Faith Healings

[Phoenix]

Specifically the ones where the patient doesn't live, and even more so the ones where the parents of a child decide they'd rather pray about it than take their 15-month-old daughter to a hospital for pneumonia.
http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamascounty/index.ssf/2009/06/worthington_faithhealing_trial.html

Or the ones where parents would rather pray about it than take their son, who later dies of a ruptured appendix, to a hospital for food poisoning.
http://reedsecular.org/2009/08/29/another-month-another-faith-healing-death/

These fuckin lunatics need to be goddamn stopped.

I mean shit, if you want to pray about yourself and you end up dying, I'm gonna sit here and laugh at how much of a fucking dumbass you are, but when these people make this dumbass decision for their kids, I tend to get pissed off.

[LedZap]

Faith Healings ....yeah,pretty idiotic

[yee-haw]

Interesting topic phoenix, I agree... i mean faith is good but doctors and medicine has been proven to heal at a greater rate.
I'm not knocking faith but if it were to come to one of my kids, Yea the ER or family doctor sounds like the more logical choice IMO.

[LedZap]

I like medicine doctors ...a bone in their nose and a HO HO HO

[yee-haw]

I like medicine doctors ...a bone in their nose and a HO HO HO

The kind you trade 2 beaver pelts for services?

[LedZap]

Yeah...maybe they'll help get rid of this magnum monobrow...

http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg345/LedZap/MagnumBrow.jpg

[Ope]

You can't just pin this on the religious quacks. It applies to all pseudo-scientific medicine. Kids are dying constantly because people are horrible, uninformed parents. Homeopathy, acupuncture, naturopathy, etc. etc. etc. The list is insanely long, and sadly, is growing as opposed to shrinking.

[freakazoid]

You can't just pin this on the religious quacks. It applies to all pseudo-scientific medicine. Kids are dying constantly because people are horrible, uninformed parents. Homeopathy, acupuncture, naturopathy, etc. etc. etc. The list is insanely long, and sadly, is growing as opposed to shrinking.

Absolutely, well said.

[Carrot]

You can't just pin this on the religious quacks. It applies to all pseudo-scientific medicine. Kids are dying constantly because people are horrible, uninformed parents. Homeopathy, acupuncture, naturopathy, etc. etc. etc. The list is insanely long, and sadly, is growing as opposed to shrinking.

Even though they're all quacks, homeopathy and acupuncture etc isn't (to my knowledge) taken when their life is in danger (unless actual medicine has already failed).

[freakazoid]

Specifically the ones where the patient doesn't live, and even more so the ones where the parents of a child decide they'd rather pray about it than take their 15-month-old daughter to a hospital for pneumonia.
http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamascounty/index.ssf/2009/06/worthington_faithhealing_trial.html

Or the ones where parents would rather pray about it than take their son, who later dies of a ruptured appendix, to a hospital for food poisoning.
http://reedsecular.org/2009/08/29/another-month-another-faith-healing-death/

These fuckin lunatics need to be goddamn stopped.

I mean shit, if you want to pray about yourself and you end up dying, I'm gonna sit here and laugh at how much of a fucking dumbass you are, but when these people make this dumbass decision for their kids, I tend to get pissed off.

These types of incidences are extremely rare relatively speaking and, generally speaking, hard to prove if a so-called "faith healer" was the cause of death as in the case of Zakk Swezey in the website you posted. In Zakk Swezey's case it was clearly his parents who are to blame. From your posted website...

What did his parents do? The answer is they prayed; no visits to the emergency room, no medications, no nothing.

Personally I believe in prayer, but I also believe in common sense. If Zakk Swezey would have badly cut his knee or split open his lip I can all but assure you that even his ignorant parents would have put a bandaid on the wound or taken Swezey to an emergency room. In other words, they weren't thinking very straight. What is the difference between a bad or severe wound and a ruptured appendix? In the context of this subject, nothing. Both require medical attention, though one was deadly.

The Bible in NO WAY sanctions keeping a person away from medical help or medicine that can help and/or save a life...

In the Book of the Revelation (22:2) there is a tree (not a pharmacy) that has leaves for the healing of the nations. The Scriptures are full of instances where foods (herbs) were used in the divine order for the restoration of health.

His parents should face criminal action against them. Don't judge the many Christians by the few fools and idiots.

[Phoenix]

These types of incidences are extremely rare relatively speaking and, generally speaking, hard to prove if a so-called "faith healer" was the cause of death as in the case of Zakk Swezey in the website you posted. In Zakk Swezey's case it was clearly his parents who are to blame. From your posted website...

What did his parents do? The answer is they prayed; no visits to the emergency room, no medications, no nothing.

Personally I believe in prayer, but I also believe in common sense. If Zakk Swezey would have badly cut his knee or split open his lip I can all but assure you that even his ignorant parents would have put a bandaid on the wound or taken Swezey to an emergency room. In other words, they weren't thinking very straight. What is the difference between a bad or severe wound and a ruptured appendix? In the context of this subject, nothing. Both require medical attention, though one was deadly.

The Bible in NO WAY sanctions keeping a person away from medical help or medicine that can help and/or save a life...

In the Book of the Revelation (22:2) there is a tree (not a pharmacy) that has leaves for the healing of the nations. The Scriptures are full of instances where foods (herbs) were used in the divine order for the restoration of health.

His parents should face criminal action against them. Don't judge the many Christians by the few fools and idiots.
Look, this isn't some sadass attempt to blast christianity. If I wanted to do that, I've got plenty of ways to bitch and scream about that. I'm just saying that people like this guy's stupid fucking parents are some stupid fuckers.

Yeah.....that could have been phrased better.

[freakazoid]

Look, this isn't some sadass attempt to blast christianity. If I wanted to do that, I've got plenty of ways to bitch and scream about that. I'm just saying that people like this guy's stupid fucking parents are some stupid fuckers.

Yeah.....that could have been phrased better.

You're blaming the wrong people. His parent's are to blame. Who cares what a "faith healer" says. If dumb people choose to listen to one, silly them. They have the right to listen and believe what they want. They do not, however, have the right to withhold competent and necessary medical help from a minor, even if said minor is their own child.

And, I might add, one of the most dangerous and destructive belief systems unleashed on mankind has been marxism, far out doing a few mere "faith healers" in the sheer killing of human life. Given the choice, I'll take a "faith healer" any day as opposed to an insane killer like stalin who killed millions of innocent people in the name of his faith, communism.

[Phoenix]

You're blaming the wrong people. His parent's are to blame. Who cares what a "faith healer" says. If dumb people choose to listen to one, silly them. They have the right to listen and believe what they want. They do not, however, have the right to withhold competent and necessary medical help from a minor, even if said minor is their own child.
I am blaming the parents....


And, I might add, one of the most dangerous and destructive belief systems unleashed on mankind has been marxism, far out doing a few mere "faith healers" in the sheer killing of human life. Given the choice, I'll take a "faith healer" any day as opposed to an insane killer like stalin who killed millions of innocent people in the name of his faith, communism.
Stalin's an ass???? Goddamn, Sherlock, what gave you your first clue???? In fact, Lenin was trying to kick stalin's ass out of power from his death bed. Yeah, Stalin was an insane asshole, just like his butt-buddy hitler. Of course if you wanted to go the route of communism is bad because stalin is an ass, I could say the same about Christianity because Hitler professed to be a devout Christian, however both of these bullshit arguments are just that, logical fallacies, in this case guilt by association, which are completely fucking worthless in debate.

[Phoenix]

And in case someone wants to argue with the completely moot point that Hitler did in fact profess to be a Christian, let's have a look here:
From a speech in 1922:
“As a human being it is my duty to see to it that humanity will not suffer the same catastrophic collapse as did that old civilization two thousand years ago, a civilization which was driven to its ruin by the Jews. . . I am convinced that I am really a devil and not a Christian if I do not feel compassion and do not wage war, as Christ did two thousand years ago, against those who are steeling and exploiting these poverty-stricken people."
From Mein Kampf:
“Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.”
“Anyone who dares to lay hands on the highest image of the Lord commits sacrilege against the benevolent creator of this miracle and contributes to the expulsion from paradise.”
“Even today I am not ashamed to say that, overpowered by stormy enthusiasm, I fell down on my knees and thanked Heaven from an overflowing heart for granting me the good fortune of being permitted to live at this time. A fight for freedom had begun mightier than the earth had ever seen; for once Destiny had begun its course, the conviction dawned on even the broad masses that this time not the fate of Serbia or Austria was involved, but whether the German nation was to be or not to be.”

'Nuff said.

[freakazoid]

I am

I am blaming the parents....

No you were not, your post targeted faith healers, NOT the parents. I put the blame where it belonged; on the parents.

Stalin's an ass???? Goddamn, Sherlock, what gave you your first clue????

Stop talking like an idiot, "Sherlock," you have yet to prove that you understand one damn thing about marxism. Tell me the underline goal of communism. Until you can, I suggest that you learn, boy.

I pointed out that marxism/communism is a faith that has killed far more than any group of faith healers could possibly imagine. stalin was simply an example of one. A recent example of an insane marxist mass murdering piece of worthless maggot shit who should have been dragged out of his hole and shot in the head and then feed to pigs was Pal Pot; he murdered 1/3 of the people of Cambodia.

http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipedia/en/0/08/PolPotdead.gif

The Khmer Rouge abolished currency, religion and private property and evacuated cities in the hopes of creating a Maoist (http://www.answers.com/topic/mao-zedong) agrarian society free of Western influence (though, like Mao, Pol Pot had studied the works of V. I. Lenin (http://www.answers.com/topic/vladimir-i-lenin) and Karl Marx (http://www.answers.com/topic/karl-marx) in Europe). Under his regime, forced labor, executions and famine killed between 1.5 and 2 million Cambodians (more than 20% of the population).

Faith healers couldn't hold a candle to mass murdering pond scum like pal pot.

In fact, Lenin was trying to kick stalin's ass out of power from his death bed.

As if lenin was any better. He was just as insane as stalin. If trotsky had been in power he would have been just as insane a murderer as stalin.

Yeah, Stalin was an insane asshole, just like his butt-buddy hitler.

No shit, really, you think?

Of course if you wanted to go the route of communism is bad because stalin is an ass, I could say the same about Christianity because Hitler professed to be a devout Christian,

Bullshit, TOTAL BULLSHIT! He used Christian sounding rhetoric, nothing more. He was NOT a Christian. See - http://answers.org/apologetics/hitquote.html 'Nuff said.

however both of these bullshit arguments are just that, logical fallacies, in this case guilt by association, which are completely fucking worthless in debate.

Then why post it?

[Phoenix]

I am blaming the parents....

No you were not, your post targeted faith healers, NOT the parents. I put the blame where it belonged; on the parents.

Read asshole.
These fuckin lunatics need to be goddamn stopped.

I mean shit, if you want to pray about yourself and you end up dying, I'm gonna sit here and laugh at how much of a fucking dumbass you are, but when these people make this dumbass decision for their kids, I tend to get pissed off.
Stalin's an ass???? Goddamn, Sherlock, what gave you your first clue????



Stop talking like an idiot, "Sherlock," you have yet to prove that you understand one damn thing about marxism. Tell me the underline goal of communism. Until you can, I suggest that you learn, boy.
The goal of Marxism is to unite the workers against their higher-class oppressors in an attempt to close the class gap by worker's revolution which creates the "dictatorship of the proletariat," and centralise the economy, and this is a direct quote from that Manifesto you claim to have read, "in the hands of the state, i.e. the [B]proletariat organised as the ruling class." If you honestly understood this shit, you'd shut your ass up right now, but as I can see you clearly don't, I shall cease my futile attempts to argue with a goddamn brick, especially after your show of incompetence by first arguing against a strawman, and then arguing with me about what my position is.

[freakazoid]

Read asshole.
These fuckin lunatics need to be goddamn stopped.

I mean shit, if you want to pray about yourself and you end up dying, I'm gonna sit here and laugh at how much of a fucking dumbass you are, but when these people make this dumbass decision for their kids, I tend to get pissed off.
Stalin's an ass???? Goddamn, Sherlock, what gave you your first clue????



The goal of Marxism is to unite the workers against their higher-class oppressors in an attempt to close the class gap by worker's revolution which creates the "dictatorship of the proletariat," and centralise the economy, and this is a direct quote from that Manifesto you claim to have read, "in the hands of the state, i.e. the [B]proletariat organised as the ruling class." If you honestly understood this shit, you'd shut your ass up right now, but as I can see you clearly don't, I shall cease my futile attempts to argue with a goddamn brick.


RE: "The goal of Marxism is to unite the workers against their higher-class oppressors in an attempt to close the class gap by worker's revolution which creates the "dictatorship of the proletariat,"

WRONG, junior. 100% wrong. You haven't got a farking clue about marxism. NOT ONE DAMN CLUE.

Here ya go, junior. Time to learn...

Using the "discovered principle" of "Dialectic Materialism" marxists have one and ONLY one final goal;

"The perfection of humanity."

NOTHING ELSE. Why? Simple; because they believe that "a perfect human society" will create a "worker's paradise."

The so-called "dictatorship of the proletariat" was NEVER their final goal. NEVER. It was at best a small step to their goal, dumb ass.

LEARN A FEW THINGS, BOY, BEFORE PUTTING YOUR TEEN AGED FOOT IN YOUR MOUTH.

A "dictatorship of the proletariat" presupposes a government and economy on socialist lines; marxists neither desire or want either believing that when society has been "perfected" neither will be necessary.

LEARN, DUMB ASS, LEARN!!



.

[Phoenix]

RE: "The goal of Marxism is to unite the workers against their higher-class oppressors in an attempt to close the class gap by worker's revolution which creates the "dictatorship of the proletariat,"

WRONG, junior. 100% wrong. You haven't got a farking clue about marxism. NOT ONE DAMN CLUE.

Here ya go, junior. Time to learn...

Using the "discovered principle" of "Dialectic Materialism" marxists have one and ONLY one final goal;

"The perfection of humanity."

NOTHING ELSE. Why? Simple; because they believe that "a perfect human society" will create a "worker's paradise."

The so-called "dictatorship of the proletariat" was NEVER their final goal. NEVER. It was at best a small step to their goal, dumb ass.

LEARN A FEW THINGS, BOY, BEFORE PUTTING YOUR TEEN AGED FOOT IN YOUR MOUTH.
Well goddamn. I done fucked up. I'm a goddamn homo sapien. this proves it. motherfuck. I'm gonna go goddamn shoot myself, because I'm not a goddamn deity. Really. Shit. How dare I forget to mention that once the class system is dissolved, thus the state dissolves with it, for there can be no classless society with rulers. Goddamn. How dare I expect you to get that conclusion on your own, instead of me explicitly stating it.

Or is that you putting your own foot in your mouth for describing the Communistic goal as perfect? Or is that a strawman as well? I never can tell. It may be double talk.

Or you may just be an asshat.

Unfortunately, none of this has to do with the stupidity of using faith healing in place of proper medical treatment, and thus I bid you good night.

[freakazoid]

Well goddamn. I done fucked up. I'm a goddamn homo sapien. this proves it. motherfuck. I'm gonna go goddamn shoot myself, because I'm not a goddamn deity. Really. Shit. How dare I forget to mention that once the class system is dissolved, thus the state dissolves with it, for there can be no classless society with rulers. Goddamn. How dare I expect you to get that conclusion on your own, instead of me explicitly stating it.

Or is that you putting your own foot in your mouth for describing the Communistic goal as perfect? Or is that a strawman as well? I never can tell. It may be double talk.

Or you may just be an asshat.

Unfortunately, none of this has to do with the stupidity of using faith healing in place of proper medical treatment, and thus I bid you good night.

Phoenix, learn a few things, BEFORE you open your mouth. That way you won't look so damn ignorant.

Remember...

Best to keep one's mouth closed and be thought of as a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

Trust me, you haven't a damn clue as to what marxism is about and how dangerous it is. NOT A CLUE.


A "dictatorship of the proletariat" presupposes a government and economy on socialist lines; marxists neither desire or want either believing that when society has been "perfected" neither will be necessary.

[alinageorge]

Faith healing is the belief that religious faith can bring healing, either for the prayers and rites, such as fans, evoke a divine presence and power of correction of disease and disability, faith healing can occur at a distance.

[Skeltered]

and please keep yours (distance).

[MrJim]

mods, please remove alinageorge's signature line. thanks.

[beelzebub]

You can't just pin this on the religious quacks. It applies to all pseudo-scientific medicine. Kids are dying constantly because people are horrible, uninformed parents. Homeopathy, acupuncture, naturopathy, etc. etc. etc. The list is insanely long, and sadly, is growing as opposed to shrinking.

True that,... but because the religious nuts are so flamboyant they get a lot of the attention:

http://www.dvorak.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/billy-burke-faith-healing.jpg

http://www.dctheatrereviews.com/pics/holyghosts1.jpg