Protectionism?

[MrJim]

Alright, I gotta rant & rave about this shit now... I've been walking the fence on this for about a year based on past events in history, but it's becoming more clear that we probably NEED a little protectionism if we don't want to end up conqurered, impoverished, or both.

Since Pinnochio has proved himself to be a worthless president with the ~10%jobless rate extending into at least 2014 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091019/ap_on_bi_ge/us_vanishing_jobs;_ylt=AmdLQiKVc1R3xT6ta7r0BV6s0NU E;_ylu=X3oDMTMwOGcwc281BGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkxMDE5L3V zX3ZhbmlzaGluZ19qb2JzBGNwb3MDMwRwb3MDMTAEcHQDaG9tZ V9jb2tlBHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcnkEc2xrA2hpZ2hlcmpvYmx lcw--), I have to say, how is protectionism a bad thing in this day and age as opposed to past economies? Whether you agree or not, the internet was Pandora's Box... click a button, kill a job. We're becoming economically dismantled and impoverished as business ship good jobs overseas... not because they wanted to, but because the other guys did. American companies can't afford to pay a living wage anymore; that's just sad! Shouldn't there be some kind of limit? We're cutting our own throats, folks!

[MrJim]

To add something, the Fed is alluding to what I just mentioned in this story (man it's a busy day for news)... While we are in a horrible jobless environment that may last into 2014 or later, developing countries in Asia have already "rebounded strongly" as more work shifts overseas.

[Montanarchist]

It is not a problem that communication and financial systems grow beyond the control of borders, the problem is that we clinge on to these borders in the first place. The imporverishment and job losses you speak of is part of the process of Creative Destruction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_destruction). Nation-states are outdated, if we'd let them go we wouldn't have these problems.
It's the exact same reason bailouts are bad, if an entity fails on the market, it fails on the market. It causes pain, but to prevent that process will cause even more chaos.

[MrJim]

It is not a problem that communication and financial systems grow beyond the control of borders, the problem is that we clinge on to these borders in the first place. The imporverishment and job losses you speak of is part of the process of Creative Destruction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_destruction). Nation-states are outdated, if we'd let them go we wouldn't have these problems.
It's the exact same reason bailouts are bad, if an entity fails on the market, it fails on the market. It causes pain, but to prevent that process will cause even more chaos.

That's another aspect of the problem, as is the influx of automation. Things are just too out of hand. We cannot invent, conserve, train/learn, or tax our way out of this one. All we can do is print money and print more money; the result is inflation that globalization sought to curve in the first place, without the jobs, of course. Gas is climbing again because Asia is kicking our ass.

By nation-states, are you talking about multiple worldwide currencies or state-level government boundaries? :confused:

[Montanarchist]

That's another aspect of the problem, as is the influx of automation. Things are just too out of hand. We cannot invent, conserve, train/learn, or tax our way out of this one. All we can do is print money and print more money; the result is inflation that globalization sought to curve in the first place, without the jobs, of course. Gas is climbing again because Asia is kicking our ass.
...and that's why the system has to be abandoned. We can live with these things, but not like we have ti right now.


By nation-states, are you talking about multiple worldwide currencies or state-level government boundaries? :confused:
Boundaries in this case, i guess.

[MrJim]

What are you suggesting exactly? :confused:

State boundaries are unlikely to be removed, and actually tightened by the development of new provinces as state governments try to escape the grips of poorer areas. A one world currency would work, that is, if world peace permanently broke out tomorrow (it won't).

[Montanarchist]

What are you suggesting exactly? :confused:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism


State boundaries are unlikely to be removed, and actually tightened by the development of new provinces as state governments try to escape the grips of poorer areas.
They are unlikely to be removed voluntarily but I don't think they have a choice. Just like Polaroid camera's didn't stay in business when digital photography arrived I don't believe they can exist in a world like this.

[MrJim]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism

WHOOOAAAAA.... I don't think I even have to time to START on how problematic THAT sounds... :eek:


... law enforcement, courts, and all other security services are provided by voluntarily-funded competitors such as private defense agencies rather than through compulsory taxation, and money is privately produced in an open market.

Maybe tomorrow, Monty. Maybe tomorrow.

[WhiteRaven]

It would be difficult to make it work, but our current system isn't working at all, so...

[Montanarchist]

WHOOOAAAAA.... I don't think I even have to time to START on how problematic THAT sounds... :eek:
Not particularly problematic at all. It has existed in history, America's colonial period had plenty of private arbiters and emergent property rights, medieval Ireland ran with a system that could be called "anarcho-capitalism" for almost a thousand years och European merchant law in medieval times was completely private and created the ground of rmodern commercial laws and domestic trade laws.

A private law society is not a pipe dream, it is not impossible to create and it functions fine.

[MrJim]

Umm... so, what happens when the shareholders of the courts and cops get into legal trouble? Can we say EXTREME conflict of interest??

Somehow I don't see that working very well.

[Antagonism]

I'm sorry i'm being an idiot, I won't do it again... Also i apologise for bumping this thread without adding anything of value.

[Carrot]

Protectionism´s a real tricky thing to maintain in the present. You need to meet the monthy quota per month or you´ll end up in trouble with the protection racket. In a time or crisis, it´s better to make your own way, rather than be in debt with ruthless individuals. At least you can make your own destiny.

Wtf are you doing pau?

[Controversy]

Acting without thought, Carrot. I was acting on a base impulse too blindly. I'm sorry for what I did.