Abortion.. right or wrong

[yea_thats_right1]

Abortion should be a choice made by the two persons involved in making the baby, NOT a decision made by you and i or by the government. (Personally i dont think i could ever go through with it.) What right do you or i have that allows us to tell another human being what they can and cant do with their bodies?? For those of you hard core pro- life people.. heres a situation for you.... what if your 14 year old daughter was raped and got pregnant? would you have her carry the child and give birth to become a mother to a child she had no say in making? Have her be reminded of the rape everytime she looked into her childs eyes? Or what if she was raped by drunk uncle bubba? Is pregnancy by incest ok with you??
Abortions are going to happen from now untill the end of time. And for those women or girls who decide not to have a child, their unborns could possibly be saving cancer patients in the future.. My uncle died yesterday from cancer, his father and sister also died from cancer this year. So are you saying that you would like to put an end to something that can cure these people??? Or push women into getting abortions from doctors at the corner ally? Because if those old men and women in our government put a stop to any and all abortion thats what will happen.
Did you know that:

*male condoms are only 98% effective against pregnancy (and thats when used correctly!)
* female comdoms are only 79% effective
* oral contraception is 99% and most women forget to take the pill

So maybe we should just make sex illegal... and when you want to have a baby youll have to go to your doctor and have your mans sperm injected into you! And most heath insurance providers wont even cover the bill so i guess rich people will be the ones breeding, so all of our hard workers will die out and so will our race....But we wont ever have to worry about abortions again! So rally for a ban on sex if you want to get your point across.. or mind your own business :P

[ajk]

For those of you hard core pro- life people.. heres a situation for you.... what if your 14 year old daughter was raped and got pregnant? would you have her carry the child and give birth to become a mother to a child she had no say in making? Have her be reminded of the rape everytime she looked into her childs eyes? Or what if she was raped by drunk uncle bubba? Is pregnancy by incest ok with you??


No, but why beget violence with more violence?

[ajk]

Abortions are going to happen from now untill the end of time. And for those women or girls who decide not to have a child, their unborns could possibly be saving cancer patients in the future.. My uncle died yesterday from cancer, his father and sister also died from cancer this year. So are you saying that you would like to put an end to something that can cure these people??? Or push women into getting abortions from doctors at the corner ally? Because if those old men and women in our government put a stop to any and all abortion thats what will happen.


Not sure what you're getting at on this one. Care to explain?

[yea_thats_right1]

that ^ was written poorly i agree upon reading it through a few times...
What i was trying to get at is this, while abortion ,may be "bad" at least there is something good that can come of it, i.e. stem cell research. And another point i was trying to make was that if abortion was totally banned women would still have them. However it would be very dangerous as there would not be a doctors office to go to to have the abortion done. sorry for any confusion.. i was tired when i wrote that :)

[yea_thats_right1]

No, but why beget violence with more violence?

Are you saying that you would make your daughter keep the rapists child? I know that it isnt the babys fault, however what kind of life would that kid have? eventually the child will grow up and want to know where his daddy is and why he isnt around... and when you him that his dad raped his mom and left her for dead what kind of complex would the kid have then? And if you are thinking "Adoption" then heres another situation... when the kid grows up, and learns he is adopted... he will wonder why mommy didnt want to keep him then he will find out his father is a rapist and have an even bigger complex.... Why put the kid through that.... or anyone for that matter? It would be a never ending cycle of heartache.

[ajk]

Are you saying that you would make your daughter keep the rapists child? I know that it isnt the babys fault, however what kind of life would that kid have? eventually the child will grow up and want to know where his daddy is and why he isnt around... and when you him that his dad raped his mom and left her for dead what kind of complex would the kid have then? And if you are thinking "Adoption" then heres another situation... when the kid grows up, and learns he is adopted... he will wonder why mommy didnt want to keep him then he will find out his father is a rapist and have an even bigger complex.... Why put the kid through that.... or anyone for that matter? It would be a never ending cycle of heartache.

I understand what you are saying, but my take on it is that if she goes through with it and has the kid it might actually be a little easier to look back on the whole ordeal later. I say that because, let's say she had the abortion after the rape. As she grows older the memory of that rape will always be with her haunting her. Now that's not to say it wouldn't still be there if she had the kid. But the difference is she would be able to look at her son or daughter, knowing that even though it was a terrifying ordeal for her then, something good still came out of it in spite of that.

As far as the adoption thing goes, I would tend to think the kid would be grateful to his or her mom for at least giving him/her a chance to live.

[yea_thats_right1]

I understand what you are saying, but my take on it is that if she goes through with it and has the kid it might actually be a little easier to look back on the whole ordeal later. I say that because, let's say she had the abortion after the rape. As she grows older the memory of that rape will always be with her haunting her. Now that's not to say it wouldn't still be there if she had the kid. But the difference is she would be able to look at her son or daughter, knowing that even though it was a terrifying ordeal for her then, something good still came out of it in spite of that.



You better pray that she has the strength to be a 14 year old mom of a rapists kid. Thats a lot of weight and responsibility for a child to be a mother of a child. it may have worked in the old days but its 2006...

[ajk]

Well that's where the parents and family in general would step in though too. I'm sure they would do whatever they could to help her through the situation. She wouldn't be alone.

[yea_thats_right1]

what if she said she wanted to have an abortion? what would you do then?

[ajk]

I would talk to her about it, explain to her why I feel she should have the child, and that I would do whatever I could to help raise it.

[yea_thats_right1]

Why does your opinion matter? its her body.... And what if she still says she wants the abortion? you gonna lock her in the basement untill shes ready to pop?

[ajk]

But it's not her body though anymore, it's the body of another being another life. And if she did say she wanted to have the abortion still, I would continue to try and talk her out of it, letting her know I would be there to help and that she wouldn't be going through this alone.

[yea_thats_right1]

still her body.. theres just a baby in it... and if you couldnt get through to her and she continued to say she wanted it?

[ajk]

I wouldn't give up, I would do whatever I could to see that the baby is born. I would pray, do whatever I have to. I feel that I would be doing my duty as a father in that regard, making sure that my kid isn't going to do something I know she will regret in the future. She might not understand it then but if she had the kid, later in life she would know why I did what I did.

As far as the body argument, I again have to disagree. While the child is in her body yes, she has no right to say that another being should have to die, which is what she would be doing.

[yea_thats_right1]

then i feel sorry for any of your daughters who are impregnanted by a rapist or by incest... i will pray that the mother will be thinking clearly and veto your vote. Pushing your daughter into becoming a mother so early in life when she doesnt want to will only push you away and make her hate you. And assuming that she would regret HER decision that SHE made is ridiculous and absurd.

[ajk]

Again she may not understand it then, and she may hate me for it at the time, but I can guarantee you she would thank me later in life as that child grows and matures into an adult (God willing of course).

As far as the regretting thing goes, numerous studies have shown that when a woman has an abortion, she does regret it later. Even the ones that say it doesn't bother them what they did, deep down I can assure you it does. There's that empty feeling not to mention the guilt, of knowing your son or daughter isn't here because you killed it.

[yea_thats_right1]

For your sake i hope she does.

[ajk]

Trust me, I know what I'm talking about on this.

Incidentally, just to back up my point on depression here's a rather recent study on the effects of abortion:

Christchurch, New Zealand (LifeNews.com) 1/4/06-- A new study conducted in New Zealand finds women who have abortions are more likely to become severely depressed. The report confirms the results of a comprehensive study in 2004 in the U.S. showing abortion leads to a host of mental health problems.

The New Zealand study found that having an abortion as a young woman raises the risk of developing mental health problems such as depression and anxiety.

The findings come from the Christchurch Health and Development Study of 1265 children tracked since their birth in the 1970s.

Some 41 percent of the more than 500 women in the study became pregnant by the age of 25 and 90 women had abortions.

Some 42 percent of the women who had abortions had experienced major depression within the last four years. That's almost double the rate of women who never became pregnant. The risk of anxiety disorders also doubled.

According to the study, women who have abortions were twice as likely to drink alcohol at dangerous levels and three times as likely to be addicted to illegal drugs.

David Fergusson, who led the study, said the results show access to legal abortions is not necessarily good for women. He also said the study confirms abortions cause women mental health issue -- rather than alleviating them as abortion advocates claim.

Meanwhile, researchers at Bowling Green State University in 2004 examined data on nearly 11,000 women between the ages of 15 and 34 who had experienced an unintended pregnancy.

Their survey found that women who have abortions of unexpected pregnancies were 30 percent more likely to experience subsequent problems with anxiety than those who don't have one.

Women in the study who had abortions and suffered from general anxiety disorder experienced irritability, fatigue, difficulty sleeping, a pounding or racing heart, or feelings of unreality.

[yea_thats_right1]

That still does NOT give you the right to tell someone what they can and cant not do with their bodies. You are a man. You have no idea what its like being a woman. You do not have a uterus, You dont think like a woman (even if you believe that you do.. trust me you dont) and you dont have boobs. You have no right to tell another human being what they can do. Ive read one of your posts about abortion and what happened with your mom to make you think this way, and its understandable. But untill you are a woman put into that situation and have to think about what could happen... you can never really honestly have a fully formed factual personal opinion... get what im saying?? And what if the pregnancy could possible kill the mother before carrying it full term? Do you think she should die trying?

[ajk]

Just because I'm a guy doesn't mean I can't have a say in it. What about the dads too involved BTW. Do they not get a say in whether the child is born either? They get impacted by an abortion just as much as the woman does in the mental sense. Same goes for the rest of the family too. It's not just all about the woman and her rights. What about everyone else? They all get deprived of a unique human life because of the woman's right to "choose".

For the record about the thing with my mom, I would still feel the way I do even if my mom hadn't had an abortion before having me or thought about aborting me. It's the principle of the issue. Every single human life has value and should be treated with respect and dignity, not just tossed away like it's nothing.

As far as the mom possibly dying, first off there's always the chance she may survive the pregnancy, whereas if you have an abortion you can't just bring the child back. Yes it would be a tough thing I imagine, but I would consider it being the ultimate sacrifice, and the result would be for the greater good. The woman has had the chance to live her life, whereas the baby has not yet. Not only that but in a sense the woman becomes sort of like Jesus, in terms of dying for her child (possibly), and for that she would be rewarded eternally if she were to pass on I would think.

[yea_thats_right1]

so wait youre saying that if you found out your wife and unborn may die if she tried to carry full term you would say "hunny, you should try and if you both die atleast youll go to heaven!" ?????????????? I surely hope you make all of this known to your wife while you are dating so she can get out while she still can.

[ajk]

I really do feel that way. At that point to me, the life of the baby takes precedence since the woman has had a chance to live her life to a degree, but the baby hasn't.

[yea_thats_right1]

I also never said that the father of the child didnt have a say... both of the people involved in making the baby have the only say in the situation. However the would be "grandparents, uncles and aunts, brothers and sisters" shouldnt have any say in what happens.... its not their kid.

[yea_thats_right1]

I really do feel that way. At that point to me, the life of the baby takes precedence since the woman has had a chance to live her life to a degree, but the baby hasn't.



ok what if it was your 14 year old daughter who was raped.... has she really had a chance to live life???

[ajk]

I also never said that the father of the child didnt have a say... both of the people involved in making the baby have the only say in the situation. However the would be "grandparents, uncles and aunts, brothers and sisters" shouldnt have any say in what happens.... its not their kid.

Doesn't change the fact that they all lose out if the woman "chooses" to kill the child.

[ajk]

ok what if it was your 14 year old daughter who was raped.... has she really had a chance to live life???

That would be an unfortunate situation, but as I said there's no guarantee she'll die. How would you feel if she had an abortion, and later you find out she would have lived? Besides having the child serves the greater good, as opposed to killing it.

[yea_thats_right1]

I would NEVER take that chance with my child... EVER... and for you to just say, "oh well hunny i going to force you to have this baby and if you die or you both die doing it... at least i will feel better knowing i made you try!" is sick and i hope you dont have children. Your living breathing daughter should be a priority over an unborn child...

[ajk]

I think that would be selfish though really. At least give the baby a chance to experience the world we live in. That's why I feel it would be for the greater good to have the child, because then that person has the chance to form goals, dreams and follow them in the same way we all do. That's what life is about. "We the People under a more perfect union have a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"

It's not about forcing people to have babies either, it's just the simple principle of the matter. The womb should be the safest place a baby could ever be, not the most dangerous.

[yea_thats_right1]

and allow your daughter to die???? what if she was the one who could have changed to world and the baby turns out to be a murderer? what a pity... Bottom line... how could you as a parent knowingly send your child to the grave to serve your own purpose? Guess you wont really know untill you become a real woman and are faced with it first hand.

[ajk]

and allow your daughter to die???? what if she was the one who could have changed to world and the baby turns out to be a murderer? what a pity... Bottom line... how could you as a parent knowingly send your child to the grave to serve your own purpose? Guess you wont really know untill you become a real woman and are faced with it first hand.

I wouldn't be serving my purpose but God's purpose. Every child is created for a reason and deserves a right to live circumstances be damned. And again the daughter may survive you don't know. I would feel pretty bad if she had the abortion, only to find out she would have survived had she had the kid.

Also if she did die, would it be hard? Absolutely it would. But I know she would always be with me in spirit and be with me through the newborn baby.

[yea_thats_right1]

i pity your future children who will have a father that would send them to their death against their will.... you sound like you would be a dictating father.... just be sure to let any and all of your future girlfriends know all of this on the first date, because more than likely they will be running for the door and i will sleep better knowing that you wont have children to press your views on.

[ajk]

I would only do these things out of love, and because I know this is how God intended things to be. You can't tell me that kicking an unborn child to the curb is ok. It's not, no matter what the situation.

[yea_thats_right1]

you know... ive heard that "i only do these things out of love" line from fathers and men who beat the living crap out of their children and wives..... "kicking an unborn child to the curb" may be wrong but forcing someone to do something they dont want to do is wrong too and its even MORE wrong to force someone to keep a baby they dont want when DEATH is involved. Being a father is not about doing what you think God would want you to do its about unconditional love, and respecting the decisions THEY make... what is so hard to understand about that?

[ajk]

you know... ive heard that "i only do these things out of love" line from fathers and men who beat the living crap out of their children and wives..... "kicking an unborn child to the curb" may be wrong but forcing someone to do something they dont want to do is wrong too and its even MORE wrong to force someone to keep a baby they dont want when DEATH is involved. Being a father is not about doing what you think God would want you to do its about unconditional love, and respecting the decisions THEY make... what is so hard to understand about that?

First off what I said, and what you did on love are two different things. They are wrong for abuse, but I know in my heart I am not.

I beg to differ about the father thing. Being a good parent is knowing when to let them do something and knowing when not to let them do something. I feel abortion falls in the latter category. Why should I respect a decision I know is wrong when I can do something about it to stop it from happening? There are situations where you let them make a decision in such a case because they will learn from it in the end, but this is not one of those since it involves another life beyond that of the mother.

[yea_thats_right1]

so you will never let your children make their own decisions unless otherwise approved by you?? nor will you let them make their own mistakes so they can figure out who they are??? What kind of parent do you aspire to be anyway??

[ajk]

On some things I would let them make mistakes, since that is the only way they can learn. On abortion though, I would do all I can to make sure that the baby lives, and do what I can to help the girl through the process of raising the it. If it only affected her, I would let her make a mistake (depending on the situation), and learn from it. But because it would not only affect her, but another life also, I would not let that happen.

[yea_thats_right1]

i wish you the best of luck finding a woman who agrees with everything youve just said and my prayers are with any of your future children so that they might not have to find out that their dad would send them to death because of his own morals and not those of the child.

[yea_thats_right1]

and another thing... im not sure if we covered this one... What if your wife was raped and told that if she tried to carry full term she would die... would you still (try) to make her have the baby? and if so add top the list of things you should tell girls on first dates

[LordRuin]

Freedom before life, ALWAYS! FREEDOM! If you can't live free, I hope you got the intelligence and willpower to die free... not saying I could do this, but that is only because i don't have the willpower

If you are so pro-life go barricade a graveyard
Y: "You can't come in!"
X: "She was 90 years old! She died in her sleep"
Y: "There are options"
X: "What? Should we stuff her? What ya mean?"

Freak, I too hope you never have children, especially not daughters...

[General Septem]

The fact of the matter is, you cannot deliberately and directly kill a human being. It's that simple. Whatever else the circumstances may be, that's unfortunate. You can't fix any other problems or perceived problems by killing someone else, and this is no different. If you don't want a baby then adopt him.

[yea_thats_right1]

im sorry, do you have a uterus? NO soi you have no idea what it would be like to be a 14 year old mother by rape do you??? alright then shut it

[ohreally]

Trust me, I know what I'm talking about on this.

Apparently not - and why should we trust one who is obviously an extremist?

I mean you even defy condoms since it prevents sperm from obviously running its course - and believe that's abortion! It's not abortion you simple minded one. Do you think if you masterbate and waste sperm that it's aborting a child? NO! Why? Because the child never existed! So honestly how can we respect such a biased, restrictive, and cult-crazed opinion? Who are you to judge? Is that even your job? NO! You are some 19 virgin who is brainwashed to hell by none other than your parents probably! You need to realize that this country is not just Catholic. It's about FREEDOM! Get it through your skull! What you’re trying to do is override what this country stands for, and dominate it with your own damn values - well all I can say is dream on!

[ajk]

All I will say is, if it's wrong to defend what is right, then I am guilty.

[ajk]

im sorry, do you have a uterus? NO soi you have no idea what it would be like to be a 14 year old mother by rape do you??? alright then shut it

This is not about that, it's the principle plain and simple.

[ohreally]

All I will say is, if it's wrong to defend what is right, then I am guilty.
It may be right to you and your own culture - but don't automatically tell other people how it is - because it just doesn't work that way nor shall it.

[ajk]

There are certain things in this world that if we want to be truly free, we cannot by any means compromise for any reason. Human life is one of those things.

[General Septem]

im sorry, do you have a uterus? NO soi you have no idea what it would be like to be a 14 year old mother by rape do you??? alright then shut it

Have you ever been killed? Then you shut it.

[yea_thats_right1]

ok so if killing a bunch of clumped up cells 3 weeks old is wrong... then i think that you would also have to agree that removing tumors is wrong as well... oh and so are periods, showers, exfoliation, brushing your teeth, mowing your lawn, eating meat or any other food for that matter.... all of these things must be murder because they are all just cells... right?

[ajk]

Wrong, those other things you mentioned are not human lives by any means of the word. This "clump of cells" as you put it, is a life.

[General Septem]

ok so if killing a bunch of clumped up cells 3 weeks old is wrong... then i think that you would also have to agree that removing tumors is wrong as well... oh and so are periods, showers, exfoliation, brushing your teeth, mowing your lawn, eating meat or any other food for that matter.... all of these things must be murder because they are all just cells... right?

We're all just cells. What differentiates killing a human being (born or unborn) from "just killing cells" is that those cells you are killing is someone's entire body.

What differentiates it from eating food is that animals are not subject to the inalienable human right to life. Furthermore, at three weeks a human fetus is a lot more than a clump of cells, even to a casual observer.

I assume (and hope) you are not a mother.

[yea_thats_right1]

i am a mother and i will tell you right now if my daughter were to get pregnant at 14 (unwillingly, and by that i mean rape) i would NEVER force her to have the baby if she did not want to.... That my dear friend is WRONG... no one should be forced to do something they dont want to do because of someone elses morals.

[ajk]

Alright let me ask you this then, what if she has sex on her own and gets pregnant, what would you do then?

[General Septem]

i am a mother and i will tell you right now if my daughter were to get pregnant at 14 (unwillingly, and by that i mean rape) i would NEVER force her to have the baby if she did not want to.... That my dear friend is WRONG... no one should be forced to do something they dont want to do because of someone elses morals.

I'm not talking about forcing anyone into anything, I'm talking about not allowing countless millions to be murdered. I'm an anarchist, but just because I don't believe in laws doesn't mean I don't think abortion is wrong. Mind you I think people should do the right thing, but not because it's the law, but because it's for the good of society. Mass murder is never good for society.

[yea_thats_right1]

i would encourage her to think about it and talk about it, and let her make her own choice. I do not have the right to decide for her, i can only offer her love& support and respect whatever decision she makes.

[General Septem]

i would encourage her to think about it and talk about it, and let her make her own choice. I do not have the right to decide for her, i can only offer her love& support and respect whatever decision she makes.

You don't have the right? You're her mother. You can do whatever you want. If you had a spine and really cared about right and wrong, you'd smack her across the face if she even considered abortion.

If your daughter wanted to take a submachine gun to school and blow a hundred people away, would you respect that decision?

[yea_thats_right1]

I'm not talking about forcing anyone into anything, I'm talking about not allowing countless millions to be murdered. I'm an anarchist, but just because I don't believe in laws doesn't mean I don't think abortion is wrong. Mind you I think people should do the right thing, but not because it's the law, but because it's for the good of society. Mass murder is never good for society.


then why not help the unborns by providing better information for women and teens about where they can get help to support their familys? Make welfare better or something.... most mothers who decide to keep an unwated pregnancy go on welfare, and then people bitch about people living off of the government.... either way women are going to take crap from people who think they know what is right and wrong...........

[ajk]

i would encourage her to think about it and talk about it, and let her make her own choice. I do not have the right to decide for her, i can only offer her love& support and respect whatever decision she makes.

See to me I disagree with that. The reason why is by having the baby she learns what can happen if she doesn't take care of herself, and becomes careless in her ways. Ergo she becomes smarter for the experience and more then likely will think twice before repeating those same mistakes in the future.

On the other hand if she has an abortion she learns nothing at all, except that she can do whatever she wants as long as it's good for her, with no worries about consequences at all. No consequences= no real life IMO.

[yea_thats_right1]

You don't have the right? You're her mother. You can do whatever you want. If you had a spine and really cared about right and wrong, you'd smack her across the face if she even considered abortion.

If your daughter wanted to take a submachine gun to school and blow a hundred people away, would you respect that decision?



Ok so abuse is ok with you but abortion isnt??? LOL pick a side damnit!
And of course i wouldnt, thats ridiculus... she prolly wouldnt be able to lift that damn gun!

[General Septem]

then why not help the unborns by providing better information for women and teens about where they can get help to support their familys? Make welfare better or something.... most mothers who decide to keep an unwated pregnancy go on welfare, and then people bitch about people living off of the government.... either way women are going to take crap from people who think they know what is right and wrong...........

We're doing that. Ever hear of a crisis pregnancy center?

[yea_thats_right1]

See to me I disagree with that. The reason why is by having the baby she learns what can happen if she doesn't take care of herself, and becomes careless in her ways. Ergo she becomes smarter for the experience and more then likely will think twice before repeating those same mistakes in the future.

On the other hand if she has an abortion she learns nothing at all, except that she can do whatever she wants as long as it's good for her, with no worries about consequences at all. No consequences= no real life IMO.

Hey im all for letting people make mistakes so they can learn from them... trust me... but i wouldnt take that chance with my prctically pre- teen daughter... sorry!

[ajk]

Hey im all for letting people make mistakes so they can learn from them... trust me... but i wouldnt take that chance with my prctically pre- teen daughter... sorry!

And why not may I ask? Would you rather her continue to have sex then and get an STD or worse?

[General Septem]

Ok so abuse is ok with you but abortion isnt??? LOL pick a side damnit!

I think you don't understand the difference between abuse and teaching. I'm not talking about beating your children every time they do something wrong, I'm talking about instilling the gravity of their actions. There is a difference.



And of course i wouldnt, thats ridiculus... she prolly wouldnt be able to lift that damn gun!

Well it's not any damn different than abortion, except it's a hundred people instead of one.

And she probably would. SMGs are pretty small, just a step up from an automatic pistol really.

[ajk]

Ok so abuse is ok with you but abortion isnt??? LOL pick a side damnit!
And of course i wouldnt, thats ridiculus... she prolly wouldnt be able to lift that damn gun!

If you wouldn't let her do that, then why let her do this? Wrong is wrong no matter how you look at it.

[yea_thats_right1]

We're doing that. Ever hear of a crisis pregnancy center?


acctualy no i havent, and most women dont know what to do.. this subject needs to be more out and about so that every woman/ teen knows their options... maybe that would help cut down the abortion rate.... But there are still those people who have their own oppinions just like i do. Personaly i would more than likely never ever have an abortion... to me, personally in my life, that would never be an option open for me... but i cant tell millions of women in america that my opinion is the right one for them. get what im trying to say?

[ajk]

I understand but, if you know how bad it is then why not use your knowledge to educate others so they don't make the mistake that so many women do today?

[General Septem]

acctualy no i havent, and most women dont know what to do.. this subject needs to be more out and about so that every woman/ teen knows their options... maybe that would help cut down the abortion rate....

We're doing what we can. I agree that we should do more though. That doesn't make abortion less wrong.



But there are still those people who have their own oppinions just like i do. Personaly i would more than likely never ever have an abortion... to me, personally in my life, that would never be an option open for me... but i cant tell millions of women in america that my opinion is the right one for them. get what im trying to say?

Yes, I understand fully. You think it's wrong but don't have enough of a spine to stand up for what you believe in.

OK, I don't understand in the least. You wouldn't do it yourself, so apparently you think it's wrong... but you'd let someone else do it, so you don't think it's wrong. Well which is it?

[yea_thats_right1]

Then do it... use your knowledge and help others understand what options they would have being a poor unwed mother... but do it in a way so you dont seem like youre looking down on them and telling them how sick they are.... offer it in a way so it seems like youre happy to help them without seeming self rightious... im against the crazy pro-lifers who throw fetuses at women outside of abortion clinics... What is that teaching??

[ajk]

Well that's we are attempting to do. We can't help it if there are some who may take it too far. Obviously doing something such as throwing a fetus at a woman outside a clinic, is not right and isn't something God would approve of. But for people like that, there are those who speak the truth and teach it in a loving manner.

[yea_thats_right1]

We're doing what we can. I agree that we should do more though. That doesn't make abortion less wrong.




Yes, I understand fully. You think it's wrong but don't have enough of a spine to stand up for what you believe in.

OK, I don't understand in the least. You wouldn't do it yourself, so apparently you think it's wrong... but you'd let someone else do it, so you don't think it's wrong. Well which is it?


Ok see how youre saying i dont have a spine?? Thats why people dont listen to pro-lifers... Instead of cutting people down put your energy in voicing your opinion respectfully..... And as far as"which is it" I am pro choice... I believe that evryone has a choice to do whatever they want... I made the CHOICE to be pro choice.... and i believe everyone has the right to be pro life or pro choice just like we have the right to be democrat or republican.

[General Septem]

And as far as"which is it" I am pro choice... I believe that evryone has a choice to do whatever they want... I made the CHOICE to be pro choice.... and i believe everyone has the right to be pro life or pro choice just like we have the right to be democrat or republican.

That was not my question. My question was: Do you think abortion is right or wrong?

If you think it's wrong, why let others do it? And if you think it's right, why would you yourself not do it?

[yea_thats_right1]

That was not my question. My question was: Do you think abortion is right or wrong?

If you think it's wrong, why let others do it? And if you think it's right, why would you yourself not do it?

I think abortion should be decided on by the two parties involved. If you dont think abortion is right for you, Then dont do it. If you think abortion is what is right for you, then do it.

[ajk]

I believe that evryone has a choice to do whatever they want... I made the CHOICE to be pro choice.... and i believe everyone has the right to be pro life or pro choice just like we have the right to be democrat or republican.

Well if you think that, then understand that the society we live in today with all it's immorality and murder is something we brought on ourselves by creating this mob rules "if it's good for me, it's ok" mentality.

Incidentally, you never did answer my question about your daughter. Would you rather have her have the child and learn about responsibility and consequences, or learn nothing and continue to sleep around, until she gets an STD or worse?

[yea_thats_right1]

i would rather her learn responsibility, and she would do that by making her own decision in what to do in the matter and living with the result.

[ajk]

So basically you would let her suffer if she chose to have an abortion then, and end up being depressed as her life goes on.

Letting her do what she wants isn't responsibilty really. She made the decision already, why doesn't she have to live with it now, rather then later?

[General Septem]

I think abortion should be decided on by the two parties involved. If you dont think abortion is right for you, Then dont do it. If you think abortion is what is right for you, then do it.

That's the wishy-washiest damn answer I've ever heard. Either something's right or it's not... or do you not believe that?

Tell you what, I'm going to believe 2+2=5 from now on. And what's more, I'm going to use that arithmetic to create a device that'll malfunction if not programmed correctly, and will probably kill people. But that's my perogative because for me, 2+2=5 and that's right for me.

That doesn't make any sense either, does it?

Oh, I'm sorry Mrs. Kennedy, I know your entire family was murdered in front of your eyes, but we can't do anything about it because the killer didn't believe what he was doing was wrong, and we don't want to impose our beliefs on him. In fact, if he wants to kill you, that's his choice as well. You're free to protect yourself if you do not wish to die, even though since you're in a wheelchair there's probably not much you can do. Have a nice day.

[yea_thats_right1]

i guess so... just as she would suffer from depression from being a 14 year old kid who is trying to raise a kid.

[ajk]

i guess so... just as she would suffer from depression from being a 14 year old kid who is trying to raise a kid.

Not if you help her raise it and bring it up for the first few years or so. Besides that she brought it on herself, and having the child is called a consequence of that action. She made the decision, and now she has to own up to or live with the consequences of that decision.

[General Septem]

i would rather her learn responsibility, and she would do that by making her own decision in what to do in the matter and living with the result.

So if she decided to go into school with an SMG and kill a hundred people you'd let her?

See you keep saying things like this but you keep trapping yourself.

[yea_thats_right1]

That's the wishy-washiest damn answer I've ever heard. Either something's right or it's not... or do you not believe that?

Tell you what, I'm going to believe 2+2=5 from now on. And what's more, I'm going to use that arithmetic to create a device that'll malfunction if not programmed correctly, and will probably kill people. But that's my perogative because for me, 2+2=5 and that's right for me.

That doesn't make any sense either, does it?

Oh, I'm sorry Mrs. Kennedy, I know your entire family was murdered in front of your eyes, but we can't do anything about it because the killer didn't believe what he was doing was wrong, and we don't want to impose our beliefs on him. In fact, if he wants to kill you, that's his choice as well. You're free to protect yourself if you do not wish to die, even though since you're in a wheelchair there's probably not much you can do. Have a nice day.



so being pro-choice is wishy washy? ha ok......

[General Septem]

so being pro-choice is wishy washy? ha ok......

It is, and if you'd bothered to read the rest of my post you'd understand why.

[yea_thats_right1]

So if she decided to go into school with an SMG and kill a hundred people you'd let her?

See you keep saying things like this but you keep trapping yourself.


She would be taking resposibility for her choice.. if she chose to have the baby or not she would be responsible for the reault.... And no would talk her out of mass murder, but there is a diffrence in killing someone in cold blood and having an abortion... abortions are primarily done, not as an act of malice, but because of emotional issues or heath issues, money issues whatever.... its not done to directly inflict pain on the unborn, as mass murder would be, or to fufill a sick plan for revenge on the fetus... two diffrent things

[yea_thats_right1]

It is, and if you'd bothered to read the rest of my post you'd understand why.


i did and i see what your getting at but dont agree with it

[ajk]

She would be taking resposibility for her choice.. if she chose to have the baby or not she would be responsible for the reault.... And no would talk her out of mass murder, but there is a diffrence in killing someone in cold blood and having an abortion... abortions are primarily done, not as an act of malice, but because of emotional issues or heath issues, money issues whatever.... its not done to directly inflict pain on the unborn, as mass murder would be, or to fufill a sick plan for revenge on the fetus... two diffrent things

Doesn't change the fact that is murder, regardless of the reasons for it. And again I ask you why not have her take responsibilty now? She made the choice when she had sex, so why shouldn't she be responsible for the result of that choice?

[General Septem]

She would be taking resposibility for her choice.. if she chose to have the baby or not she would be responsible for the reault.... And no would talk her out of mass murder, but there is a diffrence in killing someone in cold blood and having an abortion... abortions are primarily done, not as an act of malice, but because of emotional issues or heath issues, money issues whatever.... its not done to directly inflict pain on the unborn, as mass murder would be, or to fufill a sick plan for revenge on the fetus... two diffrent things

Oh, I'm sorry Mrs. Kennedy, I know you and your family are dead and all, but there's nothing we can do about it. See, the killer didn't do anything wrong... he only killed you because of emotional or health issues, and not out of malice. Have a good day.

[yea_thats_right1]

Doesn't change the fact that is murder, regardless of the reasons for it. And again I ask you why not have her take responsibilty now? She made the choice when she had sex, so why shouldn't she be responsible for the result of that choice?


well then we should rally to ban sex and porn.... oh and boobs... cut off penis' and sew up vaginas and grow babies in tubes... This would solve all of this...

[ajk]

We're not animals here. Just because it's accessible doesn't make it right, nor do we have to act on what our bodies tell us. It's called self control.

[yea_thats_right1]

We're not animals here. Just because it's accessible doesn't make it right, nor do we have to act on what our bodies tell us. It's called self control.


And you have self control over everything in your life? ha

[General Septem]

well then we should rally to ban sex and porn.... oh and boobs... cut off penis' and sew up vaginas and grow babies in tubes... This would solve all of this...

Well if we just wiped out the whole planet we wouldn't have to worry about murder either, everyone'd be dead.

[ajk]

Hey I never said I'm perfect, but that's not what we're discussing here. All I'm saying is, if we want to bad enough, we can control ourselves. That's what the brain is for to start with. So that we can think with our heads, not our bodies. The mind can be a wonderful thing if you use it properly.

[yea_thats_right1]

your right!