What should we do about it?

[AceTracer]

I've been reading over some of the threads in this forum, and it seems to me that the chief complaint is that illegal immigrants suck up government resources while not paying any taxes in return.

Ok, so the problem is clear, now what should we do about it? Should we deport them all? The estimated number of illegal immigrants in this country are between 12-15 million. That's a lot of immigrants. Removing them all in one swift stroke seems like an economic clusterfuck. Many of them are doing menial jobs for less than minimum wage. I wonder how it would affect businesses to have to pay reasonable wages for legal immigrants to do those same jobs. I'd be interested to know what the predicted economic repercussions would be.

Ok, so what's the other option? Force them to become citizens? That seems like a better idea. At least then we can tax these fuckers and actually make them pay for all the resources they're sucking up. So what's that involve?

Here's a handy chart... (http://reason.org/files/a87d1550853898a9b306ef458f116079.pdf)

Hmm, so it seems that it's basically impossible for an unskilled immigrant without relations in the U.S. to apply for permanent legal residence. Moreover, even if you are skilled, have a college degree, a job offer, and an employer willing to pay $10,000 in certification and legal fees, it will still take 11-16 years to become a citizen. Ouch.

Ok, so what then? What the fuck do we do with all of these damn illegals?

[yee-haw]

Feed them to the liberals.

[MrJim]

Lots of alligators in the Rio Grande would do it.

I read an article in the news today about a school district that forced the students to show proof of citizenship to be admitted... I wish I had time to go dig it up. Cool approach.

[Pau Diaz]

Feed them to the liberals.

I believe this is the right course of action to take. Conservatives have chosen a system whereby the immigrants they know are either well off or are in high positions, comprable to their own. On the other hand they'll be uncomfortable. A former friend of my family said that she wasn't against immigrants, but "there were so many of them." Liberals will be less closed and more likely to accept them in a more open manner. The people of Honduras are in that position where I live.

[AceTracer]

I read an article in the news today about a school district that forced the students to show proof of citizenship to be admitted... I wish I had time to go dig it up. Cool approach.
Cool approach to what exactly? How is this going to fix our immigration problem? Are you suggesting we do this for everything? Should we "show our papers" any time we want any kind of service? If so, how will this discourage immigration? Even assuming that this stops immigrants from crossing the border, and encourages others to return, who will take over all of those menial jobs?

I replied to your post since it was the only one that had any kind of reasonable suggestion for a possible solution. It seems the rest of you are too busy complaining to think up of ways to fix this mess.

[Pau Diaz]

I replied to your post since it was the only one that had any kind of reasonable suggestion for a possible solution. It seems the rest of you are too busy complaining to think up of ways to fix this mess.

Excuse me, you're only a junior member here. It's disrespectful to make such a general accusation without knowing the rest of us well.

[yee-haw]

You tell him pau... Straighten him out!;)

[Carrot]

Yea, JUNIOR member. Bow before the might of us SENIOR members, who are far wiser, intellegent, rock solid and just gerenerally alot more awesome than you.

[hitekredneck]

Ok, so what then? What the fuck do we do with all of these damn illegals?

send em back where they came from with literature on how to change their own system :rolleyes:

[AceTracer]

send em back where they came from with literature on how to change their own system :rolleyes:
What do you think sending back ~14 million illegal immigrants will do to the economy?

[Carrot]

Improve it?

[Phoenix]

Mexico owes us a whole hell of a lot. I gotta go with my dad on this one :foreclose on Mexico and annex it along with all countries down to the Panama Canal. Less border area to cover.

[Pau Diaz]

Maybe taking over the country wouldn't be such a bad idea. If their currently corrupt system were to be replaced by another more honest one, it would go a long way in resolving the problem. The root of it is how the ones in power hoard the wealth for themselves and leave the rest with next to nothing. A more civilized and urbane country could take their reigns away from them and pull them more positively.

[Phoenix]

Maybe taking over the country wouldn't be such a bad idea. If their currently corrupt system were to be replaced by another more honest one, it would go a long way in resolving the problem. The root of it is how the ones in power hoard the wealth for themselves and leave the rest with next to nothing. A more civilized and urbane country could take their reigns away from them and pull them more positively.
Hello! Welcome to America. Where the fuck do you live? That's the same problem we have in the states. That's why the country is out of money while Ms. Obama can buy a new jet for us using taxpayer money.

Since you seem to be oblivious, let me lay out some things for you.
WE HAVE NO REPRESENTATION IN TAXATION. WE HAVE NO REPRESENTATION IN THE USE OF TAX MONEY. WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN MADE COMPLETELY HOMELESS FROM THIS HUNDRED YEAR OLD PYRAMID SCHEME YOU CALL THE FEDERAL RESERVE.

Mmkay?

[Controversy]

What's it gonna gain us is the question I ask. If immigration gives us workforces and materials and we treat our subjects well, like the Romans and Egyptians did with their slaves, I'm all for immigration. We built stuff of legends by using others.

[hitekredneck]

What do you think sending back ~14 million illegal immigrants will do to the economy?

it'll ruin theirs while improving our public service area (emergency rooms, free lunches for their kids, education, pretective services) :cool:

[freakazoid]

What do you think sending back ~14 million illegal immigrants will do to the economy?

Send them back to where they came from. Our economy will do just fine without them. Since when does our ability to prosper depend on them?

[Kaptain Nelag]

Here's my solution: Use sense rather than nonsense.

Let's face it. We have an imigration system that is just plain dysfunctional. (i.e. fucked up) The solution is to first recognize where we're starting from and chart a reasonable course of action from there. Since imigration is a national issue, it is the responsibility of the federal government to adopt a workable plan. Here is my idea of a workable plan:

Develop an imigration plan that is mutually beneficial to the U. S. and to the immigrant. Take the idea from the craft unions. If x number of workers are needed issue work permits to the Mexicans for this particular job. When the work is completed send the Mexicans back home with a few dollars (or pesos) in their pockets until the next available position comes available. If the Mexicans violate the terms of their work permit, either by staying or committing criminal acts it would make them ineligible for future work.

Would you believe it! This is not an original idea. Ontario, Canada has a program that is quite similiar to this, and it is working quite well despite the workers having to to purchase air travel tickets to travel hundreds of miles across the United States. Couldn't we convince our government to do something like this?

[Controversy]

We could do as you suggest, but first we gotta put more reasonable people in charge first. You wouldn't believe the number of people over here in Gerona that are either without papers or are deported cause they can't find work once their permit expires. To implement your system where I am, they need ta cut this railroad of illegal immigrants. How authorities let them in without documentation is a liberty they'll take so long as we do nothing to stop it. They want cheap labour, even if it means breaking the law. So long as this desire is alive, we ain't never gonna the problem.

[freakazoid]

We could do as you suggest, but first we gotta put more reasonable people in charge first. You wouldn't believe the number of people over here in Gerona that are either without papers or are deported cause they can't find work once their permit expires. To implement your system where I am, they need ta cut this railroad of illegal immigrants. How authorities let them in without documentation is a liberty they'll take so long as we do nothing to stop it. They want cheap labour, even if it means breaking the law. So long as this desire is alive, we ain't never gonna the problem.

We don't have to do a damn thing except enforce the law. Problem solved.

[Controversy]

Exactly, even a freak is intelligent. We bust the asses of the idiots who wanna exploit these immigrants and we take people in after their papers are in order.

[MrJim]

Cool approach to what exactly?

Putting up some red tape for illegal immigrants.


How is this going to fix our immigration problem?

Immigrants don't deserve the right to public education, or public ANYTHING for that matter. It's a deterent.


Are you suggesting we do this for everything?

We are supposed to be doing so already. It's called 'illegal' immigration for a reason.


Should we "show our papers" any time we want any kind of service?

Yes, and public education is an AMERICAN TAXPAYER FUNDED system, not just 'any kind of service'. Think of how much tax money is wasted for bullshit ESL programs that exist ONLY because we have special accomodations built into our school system for illegal immigrants - and these are teaching jobs available ONLY to those teachers who are bilingual. That's fucked up. Makes me want to vomit.


If so, how will this discourage immigration?

Because the jackasses get less freebies. It's not much, but it's a start.


Even assuming that this stops immigrants from crossing the border, and encourages others to return, who will take over all of those menial jobs?

Americans who used to do the same fucking things 30 years ago: plumbing, roofing, A/C, electrical work, construction... there are plenty of businesses that would benefit from illegals getting the fuck out of here (my family owned a BUNCH of them for decades); most people in this country aren't so lazy they would rather starve than work. I'd gladly pick up a shovel and dig a ditch to feed my family if I had to. My grandparents did it and my father and uncles do it (or at least try painstakingly to). The employment rate is up enough already thanks to job exporting to China and India.

[PoliticallyBurnt]

I've been reading over some of the threads in this forum, and it seems to me that the chief complaint is that illegal immigrants suck up government resources while not paying any taxes in return.

Ok, so the problem is clear, now what should we do about it? Should we deport them all? The estimated number of illegal immigrants in this country are between 12-15 million. That's a lot of immigrants. Removing them all in one swift stroke seems like an economic clusterfuck. Many of them are doing menial jobs for less than minimum wage. I wonder how it would affect businesses to have to pay reasonable wages for legal immigrants to do those same jobs. I'd be interested to know what the predicted economic repercussions would be.

Ok, so what's the other option? Force them to become citizens? That seems like a better idea. At least then we can tax these fuckers and actually make them pay for all the resources they're sucking up. So what's that involve?

Here's a handy chart... (http://reason.org/files/a87d1550853898a9b306ef458f116079.pdf)

Hmm, so it seems that it's basically impossible for an unskilled immigrant without relations in the U.S. to apply for permanent legal residence. Moreover, even if you are skilled, have a college degree, a job offer, and an employer willing to pay $10,000 in certification and legal fees, it will still take 11-16 years to become a citizen. Ouch.

Ok, so what then? What the fuck do we do with all of these damn illegals?

look - if you expect me to parrot other peoples idea's - DON'T!

Like MOST political crap ... it's PURE stupidity at its norm!

On my fathers side of the family - I am the very first one to be born in the USA ... and I was NOT an anchor baby!

My father was German & Italian (Italians are the REAL Latinos)

now that the crap is out of the way ... here is the solution!
LONG WINDED (condensed version)!

to find a solution - lets look at the pro's and con's of deportation

PRO'S ... the law breakers are GONE! ... the burden on schools and health care are minimally reduced. Many gang and cartel members are gone.

CON'S:

IT WILL COST TOO MUCH! Way too much!

Ask yourself a few questions about the size of the problem.


How many counties in the entire United States?

ANSWER:

The U.S. Census Bureau lists 3,140 counties or county-equivalent administrative units in total. (SOURCE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_(United_States)))
What is the average cost of a police cruiser?

ANSWER:

According to the Oregon State Police, the 2006 Ford cost $29,600 when fully equipped, compared with the Hemi Chargers at $30,600 fully equipped (SOURCE (http://www.allpar.com/squads/police-cars/charger.html))
what is the low and high average of a Law Enforcement wage?

ANSWER:


The median expected salary for a typical Police Patrol Officer in the United States is $49,158. (SOURCE (http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layouthtmls/swzl_compresult_national_LG12000003.html))
The median expected salary for a typical Police Sergeant in the United States is $62,739 (SOURCE (http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layouthtmls/swzl_compresult_national_LG12000002.html))
The median expected salary for a typical Sheriff/Police Chief in the United States is $93,980. (SOURCE (http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layouthtmls/swzl_compresult_national_LG12000025.html))

Approximately how many illegals are in the USA?

ANSWER:In 2007 The Estimated Number of Immigrants Hits 37.5M (SOURCE (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/12/AR2007091200071.html))
How many passengers does a standard Greyhound bus seat?

ANSWER:49 [INDENT] (SOURCE (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_passengers_does_a_standard_Greyhound_bus_ seat))
How Many Seats On A Boeing 747 is a wide-body commercial airliner?

ANSWER:
Boeing 747-8 -- 467 Passenger capacity

Boeing 747-400 -- Typical 3-class configuration 416 capacity
Typical 2-class configuration 524 capacity

Boeing 747-400ER Typical 3-class configuration 416 capacity
Typical 2-class configuration 524 capacity

Boeing 747-400 Domestic -- Typical 3-class configuration (with cargo) 568 capacity

Boeing 747 Classics -- 3-class configuration 366 capacity
2-class configuration 452 capacity
1-class configuration n/a
(SOURCE (http://www.funtrivia.com/askft/Question2779.html))


How much does it cost to house a person in jail?

ANSWER:

In Florida - It costs $55.09 on average per day or $20,108 per year to keep an inmate in prison . (SOURCE (http://www.dc.state.fl.us/pub/statsbrief/cost.html))



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WITH ALL THOSE FACTS - how affordable is it to deport them?
Who is going to pay for it? ... the MONEY PRINCESS?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

so honestly speaking ... there is a problem! RIGHT

... but what about the positive effects they have on our country.

It's called AGRICULTURE (to mention the obvious)

Have you EVER worked in a field?

What are the possibilities that inner city people would be able to do it well enough to survive on piece work?
That is how the wages are determined during harvest in many types of agricultural situations.

I tried it as a kid ... more than I was willing to do ... and I was not known as a slacker.


If we remove them from our food chain, a lot more of us won't be able to afford fresh fruit and veggies. That means more Diabetics and cardiovascular, and over weight issues in our society. (more strain on health care industry)

So, now you are probably wondering what the solution is - right?

We need a solution that will


support itself
won't cut our hand off to spite our face
will meet the needs of everyone (in general)


My solution meets ALL those needs!

Basically; they are here to stay. There is NO way to send them across the border that can be affordable.

So - to SUPPORT itself - it needs to generate it's OWN money to operate (like the Post Office or DMV).

HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN?


Through a monthly photo ID work permit.
What is the money to be used for?

Documentation Through a MONTHLY Worker ID program.
The incarceration of those who refuse to abide by the new labor laws.
deportation of those who refuse to abide by the laws.
the payroll for the law enforcement and administration of the program
to pay for the additional equipment and overhead of the operation.

How much will it cost to have permission to work in the USA?


I would think that $50.00 a month per adult and
any children of school age who are living with parents and NOT WORKING more than 30 hours a week would cost $10.00 a month (of which the $10.00 would go to the local schools up to twelfth grade).

What would this accomplish?


This ID would allow the Law Enforcement to have a registered photo and finger prints in a computer data base like NCIS database to know a name associated with a face and a form of social security number to collect payroll, FICA, and income tax.

It will also allow them to LEGALLY get a driver license and the ID to have insurance.

This ID will allow them to even save money in a ROTH IRA for their retirement in what ever country they live in (it also assists in supporting of business stocks and bonds in THIS COUNTRY).

It will also generate the funds needed to deport those who refuse to have a work permit and to reduce the labor behind trying to determine if a person is legal or not.

.... after all - Americans are legally required to carry ID at ALL TIMES - why shouldn't they?


Now - once they are legally working here - make it MANDATORY for employers to carry a basic health care coverage that does NOT include sniffles and sore throats and maintenance shots like flu shots and kids school shots.
Something that tends to BIG issues (the smallest be a broken leg or arm)

Sure ... there are plenty of hair splitting things to make an idea like this work ... but I am NOT being paid to do it ... It is JUST a BASIC idea that will actually be heading in the right (and practical) direction!!