a broad array of political organizations in furthering their objectives; both right-wing and left-wing political parties, nationalistic, and religious groups, revolutionaries and ruling governments.The presence of non-state actors in widespread armed conflict has created controversy regarding the application of the laws of war.

While acts of terrorism are criminal acts as per the United Nations Security Council Resolution 1373 and domestic jurisprudence of almost all countries in the world, terrorism refers to a phenomenon including the actual acts, the perpetrators of acts of terrorism and their motives.


The new defenition

Terrorism

Anyone Opposed to U.S. domination.

[MrJim]

YEAH YEAH YEAH !!!:rolleyes: Enough of this evil terrorist bullshit you use to justify anything you want to.......:mad:

The old defenition

Terrorism

Terrorism is the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion. At present, there is no internationally agreed definition of terrorism. Common definitions of terrorism refer only to those acts which are intended to create fear (terror), are perpetrated for an ideological goal (as opposed to a lone attack), and deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants.

Some definitions also include acts of unlawful violence and war. The history of terrorist organizations suggests that they do not select terrorism for its political effectiveness. Individual terrorists tend to be motivated more by a desire for social solidarity with other members of their organization than by political platforms or strategic objectives, which are often murky and undefined. The word "terrorism" is politically and emotionally charged, and this greatly compounds the difficulty of providing a precise definition. One 1988 study by the US Army found that over 100 definitions of the word "terrorism" have been used. A person who practices terrorism is a terrorist. The concept of terrorism is itself controversial because it is often used by states to delegitimize political opponents, and thus legitimize the state's own use of terror against those opponents.
Terrorism has been used by a broad array of political organizations in furthering their objectives; both right-wing and left-wing political parties, nationalistic, and religious groups, revolutionaries and ruling governments.The presence of non-state actors in widespread armed conflict has created controversy regarding the application of the laws of war.

While acts of terrorism are criminal acts as per the United Nations Security Council Resolution 1373 and domestic jurisprudence of almost all countries in the world, terrorism refers to a phenomenon including the actual acts, the perpetrators of acts of terrorism and their motives.


The new defenition

Terrorism

Anyone Opposed to U.S. domination.

OOOhhh.. did you wiktionary that one all by yourself? For your information, people WITHIN the U.S. like myself are opposed to government domination. Does that mean all the conservatives who support limited government are terrorists? Your bullshit 'new definition' is absurd. Islamic radicals want to dominate the world, not the other way around. Anyone who supports them supports your brilliant wiktionary definition of TERRORISM.

[Prometheus]

You jim are a member of the far right,

The term far right has been used by different scholars in conflicting ways. The term far right is mostly used to describe fascism, Nazism and other ultra-nationalist as well as reactionary ideologies and movements. The BBC has called politician Pim Fortuyn's politics (Fortuynism) far right because of his policies on immigration and Muslims. The term far right has been used by some, such as National Public Radio, to describe certain authoritarian governments that promote free market capitalism, such as that of Augusto Pinochet in Chile. Radical left-wing publication New Left Review has called Ronald Reagan's policies "radical right". The term radical right has also been used to refer to "a libertarian movement which places the individual squarely in the center" and has "even attacked such sacred taboos as taxation".

The US Department of Homeland Security defines right-wing extremism as hate groups who target racial, ethnic or religious minorities and may be dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration.

Bet you didn't know that you your self are a member of an Extreamist group ! And yes there is PLENTY of right wing terrorism

[Rise Up]

Look who started the name calling this time.........
YEAH YEAH YEAH !!!:rolleyes: Enough of this evil terrorist bullshit you use to justify anything you want to.......:mad:

The old defenition

Terrorism

Terrorism is the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion. At present, there is no internationally agreed definition of terrorism. Common definitions of terrorism refer only to those acts which are intended to create fear (terror), are perpetrated for an ideological goal (as opposed to a lone attack), and deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants.

Some definitions also include acts of unlawful violence and war. The history of terrorist organizations suggests that they do not select terrorism for its political effectiveness. Individual terrorists tend to be motivated more by a desire for social solidarity with other members of their organization than by political platforms or strategic objectives, which are often murky and undefined. The word "terrorism" is politically and emotionally charged, and this greatly compounds the difficulty of providing a precise definition. One 1988 study by the US Army found that over 100 definitions of the word "terrorism" have been used. A person who practices terrorism is a terrorist. The concept of terrorism is itself controversial because it is often used by states to delegitimize political opponents, and thus legitimize the state's own use of terror against those opponents.
Terrorism has been used by a broad array of political organizations in furthering their objectives; both right-wing and left-wing political parties, nationalistic, and religious groups, revolutionaries and ruling governments.The presence of non-state actors in widespread armed conflict has created controversy regarding the application of the laws of war.

While acts of terrorism are criminal acts as per the United Nations Security Council Resolution 1373 and domestic jurisprudence of almost all countries in the world, terrorism refers to a phenomenon including the actual acts, the perpetrators of acts of terrorism and their motives.


The new defenition

Terrorism

Anyone Opposed to U.S. domination.

Would you kindly point out how we are dominating the world? :rolleyes: We don't have a massive empire, hell, Puerto Rico could become a state if they wanted to. But they don't.

[Rise Up]

The term far right has been used by different scholars in conflicting ways. The term far right is mostly used to describe fascism, Nazism and other ultra-nationalist as well as reactionary ideologies and movements. The BBC has called politician Pim Fortuyn's politics (Fortuynism) far right because of his policies on immigration and Muslims. The term far right has been used by some, such as National Public Radio, to describe certain authoritarian governments that promote free market capitalism, such as that of Augusto Pinochet in Chile. Radical left-wing publication New Left Review has called Ronald Reagan's policies "radical right". The term radical right has also been used to refer to "a libertarian movement which places the individual squarely in the center" and has "even attacked such sacred taboos as taxation".

The US Department of Homeland Security defines right-wing extremism as hate groups who target racial, ethnic or religious minorities and may be dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration.

Bet you didn't know that you your self are a member of an Extreamist group ! And yes there is PLENTY of right wing terrorism

There is also plenty of left wing terror.

[MrJim]

The US Department of Homeland Security defines right-wing extremism as hate groups who target racial, ethnic or religious minorities and may be dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration.

Fine, I'll be an extremist for opposing the willful murder of innocent children. I'll be an extremist for wanting the douchebag illegal Mexicans from coming here illegally, which by the way inflates the cost of healthcare, the issue that your lord and savior Obama is offering stupid solutions for.

But I'm also in Texas and the 10th ammended backs our governor for rejecting Obama's bullshit - which he has. Good luck with your taxes.

[Rise Up]

Fine, I'll be an extremist for opposing the willful murder of innocent children. I'll be an extremist for wanting the douchebag illegal Mexicans from coming here illegally, which by the way inflates the cost of healthcare, the issue that your lord and savior Obama is offering stupid solutions for.

But I'm also in Texas and the 10th ammended backs our governor for rejecting Obama's bullshit - which he has. Good luck with your taxes.

can I move to Texas Jim? :D

Considering....Texas is going to be a new nation soon.

[Prometheus]

There is also plenty of left wing terror.

Yeah, but its the far right that when asked why were are alienating the world , conducting war for oil, and practicieng imperialism, nevermind stripping citizens of their rights, they always answer because of the evil terrorist. Its a cop-out, not a reason. Its bullshit.

[Prometheus]

Texas is going to be a new nation soon.

I hope so !!!! It would be an improvement to ship you hippacritical bigoits to you're own nation so you hicks can continue being selfish, xenophobic, raceist christian zealot, assholes far from the rest of us.

[MrJim]

can I move to Texas Jim? :D

Considering....Texas is going to be a new nation soon.

With any luck I hope your assessment is correct. Prometheus will be crying in his beer when two thirds of his packcheck goes to taxes and the other third to beer. Just keep your sign and can at home, Promo, Texas doesn't need any more idiots like yourself.

[Rise Up]

Yeah, but its the far right that when asked why were are alienating the world , conducting war for oil, and practicieng imperialism, nevermind stripping citizens of their rights, they always answer because of the evil terrorist. Its a cop-out, not a reason. Its bullshit.

Please explain how Jefferson promoted the Revolutionary War for oil? For an Empire? For stripping citizens of right?

And what does the far left want? They want....a welfare state where everyone pays, as you said, HIGHER TAXES(:D), everyone lives how the government says, everyone makes an equal amount as everyone else. And the government is basically the owner of your house, your dogs, your car, your family etc. Sounds SOOOO much better. :rolleyes:

Alright, how do you know we went to war for oil in Iraq? Do you have proof that oil in Iraq is coming into America? I got news for YOU. Not one drop of oil has been gathered since the start of the Gulf War so far as I know. Liberals are more likely to take rights from people, such as the right to bear arms, not actual bear arms but guns. When have conservatives taken rights from people? Did you know that Lincoln was a conservative? Yeah, he was in the Republican party and guess who freed the slaves? The racist, white loving Republican party. And guess who supported the KKK and segregation? The oh so saintly Demorat Party!! :D

[Rise Up]

With any luck I hope your assessment is correct. Prometheus will be crying in his beer when two thirds of his packcheck goes to taxes and the other third to beer. Just keep your sign and can at home, Texas doesn't need any more idiots like yourself.

Me or Prom? :confused: Sign and can?

[MrJim]

I hope so !!!! It would be an improvement to ship you hippacritical bigoits to you're own nation so you hicks can continue being selfish, xenophobic, raceist christian zealot, assholes far from the rest of us.

Nice random stereotypes. I guess you think we all wear spurs and ride horses to work too. By the way, Texas has all the oil and natural gas. Unless you can learn to spell 'bigoits' and 'hippacritical' correctly, good luck finding a job that can pay for your $15.00/gallon gas while we cruise around at 20 cents/gallon.

[Prometheus]

Please explain how Jefferson promoted the Revolutionary War for oil? For an Empire? For stripping citizens of right?

And what does the far left want? They want....a welfare state where everyone pays, as you said, HIGHER TAXES(:D), everyone lives how the government says, everyone makes an equal amount as everyone else. And the government is basically the owner of your house, your dogs, your car, your family etc. Sounds SOOOO much better. :rolleyes:

Alright, how do you know we went to war for oil in Iraq? Do you have proof that oil in Iraq is coming into America? I got news for YOU. Not one drop of oil has been gathered since the start of the Gulf War so far as I know. Liberals are more likely to take rights from people, such as the right to bear arms, not actual bear arms but guns. When have conservatives taken rights from people? Did you know that Lincoln was a conservative? Yeah, he was in the Republican party and guess who freed the slaves? The racist, white loving Republican party. And guess who supported the KKK and segregation? The oh so saintly Demorat Party!! :D

You're truely clueless, its past the point of funny too, I actually feel sorry for you. I'm done banging my head against your ignorance.:rolleyes:

[MrJim]

Me or Prom? :confused: Sign and can?

I was referring to Promo (fixed).

[Rise Up]

I was referring to Promo (fixed).

Ah...well. Personally, I think he needs to be banned again. At least temporarily if anything. A couple days and he'll quit this shit. I'm being the mature one and it's stressing me out.

[MrJim]

Ah...well. Personally, I think he needs to be banned again. At least temporarily if anything. A couple days and he'll quit this shit. I'm being the mature one and it's stressing me out.

Not me. There's nothing on TV friday nights that's nearly as entertaining as watching him make an ass of himself. I have posted time and time again, as has hitek, Montanarchist, zack and others why socialism SCIENTIFICALLY does not work. He either ignores the facts or is just plain stupid.

No response to any intelligent economic standpoints. None.

[Prometheus]

No response to any intelligent economic standpoints. None.

you spoke too soon dumbass !! You haven't really though about this have you jim, me let me let you in on some things you probably haven't though about.....

I hate to point out the obvious, but you can't be patriotic to your country if you at the same time advocate leaving it en masse. Texans were the leaders of southern patriotism and values, they now seem to be advocating high treason. Secession talk is ironclad proof that progressives are the true patriots and that conservatives actually hate America. Their country takes second place to conservative politics and the demi-gods that it creates.

The incorrect reaction is to pout and politically "take your ball and go home." When progressives were in the political minority they worked hard and made political movements and arguments. Now that conservatives are in the political minority they scream tyranny and say that they don't want to be American anymore. Grown-ups react to not getting their way by pushing harder and striving to get better; immature children react to not getting their way by kicking and screaming, throwing temper tantrums. At the moment Texas conservatives seem to frighteningly resemble a kid in the cereal isle at the grocery store whose parents won't buy him Chocolate Frosted Sugar Bombs. Who are the real patriots here?

Texas would be hit with a multitude of problems that were once solved as a component of being a member state in the federal government. Texas would lose a massive amount of its current commerce if it were to become an independent state. It would experience a massive outflow of people, many of which would be the people that would cause the most harm to the state. It would have to suddenly face issues of national security that it historically would not be prepared. All in all, leaving the US would prove to be devastating to Texas--those that advocate it should be held accountable to what it is they are actually preaching.

One of the first problems that would occur would be its loss of trade abilities. The people of the state are very much against NAFTA, so there is little evidence that they would want to join it as a member nation. Even if they flip-flopped and decided to join NAFTA, that would require months to put in place, months that would be harsh on the Texan economy. They would no longer likely be much of an avenue for current US/Mexican trading as we would seek to minimize tariffs by routing that traffic through New Mexico and Arizona. They would lose American border protection; while this would be able to aptly be performed by Texas, it would add a significant new cost to the budget. Texas would lose massive amounts of tourism as fewer people would be willing to vacation in Texas if it required a passport and customs checks in and out. They additionally would lose the use of the US Dollar as a currency along with the ability to acquire FDIC protection for its banks. This would require stabilization of the banking system as a new fiscal and monetary plan was created as billions would flow out of the state in favor of US banks. Keep in mind with all these considerations that there is little evidence that there will exist the political will to increase the tax base enough to cover the additional costs of sovereignty.

One of the first things to happen would be the loss of federal institutions. Secession would invalidate Texas' ability to be involved in the Social Security program. This would cause a massive cost to Texas to either fund a replacement (huge tax increase) or discontinue the program leading to a mass exodus from its people that are forced to rely on Social Security. It would additionally end their ability to receive Medicare benefits or contribute to US based retirement accounts like IRAs and 401(k)s. This would cause another mass exodus of refugees returning to the US. Let us also not forget that secession would also dis-enroll colleges in Texas from membership in the NCAA in all sports. I would imagine the fans of sports like these will soon get tired of watching Baylor, UT, Tech, and A&M play each other over and over again. Colleges period would suffer as many would chose not to go to schools in Texas or work there once they get degrees in favor of a more open career in America. Many of the people that would leave Texas would be its best and brightest.

At the same time as the exodus of federal institutions would occur a massive exodus of business from Texas. One of the first that comes to mind is the use of Texas as a hub for airlines like Southwest. Dallas and Houston are large hubs for flights. They would instantly pull out of using these as hubs putting many thousands out of work. Airlines would no longer use a foreign country as its domestic hub, particularly considering the extremely restrictive nature of international flight routes by the FAA. Because of the inability to gain FDIC protection, large banks in Texas would move their primary operations to the US to be able to maintain their American consumer base. There are similar effects that could be considered for many businesses as the economic effect of the billions that flows through Texas would dry up as its costs would inevitably increase and their former customers would prefer to "Buy American." These actions would lead to a massive increase in unemployment, decrease in population, and runaway increase in crime rates

The most important reason that real Texans should oppose secession is the state's inability to maintain its national security. They would lose everything that belongs to the US military and would have to spend many years trying to reacquire a new military and equipment. It's going to take more than just some rednecks with deer rifles. Plus, it is important to remember that Texas not historically known as a military power. This is a state that during its national sovereignty lost a war to Mexico. Let me say that again, Texas lost a war to Mexico. It is an instance that solidly proves that it didn't consider itself a true independent nation. Texas loved to tout itself as a nation until Santa Anna showed up and started kicking the shit out of Texas. It was then that they instantly came crying back to America, an actual country, to come save them from the Mexicans. The list of countries that have lost wars to Mexico is a short one, but there is Texas' name shining brightly at the top.

In total, the quality of life for Texans would suffer severely in the case of secession. It would devastate the entire country and become the worst thing that ever happened to it. And, in that instance where it occurred I think it would only be prudent for the US to keep a database of everyone that advocated Texas secession and disallow any of them to ever enter the US.

All those that are true citizens of both Texas and the USA should be calling for the resignation or impeachment of Gov. Perry. It is one thing when some crazy radicals like Todd Palin (Sarah Palin's husband and Alaska secessionist) advocate secession. But it is another when the supposed political mainstream of a state espouses that position. It is obvious that in one way this is meant only to appease the radical political demagogues. But it is important to outline that he is cowing to these radicals at the risk of destroying the entire state.

[beelzebub]

So pretty much what you are saying is that it is perfectly fine for some Islamic terrorists to fly a jet into a building, killing thousands of people for their "holy crusade", yet pouring water on a suspected terrorist to get info is wrong...goddamn :rolleyes:

You really don't know what waterboarding is do you:
Waterboarding is a form of torture that consists of immobilizing the victim on his or her back with the head inclined downwards, and then pouring water over the face and into the breathing passages, causing the captive to believe he or she is dying.By forced suffocation and inhalation of water, the subject experiences the sensation of drowning.

You don't get reliable information from torture. Need more info? Check out the SPANISH INQUISITION (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_inquisition).

[Prometheus]

You really don't know what waterboarding is do you:
Waterboarding is a form of torture that consists of immobilizing the victim on his or her back with the head inclined downwards, and then pouring water over the face and into the breathing passages, causing the captive to believe he or she is dying.By forced suffocation and inhalation of water, the subject experiences the sensation of drowning.

You don't get reliable information from torture. Need more info? Check out the SPANISH INQUISITION (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_inquisition).

LMFAO, thats funny man, but I dont think it will help change their anything against the evil evil terrorist mantality

[MrJim]

you spoke too soon dumbass !!

I spoke the only logical way out of the shit you support.


You haven't really though about this have you jim, me let me let you in on some things you probably haven't though about.....

Go on.


I hate to point out the obvious, but you can't be patriotic to your country if you at the same time advocate leaving it en masse. Texans were the leaders of southern patriotism and values, they now seem to be advocating high treason. Secession talk is ironclad proof that progressives are the true patriots and that conservatives actually hate America. Their country takes second place to conservative politics and the demi-gods that it creates.

Let me get something through your thick skull, I saw this shit coming before your mighty leader took office. The America I support is the America we had before Obama and his cronies started shoving socialism up our ass. We are going to be STONE FUCKING BROKE because of this administration. All the values that our forefathers faught and died for are becoming dismantled by some dickhead that has the comprehension of a sea urchin. If secession preserves those values, good. Enjoy living in poverty in the new 'America'. Mighty leader is handing you the state of Russia on a silver platter with no side of food. Good luck to you. I feel sorry for your family, but this is what you wanted.


The incorrect reaction is to pout and politically "take your ball and go home." When progressives were in the political minority they worked hard and made political movements and arguments. Now that conservatives are in the political minority they scream tyranny and say that they don't want to be American anymore. Grown-ups react to not getting their way by pushing harder and striving to get better; immature children react to not getting their way by kicking and screaming, throwing temper tantrums. At the moment Texas conservatives seem to frighteningly resemble a kid in the cereal isle at the grocery store whose parents won't buy him Chocolate Frosted Sugar Bombs. Who are the real patriots here?

You are one to talk about 'striving to get better'. All you have done is bitch and moan about how those mean wealthy people have money and you don't. It's called vertical mobility my friend. It takes effort. What you advocate is a Robin Hood economy which will result in only MORE unemployment and higher poverty as the haves shutter businesses and take more jobs from the have-nots. It's hard to be 'patriotic' when you have a president which is pushing just that. Once he was elected, we should have put our flags at half-mast to signal the death of a once strong nation.


Texas would be hit with a multitude of problems that were once solved as a component of being a member state in the federal government. Texas would lose a massive amount of its current commerce if it were to become an independent state. It would experience a massive outflow of people, many of which would be the people that would cause the most harm to the state. It would have to suddenly face issues of national security that it historically would not be prepared. All in all, leaving the US would prove to be devastating to Texas--those that advocate it should be held accountable to what it is they are actually preaching.

I think you forgot about Bell Helicopter, Lockheed, and other military companies based in Texas. And how do you figure people would prefer to move to a hell-hole than live in a state that can provide for itself. We have ALWAYS believed in limited government and we balance our own budgets, unlike states like California that are just about broke. Truth be told, most of the lost jobs in Texas have come from chains based OUTSIDE of Texas. You can keep those too. We will make it.


One of the first problems that would occur would be its loss of trade abilities. The people of the state are very much against NAFTA, so there is little evidence that they would want to join it as a member nation. Even if they flip-flopped and decided to join NAFTA, that would require months to put in place, months that would be harsh on the Texan economy. They would no longer likely be much of an avenue for current US/Mexican trading as we would seek to minimize tariffs by routing that traffic through New Mexico and Arizona. They would lose American border protection; while this would be able to aptly be performed by Texas, it would add a significant new cost to the budget. Texas would lose massive amounts of tourism as fewer people would be willing to vacation in Texas if it required a passport and customs checks in and out. They additionally would lose the use of the US Dollar as a currency along with the ability to acquire FDIC protection for its banks. This would require stabilization of the banking system as a new fiscal and monetary plan was created as billions would flow out of the state in favor of US banks. Keep in mind with all these considerations that there is little evidence that there will exist the political will to increase the tax base enough to cover the additional costs of sovereignty.

Good riddance to Mexican trade. American workers could earn a living again. And what makes you think all the states would become enemies? We could annex them if they so wished, and if they were in poverty they would be begging for it. The U.S. dollar is fucked, and the FDIC don't mean shit. We could have our own currency and you could pay out the nose for the oil, food, and other necessities. Your bitch, not ours. Thinks have changed since the 1800's, believe it or not.


One of the first things to happen would be the loss of federal institutions. Secession would invalidate Texas' ability to be involved in the Social Security program. This would cause a massive cost to Texas to either fund a replacement (huge tax increase) or discontinue the program leading to a mass exodus from its people that are forced to rely on Social Security. It would additionally end their ability to receive Medicare benefits or contribute to US based retirement accounts like IRAs and 401(k)s. This would cause another mass exodus of refugees returning to the US. Let us also not forget that secession would also dis-enroll colleges in Texas from membership in the NCAA in all sports. I would imagine the fans of sports like these will soon get tired of watching Baylor, UT, Tech, and A&M play each other over and over again. Colleges period would suffer as many would chose not to go to schools in Texas or work there once they get degrees in favor of a more open career in America. Many of the people that would leave Texas would be its best and brightest.

Social Security and Medicare are going bankrupt. Thank God my wife is a teacher and doesn't pay into or rely on either. I don't know why you brought up IRAs and 401(k) plans, but really don't care either. Nationwide stocks have sunk the Dow from 14,000 to 9,000 (which we got to from about 6,000). I also like how you predict people based on bullshit. The 'best and brightest' will go where the money is. Can you guess where it would be?


At the same time as the exodus of federal institutions would occur a massive exodus of business from Texas. One of the first that comes to mind is the use of Texas as a hub for airlines like Southwest. Dallas and Houston are large hubs for flights. They would instantly pull out of using these as hubs putting many thousands out of work. Airlines would no longer use a foreign country as its domestic hub, particularly considering the extremely restrictive nature of international flight routes by the FAA. Because of the inability to gain FDIC protection, large banks in Texas would move their primary operations to the US to be able to maintain their American consumer base. There are similar effects that could be considered for many businesses as the economic effect of the billions that flows through Texas would dry up as its costs would inevitably increase and their former customers would prefer to "Buy American." These actions would lead to a massive increase in unemployment, decrease in population, and runaway increase in crime rates

...continued

[MrJim]

...continued.

I have already explained what will lead to an increase in crime rates and unemployment in America and don't care to repeat it. Go to the politic(ian)s forum. Hint: It's not Texas' independency.


The most important reason that real Texans should oppose secession is the state's inability to maintain its national security. They would lose everything that belongs to the US military and would have to spend many years trying to reacquire a new military and equipment. It's going to take more than just some rednecks with deer rifles. Plus, it is important to remember that Texas not historically known as a military power. This is a state that during its national sovereignty lost a war to Mexico. Let me say that again, Texas lost a war to Mexico. It is an instance that solidly proves that it didn't consider itself a true independent nation. Texas loved to tout itself as a nation until Santa Anna showed up and started kicking the shit out of Texas. It was then that they instantly came crying back to America, an actual country, to come save them from the Mexicans. The list of countries that have lost wars to Mexico is a short one, but there is Texas' name shining brightly at the top.

I doubt you know shit about the Alamo, so fuck you for throwing that in my face. It's 2009, get a grip on reality already.


In total, the quality of life for Texans would suffer severely in the case of secession. It would devastate the entire country and become the worst thing that ever happened to it. And, in that instance where it occurred I think it would only be prudent for the US to keep a database of everyone that advocated Texas secession and disallow any of them to ever enter the US.

You're contradicting yourself with the whole 'loss of population' bullshit and advocating to cage Texans out at the same time. I guess you want a fence around your country to keep us out. Good. Except you might need all those Mexicans which would go... (fill in the blank)


All those that are true citizens of both Texas and the USA should be calling for the resignation or impeachment of Gov. Perry. It is one thing when some crazy radicals like Todd Palin (Sarah Palin's husband and Alaska secessionist) advocate secession. But it is another when the supposed political mainstream of a state espouses that position. It is obvious that in one way this is meant only to appease the radical political demagogues. But it is important to outline that he is cowing to these radicals at the risk of destroying the entire state.

I never even liked Rick Perry, mainly because of what he did with deregulation of electricity. But he has balls standing up to the bastards that are going to bankrupt our country and I respect that.

BTW, what makes you such a fucking patriot that you can criticize someone else? You like socialism so much, then move to Canada. Hell, just today they declared their 'official end of the recession'. Enjoy the taxes and higher costs of living. Better yet, go to Mexico. They are socialist as well. Or Venezuela. It's a big world and there are plenty of villages missing an idiot.

[MrJim]

promoIDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are a fucking mindless piece of rotting dog shit. We do what we have to do to get information out of islamic terrorist, you fucking shit-for-brains coward.

Fuck off and die, promoIDIOT. YEAH, DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I only wish it would have been YOUR KIDS who died in the Trade Towers burned to death while screaming in horror or maybe beheaded by an islamic terrorist for the cause in a video on YouTube; I wonder what they look like with out a head?

Maybe you would think better if YOUR wife had been shot in the back of the head in a public sports park in Afganisan by the taliban asshole after being beaten damn near to death for not wearing a burka you fucking sick ignorant moron.

Or maybe we should kick one of your kids to death in the street because one of their friends was not of the same sect of islam as you. After kicking them to damn near to death, I wish it would have been one of YOUR kids who was finished off by having their skull crushed with a brick while gasping in their last helpless breaths.

You disgust me you worthless piece of drunken cowardly puke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FUCK YOU!!

CAN WE PLEASE BAN THIS WORTHLESS MOTHER FUCKER OFF BS FOREVER?!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE GET RID OF THIS PILE OF SUB-HUMAN POND SCUM MAGGOT!!!!!!!!

HERE, promoIDIOT, here are your kids and wife...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_IQEWthqVjcg/SIlymp7p9jI/AAAAAAAAAEY/O4IOfFiy5v8/s400/2.bmp

http://chromatism.net/current/images/stoning.jpg

http://images30.fotki.com/v471/photos/3/34283/5522462/Islam_is_a_death_cult_poster-vi.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_KAxYCDgeIAE/SWj3kZ2pdbI/AAAAAAAAAEY/BpQha75EIGU/s400/christian-beheading.jpg

Whoa... whoa... whoa...

I clicked the link on Promo's sig that sent me here... Now really freak, that's not cool. Even though Prometheus is a moron, that's a little sick referencing his kids to those pictures, don't you think? Maybe you should delete that one.

[beelzebub]

Whoa... whoa... whoa...

I clicked the link on Promo's sig that sent me here... Now really freak, that's not cool. Even though Prometheus is a moron, that's a little sick referencing his kids to those pictures, don't you think? Maybe you should delete that one.

I understand the point Freak is making but he is totally OUT OF LINE again. Talk about extremist!


http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m245/retsetevets/Freaktobeposted.jpg?t=1248496137

[freakazoid]

Whoa... whoa... whoa...

I clicked the link on Promo's sig that sent me here... Now really freak, that's not cool. Even though Prometheus is a moron, that's a little sick referencing his kids to those pictures, don't you think? Maybe you should delete that one.

Not sick at all, MJ. My point was simple; if it were his kids who faced death at the hands of islamic insects like those in the images I posted, he might think twice about spitting on the country that is fighting islamic terror. It's easy for the asshole to attack the United States for doing what has to be done when in reality the little hypocritical worthless cowardly prick could give a fuck about anyone else who has died at the hands of islam.

[freakazoid]

I understand the point Freak is making but he is totally OUT OF LINE again. Talk about extremist!


http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m245/retsetevets/Freaktobeposted.jpg?t=1248496137

Given that you are a AIDS infected homosexual sodomite, I bet that image turns you on, eh beelzeDUMB.

[Prometheus]

Given that you are a AIDS infected homosexual sodomite, I bet that image turns you on, eh beelzeDUMB.

Who do you not hate ?

[freakazoid]

Who do you not hate ?

Why do you?

[Prometheus]

Why do you?

Do you always answer a question with a question ? What groups of people do you not hate ?

[Rise Up]

Do you always answer a question with a question ? What groups of people do you not hate ?

What groups do you hate?

[MrJim]

Not sick at all, MJ. My point was simple; if it were his kids who faced death at the hands of islamic insects like those in the images I posted, he might think twice about spitting on the country that is fighting islamic terror. It's easy for the asshole to attack the United States for doing what has to be done when in reality the little hypocritical worthless cowardly prick could give a fuck about anyone else who has died at the hands of islam.

I see your point, but it's not his kids' fault. Honestly, if you posted something like that referencing my daughter, we would be beyond the debate stage, I would be perfectly justified in wanting to kill you. IMHO the right thing to do would be to delete the post, or at least find a more tactful way of expressing your point.

[freakazoid]

I see your point, but it's not his kids' fault. Honestly, if you posted something like that referencing my daughter, we would be beyond the debate stage, I would be perfectly justified in wanting to kill you. IMHO the right thing to do would be to delete the post, or at least find a more tactful way of expressing your point.

Tactful works with intelligent thinking people; promoIDIOT is neither, MJ. He is merely a coward and lowlife masquerading as an idealist. He couldn't give a damn about anything of value or decency.

[MrJim]

Tactful works with intelligent thinking people; promoIDIOT is neither, MJ. He is merely a coward and lowlife masquerading as an idealist. He couldn't give a damn about anything of value or decency.

No arguments there. It's been a Friday night barfight between me and him all night long. But think about it, you're a Christian and you're (indirectly) threatening someone's family. WWJD?

[freakazoid]

Do you always answer a question with a question ? What groups of people do you not hate ?

What groups of people do you not hate, lowlife?

Understand this, and understand it well, promoIDIOT...you may or may not fool others, but you sure as hell don't fool me with your games or horse shit. You are about the lowest piece of worthless vomit I have had the misfortune to have to stomp into the ground in a log time. I have more respect for a pile of dog shit than you low life maggot.

Before you were here this was a interesting and fun message board to read and post in. It is now deteriorating into a fucking hell hole because of you.

Trust me, asshole; it won't be long until you are gone and banned for life. It is only a matter of time. Play your games for now, because that will end soon.

Are we clear, you piece of shit?

[freakazoid]

No arguments there. It's been a Friday night barfight between me and him all night long. But think about it, you're a Christian and you're (indirectly) threatening someone's family. WWJD?

No threat at all, merely trying to get the asshole to roleplay his kids and him into the roles others have had to endure. I doubt that a single brain cell (if he has any) was enlightened at all.

[Prometheus]

This one goes out to the FreaKKKazoid, the most hate filled man I have ever met. Here's to you man ---> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pudOFG5X6uA

[Renaschelle]

you spoke too soon dumbass !! You haven't really though about this have you jim, me let me let you in on some things you probably haven't though about.....

I hate to point out the obvious, but you can't be patriotic to your country if you at the same time advocate leaving it en masse. Texans were the leaders of southern patriotism and values, they now seem to be advocating high treason. Secession talk is ironclad proof that progressives are the true patriots and that conservatives actually hate America. Their country takes second place to conservative politics and the demi-gods that it creates.

The incorrect reaction is to pout and politically "take your ball and go home." When progressives were in the political minority they worked hard and made political movements and arguments. Now that conservatives are in the political minority they scream tyranny and say that they don't want to be American anymore. Grown-ups react to not getting their way by pushing harder and striving to get better; immature children react to not getting their way by kicking and screaming, throwing temper tantrums. At the moment Texas conservatives seem to frighteningly resemble a kid in the cereal isle at the grocery store whose parents won't buy him Chocolate Frosted Sugar Bombs. Who are the real patriots here?

Texas would be hit with a multitude of problems that were once solved as a component of being a member state in the federal government. Texas would lose a massive amount of its current commerce if it were to become an independent state. It would experience a massive outflow of people, many of which would be the people that would cause the most harm to the state. It would have to suddenly face issues of national security that it historically would not be prepared. All in all, leaving the US would prove to be devastating to Texas--those that advocate it should be held accountable to what it is they are actually preaching.

One of the first problems that would occur would be its loss of trade abilities. The people of the state are very much against NAFTA, so there is little evidence that they would want to join it as a member nation. Even if they flip-flopped and decided to join NAFTA, that would require months to put in place, months that would be harsh on the Texan economy. They would no longer likely be much of an avenue for current US/Mexican trading as we would seek to minimize tariffs by routing that traffic through New Mexico and Arizona. They would lose American border protection; while this would be able to aptly be performed by Texas, it would add a significant new cost to the budget. Texas would lose massive amounts of tourism as fewer people would be willing to vacation in Texas if it required a passport and customs checks in and out. They additionally would lose the use of the US Dollar as a currency along with the ability to acquire FDIC protection for its banks. This would require stabilization of the banking system as a new fiscal and monetary plan was created as billions would flow out of the state in favor of US banks. Keep in mind with all these considerations that there is little evidence that there will exist the political will to increase the tax base enough to cover the additional costs of sovereignty.

One of the first things to happen would be the loss of federal institutions. Secession would invalidate Texas' ability to be involved in the Social Security program. This would cause a massive cost to Texas to either fund a replacement (huge tax increase) or discontinue the program leading to a mass exodus from its people that are forced to rely on Social Security. It would additionally end their ability to receive Medicare benefits or contribute to US based retirement accounts like IRAs and 401(k)s. This would cause another mass exodus of refugees returning to the US. Let us also not forget that secession would also dis-enroll colleges in Texas from membership in the NCAA in all sports. I would imagine the fans of sports like these will soon get tired of watching Baylor, UT, Tech, and A&M play each other over and over again. Colleges period would suffer as many would chose not to go to schools in Texas or work there once they get degrees in favor of a more open career in America. Many of the people that would leave Texas would be its best and brightest.

At the same time as the exodus of federal institutions would occur a massive exodus of business from Texas. One of the first that comes to mind is the use of Texas as a hub for airlines like Southwest. Dallas and Houston are large hubs for flights. They would instantly pull out of using these as hubs putting many thousands out of work. Airlines would no longer use a foreign country as its domestic hub, particularly considering the extremely restrictive nature of international flight routes by the FAA. Because of the inability to gain FDIC protection, large banks in Texas would move their primary operations to the US to be able to maintain their American consumer base. There are similar effects that could be considered for many businesses as the economic effect of the billions that flows through Texas would dry up as its costs would inevitably increase and their former customers would prefer to "Buy American." These actions would lead to a massive increase in unemployment, decrease in population, and runaway increase in crime rates

The most important reason that real Texans should oppose secession is the state's inability to maintain its national security. They would lose everything that belongs to the US military and would have to spend many years trying to reacquire a new military and equipment. It's going to take more than just some rednecks with deer rifles. Plus, it is important to remember that Texas not historically known as a military power. This is a state that during its national sovereignty lost a war to Mexico. Let me say that again, Texas lost a war to Mexico. It is an instance that solidly proves that it didn't consider itself a true independent nation. Texas loved to tout itself as a nation until Santa Anna showed up and started kicking the shit out of Texas. It was then that they instantly came crying back to America, an actual country, to come save them from the Mexicans. The list of countries that have lost wars to Mexico is a short one, but there is Texas' name shining brightly at the top.
In total, the quality of life for Texans would suffer severely in the case of secession. It would devastate the entire country and become the worst thing that ever happened to it. And, in that instance where it occurred I think it would only be prudent for the US to keep a database of everyone that advocated Texas secession and disallow any of them to ever enter the US.

All those that are true citizens of both Texas and the USA should be calling for the resignation or impeachment of Gov. Perry. It is one thing when some crazy radicals like Todd Palin (Sarah Palin's husband and Alaska secessionist) advocate secession. But it is another when the supposed political mainstream of a state espouses that position. It is obvious that in one way this is meant only to appease the radical political demagogues. But it is important to outline that he is cowing to these radicals at the risk of destroying the entire state.

I have been looking over Jim's shoulder at this argument all night. Being a Texas History buff, let's clear a few things up:

1) Texas NEVER lost a war to Mexico. If we had, we would ALL still be speaking Spanish. Get your facts straight.
a. Texas lost the Alamo (reinforcements never came to the Alamo from the United States, but we relied on the US?? :confused: ), but we kicked Santa Anna and Mexico's ass at the Battle of San Jacinto in 18 minutes. He was too busy screwing a 13 year old mulatto slave girl in his tent to see the Texians (no, that is not a typo) coming down the little hill to kick their asses. The Texians killed 700 Mexicans and lost only 9 of their men; more than double the amount of Texians the Mexicans killed at the Battle of the Alamo. The Texians also captured 700 more Mexicans, including Santa Anna. He was found hiding and dressed as a foot soldier. When they brought him near the captured Mexicans they all stood up and bowed, saying "El Presidente". Dumb asses!

2) Texas was not a separate nation before the Texas War for Independence. We were a part of Mexico. We did not want to be forced to be Catholic, speak Spanish, or pay outrageous taxes, so we rebelled.
b. Texas became a separate nation after WE whooped Mexico's collective asses into the ground. We were a nation for 9 years, 11 months, and 17 days. We then became a part of the United States after many US citizens continued to flock to Texas. We were annexed because we were sick of being the buffer zone between the US and Mexico. This is why the Mexican American War happened AFTER our annexation. Tensions had been strong

Before you spout off inaccuracies about my beloved state, get your damn facts straight. Nothing pisses me off more than someone pretending to sound intelligent about something they know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about.

[Limbo]

I see your point, but it's not his kids' fault. Honestly, if you posted something like that referencing my daughter, we would be beyond the debate stage, I would be perfectly justified in wanting to kill you. IMHO the right thing to do would be to delete the post, or at least find a more tactful way of expressing your point.


Tactful works with intelligent thinking people; promoIDIOT is neither, MJ. He is merely a coward and lowlife masquerading as an idealist. He couldn't give a damn about anything of value or decency.


I don't mean to pile on here Freak, but I would agree with Mr. Jim that saying something like "I wish your kids had been the one who perished..." is a poor choice of words to say the least.

I think what you meant to say is, "if it had been your children who perished...".

You don't want to create any sympathy for him when he's trolling.

[Prometheus]

First:
I was reffering to 1846
Second:
No record or mention of the presence of a woman on the battlefield exists. Santa Anna's own officers,who later castigated his actions, never mentioned this allegation. The only evidence, and very weak at that, is a cryptic statement written by one of the Texans present: "Our victory was aided by Santa Anna's voluptuousness." One can read what he or she wants into that statement, with its very strange choice of a word -- at least with respect to its modern meanings. And this is generally where the junior high and high school textbooks end the story of the Battle of San Jacinto, with the end of the "'6 minutes of glory." But there is more, and it could be called, appropriately, the "90 minutes of gore." As the Texans routed the camp, many Mexican soldiers fled, filled with terror, toward the marshy terrain behind and to the north of the camp. Many of the Texans, filled with vengeance for the execution of so many of their number at the Alamo and Goliad, continued killing. Using their fired rifles as clubs until they broke at the breach, then picking up Mexican rifles, with bayonets, they continued the slaughter with blind hatred. Some Mexican soldiers, stumbling through the quagmire of the marshes in an attempt to get to the river and swim to safety, were shot and stabbed. Some fell, begged for mercy, crying "Me no Alamo! Me no Goliad!" The pleas went unheeded. The shallow water along the San Jacinto soon ran crimson. Houston and numerous other officers and men tried in vain to stop the senseless slaughter.

[Prometheus]

I don't mean to pile on here Freak, but I would agree with Mr. Jim that saying something like "I wish your kids had been the one who perished..." is a poor choice of words to say the least.

I think what you meant to say is, "if it had been your children who perished...".

You don't want to create any sympathy for him when he's trolling.

The man said what he meant and meant what he said, he is a big boy (figureatively) and can speak for himself. If he wants to make an ass of himself then let him.:cool:

[freakazoid]

I have been looking over Jim's shoulder at this argument all night. Being a Texas History buff, let's clear a few things up:

1) Texas NEVER lost a war to Mexico. If we had, we would ALL still be speaking Spanish. Get your facts straight.
a. Texas lost the Alamo (reinforcements never came to the Alamo from the United States, but we relied on the US?? :confused: ), but we kicked Santa Anna and Mexico's ass at the Battle of San Jacinto in 18 minutes. He was too busy screwing a 13 year old mulatto slave girl in his tent to see the Texians (no, that is not a typo) coming down the little hill to kick their asses. The Texians killed 700 Mexicans and lost only 9 of their men; more than double the amount of Texians the Mexicans killed at the Battle of the Alamo. The Texians also captured 700 more Mexicans, including Santa Anna. He was found hiding and dressed as a foot soldier. When they brought him near the captured Mexicans they all stood up and bowed, saying "El Presidente". Dumb asses!

2) Texas was not a separate nation before the Texas War for Independence. We were a part of Mexico. We did not want to be forced to be Catholic, speak Spanish, or pay outrageous taxes, so we rebelled.
b. Texas became a separate nation after WE whooped Mexico's collective asses into the ground. We were a nation for 9 years, 11 months, and 17 days. We then became a part of the United States after many US citizens continued to flock to Texas. We were annexed because we were sick of being the buffer zone between the US and Mexico. This is why the Mexican American War happened AFTER our annexation. Tensions had been strong

Before you spout off inaccuracies about my beloved state, get your damn facts straight. Nothing pisses me off more than someone pretending to sound intelligent about something they know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about.

promoIDIOT is no difference than any other liar, he vomits his lies and ignorance all over the forum and hopes no one sees through his bullshit for what it is. Much to the credit of most everyone on BS, virtually NO ONE believes a word he or his lying wife post. It is a positive thing that no one does.

[freakazoid]

I don't mean to pile on here Freak, but I would agree with Mr. Jim that saying something like "I wish your kids had been the one who perished..." is a poor choice of words to say the least.

I think what you meant to say is, "if it had been your children who perished...".

You don't want to create any sympathy for him when he's trolling.


RE: "if it had been your children who perished..."

Good point, Limbo.

My biggest problem, though, is that the drunk loser probably didn't get a word that I posted. He is so totally brain washed I strongly doubt that there is much hope for him at all. A very sad loser.

[freakazoid]

No arguments there. It's been a Friday night barfight between me and him all night long. But think about it, you're a Christian and you're (indirectly) threatening someone's family. WWJD?

WWJD?...have to think that one over, MJ.

__________________
And I quote Prometheus...


Originally Posted by Prometheus
"You would love to get rid of me wouldnt you you fucking piece of shit..... do it you fucking pussy.I didnt break not even one single rule, you would love a reason to get rid of me , you dont have one but this probly wont stop you, and banning me wont stop me either. You cant keep me out you piece of shit, go ahead and try. BS is nothing but straight up garbage now anyway. You fucking panderer."

[Prometheus]

Don't let me come near you Prometheus, or it won't end well for you. Look at those images Freak posted. One of those is to be expected if I ever run into you, you worthless piece of shit.

I thought you were nuts before, but now it is clear you are off your fucking rocker. Are you planning to bring the entire young republican club as back up??
I used to fuck bitches like you in prison. :rolleyes::D:eek:

[hitekredneck]

I thought you were nuts before, but now it is clear you are off your fucking rocker. Are you planning to bring the entire young republican club as back up??
I used to fuck bitches like you in prison. :rolleyes::D:eek:

something to really be proud of...tell me, do you plan on educating your kids this way?

[Prometheus]

something to really be proud of...tell me, do you plan on educating your kids this way?

He was talking about dismembering me, witch violate the TOS. What the hell do you expect me to say to him !?
1) I have never been to prison.
2) I have never had sex with a man.
3) Jokes are not funny if you have to explain them !:rolleyes:

[WhiteRaven]

Constitutionally it is Texas', and any state's right to secede from the united states, I doubt it would be that simple, though, as the last time a group of states exercised that right it ended up in a war.

[beelzebub]

Given that you are a AIDS infected homosexual sodomite, I bet that image turns you on, eh beelzeDUMB.

Not on your life FREAK, you're a hideous man all around. I bet your wife has to imagine that she is with someone else before she can fuck you.

[Renaschelle]

First:
I was reffering to 1846
Second:
No record or mention of the presence of a woman on the battlefield exists. Santa Anna's own officers,who later castigated his actions, never mentioned this allegation. The only evidence, and very weak at that, is a cryptic statement written by one of the Texans present: "Our victory was aided by Santa Anna's voluptuousness." One can read what he or she wants into that statement, with its very strange choice of a word -- at least with respect to its modern meanings. And this is generally where the junior high and high school textbooks end the story of the Battle of San Jacinto, with the end of the "'6 minutes of glory." But there is more, and it could be called, appropriately, the "90 minutes of gore." As the Texans routed the camp, many Mexican soldiers fled, filled with terror, toward the marshy terrain behind and to the north of the camp. Many of the Texans, filled with vengeance for the execution of so many of their number at the Alamo and Goliad, continued killing. Using their fired rifles as clubs until they broke at the breach, then picking up Mexican rifles, with bayonets, they continued the slaughter with blind hatred. Some Mexican soldiers, stumbling through the quagmire of the marshes in an attempt to get to the river and swim to safety, were shot and stabbed. Some fell, begged for mercy, crying "Me no Alamo! Me no Goliad!" The pleas went unheeded. The shallow water along the San Jacinto soon ran crimson. Houston and numerous other officers and men tried in vain to stop the senseless slaughter.

The story of Emily Morgan has been recorded in both Texas and Mexico's on records of the event. Texas, in fact, sent her to Santa Anna, because they knew he liked the little girls.

Once again, Texas never lost a war to Mexico, only battles.

RE: "As the Texans routed the camp, many Mexican soldiers fled, filled with terror, toward the marshy terrain behind and to the north of the camp. Many of the Texans, filled with vengeance for the execution of so many of their number at the Alamo and Goliad, continued killing."

This is what war is all about. What do you think war is about hugs, kisses, and hippies?? Give me a break!

If you are going to do research, maybe you should cite your sources instead of plagiarizing. It is a pretty pathetic attempt to pass something off as your own knowledge that you know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about. I find more than half of your quote on this website: https://www.samhoustonbsa.org/Home/Forms/SanJacintoBattle/San%20Jacinto%20Battleground.PDF See page 13 more specifically...

As a teacher, you have proven to me that you can't even properly research and cite your information. Leading me to believe you just copy everything you type to fit whatever crap you want to believe. In school, you would receive an F for your assignment. Shame on you for plagiarizing!

[MrJim]

I used to fuck bitches like you in prison.

There it is... PROOF that he's a closet homo!

[beelzebub]

As a teacher, you have proven to me that you can't even properly research and cite your information. Leading me to believe you just copy everything you type to fit whatever crap you want to believe. In school, you would receive an F for your assignment. Shame on you for plagiarizing!

Your not serious are you? :rolleyes: jeeze louise!

[Renaschelle]

Your not serious are you? :rolleyes: jeeze louise!

Yes, I am serious. If someone wants people to believe they are intelligent, they should a) know what they are talking about without having to look it up, or b) look up information and actually cite their sources and elaborate on what they are citing.

I was trying to prove a point that he lacks knowledge of Texas History and had to copy what someone else said in order to try to refute me without giving the web site any credit. We all know that he lacks knowledge of the subject but is trying to make people believe he does by copying and pasting random crap from a web site.

[freakazoid]

Not on your life FREAK, you're a hideous man all around. I bet your wife has to imagine that she is with someone else before she can fuck you.

Admit it, beelzeDUMB, it does, or you would not have posted it.

[freakazoid]

There it is... PROOF that he's a closet homo!

Ha! Yup, he's a fag, that is for sure! Imagine that, a gay boy married to a lesbian! Now that is a riot!

Although he has probably got it backwards; the truth is that he used to be fucked by bitches in prison.

LMAO-ROTF!!! :D:D


__________________
And I quote Prometheus...


Originally Posted by Prometheus and said to hitek (a Mod)
"You would love to get rid of me wouldnt you you fucking piece of shit..... do it you fucking pussy.I didnt break not even one single rule, you would love a reason to get rid of me , you dont have one but this probly wont stop you, and banning me wont stop me either. You cant keep me out you piece of shit, go ahead and try. BS is nothing but straight up garbage now anyway. You fucking panderer.

And...

Originally Posted by Prometheus
I thought you were nuts before, but now it is clear you are off your fucking rocker. Are you planning to bring the entire young republican club as back up?? I used to fuck bitches like you in prison. "

[beelzebub]

Yes, I am serious. If someone wants people to believe they are intelligent, they should a) know what they are talking about without having to look it up, or b) look up information and actually cite their sources and elaborate on what they are citing.

Ok teacher, just checking.



I was trying to prove a point that he lacks knowledge of Texas History and had to copy what someone else said in order to try to refute me without giving the web site any credit. We all know that he lacks knowledge of the subject but is trying to make people believe he does by copying and pasting random crap from a web site.

I just think your post was a bit .... er,... snippity ? :D The whole "shame on you" was a bit over the top on the uppity scale :p

[Renaschelle]

I just think your post was a bit .... er,... snippity ? :D The whole "shame on you" was a bit over the top on the uppity scale :p

Was it snippity? I couldn't tell. ;)

[beelzebub]

Was it snippity? I couldn't tell. ;)

What do you teach & how long have you been in the game?

BTW - Taught Bio, Chem and Physics for 10 years, got natioanlly board certified (AYA - Sci) and am now a teacher mentor.

[Renaschelle]

What do you teach & how long have you been in the game?

BTW - Taught Bio, Chem and Physics for 10 years, got natioanlly board certified (AYA - Sci) and am now a teacher mentor.

I've only taught for two years. I am certified to teach any subject from 4th through 8th grade. I have taught English, Language Arts (two separate subjects in Texas), and US History. Since I teach in a charter school, I can teach any subject taught in our school. So next year, I will be teaching AP US History, Sociology, English, and Language Arts. It is a ton of planning and knowing the school it is subject to change.

[beelzebub]

I've only taught for two years. I am certified to teach any subject from 4th through 8th grade. I have taught English, Language Arts (two separate subjects in Texas), and US History. Since I teach in a charter school, I can teach any subject taught in our school. So next year, I will be teaching AP US History, Sociology, English, and Language Arts. It is a ton of planning and knowing the school it is subject to change.

Kudos to you! Teaching is such a noble profession.

[Renaschelle]

Thank you :) It is definitely a career with a lot more intrinsic value than monetary value.

[Carrot]

Thank you :) It is definitely a career with a lot more intrinsic value than monetary value.

Solid holidays too.

[Renaschelle]

Solid holidays too.

It makes up for all of the overtime I don't get paid for. I go into work at 7:30 a.m. and work until 6:30 p.m. sometimes. I work through my lunch break, come home, take care of my daughter, and then work for about two more hours each night. I work about 8 hours total each weekend. So, in a given week I work between 63 and 83 hours a week. That is why teachers get all of those holidays off and paid for (well, some do, not all...you can choose to get your salary paid in a 10 month contract or a 12 month...you get paid more each month with a 10 month, but don't get summer pay).

[hitekredneck]

It makes up for all of the overtime I don't get paid for. I go into work at 7:30 a.m. and work until 6:30 p.m. sometimes. I work through my lunch break, come home, take care of my daughter, and then work for about two more hours each night. I work about 8 hours total each weekend. So, in a given week I work between 63 and 83 hours a week. That is why teachers get all of those holidays off and paid for (well, some do, not all...you can choose to get your salary paid in a 10 month contract or a 12 month...you get paid more each month with a 10 month, but don't get summer pay).

face it, mrsjim, you are in a noble profession with ignoble recompense...i'm still confused as to why teachers are so underpaid when everybody tends to scream how important education truly is...

[beelzebub]

It makes up for all of the overtime I don't get paid for. I go into work at 7:30 a.m. and work until 6:30 p.m. sometimes. I work through my lunch break, come home, take care of my daughter, and then work for about two more hours each night. I work about 8 hours total each weekend. So, in a given week I work between 63 and 83 hours a week. That is why teachers get all of those holidays off and paid for (well, some do, not all...you can choose to get your salary paid in a 10 month contract or a 12 month...you get paid more each month with a 10 month, but don't get summer pay).

God how I miss those holidays!

You are also in your first years of teaching. It gets easier later on unless you don't learn the tricks of the trade (which I am sure you will). I worked my ass off like you when I first started but about my 3rd or 4th year I worked from 7:30 am to 3:30pm and did very little work at home. I did about 2-4 hours every weekend though. Here are some tips:

1. Keep a planning journal for each subject you teach. This makes planning a breeze later on.
2. Keep everything you do on electronic file (no more paper files).
3. Keep box sets of activities stored and ready for use.
4. Laminate every paper manipulative you make (they last longer) and keep them in a box with their title on it.
5. When doing formative assessments do simple things like tickets out the door or observation logs.
6. Keep every letter for parents on file to be used or adapted later on.
7. Get emails of parents and send out batch reports to them once a semester.
8. Download and save each video you use on DVD or CD for use later on.
9. Find another teacher to collaborate with and split the work. You will be faster doing a couple of things than doing a variety of things all on your own.

You also have a lot of preps. Once you create year plans for each subject you teach it will be easier the next time.

[Renaschelle]

God how I miss those holidays!

You are also in your first years of teaching. It gets easier later on unless you don't learn the tricks of the trade (which I am sure you will). I worked my ass off like you when I first started but about my 3rd or 4th year I worked from 7:30 am to 3:30pm and did very little work at home. I did about 2-4 hours every weekend though. Here are some tips:

1. Keep a planning journal for each subject you teach. This makes planning a breeze later on.
2. Keep everything you do on electronic file (no more paper files).
3. Keep box sets of activities stored and ready for use.
4. Laminate every paper manipulative you make (they last longer) and keep them in a box with their title on it.
5. When doing formative assessments do simple things like tickets out the door or observation logs.
6. Keep every letter for parents on file to be used or adapted later on.
7. Get emails of parents and send out batch reports to them once a semester.
8. Download and save each video you use on DVD or CD for use later on.
9. Find another teacher to collaborate with and split the work. You will be faster doing a couple of things than doing a variety of things all on your own.

You also have a lot of preps. Once you create year plans for each subject you teach it will be easier the next time.

Thanks for the tips. I already do most of them, but the problem is I can't rely on what I did the year before. I may not be teaching that same subject again next year. This year I will be teaching 11th grade AP US History, HS Sociology, 2 sections of 7th grade English and 2 sections of 7th grade Language Arts, and 3 sections of 6th grade English. Last year I taught 4 sections of 7th grade English and 4 of 7th grade Language Arts. I will be teaching such a mixture of subjects that planning is extremely time consuming.

[beelzebub]

This year I will be teaching 11th grade AP US History, HS Sociology, 2 sections of 7th grade English and 2 sections of 7th grade Language Arts, and 3 sections of 6th grade English. Last year I taught 4 sections of 7th grade English and 4 of 7th grade Language Arts. I will be teaching such a mixture of subjects that planning is extremely time consuming.

What school is doing this to you? That's way too many preps especially with an AP course. No wonder you work as many hours as you do.... but you will come out golden after passing through that fire.

The most I taught was 5 (Biology, Chemistry, Integrated Science, Advanced Math and Computers-1) but that was when I was in Peace Corps and didn't have anything else to do. I cant fathom doing that now with kids.

You GO GIRL!

[Renaschelle]

What school is doing this to you? That's way too many preps especially with an AP course. No wonder you work as many hours as you do.... but you will come out golden after passing through that fire.

The most I taught was 5 (Biology, Chemistry, Integrated Science, Advanced Math and Computers-1) but that was when I was in Peace Corps and didn't have anything else to do. I cant fathom doing that now with kids.

You GO GIRL!

I teach at a charter school here in Fort Worth. We have grades K-11 next year. When the school opened, it was K-8. They add a grade level each year. Each grade level has between 2 and 4 sections each. The schedule is so strange compared to that of public school.

For example, last year, 7th grade had four sections: A, B, C, D. 'A' was the highly intelligent, high achievers (not necessarily GT). They switched classes all day together. The only class they didn't have all together was their foreign language. 'B' was the gifted class. These are the kids that 'think outside of the box'. They followed the same schedule. Now, 'C' and 'D' was a huge mixture. I had some extremely bright kids in both of the sections, with some really low functioning kids. However, they ability group them based on their science and math scores, not their reading scores. I had some kids reading on a 2nd grade level at the beginning of the year in a class with kids reading on a college level. They were in the 'average' class. It was hard to plan that class, but I pulled through as I will this coming school year.

Thanks for all your encouragement! :)

[Paisleyspeaker]

Renaschelle,

I don't think anyone who hasn't gone through years of college has had quoting sources and proper citing drilled into there heads the way any graduate has. Hell, every class I have taken has source citing and plagarism in the syllabus.

I have often though of teaching myself, not K-12 though college as adjunct faculity ( community colleges don't require you to be published)(one of my professors has been encouraging me to think about it) but I have another 4 years before I will be there. I only have my AA right now, but start again next month.

I had a high school teacher who had a great part-time job. He worked at one of the only liquor stores in town as a cashier. He knew who wasn't old enough to be there.

[beelzebub]

I have often though of teaching myself, not K-12 though college as adjunct faculity ( community colleges don't require you to be published)(one of my professors has been encouraging me to think about it) but I have another 4 years before I will be there. I only have my AA right now, but start again next month.

Believe it or not I teach Anatomy & Physiology at a 2 year college part time. My understanding of how they work is that you have to have at least a Masters in the subject area you teach in. There are universities that also don't require their Profs to publish and only a masters to teach.

But hell! Why are you worried? You write all the time on BS and it is good. Publishing is really no big deal. I have to write an article and get it published ever year for my full time job. Its easy because I write about the stuff I am into (Science Ed) you can do the same.