View Full Version : In God We Trust = Bloody Bullshit
Ausinus
12-13-2006, 01:35 AM
What the fuck is with having "In God We Trust" on all the US currency? What happened to E Pluribus Unum? Also, REMOVE "UNDER GOD" from the Pledge of Alleigance! How can "with liberty and justice for all" follow when its not liberal and just for atheists, agnostics, and secular humanists?:mad:
"I pledge alleigance to the flag of the united church of america.":mad: :mad: What happened to the first Amendment?!
What the fuck is with having "In God We Trust" on all the US currency? What happened to E Pluribus Unum? Also, REMOVE "UNDER GOD" from the Pledge of Alleigance! How can "with liberty and justice for all" follow when its not liberal and just for atheists, agnostics, and secular humanists?:mad:
"I pledge alleigance to the flag of the united church of america.":mad: :mad: What happened to the first Amendment?!
You do realize that when the Constitution was created, christian values was at the core of it right?
Ausinus
12-13-2006, 02:11 AM
You do realize that when the Constitution was created, christian values was at the core of it right?
Thomas Jefferson was a closet humanist everyone knows that.
To which christian values to you refer? They are humanist ideas; who the hell do you think John Locke was?
"Give the church a place in the Constitution, let her touch once more the sword of power, and the priceless fruit of all ages will turn to ashes on the lips of men."
.........."Individuality", 1873, in Ingersoll's Works, Vol. 1, p. 203
Brains_Behind_Operation
12-13-2006, 04:18 AM
What the fuck is with having "In God We Trust" on all the US currency? What happened to E Pluribus Unum? Also, REMOVE "UNDER GOD" from the Pledge of Alleigance! How can "with liberty and justice for all" follow when its not liberal and just for atheists, agnostics, and secular humanists?:mad:
"I pledge alleigance to the flag of the united church of america.":mad: :mad: What happened to the first Amendment?!
The first amendment was based on the idea that there is some power greater than us, but no one person can say exactly which that is. It follows the general understanding that there is a God but leaves it up to each individual person to understand just what God was on their own terms, not forcing one religion on the entire population as the countries that had been fled were prone to do. People who did not believe in any God were much more rare in that day and less adamant about their beliefs.
How does it hurt you to leave things like this in our documents anyways? It does not in any way force you to believe in any one God or to believe in God at all. All that it really does is allow the (minority) atheists to laugh at the irony of its basis. Have a problem with it if you like, but you don't have to let it upset you. Show us your strength by realizing that it really does not make a difference, you still have the choice to believe whatever you want to believe while this supports the opinion of the vast majority.
theicidal maniac
12-13-2006, 04:33 AM
John Adams and James Madison were well known atheists, and there is much evidence to support jefferson's atheism, although there are quotes to the contrary as well. Atheism was alive and well and these men were as outspoken o that topic as they were on the topic of freedom. And deists were even more common
theicidal maniac
12-13-2006, 04:36 AM
You do realize that when the Constitution was created, christian values was at the core of it right?
I have NEVER seen Christ's name mentioned in these documents. EVER. You assume that because it says God in it that these were "CHRISTIAN" values? What a maroon. What a sheep! Baa-aa Baa-aa!
Don't try to mix truth and faith, they don't get along well.
MrBirdy
12-13-2006, 06:38 PM
What the fuck is with having "In God We Trust" on all the US currency? What happened to E Pluribus Unum? Also, REMOVE "UNDER GOD" from the Pledge of Alleigance! How can "with liberty and justice for all" follow when its not liberal and just for atheists, agnostics, and secular humanists?:mad:
"I pledge alleigance to the flag of the united church of america.":mad: :mad: What happened to the first Amendment?!
Republicans happend
Tradition happend
Censorship happend
plain and simple...
thememan
12-13-2006, 08:30 PM
You do realize that when the Constitution was created, christian values was at the core of it right?
Heh. HAHAHAHAHAHA. Ha.
Alright, the Constitution was basically created as a compromise between those who were for big business and those who were for small farmers. And all if it had to do with money, really. That was the main reason why teh Confederation failed(Which is what it was first), and the main reason why the Convention in Philidelphia was called into order. Also, at this time, Deism and Humanism was a growing fad in the world. Christian values really weren't on the fore front of the Constitution, but instead money.
thememan
12-13-2006, 08:34 PM
How does it hurt you to leave things like this in our documents anyways? It does not in any way force you to believe in any one God or to believe in God at all. All that it really does is allow the (minority) atheists to laugh at the irony of its basis. Have a problem with it if you like, but you don't have to let it upset you. Show us your strength by realizing that it really does not make a difference, you still have the choice to believe whatever you want to believe while this supports the opinion of the vast majority.
You do realize that "In God We Trust" was not added to US currency until the early 1950's, as way to "combat" the "godless Communist", do you not? The same holds true the "Pledge of Allegiance", where "Under God" was added, 60 years after it was written, without the consent of the original writer? Just wondering whether or not this is known by those whom claim it is tradition...
General Septem
12-14-2006, 06:34 AM
You're right. We should promptly replace on all of our monies "In God we Trust" with "Sue the Motherfuckers". I think it would much better symbolize the American dream.
In the mean time, if you don't want that religious babble on your money, I'd be glad to relieve you of it.
Ausinus
12-14-2006, 04:52 PM
Bugger off, Im keeping my money. Im just complaining about it:D
who897
12-14-2006, 07:18 PM
When swearing in for enlistment there is a big blank where ever the word god pops up. I thought it was an ad lib thing, apparently I was wrong, those folks don't seem to have a sense of humor.
Ausinus
12-14-2006, 08:24 PM
One thing I do like is how you can affirm instead of swear in at court.:D
who897
12-14-2006, 09:31 PM
Being a sailor and all, I swear just bout everywhere I go. Most people don't understand why, I think they should spend 6 months out in the ocean and see if they can keep from swearing up and down. Ill affirm to that. :D
Brains_Behind_Operation
12-15-2006, 02:35 AM
You do realize that "In God We Trust" was not added to US currency until the early 1950's, as way to "combat" the "godless Communist", do you not? The same holds true the "Pledge of Allegiance", where "Under God" was added, 60 years after it was written, without the consent of the original writer? Just wondering whether or not this is known by those whom claim it is tradition...
No, I did not know that this was added in so late. I guess I just have never seen any currency without those words or have ever heard the pledge of allegience in any other form. Everyone knows what happens when you assume :p
I guess the money does really give a false impression if taken for face value. But would it really be worth making such a change to all of our currency just because there are a few voicetrous atheists out there?
lynnifer21
12-15-2006, 04:31 AM
get your facts straight...
"
Despite long standing controversy and recent legal opposition to the current motto, the most common place it appears in daily life is on the money of the United States. The first United States coin to bear this national motto was the 1864 two-cent piece. It first appeared on U.S. currency on the back of Florida National Bank Notes in 1863. "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust
theicidal maniac
12-16-2006, 06:41 PM
NEVER cite wikipedia as a reference unless you are desperate. Do you know how wiki works...it isn't a reliable reference
lynnifer21
12-19-2006, 08:22 AM
http://www.treasury.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/in-god-we-trust.shtml
how's this?
says the same dang thing. In God We Trust has been on money since the 1800s.
theicidal maniac
12-19-2006, 03:37 PM
http://www.treasury.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/in-god-we-trust.shtml
how's this?
says the same dang thing. In God We Trust has been on money since the 1800s.
welL...THIS IS FROM THAT SITE:
"A law passed by the 84th Congress (P.L. 84-140) and approved by the President on July 30, 1956, the President approved a Joint Resolution of the 84th Congress, declaring IN GOD WE TRUST the national motto of the United States. IN GOD WE TRUST was first used on paper money in 1957, when it appeared on the one-dollar silver certificate. The first paper currency bearing the motto entered circulation on October 1, 1957. The Bureau of Engraving and Printing (BEP) was converting to the dry intaglio printing process. During this conversion, it gradually included IN GOD WE TRUST in the back design of all classes and denominations of currency."
welL...THIS IS FROM THAT SITE:
"A law passed by the 84th Congress (P.L. 84-140) and approved by the President on July 30, 1956, the President approved a Joint Resolution of the 84th Congress, declaring IN GOD WE TRUST the national motto of the United States. IN GOD WE TRUST was first used on paper money in 1957, when it appeared on the one-dollar silver certificate. The first paper currency bearing the motto entered circulation on October 1, 1957. The Bureau of Engraving and Printing (BEP) was converting to the dry intaglio printing process. During this conversion, it gradually included IN GOD WE TRUST in the back design of all classes and denominations of currency."
But that's PAPER MONEY, not money as a whole.
Ausinus
12-19-2006, 04:03 PM
The point is, its not fair to everyone. It disparages atheists and is untrue, whereas E Pluribus Unum is a true statement.
The point is, its not fair to everyone. It disparages atheists and is untrue, whereas E Pluribus Unum is a true statement.
Quit whining, it's been like that for years so why change it now? Just because a few people get their panties in a bunch? Please. That's just as bad as trying to get rid of the word Christmas.
The majority of this country is christian, you don't like it then you can leave.
Ausinus
12-19-2006, 04:33 PM
Hey, at least im trying to be equitable. And I intend to leave. Eventually.
Its just like saying, we've had apartheid for years so why change it now. Because it disparages people.
Hey, at least im trying to be equitable.
But in doing so you're taking away the rights of christians at the same time, who are much more in number then atheists. If you really think the US is gonna change something because 1 percent of the population doesn't like it, then you've got another thing coming.
Ausinus
12-19-2006, 04:36 PM
How is it a right? Taking it away doesnt mean we're putting "In god we do not trust" on the currency. Rather, there should be a true statement that is equitable for everyone like e pluribus unum or annuit copetus.
And I think the US might change it because it is a tantamount to the establishment of a state religion. And atheists arent as minor as you think, 14.5% mate.
And I think the US might change it because it is a tantamount to the establishment of a state religion. And atheists arent as minor as you think.
If they do change it, it would be just as bad as getting rid of the word Christmas IMO.
And atheists arent as minor as you think, 14.5% mate.
Still Christians way override you in number either way.
Ausinus
12-19-2006, 04:41 PM
Haha but I have the 1st amendment to back me up.
theicidal maniac
12-19-2006, 04:41 PM
But that's PAPER MONEY, not money as a whole.
HMMM...AND WHAT DO WE REALLY USE?
theicidal maniac
12-19-2006, 04:44 PM
If they do change it, it would be just as bad as getting rid of the word Christmas IMO.
neither of which would be a bad thing
Ausinus
12-19-2006, 04:45 PM
Lets call it Saturnalia, like it originally was!:D Or even Yule:D
General Septem
12-19-2006, 05:54 PM
HMMM...AND WHAT DO WE REALLY USE?
Actually in the 1800s, coins were the only thing they had, so while what we really use is paper money, what they really used was coins. So you've just made another point as to why it should stay; it's always been on the money we most frequently use.
theicidal maniac
12-19-2006, 06:05 PM
Actually in the 1800s, coins were the only thing they had, so while what we really use is paper money, what they really used was coins. So you've just made another point as to why it should stay; it's always been on the money we most frequently use.
How is that a point that it should stay? Oh yeah, I forgot, you are a retard. I should stop listening to your rambling, incoherent, desperate attempts at response......
General Septem
12-19-2006, 06:07 PM
How is that a point that it should stay?
If you'd actually read half my posts before responding to them, you wouldn't ask a quarter the questions you do.
Ausinus
12-19-2006, 07:16 PM
Maniac, please try to be civil.
who897
12-19-2006, 08:01 PM
Maniac, please try to be civil.
It's sometimes funny though ya gotta admit....sometimes.
theicidal maniac
12-19-2006, 08:03 PM
Actually in the 1800s, coins were the only thing they had, so while what we really use is paper money, what they really used was coins. So you've just made another point as to why it should stay; it's always been on the money we most frequently use.
Ok so i re-read this so i could give it a civil retort...and guess what...YOU WERE RIGHT! It really is "on the money we most frequently use." For instance, according to that link it was on the 3 cent piece and gold dollar...both of which i use liberally!
Ausinus
12-19-2006, 08:05 PM
Theres a three cent peice?
General Septem
12-19-2006, 08:09 PM
Ok so i re-read this so i could give it a civil retort...and guess what...YOU WERE RIGHT! It really is "on the money we most frequently use." For instance, according to that link it was on the 3 cent piece and gold dollar...both of which i use liberally!
Yes, the three cent piece and gold dollar were used excessively at the time. Those coins aren't in circulation anymore, but what they were eventually replaced by, paper money, still has the same inscriptions.
who897
12-19-2006, 08:10 PM
Theres a three cent peice?
When I use Oxy Acetilien to melt 3 pennies together that makes a 3 cent piece.
Ausinus
12-19-2006, 08:11 PM
Three cent piece. Hahaha, How unecessary!:D
I still find it hilarious you have dollar notes, pennies and quarter dollar coins.:D
General Septem
12-19-2006, 08:12 PM
When I use Oxy Acetilien to melt 3 pennies together that makes a 3 cent piece.
Really? I've been doing it wrong all this time then; I thought a three-cent "piece" was a round with a cheap hooker.
General Septem
12-19-2006, 08:12 PM
Three cent piece. Hahaha, How unecessary!:D
I still find it hilarious you have dollar notes, pennies and quarter dollar coins.:D
You don't have paper dollars in Australia?
Ausinus
12-19-2006, 08:14 PM
Nope. Our coins are 5c, 10c, 20c, 50c, $1, and $2. And our notes are $5, $10, $20, $50 and $100.
General Septem
12-19-2006, 08:16 PM
Nope. Our coins are 5c, 10c, 20c, 50c, $1, and $2. And our notes are $5, $10, $20, $50 and $100.
I like that better than our system, to be honest. No 1c though?
Ausinus
12-19-2006, 08:19 PM
Nope we got rid of the penny back in the...60s I think, or maybe the 70s.
Also, our notes arent paper anymore, they are now a plasticy sort of thing (Much more durable), and the notes are all different colours to make it easier to differenciate.
theicidal maniac
12-19-2006, 08:20 PM
Yes, the three cent piece and gold dollar were used excessively at the time. Those coins aren't in circulation anymore, but what they were eventually replaced by, paper money, still has the same inscriptions.
actually i have found a reference in David Ovason's book on dollar symbolism which mentions "continental currency" being PRINTED and used in america in 1797...printed refers to PAPER MONEY.
General Septem
12-19-2006, 08:23 PM
Nope we got rid of the penny back in the...60s I think, or maybe the 70s.
Also, our notes arent paper anymore, they are now a plasticy sort of thing (Much more durable), and the notes are all different colours to make it easier to differenciate.
That sounds like it'd be easier to go through when it's all in your wallet then. Ours aren't paper either, it's like a cotton fabric paper type thing. How do you calculate change then, with no pennies?
Ausinus
12-19-2006, 08:26 PM
We round it off to the nearest 5 cents
General Septem
12-19-2006, 08:27 PM
We round it off to the nearest 5 cents
How can you be sure you're not getting screwed?
who897
12-19-2006, 08:27 PM
That sounds like it'd be easier to go through when it's all in your wallet then. Ours aren't paper either, it's like a cotton fabric paper type thing. How do you calculate change then, with no pennies?
Everything they sell would be even. No more 199.99 specials.
Ausinus
12-19-2006, 08:28 PM
No they still sell things for 1.99 but they round it off.
who897
12-19-2006, 08:30 PM
No they still sell things for 1.99 but they round it off.
They round it up I would think....which isn't the same as 199.99. It would actually be 200. I'm picking nose hairs here :D
General Septem
12-19-2006, 08:41 PM
Kind of like how gas prices aren't really $3.26 but $3.269.
neither of which would be a bad thing
Yes it would be a bad thing. First off, in getting rid of God on money, it would be just another way to take God out of society, which is a shame.
And as far as Christmas goes, Christmas isn't just any old holiday. What Christmas is truly about is the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ, hence where the word Christmas comes from. People tend to forget about that message (the true meaning), in there haste to buy and buy and buy. It's not just about the gifts.
Ausinus
12-19-2006, 10:16 PM
Yes it would be a bad thing. First off, in getting rid of God on money, it would be just another way to take God out of society, which is a shame.
Not everyone trusts in god, which makes the motto false. Much better to have a true one, like Eleftheria i Thanatos or E Pluribus Unum.
And as far as Christmas goes, Christmas isn't just any old holiday. What Christmas is truly about is the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Your lord jesus. Not mine. And it is hardly about that anymore, we have become materialistic as a society. It is now about the coming together of people in peace and exchanging gifts.
December 25 was originally a pagan holiday which celebrated the birth of the sun or the festival of Natalis Sol Invictus, as part of the worship of Sol Invictus. The early church declared it the birth of christ deliberatley to coincide with the holiday.
Everything, from the tree, to the star, even the presents have pagan origins.
Not everyone trusts in god, which makes the motto false. Much better to have a true one, like Eleftheria i Thanatos or E Pluribus Unum.
Doesn't matter, God should not be taken out of society just because a few people don't believe in him. He created this world and all of us, so who are we to shun Him?
WRONG WRONG WRONG
December 25 was originally a pagan holiday which celebrated the birth of the sun, as part of the worship of Sol Invictus. The early church declared it the birth of christ deliberatley to coincide with the holiday.
Everything, from the tree, to the star, even the presents have pagan origins.
That I didn't know. But the point still stands nevertheless. For years it has been about the Lord's birth, which is how it should stay.
Your lord jesus. Not mine. And it is hardly about that anymore, we have become materialistic as a society. It is now about the coming together of people in peace and exchanging gifts.
Doesn't matter, though you may not believe in Him, he's still your God and your Lord Jesus regardless.
Ausinus
12-19-2006, 10:27 PM
Doesn't matter, God should not be taken out of society just because a few people don't believe in him. He created this world and all of us, so who are we to shun Him?
It matters, because it breaches the 1st Amendment and is a false motto, because not everyone (we) in this trusts in god, or the christian god to which it obviously refers.
And that idea God created the world and humanity, it hasnt been proven, so lets leave your religious ideas out of the equation ok.
It matters, because it breaches the 1st Amendment and is a false motto, because not everyone (we) in this trusts in god, or the christian god to which it obviously refers.
If they don't believe in it, all I can say is too bad. Majority rules, and the majority is christian.
Ausinus
12-19-2006, 10:33 PM
Hey, I personally know christians who want the motto changed for equity's sake. So dont think you speak for all christians in the US.
How is it unequal to christians to change the motto to something which appies to all the people, not just yourselves. Thats just selfish.
How is it unequal to christians to change the motto to something which appies to all the people, not just yourselves. Thats just selfish.
Because it's just another means of removing God from society. You do this then you do something else, and so on and so forth. It creates a vicious cycle.
Ausinus
12-19-2006, 10:39 PM
Ok, how is it vicious to request equality for everyone? Thats why I want it changed, so everyone can look at the motto and say, that applies to me.
Some highly religious countries have secular mottos. Even Iran has a secular motto. Lets follow that example.
lynnifer21
12-19-2006, 11:35 PM
If you would truly like to get rid of the motto because it is unfair, then perhaps we should make the seperation of church and state complete.
No Christmas Holiday time for anyone. If you are a christian you can call off work for a religious holiday.
Lets all work on Sunday and have stores all open the same times they are during the week.
Oh, forget Easter as well.
OH, and no Halloween parties in school.
Make it a clean break and see how the nation responds.
Prayer in schools was removed, and look at all the school violence we've had. You ask where God was, why he didn't intervene? We asked him to leave our schools and he respected the decision.
Brains_Behind_Operation
12-19-2006, 11:36 PM
Don't forget to let me buy my liquor on Sundays too!
Ausinus
12-19-2006, 11:42 PM
If you would truly like to get rid of the motto because it is unfair, then perhaps we should make the seperation of church and state complete.
Yay!
No Christmas Holiday time for anyone. If you are a christian you can call off work for a religious holiday.
Lets all work on Sunday and have stores all open the same times they are during the week.
Oh, forget Easter as well.
OH, and no Halloween parties in school.
Make it a clean break and see how the nation responds.
Those holidays are now secular enough to stay.:D Consider Easter Bunnies a graven image. And halloween is hardly religious.
Prayer in schools was removed, and look at all the school violence we've had. You ask where God was, why he didn't intervene? We asked him to leave our schools and he respected the decision.
That is a fallacious connection. We still have prayers in many schools in Australia and we have a lot of school violence. Its just you people facilitate it more because of gun availability.
Brains_Behind_Operation
12-19-2006, 11:44 PM
Those holidays are now secular enough to stay.:D Consider Easter Bunnies a graven image.
Nope. Even if you think so I am certain that there are plenty of voicetrous Atheists that will mindlessly argue that these holidays are also trying to force the Christian religion and force them to leave. It's all or nothing!
Ausinus
12-19-2006, 11:46 PM
If it means more secularism, then fine, get rid of them. Invent some new ones.
I long for a world wihtout religion.
Brains_Behind_Operation
12-19-2006, 11:48 PM
Why is that? How does religion hurt you so?
Ausinus
12-19-2006, 11:52 PM
It impedes societal growth. Abortion is still under review thanks to religion, Gays do not have the right to marry thanks to religion, hell even the government is partially motivated to war in the middle east by religion.
And I will never forgive what it has done in the past. Crusades, jihad, the inquisition, and all the thinkers who were held back because of it.
Religion is far too chronostatic for my tastes.
Brains_Behind_Operation
12-20-2006, 12:01 AM
so you can find a few things wrong with religion. I can find many more things wrong with any government system. That doesn't mean I want it to disappear. But it would be a good idea for it to change. Maybe religion would be much better off changing to what we need it to be, but removing it removes far too many good things, including our immortality.
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 12:06 AM
What is so wrong with being mortal? To put it in the words of Tolkien
"And to the race of men I will give a new gift, which in time, even the powers themselves will envy"
There is nothing provided by religion which we cannot replicate in secular society, save belief in something which may not even exist.
who897
12-20-2006, 10:41 AM
so you can find a few things wrong with religion. I can find many more things wrong with any government system. That doesn't mean I want it to disappear. But it would be a good idea for it to change. Maybe religion would be much better off changing to what we need it to be, but removing it removes far too many good things, including our immortality.
Yep, but just about every government you can touch, see, smell, and hear it's leader.
No one is immortal, so I don't know how that would be removed. If you talking bout the so called after life, well, ya apparently have to die to get there, which would make you mortal. Neat thing about most governements, they have checks in place to correct any deficency that may arise. Religion does not.
theicidal maniac
12-20-2006, 04:17 PM
we should have two seperate money systems, one witht the motto and one without. The one with the motto can be used to buy Jesus candles and yamulka's and Qur'ans and shit. The rest of the money that THE GOVERNMENT issues can be for purposeful stuff.
General Septem
12-20-2006, 05:31 PM
Now kids, if you don't stop fighting you're not getting any supper.
:rolleyes:
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