My arguments against Christianity

[Ausinus]

I have several problems with Christianity

1) If god is so omnipotent and omniscient then why would it create us? We are flawed, we lie, we cheat, we gossip. So surely wouldn't such a powerful god create beings that were perfect?:confused:
2)Why does god need our prayers? Again, it is omniscient, so it knows what we say before we say it. Also, how does putting our hands together and ratting on to god change our fate when our omnipotent and omniscient god has set our fate in stone?
3)Why would such a loving god create a place such as hell? It sounds to me like its creation of us is flawed so it blames us for its mistakes!:mad:
4)Is god a sadist? Why else would the punishment for every crime be death by stoning? Does it get off on our pain?
5)God is supposedly 'perfect'. Perfect beings are devoid of negative emotions. To quote exodus "I am a JEALOUS god". Also, perfect beings dont make mistakes (i.e: satan, us and the earth in general)
6) How does god, the holy spirit and jesus somehow manage so be the same and seperate things at one time? Must be efficient time management.
7)Jesus coming down to earth and dying for "us" somehow doesn't count as people still need to acheive salvation through conversion and the sacraments.
8)The Bible is not the big book of everything. The words therein are not the ultimate truth of the universe. In fact, it is the big book of fiction.
9)God seems to be lazy. Back in the old days there were tons of miracles, and now we cant even squeeze a measly water to wine out of god.
10)Punishments: Murder; Death, Theft; Death, Assault; Death, Pickpocketing; Death, Vandalism; Death, Divorce; Death. Surely this cannot be the law of such a "loving" god.
11) The "good book" seems to advocate slavery, infanticide, manslaughter, rape and kidnapping.
13) Christian Science is an oxymoron. Faith is belief without evidence. Science is evidence based on observations.
14) The stars are not set in anything, and why did god make the sun and stars if he already had light?
15)Fundy Christians condemn people of all other faiths. What happened to "love thy neighbour"?
16) Amazingly, hell is a place where god doesnt exist, yet god exists everywhere. Am i missing something here?:confused:
17) Murder applies to killing a living human being, yet abortion is killing a 'potential human life'. Therefore, abortion is not murder.
18)Homosexuals are people too, just like you and me. Their actions do not detriment anyone. So leave them alone.
19)Why is jesus always white? Wasnt he jewish?
21) So the earth was created in 6000BC? Wow then, what the hell are all those buildings in the middle east then?
22)So god made the birds and the animals, then skipped to humans? What happened to the dinosaurs?

Yes I am atheist and no Atheism is not a religion.

[England Expects]

That about sums it up!

[who897]

You forgot about the burning bush. Which means STD's are good things to these people. So why don't they have unprotected sex like minks?

[England Expects]

They do have unprotected sex, mainly because Pope JP II said he didnt see the need for contraception.

But then again, why would an 80 year old Polish bloke in a big white dress see the need for a condom?

[General Septem]

I have several problems with Christianity

1) If god is so omnipotent and omniscient then why would it create us? We are flawed, we lie, we cheat, we gossip. So surely wouldn't such a powerful god create beings that were perfect?:confused:

We were created perfect. God made man in His image and likeness. Then God split this man, took something away from him. He created a woman out of this part. This is why marriage is so special, because when a man and a woman come together and form one flesh, what was separated is joined together again and we become God's image and likeness again.

Unfortunately marriage is being walked all over by total dumbasses.

Part of being perfect is that we also have free will to choose right or wrong. If we just did what was right because we had no choice, it wouldn't really mean anything, now, would it?


2)Why does god need our prayers? Again, it is omniscient, so it knows what we say before we say it. Also, how does putting our hands together and ratting on to god change our fate when our omnipotent and omniscient god has set our fate in stone?

God has not decided our fate. Only we can do that. Free will, remember? Yes, God knows what we want before we say it, but by praying it brings our minds back to God.


3)Why would such a loving god create a place such as hell? It sounds to me like its creation of us is flawed so it blames us for its mistakes!:mad:

Hell is not just some place that was created as eternal punishment. It is where people go when they choose of their own free will to be separate from God. Without God there is no enjoyment, no blessings, no love.


4)Is god a sadist? Why else would the punishment for every crime be death by stoning? Does it get off on our pain?

Let the man who has never sinned cast the first stone. Leviticus says that certain crimes deserve punishment by death, but Jesus tells us that nobody is qualified to make that judgment. As it pertains to us, the purpose of verses such as "if X does Y it is an abomination; stone X" is merely to enstill just how serious these crimes are, and that those who casually, repetitively, and unrepentantly commit these crimes are damaging society and have no place there.


5)God is supposedly 'perfect'. Perfect beings are devoid of negative emotions. To quote exodus "I am a JEALOUS god". Also, perfect beings dont make mistakes (i.e: satan, us and the earth in general)

God's jealousy in this context is not the same as what we might think of jealousy. First off, jealousy is believing oneself to be superior to another and that you deserve something, not them, and in God's case He would be right as God is superior to everything else.

Satan was also created perfect, with the same free will that we were all given. He was not a "mistake" nor were any of us. If God had it to do over again He would.


6) How does god, the holy spirit and jesus somehow manage so be the same and seperate things at one time? Must be efficient time management.

Think of it like a triangle.


7)Jesus coming down to earth and dying for "us" somehow doesn't count as people still need to acheive salvation through conversion and the sacraments.

People need to accept that salvation, not just take it for granted. "Just as the bronze serpent was raised in the desert, so the Son of Man will be raised before the world, and all who look up to Him will be saved." (I'm quoting from memory but you get the idea.)

The Sacrements are not just something that has to be done in order to receieve salvation, but it also meant for our fulfillment here on this earth. The Sacrements are a vessel through which God manifests Himself in the world.


8)The Bible is not the big book of everything. The words therein are not the ultimate truth of the universe. In fact, it is the big book of fiction.

Supposition.


9)God seems to be lazy. Back in the old days there were tons of miracles, and now we cant even squeeze a measly water to wine out of god.

Gee, I see miracles every day.


10)Punishments: Murder; Death, Theft; Death, Assault; Death, Pickpocketing; Death, Vandalism; Death, Divorce; Death. Surely this cannot be the law of such a "loving" god.

You already said that. Scroll up.


11) The "good book" seems to advocate slavery, infanticide, manslaughter, rape and kidnapping.

Yes, unless you actually read it.


13) Christian Science is an oxymoron. Faith is belief without evidence. Science is evidence based on observations.

Useless argument.


14) The stars are not set in anything, and why did god make the sun and stars if he already had light?

What the hell are you talking about?


15)Fundy Christians condemn people of all other faiths. What happened to "love thy neighbour"?

Human error. A true follower of Christ does not judge. I do not judge anyone, and I do love my neighbor.


16) Amazingly, hell is a place where god doesnt exist, yet god exists everywhere. Am i missing something here?:confused:

The only place which is separated from God is refered to often in the Bible as "death". It is not likely that the death of one's soul would be included in any kind of description of where God resides. God does exist everywhere; but the souls in Hell are separated from God.


17) Murder applies to killing a living human being, yet abortion is killing a 'potential human life'. Therefore, abortion is not murder.

Unborn babies are already living human beings, and anyone who knows anything about biology will tell you the same. They may argue that it is not an individual, but that is not up for debate as it makes no difference.


18)Homosexuals are people too, just like you and me. Their actions do not detriment anyone. So leave them alone.

I have nothing against the people. I love the people, but hate the sin.


19)Why is jesus always white? Wasnt he jewish?

You call that an argument against Christianity? Sounds like you're nit-picking to me.


21) So the earth was created in 6000BC? Wow then, what the hell are all those buildings in the middle east then?

Where does it say that?


22)So god made the birds and the animals, then skipped to humans? What happened to the dinosaurs?

Who the hell knows? We have palentology books for that.


Yes I am atheist and no Atheism is not a religion.

Theism = religion. It's a belief regarding the existence of a God, your belief just happens to be that He does not exist.

[who897]

I wouldn't even wipe my own ass with a reply like that, it's garbage.

[Ausinus]

We were created perfect. God made man in His image and likeness. Then God split this man, took something away from him. He created a woman out of this part. This is why marriage is so special, because when a man and a woman come together and form one flesh, what was separated is joined together again and we become God's image and likeness again.

So god is like a hermaphrodite then? And that something was a rib. OH MY GOD ALL WOMEN ARE SKELETONS!AHH!



Part of being perfect is that we also have free will to choose right or wrong. If we just did what was right because we had no choice, it wouldn't really mean anything, now, would it?

I dunno what dictionary your reading but doing bad is not perfect.


God has not decided our fate. Only we can do that. Free will, remember? Yes, God knows what we want before we say it, but by praying it brings our minds back to God.

Then why do we need to say it again? Does god like wasting our time?



Hell is not just some place that was created as eternal punishment. It is where people go when they choose of their own free will to be separate from God. Without God there is no enjoyment, no blessings, no love.

Im without god and I enjoy and love.


Let the man who has never sinned cast the first stone. Leviticus says that certain crimes deserve punishment by death, but Jesus tells us that nobody is qualified to make that judgment. As it pertains to us, the purpose of verses such as "if X does Y it is an abomination; stone X" is merely to enstill just how serious these crimes are, and that those who casually, repetitively, and unrepentantly commit these crimes are damaging society and have no place there.

Leviticus says this, and Jesus says that? IM CONFUSED! That makes it sound like god is fickle.


God's jealousy in this context is not the same as what we might think of jealousy. First off, jealousy is believing oneself to be superior to another and that you deserve something, not them, and in God's case He would be right as God is superior to everything else.

Yet he couldn't overcome iron chariots (Judges 1:19) USE IRON CHARIOTS


Satan was also created perfect, with the same free will that we were all given. He was not a "mistake" nor were any of us. If God had it to do over again He would.

Satan is the prechristian spirit of pleasure. Next to nothing in christianity is original


Think of it like a triangle.

Ok then, Senior, JUnior and Spook. But it doesnt explain how they are the same.


People need to accept that salvation, not just take it for granted. "Just as the bronze serpent was raised in the desert, so the Son of Man will be raised before the world, and all who look up to Him will be saved." (I'm quoting from memory but you get the idea.)

And if they dont accept that salvation they are damned? So jesus died to save everyone and if they dont accept it they are damned. Jesus fucked up big time.


The Sacrements are not just something that has to be done in order to receieve salvation, but it also meant for our fulfillment here on this earth. The Sacrements are a vessel through which God manifests Himself in the world.

So god is Baptism, Confirmation, COnfession, COmmunion, Mariage, Becoming a priest and extreme unction?


Supposition.

No more than the supposition that the bible is true.

Gee, I see miracles every day.

Like What?



Yes, unless you actually read it.[QUOTE]

Excuse you, i have read it.

[QUOTE]What the hell are you talking about?

Genesis. GOd had light, why did he need the sun and stars?


Human error. A true follower of Christ does not judge. I do not judge anyone, and I do love my neighbor.

Youre judging me right now.


The only place which is separated from God is refered to often in the Bible as "death". It is not likely that the death of one's soul would be included in any kind of description of where God resides. God does exist everywhere; but the souls in Hell are separated from God.

Ok, but it doesnt answer the question


Unborn babies are already living human beings, and anyone who knows anything about biology will tell you the same. They may argue that it is not an individual, but that is not up for debate as it makes no difference.

Everything is up for debate. It is the beauty of the science.


I have nothing against the people. I love the people, but hate the sin.

So you hate homosexuality but love homosexuals? -_-??


Where does it say that?

Creationist theory. This page is about Christianity in general


Who the hell knows? We have palentology books for that.

Its cos evolution is true.


Theism = religion. It's a belief regarding the existence of a God, your belief just happens to be that He does not exist.

WRONG. Theism = Belief in a god from the greek Theos which means god.

[ajk]

.
14) The stars are not set in anything, and why did god make the sun and stars if he already had light?


I'll field this one. The Sun was created as something that signifies when light begins and ends each day. As for the stars, something had to be done to make the darkness a bit less dark, therefore the moon and the stars filled that need.

[ajk]

[QUOTE=Ausinus]
Youre judging me right now.
[QUOTE]

No he isn't, he's only judging the acts and beliefs he sees as wrong, not you as a person.

[Ausinus]

I'll field this one. The Sun was created as something that signifies when light begins and ends each day. As for the stars, something had to be done to make the darkness a bit less dark, therefore the moon and the stars filled that need.

Hmm, errors.

-Sun generates the light, not signify its start and end.
-Sun is a star
-Moon does not generate light it reflects sunlight
-Darkness cannot be made less dark, as it is not a thing or a force.

Unless the sun orbits the earth and the earth is flat?

[General Septem]

So god is like a hermaphrodite then? And that something was a rib. OH MY GOD ALL WOMEN ARE SKELETONS!AHH!

No, God is not a "hermaphrodite". And that something is said to have been a rib, but anyone who understands literature will tell you that the rib is symbolic of more than that. It would be like a soldier raising the American flag in another territory. Meaningless unless you remember that this flag symbolizes our country. Besides, it's also been said that "rib" is not an adequate translation of the original word.



I dunno what dictionary your reading but doing bad is not perfect.

Perfect creations don't always exhibit perfect behaviour. But we are perfect creations because we can make that choice for ourselves. Have you ever seen A Clockwork Orange?


Then why do we need to say it again? Does god like wasting our time?

No, but God like any parent likes talking and listening to us.



Im without god and I enjoy and love.

Then you are not without God. God is everywhere. It would be like a hundred or more years ago when someone said there exists something called "oxygen", and someone unbelieving of oxygen were to say "I'm without oxygen yet I breathe".


Leviticus says this, and Jesus says that? IM CONFUSED! That makes it sound like god is fickle.

There's no contradiction. Jesus didn't say they shouldn't be stoned for their crimes, He just said no human should be the one to do it because none of us are any better than the other.


Satan is the prechristian spirit of pleasure. Next to nothing in christianity is original

We don't get judged on originality, we are judged for how right we are. And Satan is diametrically opposed to any kind of pleasure. Satan is incapable of pleasure. Pleasure comes from God alone.


Ok then, Senior, JUnior and Spook. But it doesnt explain how they are the same.

Just because you're too shallow to understand it doesn't make it not true.


And if they dont accept that salvation they are damned? So jesus died to save everyone and if they dont accept it they are damned. Jesus fucked up big time.

What did you expect, for Jesus to just come and fix all of our problems without any of us having to do anything? Did you think we should just be able to go on destroying the world and destroying society and still receive salvation without repentance?


So god is Baptism, Confirmation, COnfession, COmmunion, Mariage, Becoming a priest and extreme unction?

Yes, God is present in all of these things. But what is "extreme unction"?


No more than the supposition that the bible is true.

That doesn't make what you said a valid point.


Like What?

Just yesterday I was at work (I'm a cashier) and this one customer came up and started a little conversation as I was packing her cart, and she told me she was expecting a child in a few months. Now to me that was miraculous on several levels, because first of all there was a new life inside of her, and second of all because she was the only friendly customer I'd had all day and all day the day before, too. It made me feel good, it made my job easier. And to me that was a miracle. I saw God that day.


Excuse you, i have read it.

Did you read the part that says "love thy neighbor as yourself" then, or was your book missing that page?


Genesis. GOd had light, why did he need the sun and stars?

Kind of like the same reason you need bank accounts even though you already have money? I don't know, who the hell knows. Genesis was not meant to be an exact, literal account of what exactly happened. The point was that however the universe was created, God created it. Perhaps when God said "let there be light", the Big Bang happened, and when He consolidated that light into starts, describes the hydrogen from the Big Bang forming stars.


Youre judging me right now.

Hell no. I don't think you're a bd person, I think you're human. I'm just refuting your arguments against Christianity, I'm not condemning you.


Ok, but it doesnt answer the question

Then read it again.


Everything is up for debate. It is the beauty of the science.

The individuality of an unborn baby may be up for debate but it doesn't matter as it pertains to abortion. Do you debate that snow exists?


So you hate homosexuality but love homosexuals? -_-??

Yes. How is that hard to understand?


Creationist theory. This page is about Christianity in general

I asked you, where the hell does the Bible state that earth was created in 6000 BC? Where in the Catechism of the Catholic Church does it state this? Which Pope has declared it to be true?


Its cos evolution is true.

That doesn't have anything to do with why dinosaurs weren't mentioned in Genesis. They weren't mentioned because it doesn't matter. Besides, the Bible did mention something about "every animal on the planet" which would encompass dinosaurs.


WRONG. Theism = Belief in a god from the greek Theos which means god.

Yes, and you are an atheist. Atheism represents your beliefs regarding the existence of a God. Therefore it is a religion. You only claim it doesn't so they can teach it in schools.

[Ausinus]

No, God is not a "hermaphrodite". And that something is said to have been a rib, but anyone who understands literature will tell you that the rib is symbolic of more than that. It would be like a soldier raising the American flag in another territory. Meaningless unless you remember that this flag symbolizes our country. Besides, it's also been said that "rib" is not an adequate translation of the original word.

The rib symbolises that woman is inferior to man, man being created from clay. Why couldnt woman be created from clay too? More sexist crap.

And what is an adequate translation?



Perfect creations don't always exhibit perfect behaviour. But we are perfect creations because we can make that choice for ourselves. Have you ever seen A Clockwork Orange?

I have seen it, and Alex was not perfect. Perfect is without flaw, and humans posess flaws in plenty.


No, but God like any parent likes talking and listening to us.

Us, meaning christians.



Then you are not without God. God is everywhere. It would be like a hundred or more years ago when someone said there exists something called "oxygen", and someone unbelieving of oxygen were to say "I'm without oxygen yet I breathe".

But we can perform tests to verify the existence of oxygen, we cannot perform a test to verify god.



There's no contradiction. Jesus didn't say they shouldn't be stoned for their crimes, He just said no human should be the one to do it because none of us are any better than the other.

Then in leviticus, god intended for jesus to come down everytime and stone someone when they violated a law?



What did you expect, for Jesus to just come and fix all of our problems without any of us having to do anything? Did you think we should just be able to go on destroying the world and destroying society and still receive salvation without repentance?

Funnily enough, thats exactly what I expected from my readings of the bible.

And yet christian homosexuals who do nothing are damned to hell. They repent their sins.


Yes, God is present in all of these things. But what is "extreme unction"?

Extreme Unction - The last rites



Just yesterday I was at work (I'm a cashier) and this one customer came up and started a little conversation as I was packing her cart, and she told me she was expecting a child in a few months. Now to me that was miraculous on several levels, because first of all there was a new life inside of her, and second of all because she was the only friendly customer I'd had all day and all day the day before, too. It made me feel good, it made my job easier. And to me that was a miracle. I saw God that day.

When I say miracle, I mean something that transcends the laws of nature. Such as walking on water, water to wine, fire and brimstone from heaven and shit.


Did you read the part that says "love thy neighbor as yourself" then, or was your book missing that page?

My books have that page yes

Yet referring back to the original statement, fundamentalist christians do not love thy neighbour as thyself. So by your argument they arent christian.



Kind of like the same reason you need bank accounts even though you already have money? I don't know, who the hell knows. Genesis was not meant to be an exact, literal account of what exactly happened. The point was that however the universe was created, God created it. Perhaps when God said "let there be light", the Big Bang happened, and when He consolidated that light into starts, describes the hydrogen from the Big Bang forming stars.

And how would they know this when they wrote genesis? Are they prognostic?



Then read it again.[/QUO

No, how about you read these lines;
Genesis 9:25
Isaiah 13:9, 13;15
Hosea 13:16
Leviticus 25:45
Exodus 21:2,7
Colossians 3:22

[QUOTE]The individuality of an unborn baby may be up for debate but it doesn't matter as it pertains to abortion. Do you debate that snow exists?

I could go now and start a debate on the existence of snow, but I would be disproven due to overwhelming physical evidence.



Yes. How is that hard to understand?

It is a contradiction in terms. It would be like me saying that i hate rape, but i love rapists.


I asked you, where the hell does the Bible state that earth was created in 6000 BC? Where in the Catechism of the Catholic Church does it state this? Which Pope has declared it to be true?

I never stated that the bible stated it. This article is about christian beliefs in general. The belief that the earth is only a few millenia old is a creationist argument.

And because the pope stated something does not make it a universal christian belief. Catholicism is merely a schismatic sect from Orthodoxy. When you ask for validation, next time dont be specific to your own denomination.


Yes, and you are an atheist. Atheism represents your beliefs regarding the existence of a God. Therefore it is a religion. You only claim it doesn't so they can teach it in schools.

You know nothing about religion if you make this statement. Religion is belief in a deity. Atheism is not a religion because it is the absence of belief. Much like dark is the absence of light.

[Ausinus]

Heres another arguement.

God is said to perform 'miracles' such as curing someone of a terminal illnes tec. However, these 'miracles' are completely random and given to a minority.

It would be like doctors only giving life saving surgery to 2 out of ten people. If a doctor did that they would be given the LI.

[ajk]

That's sort of the idea of a miracle though. If it happened all the time it wouldn't be that special.

[Ausinus]

Thats not the point. Its unfair dispensation. It is a tactic for prosyletism. If people are told that if you believe in god it'll cure your cancer, of course they are going to convert. It is called preying on their fears. It happened in the middle ages, and its happening now.

[General Septem]

The rib symbolises that woman is inferior to man, man being created from clay. Why couldnt woman be created from clay too? More sexist crap.

Seems to me like your problem is not with this implying inferiority but with it implying that women are not exactly the same as men. Why is a rib inferior to dust?


And what is an adequate translation?

I'm not a linguist. I just said, it's been said.



I have seen it, and Alex was not perfect. Perfect is without flaw, and humans posess flaws in plenty.

The point is that while our choices may be perfect, we were created perfectly. When Alex was given his "treatment", he may not have committed any more crimes, but it was not by his choice but because he couldn't bear the pain the treatment caused him. In order to be perfect, we must posses the capacity to make imperfect choices.


Us, meaning christians.

Us meaning God's creation.



But we can perform tests to verify the existence of oxygen, we cannot perform a test to verify god.

You don't need to do any tests to see God. You just need to know what to look for.



Then in leviticus, god intended for jesus to come down everytime and stone someone when they violated a law?

No. Even though being without sin, Jesus would have been justified in stoning criminals, He chose to forgive them instead.



Funnily enough, thats exactly what I expected from my readings of the bible.

Then you obviously didn't read it.


And yet christian homosexuals who do nothing are damned to hell. They repent their sins.

Wrong. Being gay is no sin, fucking another guy in the ass is a sin.



When I say miracle, I mean something that transcends the laws of nature. Such as walking on water, water to wine, fire and brimstone from heaven and shit.

It's been known to happen, but with so many people not wanting God in the world anymore, why can you be surprised?


My books have that page yes

Yet referring back to the original statement, fundamentalist christians do not love thy neighbour as thyself. So by your argument they arent christian.

The ones that don't love their neighbor are not Christian. That does not apply to all Fundamentalist Christians, just the ones that don't love their neighbor.



And how would they know this when they wrote genesis? Are they prognostic?

Abraham just wrote what God told him to write.


No, how about you read these lines;
Genesis 9:25

Quote from Noah. Canaan saw his father naked and went and laughed about it to his brothers. I'd be pissed off too.


Isaiah 13:9, 13;15

Perhaps you should read it again - God is going to rid the world of sinners, people who bring about hatred and conflict in the world. God is going to rid the world of these people. Why is that bad?


Hosea 13:16

Nowhere does it say God will be directly responsible for this. Here we have a city that has rejected God; without God it's only natural that the country will fall to pieces.

You want dashing infants to rocks? See: America. I've got news for you: God's not the one doing it; we are. And by "we", I mean you. Ironic, isn't it?


Leviticus 25:45

What about it?


Exodus 21:2,7

It's generally accepted among Christians that slavery as we think of it is wrong. So your problem is with the Jews... you anti-Semite.


Colossians 3:22

What about it?


I could go now and start a debate on the existence of snow, but I would be disproven due to overwhelming physical evidence.

Then apparently, not everything is up for debate.



It is a contradiction in terms. It would be like me saying that i hate rape, but i love rapists.

And how is that a contradiction? Maybe I take it for granted that this is common knowledge to me, but how is it not possible to love someone even though they do things you disagree with?


I never stated that the bible stated it. This article is about christian beliefs in general. The belief that the earth is only a few millenia old is a creationist argument.

In no way is it central to the Christian faith or even creationism.


And because the pope stated something does not make it a universal christian belief.

It makes it a Catholic belief, and I am Catholic. So even if your argument applied, it would not apply to Catholicism.


Catholicism is merely a schismatic sect from Orthodoxy.

Actually Catholicism began before the Orthodox religions began, although the Orthodox churches were very eary as well. Catholicism is the religion from which all other sects of Christianity broke off from. I recommend reading history.


When you ask for validation, next time dont be specific to your own denomination.

I didn't ask for validation, I was pointing out the logical fallicy in your argument that the "6000 BC" belief discredits all Christians.


You know nothing about religion if you make this statement. Religion is belief in a deity. Atheism is not a religion because it is the absence of belief. Much like dark is the absence of light.

No, that's agnosticism. Atheism is not an absence of belief but a very firm belief that God does not exist. The absence of belief is agnosticism, which literally means "not knowing".


Heres another arguement.

God is said to perform 'miracles' such as curing someone of a terminal illnes tec. However, these 'miracles' are completely random and given to a minority.

It would be like doctors only giving life saving surgery to 2 out of ten people. If a doctor did that they would be given the LI.

God has worked miracles in the lives of all who ask. But God works through us, so if nobody did the work of God, there'd be no curing for the sick, no money for the poor, no nothing.

[Ausinus]

Seems to me like your problem is not with this implying inferiority but with it implying that women are not exactly the same as men. Why is a rib inferior to dust?

rib is adam's
rib=eve
therefore eve=adam's
its implying ownership. you cannot own a person


I'm not a linguist. I just said, it's been said.

Cite your source then.


[/QUOTE]The point is that while our choices may be perfect, we were created perfectly. When Alex was given his "treatment", he may not have committed any more crimes, but it was not by his choice but because he couldn't bear the pain the treatment caused him. In order to be perfect, we must posses the capacity to make imperfect choices.[/QUOTE]

Are disabled or autistic people created perfect then?


You don't need to do any tests to see God. You just need to know what to look for.

-_-? This is a meaningless statement. Knowing what to look for is a test in itself.


No. Even though being without sin, Jesus would have been justified in stoning criminals, He chose to forgive them instead.

Thats was his choice (if he even existed) and hes welcome to it.



Wrong. Being gay is no sin, fucking another guy in the ass is a sin.

And pray tell, why is that a sin?


t's been known to happen, but with so many people not wanting God in the world anymore, why can you be surprised?

When has it been known to happen? Give an example with reasoning as to why it is a miracle.


Abraham just wrote what God told him to write.

Why is it so full of contradictions then?


Quote from Noah. Canaan saw his father naked and went and laughed about it to his brothers. I'd be pissed off too.

It doesnt justify it.


Perhaps you should read it again - God is going to rid the world of sinners, people who bring about hatred and conflict in the world. God is going to rid the world of these people. Why is that bad?

God hasnt gotten rid of Bush, Blair, Cheney, Condoleeza, Howard or Castro.
And many murderers, rapists and child molesters live on to die at a ripe old age.

Because they have no defence. I wish some evil people would die, but I would still give them a fair trial. I would even give Hitler a fair trial.This is why I believe in the law. Unless god makes the Supreme court of heaven, earth and purgatory, i will still view it as unjust.


Nowhere does it say God will be directly responsible for this. Here we have a city that has rejected God; without God it's only natural that the country will fall to pieces.

This is an ignorant statement. Need I remind you

-Western Roman empire (post christian)
-Byzantine Empire
-Latin Empire of Constantinople
-Russian Empire
-Holy Roman Empire
-Papal States

These were all VERY christian states and they fell apart.
All nations fall apart eventually. God has nothing to do with it.


You want dashing infants to rocks? See: America. I've got news for you: God's not the one doing it; we are. And by "we", I mean you. Ironic, isn't it?

Me: See australia

If you are referring to abortion, the difference is that these infants in the bible have been born, and have lived (no tabula rasa) without the biological dependence on the mother.


What about it?

Slavery

It's generally accepted among Christians that slavery as we think of it is wrong. So your problem is with the Jews... you anti-Semite.

I have no problems with the jews. What i have problems with is the principles of the statement.


What about it?

Slavery. It is also in the new testament, which makes your prior arguement illogical.


Then apparently, not everything is up for debate.

WHen i say everything is up for debate, i mean anyone can start a debate on it.


And how is that a contradiction? Maybe I take it for granted that this is common knowledge to me, but how is it not possible to love someone even though they do things you disagree with?

See: Stalin




It makes it a Catholic belief, and I am Catholic. So even if your argument applied, it would not apply to Catholicism.



Actually Catholicism began before the Orthodox religions began, although the Orthodox churches were very eary as well. Catholicism is the religion from which all other sects of Christianity broke off from. I recommend reading history.[/QUOTE]

How about you read your history. The Catholic Church broke off from the Orthodox church because they inserted the Filioquis clause in the nicene creedand broke the 'all patriarchates are equal' rule without holding an ecumenical council. Koine Greek was the original language of the church, and the new testament.



No, that's agnosticism. Atheism is not an absence of belief but a very firm belief that God does not exist. The absence of belief is agnosticism, which literally means "not knowing".

Atheism is the absence of belief in a deity. Agnosticism is the belief that deities are not humanly understandable.

I consider myself atheist but I also take views from Epicurianism, Nihilism and Empiricism.


God has worked miracles in the lives of all who ask. But God works through us, so if nobody did the work of God, there'd be no curing for the sick, no money for the poor, no nothing.

Why would an omnipotent god need to work through us?

[General Septem]

rib is adam's
rib=eve
therefore eve=adam's
its implying ownership. you cannot own a person

The rib wasn't Adam's once God took it out of him. I could be a cranky bitch and say "why didn't Eve have something taken out of her?", but the cranky bitch gene only affects women.


Cite your source then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_and_Eve#Adam.27s_rib

Of course the answer to man having the same ribs as women is that Genesis never said how many ribs Adam had before one was taken, nor how many ribs Eve had.

[/QUOTE]Are disabled or autistic people created perfect then?[/quote]

Of course. Why not?


-_-? This is a meaningless statement. Knowing what to look for is a test in itself.

If you look at something and see the color red, that cannot be said to be a test. It's just there.


Thats was his choice (if he even existed) and hes welcome to it.

What's your point?



And pray tell, why is that a sin?

It is a perverse form of sexual gratification.


When has it been known to happen? Give an example with reasoning as to why it is a miracle.

A lot of people have seen apparitions of the Virgin Mary, among other things.


Why is it so full of contradictions then?

It isn't, unless you're expecting a history or science book.


It doesnt justify it.

Justify what? Noah's son disrespected him, what was he supposed to do, give him a time-out? The Hell with that.


God hasnt gotten rid of Bush, Blair, Cheney, Condoleeza, Howard or Castro.
And many murderers, rapists and child molesters live on to die at a ripe old age.

Not yet He hasn't. "The time will come" the passage says.


Because they have no defence. I wish some evil people would die, but I would still give them a fair trial. I would even give Hitler a fair trial.This is why I believe in the law. Unless god makes the Supreme court of heaven, earth and purgatory, i will still view it as unjust.

Seeing as how God already knows everything there is to know, there's little point in a trial except to allow the wicked to attempt to lie to God, which wouldn't work. That works both ways, though, so if someone is repentant he will not be killed. No trial necessary.


This is an ignorant statement. Need I remind you

-Western Roman empire (post christian)
-Byzantine Empire
-Latin Empire of Constantinople
-Russian Empire
-Holy Roman Empire
-Papal States

These were all VERY christian states and they fell apart.
All nations fall apart eventually. God has nothing to do with it.

These are nations that became tyranical. Even though their law was based on Christianity, tyranny is not in any way loving. The people rebelled and the nation fell apart.


Me: See australia

If you are referring to abortion, the difference is that these infants in the bible have been born, and have lived (no tabula rasa) without the biological dependence on the mother.

It's no different. The point is that the Bible says "these infants will be dashed to pieces," not that God will be the one doing it.



I have no problems with the jews.

Your argument against Christianity also applies to Judaism.



See: Stalin

Stalin did some pretty bad shit, but as a human being we must still love him even though his actions were very flawed.



How about you read your history. The Catholic Church broke off from the Orthodox church because they inserted the Filioquis clause in the nicene creedand broke the 'all patriarchates are equal' rule without holding an ecumenical council. Koine Greek was the original language of the church, and the new testament.

The Catholic Church was instituted by Peter. He was the first Pope. That's as far back as you can go. The Orthodox churches were created at around the same time, but Catholicism is the one started by Peter.



Atheism is the absence of belief in a deity. Agnosticism is the belief that deities are not humanly understandable.

What I'm saying is that you don't just not believe in God, you believe there is no God. There is a difference.


Why would an omnipotent god need to work through us?

Maybe because He does not wish to be Big Brother and the police force. Maybe because if God physically occupied the world it would interfere with our free will as a race.

[Ausinus]

The rib wasn't Adam's once God took it out of him. I could be a cranky bitch and say "why didn't Eve have something taken out of her?", but the cranky bitch gene only affects women.

Please dont be sexist. Men can be cranky and even crankier than women.


Of course. Why not?

Define perfect again please?


If you look at something and see the color red, that cannot be said to be a test. It's just there.

But by looking at something, you are testing to see if it is there. Further more, empirical data you have gathered include that it is red.



It is a perverse form of sexual gratification.

Perversness is subjective. Also, how is it different from two straight people having sex? (apart from what goes where). It is two people trying to achieve pleasure in each other.


A lot of people have seen apparitions of the Virgin Mary, among other things.

Who is a lot of people? Were there others present? Can this be attributed to any psychological theories of perception?


It isn't, unless you're expecting a history or science book.

But by your previous arguement that it was told to abraham by god, and taking the fact that god is supposedly omniscient and omnipotent into account, therefore it must be factual.


Seeing as how God already knows everything there is to know, there's little point in a trial except to allow the wicked to attempt to lie to God, which wouldn't work. That works both ways, though, so if someone is repentant he will not be killed. No trial necessary.

So if Stalin repented he wouldnt be killed?


These are nations that became tyranical. Even though their law was based on Christianity, tyranny is not in any way loving. The people rebelled and the nation fell apart.

No more tyrannical than the Catholic Church.

Byzantine Empire = Fell because of 4th crusade in 1204 CE and Turkish Invasion in 1453 CE
Western Roman Empire = Fell because of barbarian invasion
Papal States = Dissolved by Constitution of Italy
HRE = Fell due to invasion and to political strife



It's no different. The point is that the Bible says "these infants will be dashed to pieces," not that God will be the one doing it.

But it is god telling the Israelites to do it.


Stalin did some pretty bad shit, but as a human being we must still love him even though his actions were very flawed.

-_-? thats naive.



The Catholic Church was instituted by Peter. He was the first Pope. That's as far back as you can go. The Orthodox churches were created at around the same time, but Catholicism is the one started by Peter.

Peter was not a Catholic, nor did he start it. He merely founded the christian church of Rome. He spoke Greek in his sermons and used the eastern rite. He had the same powers as the eastern patriach. The western churchagonised the Eastern patriarchs by changing the liturgical language to latin, the Filioque clause and the "first among equals". Then the Catholic church was officially created when the Byzantine synod excommunicated the western rite church in 1054 CE.


Maybe because He does not wish to be Big Brother and the police force. Maybe because if God physically occupied the world it would interfere with our free will as a race.

Well then he must be cruel if he can create us and then leave us to kill, rape, assault and make war on each other. Suffering for god? Oh please, that sounds like an abused wife saying 'its for my own good' and 'its my own fault'. How can god be love and be sadistic at once?