View Full Version : Why do religouse folk hate gays?
MrBirdy
12-10-2006, 03:34 AM
I want a real respons, is it just becouse of some stupid book? is that it, what if Mein Kampf was our bible would you obey it? Why do you descriminate!!! And im not just saying religiouse folk, i mean all conservatives, dont you ever get tired of being wrong? If we agreed with the conservatives on everything, i would have to go to an under budget school!!
You religiouse folk call yourself fair, and say you follow the word of god. But if that is true, than many of you are racist sexist or descriminate people based on other factors. So tell me why do you hate gays? Are they the new black?
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
"The right of citizens in the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex. "
We do not hate gays as people, only the acts we hate. If anyone does hate a gay person, that is wrong of them.
who897
12-10-2006, 03:06 PM
If people are just a collection of their actions and thoughts, then by hating the acts that someone does you by default hate that person.
No it isn't. Hating the actions is entirely different from hating the person itself. If I hated a person because they were gay I wouldn't acknowledge them at all. But the fact is I have several friends who are gay. Does that mean I agree with their position? Of course not. But it doesn't mean I don't love them as people. In fact that's part of what being a catholic is all about. Loving your neighbor as much as you love yourself.
Ausinus
12-10-2006, 03:18 PM
But by hating the acts, you are denying them the right to personal freedom. I am so happy the humanist movement happened.
JOHN LOCKE,THOMAS JEFFERSON AND GERMAINE GREER RULE:D
But by hating the acts, you are denying them the right to personal freedom. I am so happy the humanist movement happened.
No not really, because I cannot force them to change their position on the matter. The only thing I can do is attempt to get them to understand why it's wrong in the hope it will change their minds. Ultimately however, they still have to the decision to make, not me.
Ausinus
12-10-2006, 03:33 PM
No not really, because I cannot force them to change their position on the matter. The only thing I can do is attempt to get them to understand why it's wrong in the hope it will change their minds. Ultimately however, they still have to the decision to make, not me.
Read my article on the anti gay biblical laws to see why it is not a sin.
Read my article on the anti gay biblical laws to see why it is not a sin.
But it is, regardless of how long ago that was created it is. It's right there in black and white. No man shall lie with a man like he does with a woman. How hard is that to understand?
Ausinus
12-10-2006, 03:58 PM
But it is, regardless of how long ago that was created it is. It's right there in black and white. No man shall lie with a man like he does with a woman. How hard is that to understand?
Because it was written by a nomadic civilization, who had it to enforce a high birth rate. Now a settles civilization like the ancient greeks didnt think homosexuality was wrong, and their birth rates were so high they had to colonize.
who897
12-10-2006, 06:31 PM
No not really, because I cannot force them to change their position on the matter. The only thing I can do is attempt to get them to understand why it's wrong in the hope it will change their minds. Ultimately however, they still have to the decision to make, not me.
LOL, yes hope they change their minds, as if their sexual orintation is a lightswitch that can be thrown, "click" OHHH MY I'M STRAIGHT NOW.
Well now you may still be attracted to guys, but it doesn't mean you have to accept that. You can still change if you want to bad enough.
Ausinus
12-10-2006, 07:08 PM
Well now you may still be attracted to guys, but it doesn't mean you have to accept that. You can still change if you want to bad enough.
But what if you dont want to change? Its called personal choice. They can be attracted to who they want.
who897
12-10-2006, 07:13 PM
And you can be attracted to you faith, no matter how false your bible is. I aint even gonna try and stop you, I just don't wanna hear about it.
And you can be attracted to you faith, no matter how false your bible is. I aint even gonna try and stop you, I just don't wanna hear about it.
Well I'm sorry but that's just too bad. Part of my responsibility as a catholic is to educate those who are uninformed about the faith and its teachings. And that responsibility is something I take very seriously.
Ausinus
12-10-2006, 07:49 PM
Well I'm sorry but that's just too bad. Part of my responsibility as a catholic is to educate those who are uninformed about the faith and its teachings. And that responsibility is something I take very seriously.
If anything your views on contraception are far more harmful then gay acts. No contraception spreads pregnancy and STDs. Its why so many people in africa have aids, because no one educates them on proper condom use.
Give them condoms and not bibles.
who897
12-10-2006, 07:51 PM
Ohh no, give em the book, the book will feed them, the book will clothe them, the book will shelter them........The book will protect them from STD's, I'm just trying to figure out how you get the book to cover your penis enough to get enjoyment and protection.
Ausinus
12-10-2006, 07:52 PM
Ohh no, give em the book, the book will feed them, the book will clothe them, the book will shelter them........The book will protect them from STD's, I'm just trying to figure out how you get the book to cover your penis enough to get enjoyment and protection.
HAHAHA.:D :D Perhaps you could use the pages where it details the birth of christ? Im sure christ will protect you!
If anything your views on contraception are far more harmful then gay acts. No contraception spreads pregnancy and STDs.
Maybe, but it also teaches responsibility and consequences for actions. And the more that learn that the better off we become as a whole.
Ausinus
12-10-2006, 07:58 PM
Maybe, but it also teaches responsibility and consequences for actions. And the more that learn that the better off we become as a whole.
Yeah we're much better off with aids, syphillis and hepatitis.
Ausinus
12-10-2006, 08:01 PM
Btw, ajk, did you know that Pope Benedict has yet to issue an opinion on contraception? Perhaps he will say its ok, what then?
I mean the orthodox church allows contraception and they are just as constervative than you.
Yeah we're much better off with aids, syphillis and hepatitis.
You don't understand what I'm saying. Let's say Mary has sex at 19, and ends up having a child she wasn't ready for. She may go out there and start speaking out about abstainence, and how if you're not ready for a child, don't make the mistake of having sex like she did. As a result teen pregnancy rates begin to fall in due part to her speaking out about her past.
Or let's say Leeann has sex and ends up with an STD, even though she did use a condom. She like Mary starts to go and speak out about how contraceptives are not as fool proof as people think, changing many lives as a result.
See sometimes those negatives can be turned into a positive, and help create a better world.
Btw, ajk, did you know that Pope Benedict has yet to issue an opinion on contraception? Perhaps he will say its ok, what then?
I somehow doubt he would do that, but if he did so be it. I would disagree with it however.
Ausinus
12-10-2006, 08:07 PM
You don't understand what I'm saying. Let's say Mary has sex at 19, and ends up having a child she wasn't ready for. She may go out there and start speaking out about abstainence, and how if you're not ready for a child, don't make the mistake of having sex like she did. As a result teen pregnancy rates begin to fall in due part to her speaking out about her past.
Cos she was too much of a slut to use a condom. This is why we need both sex ed. to educate people about this and abortion to act as a failsafe to contraceptives.
Or let's say Leeann has sex and ends up with an STD, even though she did use a condom. She like Mary starts to go and speak out about how contraceptives are not as fool proof as people think, changing many lives as a result.
The sucess rate is 98%. Its better than definitley getting aids.
See sometimes those negatives can be turned into a positive, and help create a better world.
A better world where pregnancy, STD's and conservatism run rampant.
A better world where pregnancy, STD's and conservatism run rampant.
You don't get it do you? The more the word gets out about these things, the less likely other people will make the same mistakes their predecessors made. Ergo a better world with less STD's, less abortions, etc is created out of that.
Ausinus
12-10-2006, 08:18 PM
You don't get it do you? The more the word gets out about these things, the less likely other people will make the same mistakes their predecessors made. Ergo a better world with less STD's, less abortions, etc is created out of that.
Basically, in your view, abstinence is the only way. :mad:
ITS CALLED CIVIL LIBERTY! SEX IS NOT BAD!
Its just that you are so conservative, according to you humanism never happened. Man makes himself - Jean Paul Sartre.
Basically, in your view, abstinence is the only way. :mad:
ITS CALLED CIVIL LIBERTY! SEX IS NOT BAD!
I never said Sex is bad. Sex is a beautiful thing, but not in the way we use it today. It's meant for one man and one woman to share together. Not one man and 8 different women, or 1 woman and 8 different men.
Ausinus
12-10-2006, 08:22 PM
I never said Sex is bad. Sex is a beautiful thing, but not in the way we use it today. It's meant for one man and one woman to share together. Not one man and 8 different women, or 1 woman and 8 different men.
Once again, civil liberty. I will have sex with which ever non relative and as many of them as i want thank you, and no law can stop me.
"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States".
SO TAKE THAT!:p :p :p
Once again, civil liberty. I will have sex with which ever non relative and as many of them as i want thank you, and no law can stop me.
"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States".
SO TAKE THAT!:p :p :p
Well then I feel sorry for you. I really do. One day I hope you understand why your life was so unfulfilling, and why you're so miserable. Cause as I see it, with the path you're going down that's what's going to happen. I only pray that you realize it before it's too late.
Ausinus
12-10-2006, 08:31 PM
Well then I feel sorry for you. I really do. One day I hope you understand why your life was so unfulfilling, and why you're so miserable. Cause as I see it, with the path you're going down that's what's going to happen. I only pray that you realize it before it's too late.
Excuse you. My life has been extremely fulfilling and happy.
I have visited many countries in the world. I have a great job and a beautiful, intelligent girlfriend, lots of money, i give to charity, i love my school, I have great friends, kind and intelligent parents, and I know a fucking lot of knowledge.
If that aint happy, then you have problems.
Excuse you. My life has been extremely fulfilling and happy.
I have visited many countries in the world. I have a great job and a beautiful, intelligent girlfriend, lots of money, i give to charity, i love my school, I have great friends, kind and intelligent parents, and I know a fucking lot of knowledge.
If that aint happy, then you have problems.
On the surface it may seem to be, but if you keep going down the road you are, that could change. Remember money does not buy happiness. True happiness can only come from God, not from anything of this earth.
Ausinus
12-10-2006, 08:36 PM
On the surface it may seem to be, but if you keep going down the road you are, that could change. Remember money does not buy happiness. True happiness can only come from God, not from anything of this earth.
No. But i give to charity, which gives me happiness. I buy great gifts for my friends and relatives, which gives me happiness. And the fact i demmonstrate by money making abilities as effective gives me happiness.
Im sure that Socrates and the other ancient greeks were REALLY unhappy without god. And I am truly happy. Except for the fact that scum like you keep spouting this crap. If you convince a happy person they are unhappy about not being with god, thats just evil.
No. But i give to charity, which gives me happiness. I buy great gifts for my friends and relatives, which gives me happiness. And the fact i demmonstrate by money making abilities as effective gives me happiness.
Im sure that Socrates and the other ancient greeks were REALLY unhappy without god. And I am truly happy. Except for the fact that scum like you keep spouting this crap. If you convince a happy person they are unhappy about not being with god, thats just evil.
I'm only calling things as I see them, a spade a spade as it were. And hey it's great you do these things, charity and things of that nature. There's nothing wrong with that. But as much happiness as that may bring you (and I'm sure it makes you feel good about yourself and that sort of thing), the one thing that completes us is God and God alone.
Ausinus
12-10-2006, 08:41 PM
I'm only calling things as I see them, a spade a spade as it were. And hey it's great you do these things, charity and things of that nature. There's nothing wrong with that. But as much happiness as that may bring you (and I'm sure it makes you feel good about yourself and that sort of thing), the one thing that completes us is God and God alone.
No the thing that will complete me is dying having done good works and knowing that when im utterly gone i will be remembered through them.
Stop trying to prosyletize.
No the thing that will complete me is dying having done good works and knowing that when im utterly gone i will be remembered through them.
Stop trying to prosyletize.
I'm not, I'm speaking truth. You may not want to believe that but it is truth.
Ausinus
12-10-2006, 08:47 PM
I'm not, I'm speaking truth. You may not want to believe that but it is truth.
Your empirical evidence being?
God? Are You there? I know a great deal about You. I've read the bible three or four times cover to cover. I'm aware that You're omniscient and omnipotent so therefore You are surely aware that I'm an atheist and I don't believe in You. It's not that I'm positive that You don't exist, it's just that I'm not positive that You do, or that the bible is correct. I'm not sure if the bible is meant to be interpreted literally or figuratively and neither is anyone else. If it's interpreted literally, then Your chances of being real are right up there with hitting the lottery in every state, every week, for ten years in a row. Being an omniscient god, I'm sure You already knew that.
If there is a god/creator, then the more reasonable thing that comes to mind is that You are there, but just don't care. You can not possibly care about humanity in the slightest. And... why would You care about humanity? Why would an all powerful deity who sits amongst and amidst the heavens need little pets, much less actually create the universe for the purpose of having such little pets? Little pets who live and die so quickly must be annoying as gnats to You.
It's just not possible that You, who spans the universe and is beyond time would need saccharine adorations mouthed through frightened lips and from bended knees to satiate some insecurity based need for approval from we, Your imperfect creations, which You perfectly created to be imperfect. But, I digress. Being omniscient, I'm sure You already know this, oh Lord.
I would look to Your church leaders for guidance Lord, but they aren't exactly doing a very good job of representing You. They're hateful and angry and strike out against anyone who doesn't believe the same way they do. I'm sure you've seen the countless people they have killed in Your name over the last few thousand years.
Lord, now they're even killing abortion doctors. I don't know what to think, Lord. I know that Romans 13 says to be loyal to the government because it only exists because it's Your will. That means we should obey the laws and the laws say abortion is legal but killing abortion doctors isn't. I know that the ten commandments say "Thou shalt not kill." I also know that to punish some people in the past You have sent Your people to destroy them and "cut open the bellies of the pregnant women" so I'm confused as to who to believe on this. Some of Your preachers say abortion should be legal and some say we should kill the abortion doctors.
I need advice on so many things, Lord. I know the bible says You're a loving God, but I'm confused. Please help me. I don't understand why You created people the way You did even though, according to the bible, at least 75% of the world's population will be going to hell. Lord, there are hundreds of millions of people who "claim" to be Christians in the world and about six billion people total in the world. Why would You create five billion people on the earth today just to send them to hell? You knew ahead of time that they would go to hell, so if You're loving why did You make them like that in the first place?
As I said, I have tried to consult Your representatives here on earth, but they could only offer "free will" as an explanation. They say people have a choice and people pay the penalty for making the wrong choices. I'm sure, being all knowing, that You can see what a helpless bit of information that is. Clearly if You are all knowing then You know ahead of time what will happen to each of us, and You could change it, but You don't. Obviously we can't change it because You made us the way You did and gave us the challenges and experiences that You did, knowing ahead of time exactly what we would do and what the repercussions of those actions would be. Free will for a person created by an all knowing and all powerful deity is, quite frankly, impossible, as I'm sure You know.
I have so many questions, Lord. I try to talk to your religious leaders here, but they seem so confused. Some have even posted women as Preachers, Lord. Can You believe it? In Your bible Corinthians clearly states "The women should keep silence in the churches...For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church". Timothy also says "Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent". These modern preachers say that slavery is wrong, but I know the bible allows slavery as a completely normal activity and even lays down some ground rules for how to buy and sell slaves as well as disciplining them. Who am I to believe, Lord?
Am I to believe Adam and Eve and the seven day creation literally or figuratively? Did You actually create the world in 7 of our days, or was it millions of years which seem like mere days to You? All of Your leaders here are in contention, so who do I believe?
I'm lost, Lord. I'm lost. I am going to be tormented in hellfire forever. I don't mean to offend You. I simply don't understand. I don't know who to believe. I'm confused, Lord. Please take just one moment out of infinite time and save my soul. I beg of You. Show me the truth. Just speak to me. Tap me on the shoulder and tell me "This is the way to salvation, My son". I beg of You, Lord. Please help me. What would it take for You to send a clear message? Nobody agrees on what the bible means, so please, You're all powerful and all knowing, please send us something more tangible and save billions of souls from going to hell. Please, Lord? Please? I don't want to go to hell. Please show yourself.
Love, Christopher
From thewaronfaith.com :D
That's a shame because I actually thought you were serious there for a minute. If you had been I can assure you He would have answered your query. It's not too late to ask seriously you know. Cause as the saying goes: "Ask and you shall receive".
Ausinus
12-10-2006, 09:04 PM
That's a shame because I actually thought you were serious there for a minute. If you had been I can assure you He would have answered your query. It's not too late to ask seriously you know. Cause as the saying goes: "Ask and you shall receive".
So if i ask for god to cure all disease in the world, it will happen?
There is a questionnaire I want you to take.
http://www.religionisbullshit.net/christianquestion.php
who897
12-10-2006, 09:21 PM
I think it's funny that they think they know other peoples emotions/feelings in life through a forum. It's kinda cute.
Ausinus
12-10-2006, 09:23 PM
I think it's funny that they think they know other peoples emotions/feelings in life through a forum. It's kinda cute.
How come you always hear "Omg your an atheist, you know your gonna go to hell right?" but you never hear "Omg your a jew, you know youre gonna go to hell right?"
Hey go to religionisbullshit.net it is so true!:D
JOHN LOCKE IS THE TRUE SAVIOUR OF HUMANKIND!:D :D :D
MrBirdy
12-10-2006, 11:25 PM
No not really, because I cannot force them to change their position on the matter. The only thing I can do is attempt to get them to understand why it's wrong in the hope it will change their minds. Ultimately however, they still have to the decision to make, not me.
How is being gay wrong?
Ausinus
12-10-2006, 11:28 PM
How is being gay wrong?
He says its because gay sex doesnt bring forth new life and its a perverse form of gratification blah blah blah
How is being gay wrong?
It's not in and of itself, it's acting on it that is.
Ausinus
12-10-2006, 11:47 PM
It's not in and of itself, it's acting on it that is.
Haha ajk all my friends just said you should go live in Iran with the other conservatives.
Haha ajk all my friends just said you should go live in Iran with the other conservatives.
Go ahead laugh now, but I can assure come your end there will be no more laughing for you.
So if i ask for god to cure all disease in the world, it will happen?
As I've said before, with God anything is possible.
Ausinus
12-10-2006, 11:48 PM
Oh im real scared. Im going to burn in hell! Pfft.
Oh im real scared. Im going to burn in hell! Pfft.
You and all like you will see, you'll have good reason to be scared then I will assure you.
MrBirdy
12-10-2006, 11:50 PM
Well then I feel sorry for you. I really do. One day I hope you understand why your life was so unfulfilling, and why you're so miserable. Cause as I see it, with the path you're going down that's what's going to happen. I only pray that you realize it before it's too late.
I just hope, that on your death bin, you will not realize that you are gone, and gone forever you will realize that praying and preaching still will end your life. They you will realize that you wasted hours which you will never get back, hours you could have spent having fun, or even studying, or working, maybe even help open up your own buissiness, you know...
If I am wrong, god i a trully sorry for doubting your existence, and i go to heaven.
If your wrong, you will realize that you could have done so much more, and you will beg for forgiveness, but it wont work.
Ausinus
12-10-2006, 11:52 PM
Wouldnt it be funny if god was a black gay? Then youd be sorry.
I just hope, that on your death bin, you will not realize that you are gone, and gone forever you will realize that praying and preaching still will end your life. They you will realize that you wasted hours which you will never get back, hours you could have spent having fun, or even studying, or working, maybe even help open up your own buissiness, you know...
My life on this earth will end yes in the physical sense. But my soul will last eternal regardless of where it goes. The same goes for all of us alive today.
Ausinus
12-10-2006, 11:55 PM
My life on this earth will end yes in the physical sense. But my soul will last eternal regardless of where it goes. The same goes for all of us alive today.
So what is the soul made of then?
This might not make any sense to you, but the soul is made of light. The Bible states we are to be a light for all the world. Obviously once we're dead, we no longer can share anything because the soul (or light) has gone from the body.
Ausinus
12-11-2006, 12:02 AM
This might not make any sense to you, but the soul is made of light. The Bible states we are a light for all the world. Obviously once we're dead, we no longer can share anything because the soul (or light) has gone from the body.
In that case, the second law of thermodynamics says that it would eventually bleed out its energy through heat loss.
In that case, the second law of thermodynamics says that it would eventually bleed out its energy through heat loss.
Interesting theory, except how can the body bleed without being cut open first in some way? Beyond that the blood doesn't flow anymore after a person has died does it, since the heart isn't pumping blood anymore. Also, doesn't the body simply decay after the person has died?
Ausinus
12-11-2006, 12:09 AM
Second law of thermodynamics.
"The entropy of an isolated system not in equilibrium will tend to increase over time, approaching a maximum value at equilibrium."
Which means energy transfers from places to more to less energy. If your theory were true, the soul would be lost due to heat during life.
Second law of thermodynamics.
"The entropy of an isolated system not in equilibrium will tend to increase over time, approaching a maximum value at equilibrium."
Which means energy transfers from places to more to less energy. If your theory were true, the soul would be lost due to heat during life.
I think you may have misunderstood me (and maybe I myself as well), it's a metaphor rather being literal. Obviously if the soul was literal light it wouldn't survive after a time now would it? But in the metaphorical sense that what's our soul is, or is to be. A light to shine on a world full of darkness. Once we die, that "light" goes out of the body since it cannot "shine" in a body that is no longer living.
Ausinus
12-11-2006, 12:19 AM
I think you may have misunderstood me (and maybe I myself as well), it's a metaphor rather being literal. Obviously if the soul was literal light it wouldn't survive after a time now would it? But in the metaphorical sense that what's our soul is, or is to be. A light to shine on a world full of darkness. Once we die, that "light" goes out of the body since it cannot "shine" in a body that is no longer living.
Then what is it? If it is the source of our consciousness it must be matter or energy.
It is energy, energy that comes from God, hence why when we die, that energy is gone from the body.
Ausinus
12-11-2006, 12:31 AM
Then the second law still stands. It applies to any energy. If god were ALSO energy, then it would apply too.
Its basic physics.
MrBirdy
12-11-2006, 12:33 AM
It is energy, energy that comes from God, hence why when we die, that energy is gone from the body.
]
Are you saying that god is here on earth, and is made from solar radiation, AJK?
]
Are you saying that god is here on earth, and is made from solar radiation, AJK?
In a sense I suppose you could say that, as he exists in all of us, and can see all that goes on, being present in everything, everywhere (even here at home where I am typing this from)
Ausinus
12-11-2006, 12:41 AM
But do you agree that God is made of energy?
Yes I do, because if He was not made up of energy, none of what we have today would exist. Why? Because He used the energy he had to create all that is and all that will be, which is all made up of energy.
More here:
http://www.unhinderedliving.com/energyGod.html
Ausinus
12-11-2006, 12:51 AM
Yes I do, because if He was not made up of energy, none of what we have today would exist. Why? Because He used the energy he had to create all that is and all that will be, which is all made up of energy.
More here:
http://www.unhinderedliving.com/energyGod.html
How Spinozan of you.
However this doesnt take into account the fact of the first law. Basically, god could not have used this energy and retained said energy. Thus every time he uses his powers he gets weaker.
How Spinozan of you.
However this doesnt take into account the fact of the first law. Basically, god could not have used this energy and retained said energy. Thus every time he uses his powers he gets weaker.
Maybe He has unlimited energy? He is God after all.
who897
12-11-2006, 12:54 AM
If your so called god didn't aprove of gays why are their rainbows? If I didn't like someone using my shit for some reason I'd take it away. This only proves that if there is a god, it likes getting pounded in the ass or getting it's snatch licked. The only energy transfer that happens when we die is that of a worm getting some food to metabolize. Unless of course the phermaldahide keeps it from eating us, but what ever is left the bacterium will more then gladly take to continue it's reproductive process.
If there was a god w/ unlimited energy, don't ya think we'd develop something to I don't know detect something that massive?
Ausinus
12-11-2006, 12:58 AM
Maybe He has unlimited energy? He is God after all.
Ah but there is only finite energy in the universe.
The First Law states:
"The increase in the internal energy of a thermodynamic system is equal to the amount of heat energy added to the system minus the work done by the system on the surroundings."
Therefore we can say that god's energy is finite. Unless there is another source of energy for god. Which would contradict the theory all energy came from god.
Therefore we can say that god's energy is finite. Unless there is another source of energy for god. Which would contradict the theory all energy came from god.
What about all the angels and saints in Heaven? Surely they would be able to provide any energy he needs to keep things going if need be.
Ausinus
12-11-2006, 01:02 AM
What about all the angels and saints in Heaven? Surely they would be able to provide any energy he needs to keep things going if need be.
But if we say that all energy comes from god, then that means that for god's energy to be the same from the time of creation, all energy would be within god and there would be no universe.
If your so called god didn't aprove of gays why are their rainbows?
Rainbows existed long before this "gay and lesbian movement" started using it.
If there was a god w/ unlimited energy, don't ya think we'd develop something to I don't know detect something that massive?
Are familiar with the saying seek and you shall find? Well that more or less applys here. If don't look for Him, you'll never find Him.
But if we say that all energy comes from god, then that means that for god's energy to be the same from the time of creation, all energy would be within god and there would be no universe.
I'm not sure I follow.
Ausinus
12-11-2006, 01:13 AM
I'm not sure I follow.
God's energy = e
Before of creation of the universe, e = x
Energy currently in the universe = n
God uses n amount of this energy to create the universe. Therfore gods energy after creation must be
e = x - n
Now in order for god to have the same energy as he did before then we have to add the amount of energy in the universe, which would = n
For e to = x we must add n
So e = x - n + n
The two n's cancel each other out. And we are left with e = x
From this, we can say that if god possessed all the energy in the universe before creation, and he used some of that energy during creation, then in order for him to have the same energy as before creation he must have all the energy currently in the universe. Which the laws of physics do not permit him to do.
Who said He had the same energy after creation? Maybe He didn't, but still had some energy to keep things going until He could be replenished as it were.
Ausinus
12-11-2006, 01:27 AM
Who said He had the same energy after creation? Maybe He didn't, but still had some energy to keep things going until He could be replenished as it were.
But then god is continually getting weaker, perhaps he doesnt exist anymore at all due to loss of energy if he even did exist at one point.
Which is again could be partly the reason for the angels and saints, to keep him from losing all his energy.
Ausinus
12-11-2006, 01:31 AM
However, if souls did come from god, then his energy would still be decreasing due to the birth rate being higher than the death rate.
And creating more angels would also mean a decrease in energy.
Ausinus
12-11-2006, 01:38 AM
Also, if we say souls are energy, then they would dissipate due to heat loss during a persons life, which means god would get no energy income.
Taken from the site link I posted earlier:
"There is a scientific law that states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, it simply changes form (conservation of energy). To be more precise, it states that in a closed system (our universe, for the purposes of our discussion) energy is conserved. In other words, all the energy that ever existed, that was present at the beginning, still exists."
Ausinus
12-11-2006, 01:46 AM
Taken from the site link I posted earlier:
"There is a scientific law that states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, it simply changes form (conservation of energy). To be more precise, it states that in a closed system (our universe, for the purposes of our discussion) energy is conserved. In other words, all the energy that ever existed, that was present at the beginning, still exists."
But not within god. Just in the universe.
But not within god. Just in the universe.
Couldn't that apply to God too since He created the universe, and all of the universe is Him? If that were the case God would not need to dispense anymore energy, rather the energy He initially created would transform itself in different ways. For example a couple has a baby. In doing that they are using the energy they already have in them to bringforth that new life.
Ausinus
12-11-2006, 01:51 AM
Couldn't that apply to God too since He created the universe, and all of the universe is Him?
How could it? We manipulate energy, does that mean we manipulate god? Again, if the universe was god, then we would remain in the universe when we died. And it also means there is no such thing as heaven or hell.
Additionally, if that were true then god cannot defy the laws of physics, as all energy conforms to the laws of physics.
And, if all the energy in the universe is god, then that means we are god. If the stuff of our souls was the same stuff as god there would be no separation of consciousness.
Read the rest of my post, I added something to it.
Ausinus
12-11-2006, 01:55 AM
Ok, it still doesnt change the arguement.
How could it? We manipulate energy, does that mean we manipulate god?
Yes you could say that, everything came from his energy
Again, if the universe was god, then we would remain in the universe when we died. And it also means there is no such thing as heaven or hell.
We do remain in the universe when we die, but only the body. The soul separates itself from the body when we pass away. Hence why when a person dies, no electrical brainwaves can be recorded anymore. If the soul was still in the body don't you think those brainwaves could still be recorded somehow?
Additionally, if that were true then god cannot defy the laws of physics, as all energy conforms to the laws of physics.
Well that maybe so, but have you considered it could be that God made it so that the energy continues to exist in one form or another instead of just going away? Energy is constantly being reused somewhere somehow in one form or another.
And, if all the energy in the universe is god, then that means we are god. If the stuff of our souls was the same stuff as god there would be no separation of consciousness.
Not neccessarily, we maybe one with Him and made up of Him, but we are not Him entirely. If we were we'd have the answers to every question that could ever be posed which we don't.
As for the other part, it's there but it has to be tapped into in order to really realize that it is. As I said before, seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened to you.
Ausinus
12-11-2006, 02:17 AM
We do remain in the universe when we die, but only the body. The soul separates itself from the body when we pass away. Hence why when a person dies, no electrical brainwaves can be recorded anymore. If the soul was still in the body don't you think those brainwaves could still be recorded somehow?
But if the soul was god's energy, and god was the universe, then the soul must remain in the universe. Hence, no heaven or hell.
The electrical energy simply dissipates as heat since the body no longer supplies energy to the brain.
Anyway, as i said before if the soul was energy it would dissipate due to heat loss. And if the soul was our conciousness then all energy lost from us would allow us to see beyond our physical body.
Not neccessarily, we maybe one with Him and made up of Him, but we are not Him entirely. If we were we'd have the answers to every question that could ever be posed which we don't. As for the other part, it's there but it has to be tapped into in order to really realize that it is. As I said before, seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened to you.
-_- We are one with him, and made up of him but we are not him. I say again, if the energy in the universe was one consciousness, then logically the electrical energy in our brains and our souls are the same consciousness. Energy is constant. The reason we have variation is due to physical brain variation an development.
?
And if the soul was our conciousness then all energy lost from us would allow us to see beyond our physical body.
Not if our main source of conciousness is mostly still inside the body itself. When the entire soul leaves the body at the end of life, then we can see beyond the physical body.
Seth=L
12-11-2006, 02:52 PM
Well I just finished reading this entire thread. It is very interesting reading some arguments, quite frankly I find it humerous and more or less entertaining to see these far stretched arguments.Our country's laws and the Laws of Physics don't really connect with the arguments here.
The soul, I don't believe it to be a physical energy, but rather a spiritual energy. We don't have spiritual testing equipment to test it, so no one can prove that it exists or if it doesn't. Same with God. God has unlimited power and with that power created physical space, it is that simple.
Why do you think that God is bound by the laws of physics? Someone or some being that is all powerfull is not limited by physics. If God was limited by physics, then God would not be all powerful. If you believe what is written in the Bible in reference to God's power, then Physics or anything for that matter would be able to constrain his power.
Our country's laws (citizen's rights) have no conection to God in respect to what is right or wrong. The original thread topic was "why do religious folk hate gays?" The answer to that question is most religions don't hate the person, but rather the acts they do. I am Christian, I have gay friends, and I by no means hate them.
In God's eyes sin is sin, no matter it's measure in human feelings. People view murder and rape as very evil things, and indeed they are sins. But, lying is also a sin that God does not view as being any different in it's severity. Humans believe in different levels of severity depending on the wrong. Some humans have no grasp on what it right or wrong. One person may view stealing as something they don't feel that it is wrong, just as gays don't believe that they are doing anything wrong.
This is not to say that someone is a bad person because of their actions, though some actions like rape and murder make it very difficult to agree with that statement, and I am certain that there are bad people.
Attraction is very similar to temptation, If it was tempted to steal and apple and followed through, it was a sin. If someone was tempted to have sex with a same sex partner and followed through, it was a sin.
Concerning how fun it is not to have God in your life, I simply don't understand. Define freedom! One can have a very fulfilling life when one walks with God. Just look at the beautiful world we live in, there are so many sights and wonders in this world that one person could never see them all. And humanity was given ingenuity and with it we mold what we have been given. Unfortunetly we have greedy people in this world that would rather make tons of money that they could never possibly spend, and all they do is work themselves to death to have money, so they can buy stuff. It is human sin that causes our world pain, and you want to deny God because you are so happy spending money and all that stuff. The world is in need of redemption.
Now I am sure you guys have plenty to nitpick about, but when it comes down to it, it is what you believe to be true that matters, not what you know. There is no way to prove your own existance, just because we all lack the understanding to prove it.
Ausinus
12-11-2006, 05:13 PM
Not if our main source of conciousness is mostly still inside the body itself. When the entire soul leaves the body at the end of life, then we can see beyond the physical body.
But if the soul is energy, then it would still dissipate due to heat loss during life.
Ausinus
12-11-2006, 05:21 PM
Well I just finished reading this entire thread. It is very interesting reading some arguments, quite frankly I find it humerous and more or less entertaining to see these far stretched arguments.Our country's laws and the Laws of Physics don't really connect with the arguments here.
The soul, I don't believe it to be a physical energy, but rather a spiritual energy. We don't have spiritual testing equipment to test it, so no one can prove that it exists or if it doesn't. Same with God. God has unlimited power and with that power created physical space, it is that simple
Why do you think that God is bound by the laws of physics? Someone or some being that is all powerfull is not limited by physics. If God was limited by physics, then God would not be all powerful. If you believe what is written in the Bible in reference to God's power, then Physics or anything for that matter would be able to constrain his power.
Yes In fact, i do think god would be constrained by the laws of physics. Perhaps you should learn more about them before you completey dismiss them.
Our country's laws (citizen's rights) have no conection to God in respect to what is right or wrong. The original thread topic was "why do religious folk hate gays?" The answer to that question is most religions don't hate the person, but rather the acts they do. I am Christian, I have gay friends, and I by no means hate them
In God's eyes sin is sin, no matter it's measure in human feelings. People view murder and rape as very evil things, and indeed they are sins. But, lying is also a sin that God does not view as being any different in it's severity. Humans believe in different levels of severity depending on the wrong. Some humans have no grasp on what it right or wrong. One person may view stealing as something they don't feel that it is wrong, just as gays don't believe that they are doing anything wrong.
Then why do many protestant churches allow gay sex? Its your conservative bullshit which prevents them from getting the rights they deserve. I would say that your veiws on contraception have killed more people than gay sex.
This is not to say that someone is a bad person because of their actions, though some actions like rape and murder make it very difficult to agree with that statement, and I am certain that there are bad people.
Attraction is very similar to temptation, If it was tempted to steal and apple and followed through, it was a sin. If someone was tempted to have sex with a same sex partner and followed through, it was a sin.
Why is it a sin? God will tell me what to do with my dick when he prys my cold dead fingers off around of it.
Concerning how fun it is not to have God in your life, I simply don't understand. Define freedom! One can have a very fulfilling life when one walks with God. Just look at the beautiful world we live in, there are so many sights and wonders in this world that one person could never see them all. And humanity was given ingenuity and with it we mold what we have been given. Unfortunetly we have greedy people in this world that would rather make tons of money that they could never possibly spend, and all they do is work themselves to death to have money, so they can buy stuff. It is human sin that causes our world pain, and you want to deny God because you are so happy spending money and all that stuff. The world is in need of redemption.
I am very content. It amazes me that you are prognostic enough to tell me I am not happy over the internet. Perhaps it is you that is unhappy.
And God didnt make me; I evolved from primates.
If anything, you are less free because you are constrained by your obsolete religion. Get a new belief system; HUMANISM! JOHN LOCKE IS MY SAVIOUR!:D
Now I am sure you guys have plenty to nitpick about, but when it comes down to it, it is what you believe to be true that matters, not what you know. There is no way to prove your own existance, just because we all lack the understanding to prove it.
Cognito ego sum; I think therfore I am - Rene Descartes.
Study some philosophy you homophobic fuckwit.
Seth=L
12-11-2006, 06:12 PM
Yes In fact, i do think god would be constrained by the laws of physics. Perhaps you should learn more about them before you completey dismiss them.
Then why do many protestant churches allow gay sex? Its your conservative bullshit which prevents them from getting the rights they deserve. I would say that your veiws on contraception have killed more people than gay sex.
Why is it a sin? God will tell me what to do with my dick when he prys my cold dead fingers off around of it.
I am very content. It amazes me that you are prognostic enough to tell me I am not happy over the internet. Perhaps it is you that is unhappy.
And God didnt make me; I evolved from primates.
If anything, you are less free because you are constrained by your obsolete religion. Get a new belief system; HUMANISM! JOHN LOCKE IS MY SAVIOUR!:D
Cognito ego sum; I think therfore I am - Rene Descartes.
Study some philosophy you homophobic fuckwit.
One thing is for certain, I never said you weren't happy. I simply said walking with God can complete someone and in turn they are happy.
I am not dismissing Physics, they apply to our universe. Note: Some Laws of Physics have been disproven. At one time it was against the laws of Physics to create a working V8 engine, that was obviously not true.
But all things considered, God is a spiritual being that has power in the physical realm. I do not believe that God is a Physical being.
Why is homosexuality a sin, because if you believe in God, and God does not welcome homosexuality, then you believe that it is a sin. Well not you obviously, but that isn't the point. There is no proving or disproving the existance of God. There is also no proving or disproving that Homosexuality is a sin. And just for fun, there is no proving or disproving that murder is a sin. We just believe these things to be wrong or not wrong
Why do protestant churches allow gay sex? I don't know, I am not protestant.:D
And one more thing, before you slam me with long words, be sure you know exactly what they mean.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/contraception
Contraception is forced, I am not forcing you to do anything. I am simply voicing my opinions and beliefs. If you don't want to hear it or read it, then you don't have to.
And I can assure you that your derogatory statements will not get you anywhere but looking very silly.
Seth=L
12-11-2006, 06:34 PM
Ohh no, give em the book, the book will feed them, the book will clothe them, the book will shelter them........The book will protect them from STD's, I'm just trying to figure out how you get the book to cover your penis enough to get enjoyment and protection.
This is were you may think you have something, but you don't. God doesn't want people to behave like ignorant fools, hence the Bible would lead you to a STD free life more than likely if you soak it in.
Ausinus
12-11-2006, 06:34 PM
Im soz, im just passionate about gay rights. They have the right to do what they want to each other sexually.
Ausinus
12-11-2006, 06:36 PM
This is were you may think you have something, but you don't. God doesn't want people to behave like ignorant fools, hence the Bible would lead you to a STD free life more than likely if you soak it in.
Tell that to the people in africa who have got aids because missionaries give them bibles and not condoms and sex ed. Its as despicable as what Mother Theresa did.
Seth=L
12-11-2006, 06:38 PM
Tell that to the people in africa who have got aids because missionaries give them bibles and not condoms and sex ed. Its as despicable as what Mother Theresa did.
There is a conspiracy that our government made the AIDS virus and sent it to Africa, maybe they sent it in the bibles and it was initially an airbourne virus.:D
Ausinus
12-11-2006, 06:38 PM
There is a conspiracy that our government made the AIDS virus and sent it to Africa, maybe they sent it in the bibles and it was initially an airbourne virus.:D
Dont joke about AIDS.
Seth=L
12-11-2006, 06:41 PM
Im soz, im just passionate about gay rights. They have the right to do what they want to each other sexually.
It isn't like I am effecting the tide. Our government has given gays more rights and will likely continue that trend. I have had a similar discussion with my gay friend, I have not broken any ground and don't expect to. I just try because I believe that I should.
Ausinus
12-11-2006, 06:43 PM
It isn't like I am effecting the tide. Our government has given gays more rights and will likely continue that trend. I have had a similar discussion with my gay friend, I have not broken any ground and don't expect to. I just try because I believe that I should.
Well then do what you will.
In australia we have a Gay Lesbian Mardi Gras. Its so fun:D :D
Seth=L
12-11-2006, 06:56 PM
Australia, your location says Seattle, you try to confuse!!!
who897
12-11-2006, 07:17 PM
This is were you may think you have something, but you don't. God doesn't want people to behave like ignorant fools, hence the Bible would lead you to a STD free life more than likely if you soak it in.
What like cutting off my fucking dick? Not interacting with anyone? Neither of which is a failsafe for an STD free life. Remeber you can get STD's without sexual contact.
They have a homosexual parade mardi gras'ish thing in Key West FL annually. Funnier then hell, never seen that many assless chaps in one day LOL.
Seth=L
12-11-2006, 07:44 PM
What like cutting off my fucking dick? Not interacting with anyone? Neither of which is a failsafe for an STD free life. Remeber you can get STD's without sexual contact.
They have a homosexual parade mardi gras'ish thing in Key West FL annually. Funnier then hell, never seen that many assless chaps in one day LOL.
It didn't say it was the end all, just that it improves things.
Ausinus
12-11-2006, 07:57 PM
Australia, your location says Seattle, you try to confuse!!!
Im australian, but i live in seattle now.
Ausinus
12-11-2006, 07:58 PM
It didn't say it was the end all, just that it improves things.
No its doesnt. The human body isnt made for abstinence. COndoms improve things.
No its doesnt. The human body isnt made for abstinence. COndoms improve things.
Do condoms completely prevent pregnancy? I rest my case.
Ausinus
12-11-2006, 08:13 PM
Do condoms completely prevent pregnancy? I rest my case.
Does the bible. No.
Does the bible. No.
It's teachings (abstience) do. So there.
General Septem
12-11-2006, 08:22 PM
But by hating the acts, you are denying them the right to personal freedom. I am so happy the humanist movement happened.
JOHN LOCKE,THOMAS JEFFERSON AND GERMAINE GREER RULE:D
Does hating murder deny someone the right to personal freedom?
Ausinus
12-11-2006, 08:33 PM
Does hating murder deny someone the right to personal freedom?
Murder is detrimental to someone. Gay sex isnt.
General Septem
12-11-2006, 09:02 PM
Murder is detrimental to someone. Gay sex isnt.
Yes it is, it's detrimental to society.
Seth=L
12-11-2006, 09:06 PM
Yes it is, it's detrimental to society.
Only if you believe it to be, and I agree, because I believe it does as well. It doesn't make near the impact that murder does. I wouldn't be friends with someone I knew to be a murderer.
Ausinus
12-11-2006, 09:20 PM
Only if you believe it to be, and I agree, because I believe it does as well. It doesn't make near the impact that murder does. I wouldn't be friends with someone I knew to be a murderer.
Prove it. Name one way it is WITHOUT referring to god or sin.
Seth=L
12-11-2006, 09:27 PM
It cannot be proven.:D GOD, SIN.:D
Also note that it can't be proven that it isn't bad, negative, or any derogative word or statement.
It is just belief, at least it is to me.
General Septem
12-11-2006, 09:28 PM
Prove it. Name one way it is WITHOUT referring to god or sin.
Sex is the most intimate physical connection a couple can share, and as such it is only logical that it be saved for the one you will spend the rest of your life with. When this connection is cheapened, the bonds of marriage are more likely to fall apart, and when marriages fall apart, families fall apart. Families are the core of society.
Gay sex is an insult to the marital act because it is a perversion of the natural act of sexual intercourse. It would be like flying the flag upside down or drawing a hand with its middle finger outstretched on someone's tombstone.
Ausinus
12-11-2006, 09:32 PM
Sex is the most intimate physical connection a couple can share, and as such it is only logical that it be saved for the one you will spend the rest of your life with. When this connection is cheapened, the bonds of marriage are more likely to fall apart, and when marriages fall apart, families fall apart. Families are the core of society.
That is bullshit. Why can't gays have an intimate physical connection too? They are people.
And what do you call the 1/3 divorce figure. Secular society, mate. You dont have to be married to live anymore.
Gay sex is an insult to the marital act because it is a perversion of the natural act of sexual intercourse. It would be like flying the flag upside down or drawing a hand with its middle finger outstretched on someone's tombstone.
No its not a "perversion" its called another use for it. I bet you dont complain when straight couples have anal sex, or do cunnulingus, or blowjobs?
Seth=L
12-11-2006, 09:35 PM
I bet you dont complain when straight couples have anal sex, or do cunnulingus, or blowjobs?
Oh, here it comes. I'll bet money....lots of money.:D
Ausinus
12-11-2006, 09:35 PM
It cannot be proven.:D GOD, SIN.:D
Also note that it can't be proven that it isn't bad, negative, or any derogative word or statement.
It is just belief, at least it is to me.
Well my belief is that gays are people two, they love, they care. They should be allowed to express their love throught the medium of sex. Otherwise its stripping them of the right to have sex with whom they love in that way.
Brains_Behind_Operation
12-11-2006, 11:49 PM
Oh, here it comes. I'll bet money....lots of money.:D
You got it! Taking all Bets! Giving 4 to 1 odds that the General will point out how wrong these acts are for straight couples! Any takers?
General Septem
12-12-2006, 06:04 AM
That is bullshit. Why can't gays have an intimate physical connection too? They are people.
They can, but not between two men or two women. The problem is that by saying two men can have the same relationship as a man and a woman, they are insulting and undermining the very core behind the relationship between a man and a woman. There are great differences between men and women, and a relationship between a man and a woman is complimentary because they make up for each other's faults and become one flesh. That's not to say two men can't love each other but they cannot become one flesh. It would be like a world dominated by Napoleon but no Ghandi, as opposed to a world where we have the balance of both.
And what do you call the 1/3 divorce figure. Secular society, mate. You dont have to be married to live anymore.
I call it lack of committment. Homosexuality isn't the only thing undermining the sanctity of marriage, but if you don't think marriage is important to society you are gravely mistaken. I recommend taking psychology.
By the way, society isn't all that secular. Atheism is in the minority.
No its not a "perversion" its called another use for it. I bet you dont complain when straight couples have anal sex, or do cunnulingus, or blowjobs?
Not necessarily. These can be used as acts of foreplay between married couples and it's fine, so long as it is a means and not an end.
My apologies to whomever lost their bet. :D
Seth=L
12-12-2006, 09:43 AM
My apologies to whomever lost their bet. :D
Draht, I guess it is a good thing I don't have any money to bet.:D
Ausinus
12-12-2006, 08:50 PM
*cough*double standard*cough*:D
Maybe we shouldn't legalise religious gay marriages, just gay civil marriages and adoption.
Seth=L
12-12-2006, 08:54 PM
*cough*double standard*cough*:D
Maybe we shouldn't legalise religious gay marriages, just gay civil marriages and adoption.
You know that isn't a bad idea, at least it keeps religion out of the loop. That still doesn't mean I agree with it though.
Ausinus
12-12-2006, 08:57 PM
You know that isn't a bad idea, at least it keeps religion out of the loop. That still doesn't mean I agree with it though.
I like you very much. Thanks for not being a conservative like other people:D
Seth=L
12-12-2006, 09:25 PM
I like you very much. Thanks for not being a conservative like other people:D
I try to be empathetic, unlike another certain member who threatens people with hell all the time..ehem, and I understand were you are coming from. I have a few Atheist friends as well. One of them is very bright, ah who am I kidding, he is a genious and makes me feel insignificant sometimes.:D
Ausinus
12-12-2006, 09:29 PM
Hehe. Your much better than the fundies. I get all sorts of crap. eg:
"Omg, your atheist, you know you're gonna go to hell right?"
"Jesus still loves you"
"Jesus doesnt like you"
"You'll be sorry when your time comes"
"Atheism is a SIN"
"Blah blah god blah blah sin blah blah hell etc"
I try to be empathetic, unlike another certain member who threatens people with hell all the time..ehem, and I understand were you are coming from. I have a few Atheist friends as well. One of them is very bright, ah who am I kidding, he is a genious and makes me feel insignificant sometimes.:D
I'm assuming you are referring to me on that. For the record I am not "threatening" them by telling them they could go to Hell if they keep believing as they believe. I say those things out of love for the person. I don't want my fellow brother or sister to go to Hell.
Ausinus
12-12-2006, 09:31 PM
I'm assuming you are referring to me on that. For the record I am not "threatening" them by telling them they could go to Hell if they keep believing as they believe. I say those things out of love for the person. I don't want my fellow brother or sister to go to Hell.
Mate, the only way your my brother is through evolution.:D
Mate, the only way your my brother is through evolution.:D
We are all brothers and sisters in Christ.
Ausinus
12-12-2006, 09:34 PM
We are all brothers and sisters in Christ.
IF he even existed.
IF he even existed.
Which He did.
Ausinus
12-12-2006, 09:38 PM
Which He did.
Evidence please.
Evidence please.
from the website gracethrufaith.com:
The evidence for the existence of Jesus is incontrovertible. Even His enemies agree. The Jews made reference to Him in their Talmud, a companion to their Scriptures. The Jewish historian Josephus, an eyewitness to these things, wrote about him. So did Mohammed when writing the Koran. According to a Time magazine cover story Buddhist documents contain reference to Him.
Scholars who've set out to prove once and for all that Jesus didn't exist have been forced by the evidence to change their minds, often becoming believers in the process. The most famous of these are C.S. Lewis, Josh MacDowell and Simon Greenleaf, a legendary Harvard law professor who "wrote the book" on admissible courtroom evidence. Applying his own rules to the gospels, he concluded that Jesus had to have existed.
There are over 5000 historical source documents to support the validity of the New Testament, much more than any other ancient book. All the Gospels were published within the lifetimes of eyewitnesses, and yet there's no record of anyone ever refuting their veracity.
The Romans tried for 250 years to stamp out Christianity before accepting it as their state religion. By that time the New Testament had been a published fact for two centuries.
The Bible recounts a 6000 year history of God first saying He'll do something and then doing it. We call it prophecy, and the secular history books are full of proof of its validity. He did this so that you and I could be absolutely certain of His existence, if we just took the time to look for Him.
And most obviously of all, the Creation shouts evidence of His existence. Even good science agrees that this could not have happened spontaneously.
But let's disregard all that. If I'm wrong and Jesus didn't exist, all I've done with my life is try to live a little better, helping out some others now and then, and when I die I'll go to the destiny that was always mine.
But if you're wrong, when you die you'll learn that you could have had an eternal life of joy and happiness, and missed out simply because you refused to look into it.
Psalm 53 begins, The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." Saying something in your heart means saying it from an emotional perspective. Even a fool can't deny God on a logical basis. The evidence for His existence is simply too overwhelming.
Seth=L
12-12-2006, 09:48 PM
I'm assuming you are referring to me on that. For the record I am not "threatening" them by telling them they could go to Hell if they keep believing as they believe. I say those things out of love for the person. I don't want my fellow brother or sister to go to Hell.
For the record, yes.
"I love you, do you believe in God?
"No sir, I do not."
Then YOU ARE GOING TO BURN IN HELL...AAAAAAAAAHHHHHGG!!!
:D:D:D:D
Ausinus
12-12-2006, 09:49 PM
We dont accept The Koran or the Talmud as historical evidence for the same reason as we dont the bible.
Even christian historians have admitted that the Josephus article in question was forged, some 30 years after his death.
I want an internet article written by an objective author please. It is obvious this person is very devout.
This article omits the '5000' other sources. I want names please.
Alright then, maybe this link will help:
http://www.probe.org/content/view/18/77/
It mentions references from Non christian sources.
Seth=L
12-12-2006, 09:51 PM
I want scrambled eggs please.. I apoligize for silly posts in advance.:D
Probe? that doesn't sound good.:D
who897
12-12-2006, 09:54 PM
What is wrong w/ trying to cheapen marrige? Marrige is an institution and who wants to be instatutionalized?
Ausinus
12-12-2006, 10:00 PM
Alright then, maybe this link will help:
http://www.probe.org/content/view/18/77/
It mentions references from Non christian sources.
Tacitus simply refers to Chrestus, a very common name for slaves in the roman empire. He is simply stating an uncontroversial belief. This article also omits the many other messanaic uprisings recorded in Judea.
Lucian's article is the same. He could be referring to many other messanaic uprisings recorded in this era. Many of them perpetrated by the zealots.
Once again, the Josephan article's validity is disproven.
The talmud is not accepted as a historical source, just like the bible and the koran.
Pliny's article simply states the beliefs of the christians, as do the others. Not one of them actually records the existence of christ as a person.
I am not saying Jesus DIDNT exist i am saying IF he existed. He could well have existed.
I think I have found something that will convince you.
Pilgrims who travel to Israel to walk where Jesus walked may soon have something new to connect them with the life and ministry of Jesus Christ.
Scholars have recently examined a box carved out of soft limestone, made to hold the bones of a first-century Jew. On its side is carved an Aramaic inscription, "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus."
Got it from here: http://www.ctlibrary.com/ct/2002/octoberweb-only/10-21-11.0.html
Ausinus
12-12-2006, 10:09 PM
I am a historian. I need more than a couple of fragments to convince me. Until the historical community issues a statement saying "this is irrefutable evidence that christ existed", Im not changin my veiw.
I do believe that he wasnt the son of god, I just dont believe that he did or didnt exist.
How is that not proof? The word's are right there.
Ausinus
12-12-2006, 10:18 PM
How is that not proof? The word's are right there.
Could be a forgery. Could have been a common jewish name. Could have been a mistranlation. Or coincidence. They need to match it up to other historical evidence. If we took it on one source, then everyone would still believe that the bible is entirely true.
Ausinus
12-12-2006, 10:20 PM
Anyway this isnt the place to discuss the existence of christ. This is to discuss how many denominations of christianity hate homosexuality and donot give them sexual freedom.
Alright well take a look at the actual photo of the inscription:
http://rsingermanson.com/html/james__bone_box.html
Ausinus
12-12-2006, 10:24 PM
Alright well take a look at the actual photo of the inscription:
http://rsingermanson.com/html/james__bone_box.html
Still could be a forgery. And historians are still not sure if this is THE James son of Joseph brother of Jesus OF NAZARETH.
who897
12-12-2006, 11:13 PM
I thought they would be speaking some form of greek...not aramaic.
Ausinus
12-12-2006, 11:52 PM
Ooooo, guess what ajk. Scientist proved it was ANOTHER forgery. Sucks to Jesus.
Oh really? Let's see the proof of that then.
Ausinus
12-13-2006, 12:05 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Ossuary
Ok so I was wrong on this one. Doesn't change the fact that truth is truth, no matter who disagrees.
Ausinus
12-13-2006, 12:14 AM
Ok so I was wrong on this one. Doesn't change the fact that truth is truth, no matter who disagrees.
And how are you so sure its truth?
I trust in God, and with that trust comes the faith and conviction I hold to be able to know something without actually seeing it.
Ausinus
12-13-2006, 12:26 AM
Well as for me, an empiricist, I need empirical evidence.
But there are some things that simply cannot be proven that way. If you think that way, you'll never get any evidence. You just have to accept things like this as they are.
Ausinus
12-13-2006, 12:49 AM
That is called faith. And faith is for people who want to beliebe in something other than the harshness of reality.
That is called faith. And faith is for people who want to beliebe in something other than the harshness of reality.
No that IS reality when all is said and done as you will find. What we do here, what happens here won't mean a damn thing when we come to face to face with our maker.
Ausinus
12-13-2006, 01:24 AM
What you mean evolution?
Brains_Behind_Operation
12-13-2006, 04:09 AM
That is called faith. And faith is for people who want to beliebe in something other than the harshness of reality.
The cold hard truth is that you have no solid evidence to prove that a god does not exist. Think for yourself, which false conclusion leads to a worse outcome?
Concluding that God Does Not Exist
Concluding that God does exist
Which correct conclusion leads to a better outcome?
Concluding that God Does Not Exist
Concluding that God does exist
Simple utilitarian logic concludes that even if there is a spector of a doubt, your best choice is to conclude that God does exist. Determining what God is or which religion is right is another argument all together, but we can at least accept that it is in our best interest to conclude that there is a God.
theicidal maniac
12-13-2006, 04:59 AM
Ok so there is this HUGE fucking database called the fossil record, right, pretty much irrefutably and indisputably shows that humans have been evolving for scores of thousands of years, and we have the missing links and there are literally BILLIONS of bones to show the actual progression from species to species, and on the other hand you have the creation story that cannot and never can be substantiated by or reconciled with what we KNOW to be true about the planet and the universe.
That said, I have a question for those of you who believe somehow in BOTH evolution and the literal truth of the creation story of Genesis. If God created us in his own image......following?.....and we have PROOF that we have evolved from neanderthal, australopithicus, etc to show that when we started we DID NOT look like we do know...Is God a caveman? and why do you worship him you damn retards!
theicidal maniac
12-13-2006, 05:06 AM
So you are talking about LOGIC....yet you fail to recognize the FUNDAMENTAL principle that NOTHING can be proved to NOT exist. It is logically impossible. You can never, NEVER prove that something does NOT exist, God, Loch Ness monster, Santa Claus, teacups orbiting jupiter, flying spaghetti monsters. But if someone makes a proposition that a thing DOES exist we should be able to test that it, and as it turns out, none of the supporting arguments for God hold up to scrutiny, whereas scientific claims that counter those made by theists seem to be constantly verified.
All you have offered is a semantic trick that is centuries old and all but forgotten by current philosophers. Why is it that theist always try to use science to prove their cause, they embrace it when they think it supports them, but when it does not all the sudden science is unreliable?
General Septem
12-13-2006, 07:20 AM
*cough*double standard*cough*:D
Maybe we shouldn't legalise religious gay marriages, just gay civil marriages and adoption.
I disagree with gay adoption, and I know lesbians who feel the same way. She feels like she's been through enough just having been born the way she was, she doesn't want to put that on someone else in addition.
theicidal maniac
12-13-2006, 01:17 PM
your thinking is totally flawd here. Y would you assume that gay people will raise gay children. Heterosexuals raise children that can turn out to be straight or bi a gay or asexual...
Ausinus
12-13-2006, 05:15 PM
stupid ass christian values. its like the humanism movement never happened.:mad:
General Septem
12-13-2006, 09:46 PM
your thinking is totally flawd here. Y would you assume that gay people will raise gay children. Heterosexuals raise children that can turn out to be straight or bi a gay or asexual...
Even if the kids weren't gay, they'd have to deal with their parents being gay.
General Septem
12-13-2006, 09:47 PM
stupid ass christian values. its like the humanism movement never happened.:mad:
What do you consider humanism?
Ausinus
12-13-2006, 09:49 PM
Philosophy. a variety of ethical theory and practice that emphasizes reason, scientific inquiry, and human fulfillment in the natural world and often rejects the importance of belief in God.
From dictionary.com
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