Confession

[Ausinus]

Here is an issue going on in Australia right now. Odds are the govt. will vote yes, but want some opinions.

Do you think that if a person reports something illegal they do or is happening during confession, that priests should be required to testify against them if called to court?

I say yes.

[ohreally]

Yes. If people are stupid enough to admit it to a priest rather then admit it through prayer then why not.

[Ausinus]

I'm gonna be 19 next week and still am a virgin, a fact I'm proud of.

Too bad for you. I lost it when I was 16.

[ajk]

Too bad for you. I lost it when I was 16.

I'd say it's the other way around.

[Ausinus]

Ajk, what is your opinion on the post's main question?

[ajk]

I would say no if they reported having done it, simply because first off the priest is not allowed to talk about what a person has confessed to him outside of the confessional, and second how would anyone know who he confessed to anyway?

Now if it was actually happening during the confession itself, then I would say yes because the priest is technically a witness.

[Ausinus]

I would say no if they reported having done it, simply because first off the priest is not allowed to talk about what a person has confessed to him outside of the confessional, and second how would anyone know who he confessed to anyway?

Now if it was actually happening during the confession itself, then I would say yes because the priest is technically a witness.

Ok. Thanks for your input.:D

[ajk]

You're quite welcome. :)

How did this all come about incidentally?

[Ausinus]

You're quite welcome. :)

How did this all come about incidentally?

Basically a girl got raped and the rapist confessed it to a preist, and the police found out he confessed due to another witness but the preist wouldn't say. So basically the high court ruled that not giving a testimony counted as obstruction of justice.

We have something in Australia called common law, which is set by court precedent, as opposed to statute law which is made by the government. So the common law then became that any preist who refused to give testimony gained due to confession obstructed justice. Now making common law into statute law is called codification and can only be approved by the government.

So they are basically voting on yes or no to make it permanent or not. And they probably will say yes because most of the government officials are either atheist or protestant and dont believe in confession.

[ajk]

Basically a girl got raped and the rapist confessed it to a preist, and the police found out he confessed due to another witness but the preist wouldn't say. So basically the high court ruled that not giving a testimony counted as obstruction of justice.

We have something in Australia called common law, which is set by court precedent, as opposed to statute law which is made by the government. So the common law then became that any preist who refused to give testimony gained due to confession obstructed justice. Now making common law into statute law is called codification and can only be approved by the government.

So they are basically voting on yes or no to make it permanent or not. And they probably will say yes because most of the government officials are either atheist or protestant and dont believe in confession.

Hmm interesting. How could anyone else know he had confessed to the priest to start with? I don't understand how that could be.

[Ausinus]

Hmm interesting. How could anyone else know he had confessed to the priest to start with? I don't understand how that could be.

Basically they found out he went to a church after the rape due to witnesses in the area. So they asked people who were at the church at the time in that area and found he DID go into a confessional. At that church there is only one preist in the confessional so they interviewed him.

[ajk]

Ah I see that would make sense then.

[Ausinus]

Ah I see that would make sense then.

Plus I think the guy confessed he went to a confessional too, and he thought he would be safe from the preist's testimony.

[thememan]

Here is an issue going on in Australia right now. Odds are the govt. will vote yes, but want some opinions.

Do you think that if a person reports something illegal they do or is happening during confession, that priests should be required to testify against them if called to court?

I say yes.

Well, I would consider no, at least under US law. Confession is something that, in Catholocism, is strictly meant as a private matter. The priest is only considered the mediary between the person and God, in a sense. So, the utmost secracy must be maintained in order to keep it private, for various religious reasons.

Now, under US law, such would violate many consitutional rights.

For instance, it would be abridging the First Amendment, as it would interfere with religious practices.

It would also mean that it would abridge "Right to Privacy", as it is rather similar to that of one's medical records.

Not to mention that it could be considered "hearsay" in court, and in some US courts may not be used as evidence.

That being said, I have no idea how the Australian system is set up, so I have no real idea.

[England Expects]

That's great if that's happening over there.

Why should anyone worry about the constitutional rights of a rapist?

If he wanted absolution, he should have started by going to the police himself. Instead he's gone for the "If I tell God I'm sorry then I'm OK and let the victim suffer" that Catholics rely on so much.

[thememan]

That's great if that's happening over there.

Why should anyone worry about the constitutional rights of a rapist?

If he wanted absolution, he should have started by going to the police himself. Instead he's gone for the "If I tell God I'm sorry then I'm OK and let the victim suffer" that Catholics rely on so much.

Well, the same holds true for Psyschiatrists. It's a privacy issue, not a religious one. A good Catholic priest would tell the rapist to turn him in, but not turn him in himself. That would be a betrayal of the purpose of confession.

Also, the reason why we care about the constitutional rights a rapist is solely based on the idea of innocence. If we do not protect the rights of all, we have no rights ourselves. Not all whom are tried, nor all whom are convicted, are guilty, my friend, and there is no stopping the innocent from being found guilty of crimes they did not commit, if we do not protect the rights of everyone.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Does the Australian Government not allow sanctuary?

A person confesses to a Priest because he is confessing to God. The law of God (under the assumption that God exists) is above the law of any human court system.

If you do not allow a person to hold privacy in church then you are only encouraging them to resist following their faith based on the outcomes it has in the physical world. If there truly is a God we are then helping to decide for them whether or not they deserve salvation in the afterlife. This is definately a power that no human or human society has any right to.

[England Expects]

"Also, the reason why we care about the constitutional rights a rapist is solely based on the idea of innocence."

Understood thememan, but an innocent man doesn't admit rape.

"If you do not allow a person to hold privacy in church then you are only encouraging them to resist following their faith based on the outcomes it has in the physical world."

Think about this mans victim BBO. Would you feel the same if it was your Mother, Wife, Sister or Daughter that was raped. By not reporting this, he is compounding the victims suffering.

[thememan]

"Also, the reason why we care about the constitutional rights a rapist is solely based on the idea of innocence."

Understood thememan, but an innocent man doesn't admit rape.


Yes, however hearsay is very rarely allowed in court, for such reason. How does one know that the man truly confessed such a thing? How does one know the person is not lying? How does one know the person whom he confessed to is not lying?

Not to mention that a Priest takes vows of privacy in such manner, and to break them is never considered good a good thing in almost all religious that do confessions.

I'm not siding with the rapist on this, however I am siding on the side of the privacy of confessions. If this privacy is not upheld, then what of medical records? Both follow the same principle of privacy, but only under the most strict and rare of circumstance can they be obtained. And only under very, very rare circumstances are testimonies in which someone had been told a confession used.

[Ausinus]

We dont have the fourth amendment in australia, they can get medical records, etc. whenever they want. Besides, most of the current govt. (the conservative party btw) dont believe in confession so they dont give a fuck.

And the Aussie legal system is based of both the US and British system.

[Ausinus]

Oh Ive got some new info on the topic. Apparentley they are delaying the vote until after next years election cos the catholic community made some noise. But it is still technically law until it is codified.

[MrBirdy]

Basically a girl got raped and the rapist confessed it to a preist, and the police found out he confessed due to another witness but the preist wouldn't say. So basically the high court ruled that not giving a testimony counted as obstruction of justice.

We have something in Australia called common law, which is set by court precedent, as opposed to statute law which is made by the government. So the common law then became that any preist who refused to give testimony gained due to confession obstructed justice. Now making common law into statute law is called codification and can only be approved by the government.

So they are basically voting on yes or no to make it permanent or not. And they probably will say yes because most of the government officials are either atheist or protestant and dont believe in confession.

Whatever this whole argument is about, how much do you think it would cost me to buy a house in australia?

or atleast rent.

[Ausinus]

Whatever this whole argument is about, how much do you think it would cost me to buy a house in australia?

or atleast rent.

They're fucking expensive. A good house is about 1 million AU.

[General Septem]

Here is an issue going on in Australia right now. Odds are the govt. will vote yes, but want some opinions.

Do you think that if a person reports something illegal they do or is happening during confession, that priests should be required to testify against them if called to court?

No. First of all, it's an invasion of the separation of Church and state. Second, it is an invasion of privacy. Third, when someone goes to Confession, it's because they wish to repent, and you'd basically be taking that away from them, and that's the last thing you want.

I really don't think the investigators have any trouble figuring out crimes as it is, they don't need to stick their nose in our shit.

[Ausinus]

No. First of all, it's an invasion of the separation of Church and state. Second, it is an invasion of privacy. Third, when someone goes to Confession, it's because they wish to repent, and you'd basically be taking that away from them, and that's the last thing you want.

I really don't think the investigators have any trouble figuring out crimes as it is, they don't need to stick their nose in our shit.

But in oz we only have de facto separation of church and state.:D

[General Septem]

But in oz we only have de facto separation of church and state.:D

That doesn't invalidate the rest of my argument.

[Ausinus]

That doesn't invalidate the rest of my argument.

Nah im just telling you:D

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Think about this mans victim BBO. Would you feel the same if it was your Mother, Wife, Sister or Daughter that was raped. By not reporting this, he is compounding the victims suffering.


Yes, I would feel the same. I would be outraged that he did such a thing, but the only thing that the local government would do to this man is punish him anyways. If he is repenting to God through confession then he is displaying himself to the highest power that exists and begging forgiveness. I am definately humble enough to trust that God will deal with him as he deserves and I will still stand for his right to freedom of religion and privacy inside of it.