View Full Version : Why are men so obsesed with abortion
twisted_screams
12-20-2006, 12:50 PM
I would like to know why it always seems like its more men then women that are obsesed with the abortion debate?
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 02:21 PM
I just want freedom of choice for women. They've been opressed for millenia and now its time we gave them the rights they deserve.
freakazoid
12-20-2006, 04:35 PM
I just want freedom of choice for women. They've been opressed for millenia and now its time we gave them the rights they deserve.
But do their rights include killing otherwise viable innocent yet to be born human life? Just curious.
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 05:11 PM
The reason I want women to be able to choose if they want an abortion is so they have control over their own bodies. Us men cant get pregnant, so we arent hindered by that . If women cant have abortions, they are stripped of their oppoprtunities in life should they become pregnant by accident.
The reason I want women to be able to choose if they want an abortion is so they have control over their own bodies. Us men cant get pregnant, so we arent hindered by that . If women cant have abortions, they are stripped of their oppoprtunities in life should they become pregnant by accident.
No one stripped them of anything. They stripped themselves when they made the choice to have sex to begin with if they weren't ready for a kid yet.
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 05:43 PM
Forcing someone into pregnancy is a tantamount to a punishment for sex.
Accidents do happen even with contraceptives you know. So abortion acts as a failsafe. We need to educate people about contraceptives more, so we wont have as many abortions.
This has nothing to do with punishment. It's about being responsible for your actions. If the woman was truly responsible, she'd own up to the fact that she screwed up, and would deal with the consequences. Not to mention she'd learn something from the whole experience. What can she learn from having an abortion? That she can have sex with whoever she wants and not worry about getting pregnant? Yeah that's a really great lesson.
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 05:48 PM
If said accident wasnt her fault, would you force her into pregnancy?
And that is a good lesson, people should be able to have sex without such worries.
If said accident wasnt her fault, would you force her into pregnancy?
I assume you mean in a case of rape. In that case while it's unfortunate what happened, I still say she should have it. Simply because that human life in the womb is special, unique and deserves just as much a chance at life as anyone else.
And that is a good lesson.
Bullshit it is. She doesn't learn a damn thing except that she can have sex with any guys she wants, and if she gets pregnant she can just get rid of it. That's no lesson at all.
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 05:53 PM
No I mean in the case of contraceptive failure.
So? She should be able to have sex with any guy she wants, its her choice.
No I mean in the case of contraceptive failure.
In that case yes, because she still made the choice to have sex to begin with.
So? She should be able to have sex with any guy she wants, its her choice.
Yes but my point is by having the kid she learns what can happen by having sex recklessly, and probably thinks twice before making that same mistake again.
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 05:57 PM
In that case yes, because she still made the choice to have sex to begin with.
Then thats a punishment for sex. Which is illegal.
Yes but my point is by having the kid she learns what can happen by having sex recklessly, and probably thinks twice before making that same mistake again.
If she uses contraceptives, then its responsible sex. Contraceptive failure is outside of her control.
This is why I love the 60's. They threw off the shackles of traditional society and embraced the future.
Then thats a punishment for sex. Which is illegal.
Again it's not a punishment, it's simply being responsible for yourself. You don't want a kid, then control yourself. It's not impossible
If she uses contraceptives, then its responsible sex. Contraceptive failure is outside of her control.
No it is in her control if she'd know well enough what could happen if she chose to have sex, contraceptives or not.
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 06:05 PM
Yes but my point is by having the kid she learns what can happen by having sex recklessly, and probably thinks twice before making that same mistake again.
That is the defintion of a punishment.
People should be able to have sex without the worry of pregnancy, and can, combining both contraceptives as the primary method and abortion as the failsafe.
If we dont give women the right to have sex without worrying about pregancy, thats one less right than men.
That is the defintion of a punishment.
People should be able to have sex without the worry of pregnancy, and can, combining both contraceptives as the primary method and abortion as the failsafe.
If we dont give women the right to have sex without worrying about pregancy, thats one less right than men.
If you ask me it's selfish if you want sex without the potential for a child. It's not possible. You can't have one without the other, so deal with it.
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 06:14 PM
If you ask me it's selfish if you want sex without the potential for a child. It's not possible. You can't have one without the other, so deal with it.
Two words. Vasectomy and Historectomy. But they are permanent, so we have temporary alternatives.
And I dont think its selfish.
Two words. Vasectomy and Historectomy. But they are permanent, so we have temporary alternatives.
And I dont think its selfish.
Well you're wrong it is. Sex is not nor will it ever be all about the pleasure. It's part of it, but not the only part of it.
Bottom line is simply this: There is no excuse for killing another human life especially that of the unborn baby. If you disagree with that, then you're just as bad as the Nazis.
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 06:20 PM
Well you're wrong it is. Sex is not nor will it ever be all about the pleasure. It's part of it, but not the only part of it.
Bottom line is simply this: There is no excuse for killing another human life especially that of the unborn baby. If you disagree with that, then you're just as bad as the Nazis.
In your view maybe. Not in mine, or many others.
Omg, Im as bad as the Nazis for just wanting people to have sexual freedom, and for not wanting to focre women to ruin their lives when it isnt their fault.
In your view maybe. Not in mine, or many others.
Well you're still wrong. This is not an opinion matter. It's right against wrong as I've stated before.
Omg, Im as bad as the Nazis for just wanting people to have sexual freedom, and for not wanting to focre women to ruin their lives when it isnt their fault.
But it is. They had the choice to have sex no? Therefore they should be responsible for anything that comes out of that action.
And yes you are as bad as the Nazis, because like them you are allowing innocent lives to die.
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 06:26 PM
How dare you insult me like that. Especially when I consider life to start at birth and it is only potential life in the womb because it isnt viable outside the mother.
How dare you insult me like that. Especially when I consider life to start at birth and it is only potential life in the womb because it isnt viable outside the mother.
If the shoe fits...
BTW you're wrong about when life begins too. Life starts right at conception, not at birth.
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 06:32 PM
I revise what I said. The foetus isnt viable outside the mother prior to 24 weeks so then its independent life begins when it is viable outside the mother.
Anyway your more of a nazi for trying to force women to carry children.
Anyway your more of a nazi for trying to force women to carry children.
No I'm not allowing innocent lives to die, rather I'm trying to protect said lives.
I revise what I said. The foetus isnt viable outside the mother prior to 24 weeks so then its independent life begins when it is viable outside the mother.
Still no excuse to kill it.
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 06:39 PM
Its only potential life. Why ruin an existing one for a potential one?
Its only potential life. Why ruin an existing one for a potential one?
It's not potential life, it IS a life. Period. It's growing in the womb, ergo it is LIVING, not potentially living, but living.
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 06:46 PM
It isnt viable outside the mother. Period. Its only potential.
It isnt viable outside the mother. Period. Its only potential.
That doesn't matter though. It's still breathing, it can feel, it can kick, it can recognize voices, etc etc. Therefore it is living.
twisted_screams
12-20-2006, 07:11 PM
This has nothing to do with punishment. It's about being responsible for your actions. If the woman was truly responsible, she'd own up to the fact that she screwed up, and would deal with the consequences. Not to mention she'd learn something from the whole experience. What can she learn from having an abortion? That she can have sex with whoever she wants and not worry about getting pregnant? Yeah that's a really great lesson.
WHat about the guy?
Well I would hope the guy would learn the same through the child being brought into the world. Since he would then become responsible for the child in some form or another. If the woman has an abortion, all he learns is that he can get a girl pregnant and then not have to be responsible for the child. Therefore, he would be free to leave the woman and get another girl pregnant and so on and forth. That's just as bad as what the woman would "learn".
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 07:15 PM
IMO, men shouldnt have a say in abortion. But Mr Sex Fascist here thinks otherwise.
IMO, men shouldnt have a say in abortion. But Mr Sex Fascist here thinks otherwise.
If nothing else the man should have a say if it's their child too. I say that because whatever happens, is something the man would have to deal with the rest of his life.
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 07:18 PM
Why shouldn't they? If nothing else the man should have a say if their child too.
Its the womans body. Not his. Men cant understand what pregnancy can do to someones life. Sure they can talk about it, but its ultimately up to the woman.
Its the womans body. Not his. Men cant understand what pregnancy can do to someones life.
But what if they are the father? Shouldn't that impact the decision just a little? In that regard it impacts their life too, not just that of the mother.
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 07:22 PM
But what if they are the father? Shouldn't that impact the decision just a little? In that regard it impacts their life too, not just that of the mother.
If the father is willing to support the mother, he can discuss it with her. Otherwise he needs to sit down and shut up.
Still, it is solely the mothers choice. Its her uterus, and its her life that is impacted the most.
Still, it is solely the mothers choice. Its her uterus, and its her life that is impacted the most.
Yes but if she kills it that stays with the man too. It's not all about the woman here you know.
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 07:28 PM
Yes but if she kills it that stays with the man too. It's not all about the woman here you know.
It is completely about the woman. The only time it involves the father is when the mother chooses to involve him.
No it isn't. It's not just her child, it's THEIR child. Any decision should be made together, not alone since said decision will impact them both in the years to come.
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 07:32 PM
No it isn't. It's not just her child, it's THEIR child. Any decision should be made together, not alone since said decision will impact them both in the years to come.
Yeah, because if the mother is too poor to afford a baby they will be in a financial crisis.
And again, the father is only involved when the mother chooses so. She doesnt have to tell him.
Yeah, because if the mother is too poor to afford a baby they will be in a financial crisis.
It's not even just that, but if that baby is killed, the man has to live with that just as much as the mom does. Not to mention it effects him too mentally.
And again, the father is only involved when the mother chooses so. She doesnt have to tell him.
If she has any respect for the guy she would tell him. He deserves to know because again it's his child too. The woman can't have the child on her own.
ohreally
12-20-2006, 07:38 PM
Bullshit it is. She doesn't learn a damn thing except that she can have sex with any guys she wants, and if she gets pregnant she can just get rid of it. That's no lesson at all.
Boy, aren't you the sexist. You talk about all this punishment and stuff - then what punishment shall be applied to guy that had sex with her? So only she should be punished for having sex? Should he be forced to be a Dad too then? I mean if you force her to have the baby....This just shows you that you have no respect for Women.
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 07:38 PM
Its her uterus, and no man will deny her the right to control over it. QED.
Its her uterus, and no man will deny her the right to control over it. QED.
So in effect you're doing the same thing you accuse me of being. Being a nazi in terms of the guy involved, forcing him to accept death if that's what the mother chooses.
Boy, aren't you the sexist. You talk about all this punishment and stuff - then what punishment shall be applied to guy that had sex with her?
The responsibility of being a father that's what.
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 07:42 PM
She doesnt have to involve him. It doesnt affect him at all unless she chooses to tell him.
And I will be a fascist in this regard, that men cannot deny women the right to abortions.
ohreally
12-20-2006, 07:42 PM
The responsibility of being a father that's what.
Well then my friend, how come you only talk about the punishment of the Woman who had sex? You have never mentioned once (besides now), about a punishment towards a man who had sex with her. Again - it justs further shows your bias - and sexist nazi self.
She doesnt have to involve him. It doesnt affect him at all unless she chooses to tell him.
She doesn't have to, but she should if she has any decency about her. It's simply the right thing to do.
who897
12-20-2006, 07:43 PM
Sodomy. Some good ole american ass pounding and oral sex. What if that's all the 2 people want. Is that not just about pleasure, it's sex. So, sex can be just about pleasure there bub.
Ohh to answer that question about why men are so obsessed w/ abortion. I think it's a viable option to prevent someone from having a child. I have friends and family that are chicks and I will be obsessed w/ their right to make a choice as to abort a pregnancy or not. Plus you got silly folk running around preaching about how things are wrong according to their beliefs, which kinda agrivates me.
Well then my friend, how come you only talk about the punishment of the Woman who had sex? You have never mentioned once (besides now), about a punishment towards a man who had sex with her. Again - it justs further shows your bias - and sexist nazi self.
Because it was never mentioned until you brought it up. The man has just as much a responsibility though nevertheless.
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 07:45 PM
She doesn't have to, but she should if she has any decency about her. It's simply the right thing to do.
Why? Im sure many decent women dont tell their lovers. Freedom of speech, she isnt obliged to tell him in any way.
ohreally
12-20-2006, 07:45 PM
Because it was never mentioned until you brought it up. The man has just as much a responsibility though nevertheless.
No, tell the truth ajk. It was never brought up because your a man and you don't feel it was necessary to punish the guy. You just hate Women - plain and simple. You never mentioned ONCE - don't try to squeak out of this. You never thought of punishing the guy because you think of Women on a lower level than Men.
It's becoming clear what ajk is now - a plain crazed catholic sexist.
Why? Im sure many decent women dont tell their lovers. Freedom of speech, she isnt obliged to tell him in any way.
Well they're not really that decent then.
No, tell the truth ajk. It was never brought up because your a man and you don't feel it was necessary to punish the guy. You just hate Women - plain and simple. You never mentioned ONCE - don't try to squeak out of this. You never thought of punishing the guy because you think of Women on a lower level than Men.
That is the truth and you damn well know it. In fact if you go back a page or two someone else did ask about how the man factors in, so I had in fact talked about it before.
ohreally
12-20-2006, 07:47 PM
That is the truth and you damn well know it. In fact if you go back a page or two someone else did ask about how the man factors in, so I had in fact talked about it before.
The truth is your a sexist, and you can't admit it. You need some help.
The truth is your a sexist, and you can't admit it. You need some help.
I am not sexist not in the least. I'm all for equal rights for women, FOR THEM. Not for their control over another being.
It's becoming clear what ajk is now - a plain crazed catholic sexist.
Do you have anything intelligent to add to this discussion?
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 07:49 PM
I am not sexist not in the least. I'm all for equal rights for women, FOR THEM. Not for their control over another being.
Abortion is a right FOR THEM. For control over their bodies'.
A foetus is hardly a being, its basically a beast.
ohreally
12-20-2006, 07:50 PM
I am not sexist not in the least. I'm all for equal rights for women, FOR THEM. Not for their control over another being.
You never once mention anything about Men prior to me adding it to the topic - why? Because you clearly are a sexist. So admit it, get over it, go to your box and suck the priests...
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 07:51 PM
Dont be so mean. Please try and be nice, no matter how much he pisses you off.
who897
12-20-2006, 07:51 PM
I am not sexist not in the least. I'm all for equal rights for women, FOR THEM. Not for their control over another being.
But you're trying to control women though.
Love the quote Oh, it add's a sense of dignity.
Abortion is a right FOR THEM. For control over their bodies'.
No it allows them to control another body, not their own body.
A foetus is hardly a being, its basically a beast.
Bullcrap. It's a life whether you like it or not.
ohreally
12-20-2006, 07:51 PM
Do you have anything intelligent to add to this discussion?
Yeah so I guess you being a sexist is intelligent... apparently.
But you're trying to control women though.
No I'm trying to protect innocent life. If I wanted to control women I would tell them what to wear and when to wear it. This has nothing to do with control.
who897
12-20-2006, 07:53 PM
Abortion is a right FOR THEM. For control over their bodies'.
A foetus is hardly a being, its basically a beast.
I liken fetus (only cuz I don't like the word foetus) to any other form of STD. I know i have a nice paragraph about this in one of my first posts somewhere. All well.
who897
12-20-2006, 07:53 PM
No I'm trying to protect innocent life. If I wanted to control women I would tell them what to wear and when to wear it. This has nothing to do with control.
But you aren't protecting innocent women.
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 07:53 PM
No it allows them to control another body, not their own body.
Actually it does because they control whats in their uterus.
Bullcrap. It's a life whether you like it or not.
C'est Merde! Do you know the distinction between life and being?
ohreally
12-20-2006, 07:54 PM
No I'm trying to protect innocent life. If I wanted to control women I would tell them what to wear and when to wear it. This has nothing to do with control.
You think you can just control everybody ya nazi.
Actually it does because they control whats in their uterus.
But it's not them! It's another life.
C'est Merde! Do you know the distinction between life and being?
I'll ask you the same question.
who897
12-20-2006, 07:55 PM
But it's not them! It's another life.
I'll ask you the same question.
Is that because you don't know the answer to the question asked?
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 07:56 PM
But it's not them! It's another life.
It is them. Its her body, and her life.
I'll ask you the same question.
Hai. I certainly do. Beings are sapient organsisms. Life is all life. Foeti are not sapient organisms.
It is them. Its her body, and her life.
But again there's another life inside her, therefore that life trumps her own.
Hai. I certainly do. Beings are sapient organsisms. Life is all life. Foeti are not sapient organisms.
Foeti is still life. It may be dependent on the mom, but it's still living. Besides that they are still more or less dependent on the mom after they are born anyway.
who897
12-20-2006, 08:04 PM
But again there's another life inside her, therefore that life trumps her own.
Foeti is still life. It may be dependent on the mom, but it's still living. Besides that they are still more or less dependent on the mom after they are born anyway.
No they aren't, any swinging dick could take care of a baby. It needs to become a baby first though, through birth. If it's living when it's inside the mother then it's more like a fucking tape worm then a fucking human......BTW the fucking thing, I just felt like using, not really for emphasis, just like the fucking word.
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 08:04 PM
But again there's another life inside her, therefore that life trumps her own.
No. The life of the mother takes precendence over the life of the foetus. Anyway the current abortion law doesnt consider any of this. It says whatever goes on inside the uterus is her own business.
And your statement contradicts your argument of we are all equal.
[QUOTE}Foeti is still life. It maybe dependent on the mom, but it's still living. Besides that they are still more or less dependent on the mom after they are born anyway.[/QUOTE]
Not in the most basic way. Post natally they can survive with other people, in utero they are completely dependent on the mother.
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 08:08 PM
But again there's another life inside her, therefore that life trumps her own.
Does it trump the father's too? Lets be equal.
Does it trump the father's too? Lets be equal.
I suppose you could say that, after all the mother and father are equally responsible for the created life.
who897
12-20-2006, 08:12 PM
Does it trump the father's too? Lets be equal.
What if the pregnancy endangered the man's life, would it still be ok to abort? :D
No. The life of the mother takes precendence over the life of the foetus. Anyway the current abortion law doesnt consider any of this. It says whatever goes on inside the uterus is her own business.
Well the current laws are wrong then. And you're wrong too. That whole statement outside of the current abortion law not considering any of this, is all wrong.
And your statement contradicts your argument of we are all equal.
You could say the same for abortion itself. Babies should be treated with the same respect as of the rest of us. But because of abortion they are not.
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 08:16 PM
I suppose you could say that, after all the mother and father are equally responsible for the created life.
Ok then, if the mother dies during birth then we have to kill the father too.:D
who897
12-20-2006, 08:17 PM
Well the current laws are wrong then. And you're wrong too. That whole statement outside of the current abortion law not considering any of this, is all wrong.
Well your wrong. Your views are wrong. Your opionion is wrong. Your life style is wrong. Everything you say is wrong. Your just plain wrong.
I can do that too, revert back to Kindergarden.
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 08:17 PM
You could say the same for abortion itself. Babies should be treated with the same respect as of the rest of us. But because of abortion they are not.
They arent babies they're foeti. And the mother isnt being treated with the same respect because you are taking away her freedom.
who897
12-20-2006, 08:17 PM
Ok then, if the mother dies during birth then we have to kill the father too.:D
And the fetus or baby if it made it through the birth canal.
Well your wrong. Your views are wrong. Your opionion is wrong. Your life style is wrong. Everything you say is wrong. Your just plain wrong.
I can do that too, revert back to Kindergarden.
I'm not reverting back to anything. I simply know I am right on this, regardless of what anyone says.
They arent babies they're foeti. And the mother isnt being treated with the same respect because you are taking away her freedom.
In most cases she robbed herself of her freedom when she had sex. Once she makes that choice she should responsible for the outcome.
who897
12-20-2006, 08:26 PM
In most cases she robbed herself of her freedom when she had sex. Once she makes that choice she should responsible for the outcome.
So, sex isn't a natural thing?
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 08:27 PM
In most cases she robbed herself of her freedom when she had sex. Once she makes that choice she should responsible for the outcome.
SHE DID NOT ROB HERSELF OF FREEDOM WHEN SHE HAD SEX YOU SEX HATING ASSHOLE. YOU WOULDNT EVEN KNOW WHAT HAVING SEX IS LIKE AND WHY SO MANY PEOPLE DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!>_<
SHE DID NOT ROB HERSELF OF FREEDOM WHEN SHE HAD SEX YOU SEX HATING ASSHOLE. YOU WOULDNT EVEN KNOW WHAT HAVING SEX IS LIKE AND WHY SO MANY PEOPLE DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!>_<
Yes she did, she made the choice so now she should have to own up to it.
So, sex isn't a natural thing?
It is but we don't have to act on our instincts. Mind over body.
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 08:34 PM
Yes she did, she made the choice so now she should have to own up to it.
If it was outside her control (contraceptive failure, which mind you is only 1% failure rate) then its not her choice now is it.
Stop demanding the woman have a punishment and start converting to atheism.
who897
12-20-2006, 08:38 PM
It is but we don't have to act on our instincts. Mind over body.
Try and stop breathing.
Try and stop breathing.
You don't have to have sex to live! You can live just as a good a life without as you could with it. So that argument doesn't hold water.
If it was outside her control (contraceptive failure, which mind you is only 1% failure rate) then its not her choice now is it.
Yes it is still, by having sex she still put herself in the position where a baby could be conceived, contraceptive or no contraceptive. She should know the risks going in. If she doesn't that's too bad then, she'll have to learn the hard way.
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 08:42 PM
Yes it is still, by having sex she still put herself in the position where a baby could be conceived, contraceptive or no contraceptive. She should know the risks going in. If she doesn't that's too bad then, she'll have to learn the hard way.
You should be able to enjoy sex without worrying about babies.
Learn the hard way? And how will the father learn? He can just skip out, the woman cant except by abortion.
You should be able to enjoy sex without worrying about babies.
You'er right, you should open to life anyway and be prepared to have one should it happen.
[/QUOTE]Learn the hard way? And how will the father learn? He can just skip out, the woman cant except by abortion.[/QUOTE]
Two words: Child support.
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 08:47 PM
You'er right, you should open to life anyway and be prepared to have one should it happen.
So you have to always have up to a million dollars and a lot of time on your hands?
[/QUOTE]Two words: Child support.[/QUOTE]
But it doesnt teach the father anything. He can just leave and get away scot free, cos unless they're married he doesnt have any obligation to it.
So you have to always have up to a million dollars and a lot of time on your hands?
There's always adoption
[/QUOTE]Two words: Child support.[/QUOTE]
But it doesnt teach the father anything. He can just leave and get away scot free, cos unless they're married he doesnt have any obligation to it.[/QUOTE]
Well I would hope he would learn something from it, knowing what can happen if he doesn't watch what he's doing. And if he doesn't, well that's on him and his conscience then.
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 08:53 PM
There's always adoption.
But before that you have to go through morning sickness, cramps, LABOUR and hospital and medicine fees. How nice.
QUOTE]Well I would hope he would learn something from it, knowing what can happen if he doesn't watch what he's doing. And if he doesn't, well that's on him and his conscience then.[/QUOTE]
As opposed to the woman who has to go through labour. SEXIST BASTARD.
Incidentally most of the time the guy does have some sort of obligation to pay money. More info here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_support
But before that you have to go through morning sickness, cramps, LABOUR and hospital and medicine fees. How nice.
It's for the greater good, as you are bringing new life into the world.
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 08:55 PM
It's for the greater good, as you are bringing new life into the world.
Greater good blah blah blah. What greater good? Its just your conservative crap. Women shouldnt have to go through that if they dont want to.
Greater good blah blah blah. What greater good? Its just your conservative crap. Women shouldnt have to go through that if they dont want to.
The greater good of bringing a new life into the world.
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 08:59 PM
The only greater good is evolution and we dont even need sex to do that anymore.
The only greater good is evolution and we dont even need sex to do that anymore.
Are you blind? I just said what the greater good is. How much of a greater good can there be then bringing forth a new life so that it may follow it's own dreams and pursue it's own goals. What can be greater then that?
Did you look at the child support link BTW?
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 09:01 PM
Living a good life.
Living a good life.
Yeah but still it's an honor to be able to bring new life into the world and should be treated as such. Not everyone is so lucky to get that chance, and yet the ones that do just throw it away.
Ausinus
12-20-2006, 09:08 PM
They have a choice, and they are entitled to it, thats why.
Anyway we've got all sorts of stuff to cover it like artificial insemination and things like that.
who897
12-20-2006, 09:22 PM
Are you blind? I just said what the greater good is. How much of a greater good can there be then bringing forth a new life so that it may follow it's own dreams and pursue it's own goals. What can be greater then that?
Did you look at the child support link BTW?
Then everyone men and women should have their tubes tied, so they can't get pregnant. All we need to do is clone folks. That'll bring new life into this world.
yea_thats_right1
12-20-2006, 09:33 PM
This has nothing to do with punishment. It's about being responsible for your actions. If the woman was truly responsible, she'd own up to the fact that she screwed up, and would deal with the consequences. Not to mention she'd learn something from the whole experience. What can she learn from having an abortion? That she can have sex with whoever she wants and not worry about getting pregnant? Yeah that's a really great lesson.
Excuse me... but why is it that its always the womens fault for "opening her legs"????????? Um it takes two the last time i heard... maybe im wrong.. no wait.. youre worng... pregnancy should never be a way of teaching someone a lesson... Men cant have babies... which is why men are such sluts... and im not saying youre a slut i we all already know youve never been laid..
Don't even get me started on why cloning is wrong. Cloning demeans the specialness and unique of each and every life born.
Excuse me... but why is it that its always the womens fault for "opening her legs"????????? Um it takes two the last time i heard... maybe im wrong.. no wait.. youre worng... pregnancy should never be a way of teaching someone a lesson... Men cant have babies... which is why men are such sluts... and im not saying youre a slut i we all already know youve never been laid..
Well the guy is at fault too, he's just as responsible for what happened as the woman is.
yea_thats_right1
12-20-2006, 09:35 PM
In that case yes, because she still made the choice to have sex to begin with.
Yes but my point is by having the kid she learns what can happen by having sex recklessly, and probably thinks twice before making that same mistake again.
wtf happens to men when they have sex recklessly??? get over yourself dude
yea_thats_right1
12-20-2006, 09:39 PM
It's not even just that, but if that baby is killed, the man has to live with that just as much as the mom does. Not to mention it effects him too mentally.
If she has any respect for the guy she would tell him. He deserves to know because again it's his child too. The woman can't have the child on her own.
what if the man doesnt want her to have the child then?... based off of what youve been saying about the father being very much apart of the decision... what then?
yea_thats_right1
12-20-2006, 09:40 PM
Then everyone men and women should have their tubes tied, so they can't get pregnant. All we need to do is clone folks. That'll bring new life into this world.
or we can ban sex since every virgin on this site seems to think sex is bad lol
wtf happens to men when they have sex recklessly??? get over yourself dude
Same thing, I'm not saying men are any better when it comes to this. As I said, man and woman are both equally responsible for what takes place leading up to the conception of the baby.
what if the man doesnt want her to have the child then?... based off of what youve been saying about the father being very much apart of the decision... what then?
Well in that case if the woman wanted the baby, I would say her decision trumps the man's in that situation. I say that because ultimately having the child would be for the greater good not only for society but for them as a couple. Or if not them, some couple that really wants kids but for one reason or another cannot have one naturally.
Now if the opposite is true for this, then I would say that the man's decision would trump that of the woman for the same reason mentioned above. Though of course the man can only try and advise her to change her mind, as in the end if the woman wanted the abortion she could have one without him (not that I advocate the woman doing that of course). But in any event, whether the woman has the child or not, IMO the man's decision would trump that of the woman.
If they both decide they want the child, then that's great. If they both decide they want to abort it, all I can say is may God have mercy on them. In the end when all is said and done they would have to answer for their actions here.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 02:39 AM
Same thing, I'm not saying men are any better when it comes to this. As I said, man and woman are both equally responsible for what takes place leading up to the conception of the baby.
Yeah but the guy doesnt have to endure cramps and labour.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 02:41 AM
But in any event, whether the woman has the child or not, IMO the man's decision would trump that of the woman.
Your just lucky Germaine doesnt hear this. SHE WOULD KICK YOUR ASS>_<
ANATA WA ATAMA GA WARUI TO BAKA DATTEBAYO!
Your just lucky Germaine doesnt hear this. SHE WOULD KICK YOUR ASS>_<
She could do whatever she wanted I don't care. It wouldn't change my position one iota. I stand by what I said for the reasons I mentioned.
Yeah but the guy doesnt have to endure cramps and labour.
True but he would still feel the effects of the baby born through child support and whatnot.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 02:45 AM
True but he would still feel the effects of the baby born through child support and whatnot.
Wah wah I have to pay some money. Big deal. And he can just skip out on it too.
ANATA WA ATAMA GA WARUI TO BAKA DATTEBAYO!
What is that supposed to mean?
Wah wah I have to pay some money. Big deal. And he can just skip out on it too.
Not without punishment he couldn't. Not only that, but child support costs more then you think it does. My dad had to pay $2,000 or more for me. And what if he doesn't have a steady job or isn't making that much money?
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 02:46 AM
Its Japanese. It means something to the effect of
You are an idiot and a jerk! Believe it!
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 02:46 AM
Not without punishment he couldn't.
They get away with it now! We already have laws in place! It doesnt change anything.
They get away with it now! We already have laws in place! It doesnt change anything.
What kind of laws?
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 02:49 AM
You know 'you have to pay child support' blah blah. It doesnt change anything, men still skip out on women when the women are pregnant.
You know 'you have to pay child support' blah blah. It doesnt change anything, men still skip out on women when the women are pregnant.
Doesn't mean it's legal though unless you can provide proof of that. They still have some sort of obligation to it whether they own up to it or not.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 02:53 AM
Not without punishment he couldn't. Not only that, but child support costs more then you think it does. My dad had to pay $2,000 or more for me. And what if he doesn't have a steady job or isn't making that much money?
Still, it is pittance to what the mother has to pay. Healthy children can cost more than a million dollars to raise these days.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 02:55 AM
Doesn't mean it's legal though unless you can provide proof of that. They still have some sort of obligation to it whether they own up to it or not.
But they rarely fulfil that obligation, because they have the choice to. You say women have an obligation to raise the child from conception, now they dont have a choice save for abortion. You are stripping them of equal rights.
But they rarely fulfil that obligation, because they have the choice to. You say women have an obligation to raise the child from conception, now they dont have a choice save for abortion. You are stripping them of equal rights.
But by allowing abortions, you strip the child of the same thing. Besides as I've said time and again they had the choice to have or not have sex before this. They chose to have sex and this is what can happen. If you're not ready for it you should wait until you are ready for it.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 02:59 AM
Well then, lets ban sex outside of marriage. See how that goes down with the people.
Omg, better yet, lets make all the men get vasectomys after they donate sperm. That will solve everything.
FREE LOVE!
I dont think you are really in a position to comment about sex. So lay off us people who actually like it.
Well then, lets ban sex outside of marriage. See how that goes down with the people.
Omg, better yet, lets make all the men get vasectomys after they donate sperm. That will solve everything.
FREE LOVE!
I dont think you are really in a position to comment about sex. So lay off us people who actually like it.
I'm just trying to promote what is right. Obviously some people here don't get that or understand it, but it won't stop me from trying my best to get that message across.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 03:02 AM
I despise your message. Its like the 60's never even happened.
You dont even need sex to have children anymore.
I despise your message. Its like the 60's never even happened.
You dont even need sex to have children anymore.
To be honest I'd rather they didn't. Because of the 60's the world is in the mess it's in now.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 03:07 AM
To be honest I'd rather they didn't. Because of the 60's the world is in the mess it's in now.
Oh fuck you the 60's was one of the greatest decades ever! Equal rights for people of colour, the moon landing, Woodstock (the original one), and anti war movements! It empitomizes freedom of expression! Where people rose up against the oppresive and outdated morals of the past and embraced freedom and sexuality!
Oh fuck you the 60's was one of the greatest decades ever! Equal rights for people of colour, the moon landing, Woodstock (the original one), and anti war movements! It empitomizes freedom of expression!
Certain things (equal rights for other races, the moon landing) were good, but others I'd rather forget (the whole free love thing).
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 03:10 AM
The sexual revolution was one of the turning points in history. It showed people that sex isnt bad, it can be enjoyed! It shows how far weve come as a society, that we can enjoy our own bodies and life without obsolete morals hindering us.
The sexual revolution was one of the turning points in history. It showed people that sex isnt bad, it can be enjoyed! It shows how far weve come as a society, that we can enjoy our own bodies and life without obsolete morals hindering us.
I think the opposite is true. It's shows how much we've regressed.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 03:13 AM
Hardly. Our society has advanced and grown as we now have the liberty to enjoy ourselves.
And as for the 60's not to mention Feminism and Gay Rights! Woooo!
Hardly. Our society has advanced and grown as we now have the liberty to enjoy ourselves.
And as for the 60's not to mention Feminism and Gay Rights! Woooo!
Which is exactly why we've regressed.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 03:17 AM
Which is exactly why we've regressed.
So enjoying ourselves is wrong then?
And gay rights and feminism too?
So enjoying ourselves is wrong then?
And gay rights and feminism too?
There's nothing wrong with having fun within reason. But they the way we choose to have "fun" is in no way acceptable. Least not to God it isn't.
Same goes for Gay Rights in regards to marriage anyhow. As for feminism, well I'm all for women being free to hold jobs and things like that, but when it comes to being allowed to murder babies, that's where I draw the line. Women are being deceived through abortion too. Not knowing the after effects (risk of breast cancer, depression, etc), or how dangerous and unsafe the procedure really is.
England Expects
12-21-2006, 03:26 AM
The sexual liberation brought about in the '60 is one of the great developments of our society and a huge step away from restrictive and as Aus say's "Obsolete" religious dogma.
Of course, abstinance(sp), especially before marriage would be a great way to stop STD's and unwanted pregnancy... if it was realistic, but its not!
Sexual freedom comes with responsibility. Its no good just going around humping everything you can without the thought of consequences, but why demonise those who are responsible and sensible?
The only reason I can see for making abortion illegal, is to subvert and oppress women who religious men see as morally corrupt.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 03:27 AM
I dont give a bloody fuck about your god. Life is to be enjoyed.
Then educate them about contraceptives more. You can take the pill and use a condom, in which case the chances of contraceptive failure are virtually nonexistant.
Abortion is not as unsafe as you think. In fact, if done by a trained professional, it can in many cases be safer than pregnancy.
I dont give a bloody fuck about your god. Life is to be enjoyed.
You will one day. God didn't mean for us not to enjoy life, but the guidelines set in place were intended so they we'd better enjoy it.
As for the after effects, Breast cancer due to abortion has not been declared a risk by any major breast cancer organisation. Also, for depression, far more mental damage is caused by undesired first pregnancies than by abortion.
Just because a major organization hasn't announced it doesn't make it any less factual.
For depression, I disagree. It may effect you at first, but as time goes on I'm sure the woman is glad she made that decision to keep the child. Having it is much better then not.
Of course, abstinance(sp), especially before marriage would be a great way to stop STD's and unwanted pregnancy... if it was realistic, but its not!
Ir's only as unrealistic as you think it is. Again mind over body.
[/QUOTE]Sexual freedom comes with responsibility. Its no good just going around humping everything you can without the thought of consequences, but why demonise those who are responsible and sensible?
[/QUOTE]
But they're not. If they truly were they'd have the kid. That's how you deal with the consequences. Abortion is not in the least dealing with it, it's running away from the new found responsibilities.
England Expects
12-21-2006, 03:43 AM
We'll if God is going to condemn people to hell for sex before marriage, gay sex, masturbation and impure thoughts, then heaven is going to be deserted.
Fuck it, I'll take my place in hell please.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 03:43 AM
You will one day. God didn't mean for us not to enjoy life, but the guidelines set in place were intended so they we'd better enjoy it.
How is abstaining better enjoying it? And supressing women and people of other races? Humansim is the way to go.
Heaven would be boring, at least you'd get interesting people in Hell.
Just because a major organization hasn't announced it doesn't make it any less factual.
It is hardly fact. Studies have been done and they show no correllation between it and abortion.
For depression, I disagree. It may effect you at first, but as time goes on I'm sure the woman is glad she made that decision to keep the child. Having it is much better then not.
Are you a trained psychologist? I think not. Psychologists have studied it and the psychological effects of an unwanted pregnancy pale in comparison to an aborted one.
In fact, I think its mainly because of you people guilting them that they suffer from it.
England Expects
12-21-2006, 03:49 AM
"But they're not. If they truly were they'd have the kid. That's how you deal with the consequences. Abortion is not in the least dealing with it, it's running away from the new found responsibilities."
The trick is to deal witht the consequences of unwanted pregancy BEFORE conception.
I've been married for 18 months now, but before I met my wife, I had plenty of partners. I've never had an STD, I've never got anyone pregnant and never had a partner go for an abortion. But then again, I took notice in our sex education classes.
Abstinance has never worked and will never work. We have to teach our kids to be sensible and that if you paddle in dirty water, you have to wear your wellies.
It is hardly fact. Studies have been done and they show no correllation between it and abortion.
Bullcrap. I've seen plenty of studies on the matter and I know that it puts women at higher risk.
Are you a trained psychologist? I think not. Psychologists have studied it and the psychological effects of an unwanted pregnancy pale in comparison to an aborted one.
Well then they are wrong, that simple.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 03:54 AM
Bullcrap. I've seen plenty of studies on the matter and I know that it puts women at higher risk.
Many "pro life" studies more likely. Scientists in Denmark have shown through study it is a fallacious connection, and that the women who got breast cancer had lifestyles that increased the risk of it prior to the abortion.
Most of the breast cancer abortion link is crap used for scare tactics by pro lifers. I believe PETA used a similar argument for the connection between milk and zits.
[QUOTEWell then they are wrong, that simple.[/QUOTE]
Get a Masters in psychology, do a verifiable study and I'll actually believe you on that.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 03:55 AM
[QUOTE=England ExpectsWe have to teach our kids to be sensible and that if you paddle in dirty water, you have to wear your wellies.[/QUOTE]
Wellies. How cute!^_^ We call them Gumboots.
Many "pro life" studies more likely. Scientists in Denmark have shown through study it is a fallacious connection, and that the women who got breast cancer had lifestyles that increased it prior to the abortion.
Take a look at this: http://www.errantskeptics.org/AbortionBreastCancer.htm
[/QUOTE]Get a Masters in psychology, do a verifiable study and I'll actually believe you on that.[/QUOTE]
Well how about I use my mom as an example. She always seems depressed today. I rarely see her smile or laugh even. Before she had me she had an abortion. Coincidence? I don't think so.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 04:02 AM
Take a look at this: http://www.errantskeptics.org/AbortionBreastCancer.htm
http://www.breastcancer.org/research_2003_04.html
Take a look at that.
[/QUOTE]Well how about I use my mom as an example. She always seems depressed today. I rarely see her smile or laugh even. Before she had me she had an abortion. Coincidence? I don't think so.[/QUOTE]
So? My cousin had an abortion and shes fine. In fact she is still happy she got it. I think your making a fallacious connection.
I say the same, unless you are an approved psychologist, I wont believe you.
http://www.breastcancer.org/research_2003_04.html
Take a look at that.
Wow, I give you something that has plenty of proof for the link between abortion and breast cancer, (including references to numerous other studies on the subject at the bottom) and you give me that? There's no proof there whatsoever, nothing to back up your position. The whole thing is laughable IMO.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 04:17 AM
I gave you a link to the National Cancer Institute report on it. How is that laughable?
Mind you, if we ban abortion because of breast cancer, lets think of some other carcinogens to ban.
1) The sun
2) Cigarettes
3) Not having a child
4) foods high in animal fat
5) Oestrogen
6) Salted fish
7) Alcohol
8) Soot
9) Coffee
10) Gasoline
Among other things. Until the scientific community agrees on the idea tha abortion definitley leads to increased cancer risk, i'll still be pro choice.
Because there no references to any studies or anything there. My link had plenty of evidence while yours did not.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 04:22 AM
Because's there no references to any studies or anything there. My link had plenty of evidence while yours did not.
Fine, go to the wikipedia article on it. Plenty of evidence.
Fine, go to the wikipedia article on it. Plenty of evidence.
What would I type in to access it?
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 04:28 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion-breast_cancer_hypothesis
Alright let me hit you with some numbers of my own:
(all from article)
13 of 15 studies in the USA, revealed the risk and 28 of 37 studies worldwide.
A 1996 study carried out in the Netherlands found almost a twofold increased risk for breast cancer after an induced abortion.
According to a report in the American Journal of Pathology, August 1980, pp 497-511, cancer researchers injected a number of pregnant rats with DMBA, a cancer-causing substance. They then aborted half the rats; the other half were allowed to carry their pregnancies to term.
Among the aborted rats, 77% developed breast cancer. Among the term rats, only 5.5% developed breast cancer.
How do you explain those?
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 04:42 AM
They arent recent. The most recent ones in Sweden and Denmark and by the NCI give evidence to the contrary.
They arent recent. The most recent ones in Sweden and Denmark and by the NCI give evidence to the contrary.
So what if they aren't recent. Facts are facts and they don't just suddenly change over time. Besides, how do you know some of the 13 studies in US, or the 28 worldwide aren't recent?
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 04:52 AM
So what if they aren't recent. Facts are facts and they don't just suddenly change over time. Besides, how do you know some of the 13 studies in US, or the 28 worldwide aren't recent?
It matters because back then they did not have the technology and understanding of breast cancer that we do.
Facts changethrough discovery of new evidence, that is the nature of science. It was once considered 'fact' that the earth was the centre of the solar system. Now we have evidence for the contrary. And the idea that abortion causes breast cancer is not fact, as it has not been proven. If it was, people would acknowledge it so, and it would be advised as a viable cancer risk.
The most recent ones, the ones in denmark and sweden, were done last year and this year. I dont know about your ones.
Oh really then why does the link you gave me say February 2003?
Incidentally what about this: Breast cancer has risen dramatically in America by 50% since 1973, when abortions were legalized
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 04:54 AM
Oh really then why does the link you gave me say February 2003?
It wasnt the one to which I was referring. I was referring to the ones in the Wiki article.
It wasnt the one to which I was referring. I was referring to the ones in the Wiki article.
Oh ok I see.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 04:56 AM
Just a question; what do you think about artificial insemination? I mean, for women who cant get pregnant through normal means.
Just a question; what do you think about artificial insemination? I mean, for women who cant get pregnant through normal means.
I don't agree with it. It should always take two to make a life, not one and some sperm they don't know of. That's why adoption is available for people in those situations.
BTW I found something interesting that argues against your recent studies.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=35551
Also I'll ask again what do you make of the 1973 abortion rate stat I mentioned above.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 05:00 AM
I don't agree with it. It should always take two to make a life, not one and some sperm they don't know of. That's why adoption is available for people in those situations.
No like I mean between a married man and his wife for infertility?
But in the case of sperm donation, ok then. Personaly, I think that it is a viable means of conception. Its why I chose to donate sperm.
No like I mean between a married man and his wife for infertility?
As I said that's why there's adoption.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 05:04 AM
BTW I found something interesting that argues against your recent studies.
Interesting. I still dont really see any corellation between it personally, but then again im not qualified. In any case, it would be just another thing that causes cancer. I mean what doesnt these days. :D
Plus I dont see it as a viable argument. You should just as well ban the sun and cigarettes as much as abortion for that reason.
Also I'll ask again what do you make of the 1973 abortion rate stat I mentioned above.
In the rats? We'll, they are rats, that what I make of it, we have lifestyle and genetics interfereing with it. Plus, they didnt have the knowledge that we do of breast cancer and the like.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 05:06 AM
As I said that's why there's adoption.
As they say "adams flesh and adams bone". I would rather have my wife inseminated with my own DNA than have someone elses baby but each to their own.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 05:09 AM
Even if it was a breast cancer risk, Im sure they can develop medicines to prevent it. Like an, after abortion pill or something:D
In the rats? We'll, they are rats, that what I make of it, we have lifestyle and genetics interfereing with it. Plus, they didnt have the knowledge that we do of breast cancer and the like.
No no no, I mean the fact that breast cancer has risen 50 percent since 73 (when abortion became legal). You can't tell me that's a coincidence.
England Expects
12-21-2006, 09:59 AM
Prove beyond doubt to us that 25% of all breast cancer cases in the US are women who have had abortions and you're hypothesis may be worthy of consideration.
If abortion does increase the risk of cancer (and I'm yet to be convinced that it does) the facts should be made clear to the woman in question before the procedure so that she can choose.
twisted_screams
12-21-2006, 10:32 AM
Not without punishment he couldn't. Not only that, but child support costs more then you think it does. My dad had to pay $2,000 or more for me. And what if he doesn't have a steady job or isn't making that much money?
But ten bucks says its your mom that stays up with you all night when your sick, makes sure your dressed proparly makes sure your home work is done. Makes sure your well fed and takes you where you need to go.
Going with Daddy on the weekends and playing minutre golf and eating mc donalds and paying money here and there aint diddly shit
twisted_screams
12-21-2006, 10:38 AM
Take a look at this: http://www.errantskeptics.org/AbortionBreastCancer.htm
Get a Masters in psychology, do a verifiable study and I'll actually believe you on that.[/QUOTE]
Well how about I use my mom as an example. She always seems depressed today. I rarely see her smile or laugh even. Before she had me she had an abortion. Coincidence? I don't think so.[/QUOTE]
No offense ajk but maybe you and your ideas are making your mom pull her hair out i know if you where my kid i may have shove you back in for a bit and cook you a little while longer cause hon at this point in your life you remind me of Frankenstein ( picture a million women and men knocking on his door with torches ) yeap i can see it now
But ten bucks says its your mom that stays up with you all night when your sick, makes sure your dressed proparly makes sure your home work is done. Makes sure your well fed and takes you where you need to go.
Going with Daddy on the weekends and playing minutre golf and eating mc donalds and paying money here and there aint diddly shit
It is true I live with her (and my grandparents on that side of the family), but my Dad has tried his best to help raise me right too. In fact if not for him, I might be the person I am. He was the one that got me into the catholic church to begin with (wanting me to be confirmed into it, was born Lutheran). It was the best decision I could have ever made. Not to mention the fact that he freakin saved my life! That counts for something doesn't it?
Prove beyond doubt to us that 25% of all breast cancer cases in the US are women who have had abortions and you're hypothesis may be worthy of consideration.
If abortion does increase the risk of cancer (and I'm yet to be convinced that it does) the facts should be made clear to the woman in question before the procedure so that she can choose.
Alright then how about this. In 1996-OCT, four US scientists announced the result of a statistical analysis of previous studies. They selected 23 studies which involved over 60,000 women. They combined all of their results using a process known as "meta-analysis." They found "overwhelming" evidence that women who terminate a pregnancy by an abortion have a 33% higher chance of contracting breast cancer later in life.
I know that stat is a bit old, but it's still relevant.
More detailed info on why the recent abortion study is inaccurate
http://www.jhu.edu/~vfl/docs/abc-letter.htm
England Expects
12-21-2006, 01:02 PM
With respect AJK, that's not what I asked for.
What are the chances of a person who hasnt had an abortion developing brest cancer?
A 33% increase in probability isnt necessarily a huge worry.
My guess is theres more chance of a smoker dying from cancer than a woman who has an abortion. Why dont we all ban smoking?
33 percent is still plenty big. And I do think smoking should be banned too BTW.
twisted_screams
12-21-2006, 02:18 PM
You seem to have forgotten about your mom. It seems to me that maybe your dad decided to make up for his short commings by having you do the church thing.
You seem to have forgotten about your mom. It seems to me that maybe your dad decided to make up for his short commings by having you do the church thing.
Actually he himself came back to the faith as well, as he wasn't really at the time I was conceived. And no I have not forgotten about my mom.
yea_thats_right1
12-21-2006, 04:22 PM
Certain things (equal rights for other races, the moon landing) were good, but others I'd rather forget (the whole free love thing).
You know if you acctually had sex you woulnt say that... See what brainwashing does kids? geesh go get laid..
yea_thats_right1
12-21-2006, 04:26 PM
There's nothing wrong with having fun within reason. But they the way we choose to have "fun" is in no way acceptable. Least not to God it isn't. .
And you heard this directly from god? Do you know how much christianity has changed since it ewas first started?????? So how can you be sure what is true and what isnt? If you are going to say "faith" there heres my next answer... you base most of what you say on FACT... is it a proven FACT that god exists? If so where is it?
yea_thats_right1
12-21-2006, 04:34 PM
[QUOTE=ajk]Bullcrap. I've seen plenty of studies on the matter and I know that it puts women at higher risk.QUOTE]
Do you believe everything you read?? damn think for yourself for once... what do you do all day sit on your computer and look up studies done on abortion... remember friend.. they are just studies dont on random women... they dont SPEAK for ALL of us ok... And i looove how you keep saying youre "sure" the woman would feel better after having the child.... How in the hell would you know? You are a 19 year old KID brainwashed by your church, among other things.... do you know every woman on them planet? yea didnt think so... 4 or 5 studies dont on like 1000 women CANNOT speak for all of us... So maybe you should just sit down.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 04:49 PM
Omg, lets ban the sun because it causes skin cancer.:D
I still think this whole abortion causes breast cancer was a fallacious connection started as a scare tactic by some pro lifers.
General Septem
12-21-2006, 04:52 PM
I would like to know why it always seems like its more men then women that are obsesed with the abortion debate?
Because men have been killed in abortions too.
Son of a bitch, 19 pages in a day? Shiiit. :D
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 04:55 PM
I know. Its because it such a touchy topic.:D
You know if you acctually had sex you woulnt say that... See what brainwashing does kids? geesh go get laid..
I'm quite happy where I am thanks (sans some things of course). In fact I'd say I'm not the one brainwashed, rather people such as yourself have been brainwashed by the culture, to think that stuff like this is acceptable and ok when it really isn't.
And you heard this directly from god? Do you know how much christianity has changed since it ewas first started?????? So how can you be sure what is true and what isnt? If you are going to say "faith" there heres my next answer... you base most of what you say on FACT... is it a proven FACT that god exists? If so where is it?
Oh He's around, if you truly knew Him you'd know He's around.
[QUOTE=ajk]Bullcrap. I've seen plenty of studies on the matter and I know that it puts women at higher risk.QUOTE]
Do you believe everything you read?? damn think for yourself for once... what do you do all day sit on your computer and look up studies done on abortion... remember friend.. they are just studies dont on random women... they dont SPEAK for ALL of us ok... And i looove how you keep saying youre "sure" the woman would feel better after having the child.... How in the hell would you know? You are a 19 year old KID brainwashed by your church, among other things.... do you know every woman on them planet? yea didnt think so... 4 or 5 studies dont on like 1000 women CANNOT speak for all of us... So maybe you should just sit down.
How do I know? Well I don't know ALL women no. But think about it 20 years after the fact wouldn't you feel better and happier knowing you had your son or daughter, then not?
And again I say I haven't been brainwashed, but rather it's the other way around.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 05:21 PM
Omg, our lifestyle isnt acceptable to God. I dont honestly care.
Omg, our lifestyle isnt acceptable to God. I dont honestly care.
One day you will believe me. You don't now but when all is said and done you'll rue the day that you did the things you did.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 05:23 PM
And what, pray tell, have I done to deserve eternal damnation? And think about how long eternity really is.
BTW to reiterate why God exists, I can honestly tell you that I actually did hear him speak to me earlier this morning. I was laying in my bed getting ready to go to sleep, when I heard Him. He consoled me about my porn problems, and told me it would be alright and we'd get through this together. After that He left me and I went to sleep. But I swear to you that it really did happen.
And what, pray tell, have I done to deserve eternal damnation? And think about how long eternity really is.
Rejecting the truth, and rebelling against it that's what. It's one thing if you don't have any knowledge of what is right and wrong, but to know and still reject it does not help your cause.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 05:26 PM
BTW to reiterate why God exists, I can honestly tell you that I actually did hear him speak to me earlier this morning. I was laying in my bed getting ready to go to sleep, when I heard Him. He consoled me about my porn problems, and told me it would be alright and we'd get through this together. After that He left me and I went to sleep. But I swear to you that it really did happen.
No thats called wishful thinking.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 05:27 PM
Rejecting the truth, and rebelling against it that's what. It's one thing if you don't have any knowledge of what is right and wrong, but to know and still reject it does not help your cause.
SO because I refuse to belief in something that hasnt been proven, I will suffer in Hell for all eternity? Am I really deserving of that? Think about how long eternity really is.
No thats called wishful thinking.
If you truly knew God you would hear him too. Think what you want, but I know what I heard. It was anything but wishful thinking.
SO because I refuse to belief in something that hasnt been proven, I will suffer in Hell for all eternity? Am I really deserving of that? Think about how long eternity really is.
I can't judge you completely (only God will do that at the very end), but I don't think it helps any if you constantly reject that which is true.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 05:29 PM
If you truly knew God you would hear him too. Think what you want, but I know what I heard. It was anything but wishful thinking.
How can you be sure? Did he like, part the water in your bath or something?
I dont take things like that on faith mate. I need physical, verifiable evidence.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 05:30 PM
I can't judge you completely (only God will do that at the very end), but I don't think it helps any if you constantly reject that which is true.
How do you know its the truth? I recall people admitting the bible is wrong in some areas.
General Septem
12-21-2006, 05:30 PM
Wow, a whole page in ten minutes. I can't even read all of it. :D
Wow, a whole page in ten minutes. I can't even read all of it. :D
That's what happens with discussions like this, doesn't take long before it gets big.
How do you know its the truth? I recall people admitting the bible is wrong in some areas.
Got any examples?
How can you be sure? Did he like, part the water in your bath or something?
I dont take things like that on faith mate. I need physical, verifiable evidence.
In response to that all I will say is if you heard Him you would know it.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 05:33 PM
Lets see. Ok, the slaves in Egypt. Jonah and the whale, the census conducted by the romans that forced Joseph and Mary to Bethlehem. etc.
yea_thats_right1
12-21-2006, 05:37 PM
Oh He's around, if you truly knew Him you'd know He's around.
what kind of beat around the bush answer was that?? llol WONDERFUL ajk, you have tried to elude my question and failed... why dont you go ahead and answer that now
yea_thats_right1
12-21-2006, 05:44 PM
[QUOTE=yea_thats_right1]
How do I know? Well I don't know ALL women no. But think about it 20 years after the fact wouldn't you feel better and happier knowing you had your son or daughter, then not?
And again I say I haven't been brainwashed, but rather it's the other way around.
no the diffrence is I have free will in my thinking... you have to rely on ideas put ina book a LONG time ago... and you rely on them because priests and popes suffering from alzhiemers tell you to do so.... Do you know that there have been MANY scrolls that were in the bible that have been taken out because it gave leeway on "gods" rules? And i gaurentee jesus had pre marital sex... just because its not in the bible doesnt make it plausable.... Bottom line is the bible is just a way of trying to keep people in line and if you had a brain of your own you woulod know that is Brainwashing! Im not saying to blow your faith but dont do things in gods name if you dont really know that is what he truely wants....
yea_thats_right1
12-21-2006, 05:47 PM
maybe you thin k sex is a dirty thing because you watch raunchy porn.. if you would have made love before watching porn then maybe your opinion would be diffrent... dont knock it before you try it....
what kind of beat around the bush answer was that?? llol WONDERFUL ajk, you have tried to elude my question and failed... why dont you go ahead and answer that now
Just because you can't physically verify something doesn't mean it did not happen or does not exist. People need to realize that some things cannot be proven, but rather they just are. Can you prove that there is wind? You can't see it touch it or taste it. But just the same you know it's there.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 05:49 PM
Just because you can't physically verify something doesn't mean it did not happen or does not exist. People need to realize that some things cannot be proven, but rather they just are. Can you prove that there is wind? You can't see it touch it or taste it. But just the same you know it's there.
Uh no we can actually do tests to prove it, which makes your argument invalid. Just like gravity or inertia.
maybe you thin k sex is a dirty thing because you watch raunchy porn.. if you would have made love before watching porn then maybe your opinion would be diffrent... dont knock it before you try it....
I never said Sex is a dirty thing at all. It's meant to be a beautiful thing when done in the context of marriage. When done outside of a marriage it's not so good. That's all I'm saying.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 05:50 PM
Why exactly is it such a bad thing outside of marriage?
Why exactly is it such a bad thing outside of marriage?
Because God intended to be done between married couples, not just any old person under the sun.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 05:52 PM
Because God intended to be done between married couples, not just any old person under the sun.
And how do you know this? The bible isnt the infallible word of god you know.
And how do you know this? The bible isnt the infallible word of god you know.
Yes it is. It may be 2000 years old, but it's just as relevant now as it was then, if not more so.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 05:54 PM
Yes it is. It may be 2000 years old, but it's just as relevant now as it was then, if not more so.
Hardly. The bible condemns black people to slavery and condones slavery, and denies the rights of gays. It is an obselete peice of trash, basically a pastiche of various other mythologies and a bunch of obsolete laws for a nomadic society.
[QUOTE=ajk]
... Bottom line is the bible is just a way of trying to keep people in line and if you had a brain of your own you woulod know that is Brainwashing! Im not saying to blow your faith but dont do things in gods name if you dont really know that is what he truely wants....
No I know what he truly wants, and I will do my damnedest to do his will. I'm still not sure what it is in terms of my life, but whatever it is I intend to do it to the best of my ability. It is not brainwashing either. Don't think I don't question some things, I do. But at the same time I still believe, and has time has gone on I understand why God made things as they are and set the laws in place as he did more and more.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 05:58 PM
And why pray tell did he put those laws in place? Those laws were written for an nomadic society. Look at the ancient greeks and romans! They didnt have the bible and their societies prospered.
Let me ask you something. This is for all the non-believers. Have you ever stopped and asked yourself: "Why am I doing this, what's the point?". If you can honestly say that you haven't, then I would have to say that you are brainwashed by the culture. Being brainwashed to me means doing things without thinking or questioning them at all.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 06:00 PM
I ask myself that all the time.
And you are brainwashed because have you ever questioned the Church? Or even the validity of the Bible? Or the existence of god or its nature?
I ask myself that all the time.
And you are brainwashed because have you ever questioned the Church? Or even the validity of the Bible? Or the existence of god or its nature?
I have, sometimes I wonder why things are as they are. Doesn't mean I don't believe however.
And why pray tell did he put those laws in place? Those laws were written for an nomadic society. Look at the ancient greeks and romans! They didnt have the bible and their societies prospered.
To the naked eye yes, but in the eyes of God whatever they made meant nothing.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 06:05 PM
Nothing then? So democracy, philosophy, medicine and a great understanding of the world for their time meant nothing did it?
yea_thats_right1
12-21-2006, 06:06 PM
why isnt there any refrence to dinosaurs in the bible? just a question...
Nothing then? So democracy, philosophy, medicine and a great understanding of the world for their time meant nothing did it?
What we do on this earth, whatever money we make or what have you doesn't mean anything really in the end. Sure it may effect generations to come, but as far as your own life, God doesn't care about how much money you made and things of that nature.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 06:08 PM
Ok then, if this life means nothing, then we are doing aborted foeti a favor then. They'll just go up to heaven.
yea_thats_right1
12-21-2006, 06:11 PM
WHAT ABOUT THE DINOSAURS?? i want this question answered dmanit... where are the dinosaurs in the bible??
Ok then, if this life means nothing, then we are doing aborted foeti a favor then. They'll just go up to heaven.
That's not the point though, they deserve a chance to make something of their life just as we do.
WHAT ABOUT THE DINOSAURS?? i want this question answered dmanit... where are the dinosaurs in the bible??
Does everything that ever happened need to be covered in the Bible?
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 06:12 PM
But I thought you said that what we do in this life is meaningless? Why give them a chance to fuck it up and go to hell when they can just go to heaven, since it is so much more preferable to this plane of existence?
But I thought you said that what we do in this life is meaningless? Why give them a chance to fuck it up and go to hell when they can just go to heaven, since it is so much more preferable to this plane of existence?
Because every human life has a purpose here to do something, and deserves a shot at whatever there purpose is.
yea_thats_right1
12-21-2006, 06:15 PM
it should be... then atleast it would be based entirely on factual events.. but that still doesnt answer my question .. come one AJK arnt you "all knowing" doesnt "god speak to you" ask him tonight and get back to me tomorrow :P
it should be... then atleast it would be based entirely on factual events.. :P
But see that's the thing. The Bible would never be complete then now would it?
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 06:17 PM
This is one of the reasons why religion exists. There are three reasons-
1)To explain the unexplainable
2)To control the populace
3)To give purpose to life
Why does life even need a purpose? Cos it makes you happy? Pfft, I would rather live a free life as I do now than restrict myself for the sake of an afterlife which hasnt been proven exists.
This is one of the reasons why religion exists. There are three reasons-
1)To explain the unexplainable
2)To control the populace
3)To give purpose to life
Why does life even need a purpose?
Because otherwise we'd be no better then the animals. Running around doing as we please when we please.
yea_thats_right1
12-21-2006, 06:20 PM
wow im starting to think that you dont really know what the hell youre talking about half the time... you never answer questions directly
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 06:20 PM
But animals dont do that now do they?
And the non existence of an afterlife doesnt result in hedonism. Its called the law, our humanist laws, which dont give a fuck if there is an afterlife or not.
wow im starting to think that you dont really know what the hell youre talking about half the time... you never answer questions directly
What do you mean? I try the best I can to answer any questions thrown at me.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 06:21 PM
How does the existence of an afterlife corellate to how we act in this life? Hmm?
yea_thats_right1
12-21-2006, 06:22 PM
This is one of the reasons why religion exists. There are three reasons-
1)To explain the unexplainable
2)To control the populace
3)To give purpose to life
Why does life even need a purpose? Cos it makes you happy? Pfft, I would rather live a free life as I do now than restrict myself for the sake of an afterlife which hasnt been proven exists.
Ausinus you should stop wasting your time.. he will just go on and on giving half assed unproven "facts" as he likes to call them... or he will answer your questions with more questions, thus never really answering you at all :)
But animals dont do that now do they?
Some do.
And the non existence of an afterlife doesnt result in hedonism. Its called the law, our humanist laws, which dont give a fuck if there is an afterlife or not.
To a certain degree it does. Because we have nothing to answer to once we're gone if there's no afterlife.
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 06:22 PM
Im sorry im addicted already. Its so funny watching him struggle.:D
Ausinus
12-21-2006, 06:24 PM
Some do.
They dont have sex 24/7, nor do they eat constantly. Animals arent as hedonistic as you think. True, they are ID creatures, but they arent run by it.
To a certain degree it does. Because we have nothing to answer to once we're gone if there's no afterlife.
We have the law. Our humanist laws. Just because we arent judged after death doesnt mean that we wont be judged in life.
yea_thats_right1
12-21-2006, 06:25 PM
If god is a forgiving god... which is what the bible says... then i will live my life like im going to die tomorrow and ask forgivness when i get to it... hell im only human... if he really wanted us to be what you keep saying he wants us to be then he rushed when he created us.... Oh and he should have made women to start puberty untill the union of marriage... hes god right? he can do anything...
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