About the hell.

[something]

I was studding the bible, and the hell isn't directly mention as a place were your soul burns for ever, untill the new testament. No, it's mention as a place of regretion, and wewre you realices that the things you did was horrible and only if you regret what you did, you will get to heaven.

If you come up with something else, please tell me, but you have to agree it's a bit unfair that you get punished for ever, for some thing you did, during your lifetime.

[Ausinus]

Um, just a slight correction its just "Hell" over here.

And I do agree, its a bloodthirsty idea meant to scare people into joining christianity.

[something]

[QUOTE=Ausinus]Um, just a slight correction its just "Hell" over here.QUOTE]

Allright, thanks, I'm working on my english.:D

[theicidal maniac]

I was studding the bible, and the hell isn't directly mention as a place were your soul burns for ever, untill the new testament. No, it's mention as a place of regretion, and wewre you realices that the things you did was horrible and only if you regret what you did, you will get to heaven.

If you come up with something else, please tell me, but you have to agree it's a bit unfair that you get punished for ever, for some thing you did, during your lifetime.
That's because hell is a relatively new theological idea...Hell wasn't really something that the Jews believed in, and certainly they didn't believe in Satan, way back in the day. In fact many people believe that the 'serpent' in the old testament is merely a phallic symbol.

Many of the shi'ite muslims that I have talked to have mentioned that they believe that if you sin, you will do time in hell, regardless of whether or not you are repentant...repentance doesn't save you from anything. But, on the other hand, you SERVE TIME in hell...it's not an ETERNITY thing...I think this idea is far better than the christian idea, at least according to our ideas about justice.

[ajk]

But, on the other hand, you SERVE TIME in hell...it's not an ETERNITY thing...I think this idea is far better than the christian idea, at least according to our ideas about justice.


Bear in mind there is also something called purgatory. People who will eventually make it to Heaven, but aren't quite ready yet serve time for their sins then.

[Ausinus]

Bear in mind there is also something called purgatory. People who will eventually make it to Heaven, but aren't quite ready yet serve time for their sins then.

Something called purgatory, another thing not mentioned in the bible. It shows how derivative christianity is of other faiths, in this case hellenism. And how do you know who goes to purgatory, and why do you think it is fair for some people to be punished for eternity but not others?

And once again, more bullshit to scare people into joining christianity.

[theicidal maniac]

And once again, more bullshit to scare people into joining christianity.

Actually, I think the function is to scare people to keep them from LEAVING the faith, which is a function that ALL cults have.

[Ausinus]

Well pretty much. Plus if you scare a gullible pagan with hell they might join your faith.

[yea_thats_right1]

i stand by my theory that god is an alien, from a distant galaxy

[Ausinus]

How come ive never heard this theory?:D

[theicidal maniac]

i stand by my theory that god is an alien, from a distant galaxy

So, is God from, like, the Zeta Reticuli binary star system?

[yea_thats_right1]

How come ive never heard this theory?:D

because i just made it up:D

[yea_thats_right1]

So, is God from, like, the Zeta Reticuli binary star system?


i have no idea,like.;)

[Ausinus]

That sounds like a heaven's gate theory :eek: Omg, how come you didnt kill yourself with the others ?:D

[theicidal maniac]

Yeah, you should check out ZetaTalk...they share the alien belief...it's great. This lady "NANCY" is their emissary to the Aliens, who will come during the "aftertime." And you thought you were making up something completely unbelievable...:p

I don't know if you guys ever listen to Muse, but they are awesome! They made a reference to the Zeta's in a recent song. That's where I heard about it from them, just so that you don't think I'm some cultist. After all, I do live in UTAH!

[who897]

What ever happened to the theory that we are just an atom making up some larger object, well at least the electrons of an atom?

[Ausinus]

I think it commited suicide with most of the other bogus cults:D

[LolPwned]

I personally dont believe that god would condemn anyone to hell. I believe bad people who have not been punished in this life go to purgatory and are eventually let in to heaven.

[Ausinus]

I personally dont believe that god would condemn anyone to hell. I believe bad people who have not been punished in this life go to purgatory and are eventually let in to heaven.

Then you are a very good person. Many christians could afford to be like you.

[ajk]

I personally dont believe that god would condemn anyone to hell. I believe bad people who have not been punished in this life go to purgatory and are eventually let in to heaven.

May I ask why? Keep in mind, God doesn't condemn the people to Hell. He wants us all to be with Him. But if they don't want to be, he's not going to force them.

[LolPwned]

Because I dont believe in hell. After purgatory or if they have been good, I believe then they go to their own version of heaven, or lack thereof. God will not force you to be with him.

[ajk]

How can there be more then one Heaven? That makes no sense at all.

[something]

How can there be more then one Heaven? That makes no sense at all.

Well maybe everyone don't like the same things, so if heaven is going to be god for everyone, so should it be more then one.

[something]

Well maybe everyone don't like the same things, so if heaven is going to be god for everyone, so should it be more then one.

GOOD for everyone.

[General Septem]

Something called purgatory, another thing not mentioned in the bible. It shows how derivative christianity is of other faiths, in this case hellenism. And how do you know who goes to purgatory, and why do you think it is fair for some people to be punished for eternity but not others?

It's in the Bible, it's in the apocrypha.

[something]

It's in the Bible, it's in the apocrypha.

I respect you beliving in it, but do you reall think it's fair, just becouse it's in the bible?

[theicidal maniac]

It's in the Bible, it's in the apocrypha.

It's not in the Torah....It's not in the Nevi'im...It's not a traditionally Jewish idea according to the Old Testament. So that means Christinas made it up. Mormons believe that, though. It's called "spirit prison." I guess Genny believes pretty much the same as the Mormons on that one. Good form, I say!

[ajk]

Well maybe everyone don't like the same things, so if heaven is going to be god for everyone, so should it be more then one.

So if they worshipped Satan, they'd be in Satan's version of Heaven?

[Ausinus]

Hey man, satanists dont worship satan as you think of it. Its not even your religion's idea, you stole it from paganism.

[ajk]

Well how do you think of Satan then?

[Ausinus]

Well, originally Satan was the prechristian god of pleasure.

Nowdays, satanism is an atheistic religion or perhaps philosophy, that treats satan as a symbol to instinct, carnal desires and free will.

[who897]

I think of Satan as this guy bob I once new. Quite fella, wore glasses. Rather pleasent person to be around. But damn he had a freaking horse cock...I was super envyous. :D

[beelzebub]

I was studding the bible, and the hell isn't directly mention as a place were your soul burns for ever, untill the new testament. No, it's mention as a place of regretion, and wewre you realices that the things you did was horrible and only if you regret what you did, you will get to heaven.
If you come up with something else, please tell me, but you have to agree it's a bit unfair that you get punished for ever, for some thing you did, during your lifetime.

The modern view of hell and the devil was formed from the literary work "The Divine Comedy"by Dante.

[theicidal maniac]

I think of Satan as just another instance of superstitious bullshit myself. I mean it's no coincidence that Santa and Satan are spelled the same...they're both all in red, they're both made up to keep people from misbehaving, they both live in imaginary locations, but if you try to tell their believers that they don't exist they cry like little babies and throw fits.

[beelzebub]

But really.... On this whole hell issue. Supposedly there is gnashing of teeth, burning and torture. It is supposed to be just horrible.

But now let us think about it... You are in hell the first day. You scream and scream its horrible and very awful. A year later you are either catatonic or very upset in hell. After a million years won't it be just like everyday existence? Eventually your existence that was on earth will be a drop in the bucket of time spent in hell. I mean you would have to get used to it and it would cease to be so horrible.

Let us just ignore the fact that an "all-good god" has created a being with the full knowledge that they will end up in hell and suffer for all eternity.

[ajk]

Again he doesn't put them there. They choose to be there. There's a big difference. He wants us all to be with Him, but if they don't want to be, he won't force us.

[beelzebub]

Again he doesn't put them there. They choose to be there. There's a big difference. He wants us all to be with Him, but if they don't want to be, he won't force us.

Again you miss the point.

[General Septem]

Let us just ignore the fact that an "all-good god" has created a being with the full knowledge that they will end up in hell and suffer for all eternity.

If God had not created us, then yes, nobody would end up in Hell, but then nobody would end up in Heaven either.

[ajk]

It's true though. God may know all per se, but that doesn't mean he sends us to Hell. He knows what decisions will send us where, but not neccessarily what decisions we will make. If we make the right decisions we will be with Him in the end, and if we make the wrong ones we will not. It's up to us ultimately.

[Ausinus]

Let me ask you this: Why do we need a heaven or an afterlife?

The notion of hell is ridiculous. People who do murder and such , and even totally trivial things such as speaking against god, within the span of about 90 years are sent to hell to be punished for said sins for all eternity. That is quite an excessive punishment.

[General Septem]

Let me ask you this: Why do we need a heaven or an afterlife?

The notion of hell is ridiculous. People who do murder and such , and even totally trivial things such as speaking against god, within the span of about 90 years are sent to hell to be punished for said sins for all eternity. That is quite an excessive punishment.

It's not punishment, and it's not a result of murder. It is a result of the choice of being separate from God. God doesn't want to force Himself on anyone even though it is in their best interest, so if someone chooses to be separate from God, they get their wish. It's not a punishment, it's a choice.

[Ausinus]

Perhaps you were asleep in your church when they taught you about the whole fire and lakes of sulphur thing.

[General Septem]

Perhaps you were asleep in your church when they taught you about the whole fire and lakes of sulphur thing.

They never bring it up at my Church, but I get your point, and what exactly is your point?

[ajk]

I think he's saying that those things constitute a punishment.

[Ausinus]

Why do people who "choose" not be with god get sent to the place of "fire and sulphur" for all eternity?

[ajk]

Because there's only two places you can go after you die. Technically three if you count purgatory, but eventually you end up in one of two places. You choose to be with God, you go to Heaven. If not you go to Hell, that's it.

[Ausinus]

You are missing the point. How does

Sins/denying god in the space of about 90 years = equate to = punishment for denying god/those sins for all eternity?

How is it just? Is it not an overly excessive punishment?

[General Septem]

Why do people who "choose" not be with god get sent to the place of "fire and sulphur" for all eternity?

Without God, there is suffering. No enjoyment or happiness is possible without God. The difference between Heaven and Hell is that Heaven is the presence of God, and Hell is the absence of God.

[General Septem]

You are missing the point. How does

Sins/denying god in the space of about 90 years = equate to = punishment for denying god/those sins for all eternity?

How is it just? Is it not an overly excessive punishment?
I said, it's not a punishment, asshole.

[Ausinus]

How does "choosing" not be to be with god for the space of about 90 years merit punishment for eternity especially since you would accept god if you were punished in the afterlife.

[Ausinus]

I said, it's not a punishment, asshole.

Perhaps you miss the definition of punishment. It is a negative consequence bestowed upon a person who has done a wrong. Which having "no love or happiness" for eternity would be.

[ajk]

Of course you would then, but it would be too late. You had your chance while alive, failed to take it and as a result you suffer for it.

[Ausinus]

Of course you would then, but it would be too late. You had your chance while alive, failed to take it and as a result you suffer for it.

How do you deserve punishment for ETERNITY? Which is forever, an infinite amount of time; You would never stop being punished. How does a life of denying god merit an eternity of punishment?

[ajk]

Look I'm not gonna lie to you here. I don't have all the answers, nor do any of us. Some things we weren't meant to know just yet. We will know in time, but as of now we don't. Only God himself knows why he made some things as they are. Nevertheless it would be wise to heed what he says, because he has our best interests in mind.

[Ausinus]

Ha. Reverting to the old revelation of motive argument are we? I have debated enough to know that means you are beaten, and unable to answer the question. You are presenting an inarguable statement.

[ajk]

I can't, I don't know why some things are as they are. They simply are. We were given a limited knowledge capacity. We can't and don't know everything.

[Ausinus]

Ok, now here is where you view or existance is somewhat altered. You state that people go to hell blah blah, when there is no evidence to prove the existence of hell. Hell isnt an "is" its at the very most a "maybe".

We dont know everything, but we do know a lot and are learning more.

[ajk]

No I know there is a Hell. Why God created a Hell, and things of that nature I really couldn't say. But it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. We know some things, but as for why they are as they are we don't always have that knowledge.

[Ausinus]

Ok, so have you been to hell then?

[ajk]

Evidence has nothing to do with this type of thing. There is no way to literally prove that something such as this exists. However just because there is no way to actually prove it on a physical level, it doesn't change the fact that in the end it does still exist. What it takes is having faith to believe and accept this as the truth it is.

[Ausinus]

Faith and Truth are mutually exclusive things. You cannot "know" something to be the truth with any degree of surety unless you can verify its existance through experience and are able to verify it to others. You can only "believe" something to be true.

[ineedcoffee]

May I ask why? Keep in mind, God doesn't condemn the people to Hell. He wants us all to be with Him. But if they don't want to be, he's not going to force them.

God doesn't condemn anybody to hell.

If God is all powerful (which I believe he is), he can do everything and anything he wants. If he, as you correctly stated, wants us all to be with him, he can do it despite what we might do or say. We are not going to hell, or purgatory.

The whole idea of hell, as stated by others here, is a human invention.

Saying that people are going to hell, even though God doesn't want them there, is saying that God is NOT all powerful.

It's about time that "Christians" started concentrating on loving and caring for people instead of judging who is going to heaven or hell or wherever. That's not your responsibility (or mine). Jesus didn't do that, so why should we? The only people he condemned were the religious leaders...

[England Expects]

Even the bible says there is no hell. Check the book of Ecclesiastes chapter 9


"2 All share a common destiny—the righteous and the wicked, the good and the bad, [a] the clean and the unclean, those who offer sacrifices and those who do not.
As it is with the good man,
so with the sinner;
as it is with those who take oaths,
so with those who are afraid to take them."


And further

" 5 For the living know that they will die,
but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
and even the memory of them is forgotten.

6 Their love, their hate
and their jealousy have long since vanished;
never again will they have a part
in anything that happens under the sun.

7 Go, eat your food with gladness, and drink your wine with a joyful heart, for it is now that God favors what you do. 8 Always be clothed in white, and always anoint your head with oil. 9 Enjoy life with your wife, whom you love, all the days of this meaningless life that God has given you under the sun— all your meaningless days. For this is your lot in life and in your toilsome labor under the sun. 10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the grave, [c] where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom. "

It kinda pisses all over the idea of eternal damnation don't you think??

[theicidal maniac]

God doesn't condemn anybody to hell.

If God is all powerful (which I believe he is), he can do everything and anything he wants. If he, as you correctly stated, wants us all to be with him, he can do it despite what we might do or say. We are not going to hell, or purgatory.

The whole idea of hell, as stated by others here, is a human invention.

Saying that people are going to hell, even though God doesn't want them there, is saying that God is NOT all powerful.

It's about time that "Christians" started concentrating on loving and caring for people instead of judging who is going to heaven or hell or wherever. That's not your responsibility (or mine). Jesus didn't do that, so why should we? The only people he condemned were the religious leaders...

Jesus certainly DID spend a great deal talking about hell and damnation, according to the New Testament.

[Ape-Shit]

Hell is when you drop your open faced peanut butter sandwich on the ground and then still have to eat it.:p

[General Septem]

Saying that people are going to hell, even though God doesn't want them there, is saying that God is NOT all powerful.

No, it's saying that God allows us to make our own choices.


It's about time that "Christians" started concentrating on loving and caring for people instead of judging who is going to heaven or hell or wherever. That's not your responsibility (or mine). Jesus didn't do that, so why should we? The only people he condemned were the religious leaders...

Agreed. It's not our place to judge anyway.

[ohreally]

May I ask why? Keep in mind, God doesn't condemn the people to Hell. He wants us all to be with Him. But if they don't want to be, he's not going to force them.

So kids who were born, and taught to believe in what would be false gods to you deserve to be condemned in hell forever then. Well, just going by your "logic."

Then you say all things good is done by God. Well that's simply wrong. You're barney-like themed world isn't like that. You don't understand that within free will of others, good and bad things happen. Else why would God (who you claim isn't part of freewill) do good things or let bad things happen? Then you believe in miracles, but isn't that an intrusion to free will of nature? Or are you just a confused catholic shlaugh who really was stripped by his freewill because of some trauma that happened in his own lifetime and now believes the world is out to get him?

[General Septem]

So kids who were born, and taught to believe in what would be false gods to you deserve to be condemned in hell forever then. Well, just going by your "logic."

Not necessarily. If one does good to the best of their ability, they can receive salvation. God does not require the impossible. If it is unreasonable to expect someone to have been a Christian, then they can still receive salvation.

[something]

Not necessarily. If one does good to the best of their ability, they can receive salvation. God does not require the impossible. If it is unreasonable to expect someone to have been a Christian, then they can still receive salvation.

So if you're a budhist, but a good person, so can you get to haven? Doesn't one of the commandments say "Thou shall not have any other gods but me "?

[General Septem]

So if you're a budhist, but a good person, so can you get to haven? Doesn't one of the commandments say "Thou shall not have any other gods but me "?

Yes, but God does not require the impossible or unreasonable. If you have a good heart, it is possible to follow God without even realizing it. All I'm saying is that you can't judge anyone for any reason. I mean, for all I know you could end up in Heaven. In the end, nobody knows but you and God. And it's none of my business anyway. All I can say is what's right and what's wrong.

[yea_thats_right1]

what you believe to be right and whatyou believe to be wrong..... i beleve its wrong to put mayo on eggs.... my husband believes its right.... :D

[ICU]

what you believe to be right and whatyou believe to be wrong..... i beleve its wrong to put mayo on eggs.... my husband believes its right.... :D

hahahaha, seeing is believing... you're just counting calories, aren't ya. :)

[Ape-Shit]

In my case, it's wrong to eat eggs. (too much cholesterol). However, if I did eat eggs, it would deffinately be without mayo.:p

[Nobody]

what you believe to be right and whatyou believe to be wrong..... i beleve its wrong to put mayo on eggs.... my husband believes its right.... :D.... I would stop for breakfast, and after my order, i waited for the waiterss to ask "how do you want your eggs"? I would tell her scrambled, and DON"T Break the yolk, or barbicued. But that always raised an eye brow or struck up some type of conversation for the sake of a little dry humor. But MAYO on eggs, and actually want it. Thats nasty.