Blind Faith

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Many religious people follow blindly, claiming that God does not want us to question the religion. However, does God truly want us to avoid questioning our religion? TO just follow it blindly? What purpose would that serve? How does God benefit from our blind faith? It seems that he created us with an intelligence and expects us to question our existance and the truth. Any intelligent person would say that if something does not seem right you should question it until you get an answer that does appear to be right.

[Ausinus]

Tell that to the fundies.:D

[theicidal maniac]

deuteronomy answers your question pretty conclusively...the answer is, your God does not appreciate curiosity.

[General Septem]

deuteronomy answers your question pretty conclusively...the answer is, your God does not appreciate curiosity.

Give me a quote and I'll tell you why you're wrong.

[theicidal maniac]

i already did in a different posting and you plugged your ears and went "la la la la la"

[General Septem]

i already did in a different posting and you plugged your ears and went "la la la la la"

I said, give me a motherfucking quote.

[theicidal maniac]

and
i already did in a different posting and you plugged your ears and went "la la la la la"

you couldn't handle it

[Ausinus]

Can I hear the quote please? I havent seen/heard it before.

[theicidal maniac]

deut 13:6-9

[theicidal maniac]

and think of deut 13:10 as an afterthought

[Ausinus]

Hmmm, interesting. And true, it does discourage curiosity.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

That is one way that it could be interpreted, but it does not need to be. One other way it could be interpreted is "stone he who leads you to believe in the wrong God." It does not make clear that following some other religion is the problem, only if that religion follows another God.

However, the post is asking why God would want us to not question which is the right faith. I've stated many times that I can accept the fact that the bible was written by imperfect beings but can still be used for many good outcomes if read thoughtfully. This does nothing to answer my questions.

[theicidal maniac]

However, the post is asking why God would want us to not question which is the right faith. I've stated many times that I can accept the fact that the bible was written by imperfect beings but can still be used for many good outcomes if read thoughtfully. This does nothing to answer my questions.

Moby Dick can be used for good outcomes too. Why isn't anyone worshipping the God of Herman Melville? And ya know, there is nothing about Moby dick that tells people that if they kill someone who holds a different belief that they will be rewarded in an afterlife...I guess the reason people beleive the bible is cuz they wanna beleive there is an afterlife, no matter what the cost of getting there is..."just PLEASE don't tell us that when we die that's it!"

Wow, Jesse Ventura was right, religion really IS the crutch of the weak-minded.

[General Septem]

deut 13:6-9

That has nothing to do with curiosity.

[Ausinus]

Umm it does. It basically says anyone who is curious about other gods shall be put to death blah blah.

[ajk]

Umm it does. It basically says anyone who is curious about other gods shall be put to death blah blah.

That's because there's only one God for which we are to have no other false Gods before.

[theicidal maniac]

That's because there's only one God for which we are to have no other false Gods before.

effectively, that condemns curiosity

[theicidal maniac]

Most religions do not define evil as an act that causes suffering, but rather as a failure to follow God's commandments, and we see that if you believe in an omniscient, omnipotent God, you can not possibly act in manner which God did not map out for you. Clearly we need to look at the moral bankruptcy of this decree, but misplaced morals are not the only issue here. By seperating good and evil by the lines of who doees as God says and who does not, each and every one of us is doing exactly as programmed and therefore are committing no sins at all. By contrast if we define good and evil by human suffering, then the only one we have to blame in this scenario is God Itself for setting in motion the events that would lead to this suffering. Either way there is no good and there is no evil, there is only destiny if you believe in an omniscient, omnipotent God .

[General Septem]

Umm it does. It basically says anyone who is curious about other gods shall be put to death blah blah.
It condemns abandonment of the true God. Not curiosity regarding what the surface of the planet Mars looks like or some shit.

[theicidal maniac]

It condemns abandonment of the true God. Not curiosity regarding what the surface of the planet Mars looks like or some shit.

As I said before, it causes a person to put borders on the type of thinking that is acceptable. Sure you can be curious, BUT NOT ABOUT GOD! Jesus Christ that is the stupidest thingever, I mean, the fact that we HAVE religion is a good evidence that humans NATURALLY ARE CURIOUS about the nature of their genesis (so to speak). It is what religions ARE SUPPOSED TO EXPLAIN, but instead they just throw a bunch of claims out there and if they don't make sense...tuff, you are just supposed to beleive them or you are a blasphemer.

[General Septem]

As I said before, it causes a person to put borders on the type of thinking that is acceptable. Sure you can be curious, BUT NOT ABOUT GOD!

I'm curious about God. I'm curious as to His true nature. I'm not curious as to whether other "gods" exist or not because they don't. The quote is not about curiosity, it's about not abandoning God for some made-up god.

[theicidal maniac]

I'm curious about God. I'm curious as to His true nature. I'm not curious as to whether other "gods" exist or not because they don't. The quote is not about curiosity, it's about not abandoning God for some made-up god.

It also makes it cear that if anyone tries to pique your curiosity about other faiths, you are to kill him. So it actually IS about curiosity, John.

[General Septem]

It also makes it cear that if anyone tries to pique your curiosity about other faiths, you are to kill him. So it actually IS about curiosity, John.

Ah, no. And no true Christian believes in killing anyone anyway, unless it's in self-defense.

[Ausinus]

So pro-choice christians arent really christians then?

[General Septem]

So pro-choice christians arent really christians then?

Well, they fall short as far as the core Christian beliefs go, so in a sense. I mean, we all fall short, but the whole human life thing is pretty fucking big. Like we wouldn't be here if it wasn't for human life big.

[Ausinus]

Its not like abortion affects humanity's growth. Ever seen a chart of it, the only time it will stop is due to war, disease or running out of resources.

[General Septem]

Its not like abortion affects humanity's growth. Ever seen a chart of it, the only time it will stop is due to war, disease or running out of resources.

But it is an attack on human life. I could also say that if 20% of the world's disease cures were destroyed that we'd still have all the others, but what good does that do for someone with, say, polio?

[Ausinus]

That is true, we wouldnt be here if it werent for human life, but I still think the choice of the mother takes precedence over the potential life of the foetus.

But this isnt the place to discuss abortion, were getting off the topic.

[Ausinus]

Just a question for people. Why does god insist you worship him?

[theicidal maniac]

There are too many people in the world for us to not start PLANNING pregnancies. We don't need people having kids they never wanted and may not take care of.

[theicidal maniac]

Just a question for people. Why does god insist you worship him?

Yeah why is God so jealous and insecure? I mean, if he's all-powerful, he shouldn't feel threatened or intimidated. And if he is all knowing than he should realize it'll all work out in the end, eh?

[General Septem]

Yeah why is God so jealous and insecure? I mean, if he's all-powerful, he shouldn't feel threatened or intimidated. And if he is all knowing than he should realize it'll all work out in the end, eh?

He's not insecure. Why shouldn't one worship their Creator?

[who897]

He's not insecure. Why shouldn't one worship their Creator?

Because that's selfish. That an egocentric prick wanting everyone to notice them for their so called accomplishments is ohh wait for it wait for it, Vain or vane for get hot it's spelled. Isn't that a deadly sin?

[Ausinus]

Vanity, I think so.

[Ausinus]

No wait its pride.

[General Septem]

Because that's selfish. That an egocentric prick wanting everyone to notice them for their so called accomplishments is ohh wait for it wait for it, Vain or vane for get hot it's spelled. Isn't that a deadly sin?

Only because no human is better than their brother. God on the other hand is worthy of it, and rightly so.

[theicidal maniac]

Only because no human is better than their brother.

So you don't think that YOU YOURSELF are better than Hitler?


God on the other hand is worthy of it, and rightly so.

Let us also give thanks and praise to captain Ahab for defeating that monstrous Moby Dick!

[who897]

Only because no human is better than their brother. God on the other hand is worthy of it, and rightly so.


I guess being humble isn't a trait endowed upon your great master.

[Ausinus]

No but 'crunchy' must be one of the traits.:D

[General Septem]

So you don't think that YOU YOURSELF are better than Hitler?

No, and neither are you. We're all human, and we need to remember that.

[General Septem]

I guess being humble isn't a trait endowed upon your great master.

Humility is believing oneself to be as great as one is, and there is nothing greater than God.

[Ausinus]

I know im better than hitler because I dont blame all our problems on the jews.

[General Septem]

I know im better than hitler because I dont blame all our problems on the jews.

That doesn't make you better than Hitler, it makes you smarter and/or more logical than Hitler.

[Ausinus]

If you are smarter than someone you have bettered yourself more than someone.

[who897]

That doesn't make you better than Hitler, it makes you smarter and/or more logical than Hitler.

I know I'm better cuz I don't have that stupid fucking mustache

[Ausinus]

My great grandfather had a hitler mustache. It used to be popular:D

[General Septem]

If you are smarter than someone you have bettered yourself more than someone.

It doesn't make you better as a human being, just better in that one aspect. We're still all human.

[theicidal maniac]

all I'm saying is septems claim that no one is better than anyone elseis complete bullshit. Gandhi was a much better person than hitler in enough aspects to make him a better person period. It's time to erase the rediculous notion that God created humans equal...cuz being born in a Mexican border town is at a HUGE disadvantage compared to someone born to Bill and Melinda Gates. Someone born to a hick family in the Ozarks is at a huge disadvantage compared to someone born to a wealthy ivy-league alumni in Boston Mass. There is no such thing as natural justice or born equality.

[ajk]

Yes there is, we are all born as equals. No one person is better then another regardless of accomplishments.

[Ausinus]

We are not born equal, as we are not given the same opportunities in life. Disabled people, people born into poverty, do not have the same opportunites that we have had.

This is why we have charity and similar things, to give people equal opportunities. We arent born equal, but that isnt to say we shouldnt be equal.

[General Septem]

We are not born equal, as we are not given the same opportunities in life. Disabled people, people born into poverty, do not have the same opportunites that we have had.

Just because we aren't all born with the same opportunities doesn't make one better than the other.

[Ausinus]

My point is god is a hypocrite. Gods says humility is good but he aint humble.

I actually forgot why we were having this discussion XD

[who897]

My point is god is a hypocrite. Gods says humility is good but he aint humble.

I actually forgot why we were having this discussion XD

That's what I said.

[Ausinus]

Yeah but you didnt have it in big red letters.:D

[who897]

Only cuz I'm to lazy to figure out the red stuff. Ohh also, for that hyprocritcal thing....thou shall not kill/murder who ever the fuck, didn't "god" send their son down to be killed? That's a form of murder/manslaughter/killing/idioticbeliefs/stupid/sillychristiansmakemewannakickthem.
It was an accessory to the fact.

[Ausinus]

Heres a poem I made up about god.

God, God, He is a prick
He makes people fight, he makes people sick
He sits on his ass, up in the sky
Does virtually nothing, 'cept let people die.

:D

[who897]

Heres a poem I made up about god.

God, God, He is a prick
He makes people fight, he makes people sick
He sits on his ass, up in the sky
Does virtually nothing, 'cept let people die.

:D


I smell a pulitzer.

[Ausinus]

Why thank you:D

[General Septem]

My point is god is a hypocrite. Gods says humility is good but he aint humble.

God is about as humble as one can be, considering He has created everything in existence and even existence itself.

[Ausinus]

And your evidence for that please...?

[Seth=L]

And your evidence for that please...?
always with the evidence, with you.:D

[Ausinus]

I am an empiricist. I need evidence.:D

[ajk]

And your evidence for that please...?

Would egomanical dad allow his own son to die for the sins of all?

[General Septem]

And your evidence for that please...?

Evidence that He created everything?

You don't even believe God exists. And since both assertions rely on the Bible, and since we're talking about the same God, there's every bit as much evidence (God's word) that He created everything that we have that He wants us to worship Him.

Therefore, either God is not arrogant because He deserves His praise, or (as I do not believe) He is not arrogant because He does not exist. But He does exist and is either way not arrogant.

[Ausinus]

He is arrogant, as he wants you to worship only him.

[ajk]

That's not arrogant at all. It's the same thing as if your own human dad wanted you to you follow his rules while in his house. Same thing applies here, it's God's world we just live in it.

[Ausinus]

A dad doesnt demand you worship him and cause you to kill people in his name.(KKK and crusades).

[General Septem]

He is arrogant, as he wants you to worship only him.

If God deserves that much, how is that arrogant?

[Ausinus]

He hasnt proven he deserves it. If anything, if he exists, he deserves to go to the chair.

[General Septem]

He hasnt proven he deserves it. If anything, if he exists, he deserves to go to the chair.

If you believe He demands worship, then you must also believe He created everything. Your argument makes no sense.

[who897]

Yall should go have sex w/ your mother, brother, father, and sister. In fact your god says this is ok. Adam had to have sex w/ Eden to have a child. I don't know how many they had, but some incest has got to have played a part according to your little fairy tale story.

[Ausinus]

If you believe He demands worship, then you must also believe He created everything. Your argument makes no sense.

I do not believe he created everything, I am stating it in the hypothetical sense.

Look in your bible. The 1st comandment.

[General Septem]

I do not believe he created everything, I am stating it in the hypothetical sense.

Look in your bible. The 1st comandment.
You don't even believe the Bible was written by God, so how can you think God is a hypocrite?

[Ausinus]

You don't even believe the Bible was written by God, so how can you think God is a hypocrite?

HYPOTHETICAL!

[General Septem]

HYPOTHETICAL!

Hypothetically speaking, how can half the book be right and half of it be wrong? How can God exist but not be all-powerful?

[Ausinus]

Oh I give up. Im never going to convince you how ridiculous I think your faith is.

Just go to this website,

http://www.religionisbullshit.net/christianquestion.php

[General Septem]

Oh I give up. Im never going to convince you how ridiculous I think your faith is.

Just go to this website,

http://www.religionisbullshit.net/christianquestion.php
I know how ridiculous you think it is. I disagree. Now are you going to answer my question or are you going to admit the whole "God is arrogant" argument was bullshit?

[Ausinus]

I am saying "if" god exists then he is arrogant, for the purpose of argument.

And I do agree its bullshit, because I think the whole "god" thing is bullshit.

[General Septem]

I am saying "if" god exists then he is arrogant, for the purpose of argument.

Then you're either ignorant, making a straw man argument, or you're just so blinded by your own lack of understanding that you refuse to see a given set of facts just because you don't know how to explain them to fit your own idea of things.

[Ausinus]

They are hardly facts, I dont remember god or the validity of many parts of the bible ever being proven.

[General Septem]

They are hardly facts, I dont remember god or the validity of many parts of the bible ever being proven.

I'm talking about the things that are proven facts. For instance, why didn't you answer my question a couple of posts ago? Because it was illogical, or because you just couldn't?

[Ausinus]

Oh you mean the book one? Sorry ive been focusing on another one.:D

I would say that the Bible is wrong in many areas and right in a few because it is highle derivative from other mythologies and was probably written by a large number of people.

[General Septem]

Oh you mean the book one? Sorry ive been focusing on another one.:D

I would say that the Bible is wrong in many areas and right in a few because it is highle derivative from other mythologies and was probably written by a large number of people.
Speculation.

[Ausinus]

Far less speculative then the existence of god.

[theicidal maniac]

Hypothetically speaking, how can half the book be right and half of it be wrong? How can God exist but not be all-powerful?

So uh...Victor Hugo...he wrote a book. A famous one. It was called Le miserable. Many of the things in this book really happened. It is centered around REAL historical events. IT'S NOT A TRUE STORY. Also Pride and Prejudice, and that piece of Crap Ben Affleck flop of a movie "pearl harbor." It is quite simple to write a story that has SOME true parts. But when I am supposed to be expected to believe that a guy lived in a whale...well, current biological info doesn't really support that. Nor does any evolutionary biology really allow for the possibility of an abrupt, garden of eden style creation. That theory is basically not pheasable.

[theicidal maniac]

Speculation.

Ausi's pointst were hardly speculation. The bible IS interspersed with many real life events, as is, say, Homer's "Odyssey." That hardly makes it true.

furthermore, the bible WAS written by many different people. For instance, the first 5 books of the old testament are known as the books of Moses, and were authored by a person known only to scholars as "J." However J's creation story was removed by the REDACTOR (the person who compiled the stories into what jews call the Tanakh. He replaced it with the Adam and Eve story which was written by the author "P" (Preistly author) because J's god was more like roman gods, walking and talking with humans. There are at least 3 other contributors to the old testament that Christians know, and possibly more, if you look at the Jewish version. The writing styles are apparently quite distinct when read in their original Hebrew, but then again I am really just taking the word of Hebrew-speaking bible scholars on that last part, because I can't read that much Hebrew myself.

Also, Judaism and Christianity both borrow liberally from other faiths, especially the Greek traditions and also the Persian Zoroastrianism, and catholicism specifically draws a lot of it's heavenly order from pagan traditions.