Teacher Pay

[Josh]

Teachers bitch about their yearly income when they don't even work all year! Such BULLSHIT! I spend more time in the classroom than a teacher does (teachers work 3 periods rather than 4 in 4x4 schools because they have a planning period), and if you do the math and calculate how many hours a week they spend in the classroom, teaching is technically a HALF-TIME JOB!!! Also, for reasons noone can explain, unlike every other job in america, teachers get away with not calculating benefits when they bitch about their income (and, believe me, gov't. jobs include a LOT of benefits).

[kaia]

Ok... I have to comment on this one. Teachers get paid SHIT for the work they do. They are raising the next generation of kids in America. Now I would like to see you handle, a classroom full of gang bangers, a classroom where you can get the shit kicked out of you and have charges pressed upon you and not the kid. Remember there are at least 30 plus kids in a room or give or take 10 kids per room. Daycare providers make at least 200.00 a week off of one kid. THAT IS BULLSHIT.

Here are some facts from www.aft.org. Connecticut had the highest average teacher salary at $56,516, while South Dakota reported the lowest at $33,236. Alaska led the nation with the highest average beginning teacher salary for 2003-04, at $40,027. Wisconsin had the nation’s lowest average beginning teacher salary, at $23,952.

I'd be bitching too in some of those areas and top of it, look at the other factors that come into play. How long have they been a teacher in order to reach this amount of money?

Do you know that half of a teachers paycheck is to Health Insurance and I know that some of the teachers in America have to pay at least 1000.00 a month in health insurance benefits. THATS WHAT I CALL BULLSHIT. Did you know that the majority of the teachers loose ALL benefits at the end of the school year??? THAT IS BULLSHIT. AND on top of it, the stingy bastards at the top of the education levels are earning a cool 100,000.00 or more year while they push papers all day long. THAT IS BULLSHIT. Teachers have to pay out of their OWN pockets for school supplies because the government is too damn stingy to supply adequate funding for their schools. THAT IS WHAT I CALL BULLSHIT.

[Josh]

They get paid shit it's not a dificult job (welcome to free-trade capitolism). If teaching was that bad of a job people wouldn't do it, the demand would be high, the pay would increase, and THEN we'd have teachers. People teach because they go to school and get a degree in some shit that there is no demand for, so they go and teach because that's the only thing they're qualified to do. We need teachers, yes. But, it's not a dificult job! I've taught students before. Any teacher could very easily just lecture all day and if the student doesn't get it they say "o well then you're not gonna pass the class". Yes, I do have to deal with classrooms full of people who want to kick someone's face in just to prove they're tough enough. And I did beat the shit out of a teacher and I got a felony on my record, not he. The goverment doesn't pay adequate funding? Shit, Japans spend half as much money on educatian as the US does. Same with Germany and India. Have you seen the European average against the American average? We're talking about schools with teachers that have to work for their job and have to work to get it. They're the ones who get paid well.

[asshole95]

You fuckers suck I didn't learn shit. U asshole let me sleep all year well i'm up now and all i got to say is u asshole deserve to make 2000 a year fuck them.

[Josh]

It's the teacher's job to teach, not make you learn.

[I am Normal! Hahahaha!]

This is bullshit! Teacher take a lot of crap off students! My school has different people from different backgrounds! I have 2500 teenagers go to my school while they are all from different cities. How does anyone have the right to say they get paid to much? I think they are undered paid! I have had many teachers get jumped bucked on and even cut by one of my fellow students! That is not right! TEACHERS ARE UNDER PAID!!!!!!

[Josh]

we live in capitolistic america, not slave labor china. If they were so underpaid then noone would take the job. but the people who wind up as teachers do so because they realize their degrees in english don't qualify them for anything else.

[badger69]

teachers have to put up with little arseholes all day being fukwits wits and they don't work 9-3 a lot of them get to school at like 6 in the morning and leave at 7 and about all this holdiay what about all the assignments and shit they have to mark in their own time or otherwise people will start winging josh if you think it's so easy being a FUKING TEACHER and then see how fun it is. in my school everyone says they wouldn't teach there is their life depended on it

[I am Normal! Hahahaha!]

I still beleive teachers are still under paided to have to deal with our generations now and day!:(

[Josh]

I want to ask you a legitimate question . . . Are you fucking retarded? You make it sound like teachers are victimes. THIS IS AMERICA. If teachers wanted to do something other than teach, they should have worked harder to get a better job. What the fuck do you think you're gonna do with a masters in philosophy? Don't be fuckign stupid. If teaching was that bad, there wouldn't be any teachers. The demand would increase, and so would pay. But, there are teachers because the people who are teaching don't qualify for anything better and IT'S NOT THAT BAD OF A JOB! If it was, no one would take it!

[dreamwvr]

It certainly seems like some teachers got through to you, Josh. At least you can spell! Not everyone is a capitalist. Some people work because they enjoy what they do. You won't be a teacher very long if you are in it for the money. There is a lot more to teaching than getting up in front of kids and talking. Plus, most teachers can't get a job with just an English degree or Philosophy degree. They need a teaching certificate, they have to go to a certain number of hours of class each year. Maybe in some private schools, the teachers don't need a certificate but in the public schools they do. Teachers deserve more money. They also deserve the recognition for teaching kids who are willing to learn. And even being able to teach some who aren't willing to learn. The rest who sleep through school and don't learn anything have no one to blame but themselves. That was their choice to sleep.

[Josh]

Not everyone is a capitalist. America, IS however, a capitalist country. My point is that teachers are teachers BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BE! weather it's for pay, for fun, or becase they have nothing better to do. they have had the same oportunity as everyone else in this country and decided they'd teach. becuase we are a capitalist country, that is the case. If it was such a bad job, they wouldn't CHOOSE to do it. And if they choose to do it in spite of bad pay and such things then that is still their CHOICE and they have no right to bitch. If it was such a bad job, the conditions would naturally improve because of demand. but, there are still teachers willing to work, still willing to recieve the same pay, and all becuase they choose to. They want higher pay, yes (who doesn't). but if they needed it they wouldn't be working anymore and they would be given what they need because of demand. It's just difficult to form such a teacher strike because THEIR JOB IS OK.

[silvery moon]

In my country teachers are underpaid too, and they're bitching about it as well.. But it's not just bitching they're doing, they're actually quitting their jobs.. That's why schools find it so hard to find any decent teachers these days... And THAT's the problem! It's not just about them complaining, it's about them actually quitting their jobs... Only the idiots remain; the crappy teachers.. That's why we aint learning nothing but Bullshit these days...

[Amanda]

Weather or not teachers are paid well for their services or underpaid does not even touch the base of what you are saying Josh. You plainly hate teachers who complain that they don't get paid enough. These teachers that complain they do not get paid enough for the enviornment they are in need to switch schools. I agree that teachers should not be threatened by students, but that doesn't change the fact that they are, these students who do not respect techers need to be kicked out so that the teachers who are GOOD teachers can actually teach other kids what's up. So, bottom line............teachers are paid just fine for their services, it's the students who need to be delt with and learn that they are the ones who are full of BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[I am Normal! Hahahaha!]

Teachers have a lot to deal with now and days generation. How is a teacher suppose to deal with 32 or more students at one time? Can you do it? I doubt it! At my school we have a lot of dangerous conflicts going on and tension betweent the students and also some between the teachers! How are teachers suppose to prevent that? I don't even know how they try to do that every week. I beleive teachers are underpaid. The call for teacher are high in GA because the GOOD teachers leave. The students are driving away the good teachers so that means the HORRIBLE teachers to teach our next president, accountist, doctors, or even department of defense. THESE TEACHERS ARE UNDERPAID!

[Josh]

Teachers have a lot to deal with now and days generation. How is a teacher suppose to deal with 32 or more students at one time? Can you do it? I doubt it! . . .

Can I do it? I've done it and worse. Teachers choose to do it and they have no right to bitch that they are doing what they choose to do. I don't know if you are refusing to read what I write or if you're just fucking retarded. I've explained several times now that a teacher is a teacher out of choice. If they don't like it they will leave. As they leave, demand increases and so does pay. Everyone knows this (and if they don't they shouldn't be teaching our children anyway) and yet teachers do not take action. Instead, they claim to hate a job that they CHOOSE TO TAKE!

[Hayley719]

im not against learing, im just against the unequal rights the whites are given

[I am Normal! Hahahaha!]

:confused:
im not against learing, im just against the unequal rights the whites are given
Who is this directed to?

[greyfalc]

First, for those of you who haven't, learn grammar (too not to, etc.). Second, I have studied to be a teacher in Illinois. Why? I received a great education, and, seeing what education is like in inner city schools, I wanted to give something back. No one can teach publicly without a teaching certificate. Even private schools demand this. Private schools more often require a specialized degree for the grades you are teaching. Teaching isn't easy. I love it, and it's not easy. Just think of the kind of crap you and your fellow students dealt to your teachers. Third, just because you choose to do a job doesn't mean you are paid well. For example, I am now in the military, maintaining the world's only man-made satellite catalog. I am severely underpaid for the job I do. In the civilian world I would make 70,000 starting, but I choose to remain in the military because of the intrinsic benefits it gives me. The same is true for many teachers. They work for the soul, not the money. Take statistics and realize that money is not the root of all motivation, and that you shouldn’t make “supply and demand” assumptions on career choices. “A” plus “B” only equals “C” in laboratory conditions. In the real world there are many other factors to consider.

[drunkenwizard]

IM not A teacher and I dont plan on being one
so I dont care one way or a nuther

(just thought you should no)

[I am Normal! Hahahaha!]

[QUOTE=greyfalc]First, for those of you who haven't, learn grammar (too not to, etc.).......QUOTE]
First thing that is directed to me! It is to not too. Please look things up before you tell someone they are wrong. I'll give you the defition to it.
TO-In a direction toward so as to reach: went to the city.
TOO-In addition; also: He's coming along too.
Check your information before you post it. I know my grammer.:mad:

[this_is_bullshit]

Can I do it? I've done it and worse. Teachers choose to do it and they have no right to bitch that they are doing what they choose to do. I don't know if you are refusing to read what I write or if you're just fucking retarded. I've explained several times now that a teacher is a teacher out of choice. If they don't like it they will leave. As they leave, demand increases and so does pay. Everyone knows this (and if they don't they shouldn't be teaching our children anyway) and yet teachers do not take action. Instead, they claim to hate a job that they CHOOSE TO TAKE!


No, they DO have a right to bitch, they choose to do it, obviously it isn't all about the money, alot of teacher's do it because they want to help out, & I say, if I have to go into a room of KIDS where there is even the smallest possibility of being shot, hit, stabbed or put in any other danger, when I am supposed to be in a SAFE environment, teaching kids, so they can grow up & be SUCCESSFUL members of society, yea I would bitch too.

Josh, you're a FUCKTARD.

Here is the graphical version of my sig:
http://home.mchsi.com/~jaythedogg/Budder.gif (www.worldofwarcraft.com)
Push for graphical sigs!

[this_is_bullshit]

First, for those of you who haven't, learn grammar (too not to, etc.).......
First thing that is directed to me! It is to not too. Please look things up before you tell someone they are wrong. I'll give you the defition to it.
TO-In a direction toward so as to reach: went to the city.
TOO-In addition; also: He's coming along too.
Check your information before you post it. I know my grammer.:mad:


BTW: Greyfalc, flaming on grammar, is tardshit.

(P.S. Normal, fixed yer quote)

[I am Normal! Hahahaha!]

I'm not sure how to fix my quote. I don't think it really matters to me.:rolleyes: Thanks for telling me though.

[gizmoduck]

Yo Josh, first of all...can u do half of what teachers do? can you even stand the shit the kids dish out? I didn't think so. So when you say that teachers bitch about how much they get paid...think again. they teach the kids of the future...What the hell do u do thats more important than that? Sorry we already have one dumbass that is running the country now...lets not repeat that one...so when you go to bitch about teachers bitchin...look at the shit u do and the shit they do...Then you realize they deserve the TWO month break...and more money...so stop your bitchin

[Jasmine8057]

That was the stupidest statement I've ever heard. Teaching is far from a part-time job, it involves hours and hours of planning, grading, talking to parents, staying after. (which you do not get paid for)
:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Jasmine8057]

Teacher pay has increased 10% in the last 5 years asshole so know your shit before you start talking and- teachers don't complain they hate their job you are making statements that are so RETARDED, i dont't know how you passed 8th grade.
Teaching IS a choice, and 90% of people who go into it want to to good for others, and give back. (something you'd know nothing about)
So you STOP BITCHIN and be thankful someone was there to teach you! (even thought all you learned was to be an ASS)

[greyfalc]

Normal, in quoting me, you seemed to miss that my comment was directed to the plural "those of you" not "Hey, Normal . . ." I just found it a little ironic that there was a discussion on education in which an education in the english language seemed to be lacking. The comment wasn't directed at you. Try not making assumptions before you post them.

[I am Normal! Hahahaha!]

Normal, in quoting me, you seemed to miss that my comment was directed to the plural "those of you" not "Hey, Normal . . ." I just found it a little ironic that there was a discussion on education in which an education in the english language seemed to be lacking. The comment wasn't directed at you. Try not making assumptions before you post them.
If the comment was not made toward me, then why did it say too not to ect.? I was the only one using to at the time so that was an accurate assumption. Your just mad because I proved you wrong. So.... have a nice day, and have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Good-Bye.:rolleyes:

[foxfire89]

You think teaching a bunch a kids all day long is an easy job. You think you spend more time at school than the teacher. I think your wrong. They are there before you get there and long after you leave. They spend time at home thinking about there plans on how to teach the children and young adults of tomarrow. Without teachers we would have an even larger number of dumb asses running there mouths when it's very clear they don't have a fucking clue about what's going on in the world. As far as how much teachers make and what they have to deal with daily, and it been in papers and documented in magazines that 85 percent the the teachers in the United States could get on wel-fare. They make so little they government will give them food stamps and you say they make to much. Come on Brother "A mind is a terrible thing to waste".

[normlman]

...hello, i'm an idiot. i had some really kickass teachers in school, and some really lame ones as well. i learned 'some' in school, but most of what i know in life, i've taught myself. i think if a kid really wants to learn, then good on him/ or her...but if the kid does'nt? ..then so what he'll probably graduate and continue the viscous cycle of losers leading losers, keeping our Country strong. hell, he might even become our president one day. or voice his of opinions of teachers simply being over paid on the internet. One of my buddies from the Marine Corp that's getting 'Honorably Discharged' in Feb. always told me he wants to 'get out' and go to school to teach kids 'History' ...i laughed at his wanting to become a teacher because that's really not my bag. but if teachers made six figures, that'd be cool with me, because i'm sure the requirements/standards for becoming a teacher would be raised ...schools would change. it aint like our greedy ass, power hungry govt could'nt find a way to fund it. and i would happily sit at home and drink my beers after work, glad because my school days are 10 years past. lol.

[edumucationer]

Josh...and all you out there who believe teachers make enough...I will agree to disagree with you.

First, you all have had your own experiences in class and around teachers which is why you have posted your statements (feelings) towards teacher's pay, and teacher's in general, so I am not going to argue with any of you. I do want to state my opinion on the matter without being targeted...and if I am...then we don't understand each other and I will accept that.

I am a teacher of science (6th grade) in public school. I do feel I earn my pay. I spend on average 10 hours each day ensuring I am doing my job so that the 120 students entrusted to me receive an education in science concepts. It takes a lot of work to obtain the materials necessary to do lab work, not to mention set up and clean up time. It takes time grading papers (in the evening instead of going out), and time spent writing lesson plans and doing research for the activities. I attend Individual Education Plan (IEP) meetings for resource or special needs students and am required to keep close monitor of their behavior and academics for the committee. This year I have 15 mainstreamed into my class. Two of whom should not be in a regular class; however, I do not have much say on this matter, yet I am required to ensure they receive a proper education even though they operate at a 2nd grade level. For the most part, due to my strict nature, I am able to handle behavior issues, which allow for most of my students to learn. I send progress reports home every week or email (those who have computers). Unfortunately, at least at this school, education takes a backseat to sports. Students aren't held accountable...nor or their parents. PTO meetings are merely a reason to get together for food and fun. Pretty much it's the same 40 parents who attend out of a school of 600. I get, if I'm lucky, 30 parents to attend Parent-Teacher conferences. Homework is a foreign word. I am required to have my students readied for the SAT10, yet receive no support from admin or parents. I spent my lunch hour tutoring students. I spend my morning before school begins assisting students in the Academic Challenge Bowl, again with no support from admin. I spent evenings grading papers or contacting parents. My school spends more $ and time on sports then it does on academics. I also have to get recertified every three years (out of my pocket). Even with all the problems that exist, I continue to do what I do, not for the $, but to reach one child, any child, so that he/she may grow up to obtain a career and not end up at some food joint. I am a teacher, a counselor, a mother, a nurse, and a friend to all of my students. I do it because I care. Do I wish I were paid more? After 12 years of teaching (after taxes) I earn $31,200.00. For what I do, yes, I do feel I should earn a little more. Unfortunately, those in power feel we teachers here in Guam make enough.

I did choose this profession, not because I couldn't do anything else. I was in the military (in communications) and was pursuing that interest in college when I heard that the island was in need of teachers. I subbed for a year and realized that it was something I had a passion for. Yes, I chose to do this, but in the same light, it chose me. So, not all people go into teaching because they can't do anything else. I would have done well in the communications field, especially since it was just opening up to the new technologies we have now.

I have received letters and calls from former students thanking me for being their teacher. I wouldn't trade the feeling I get when they contact me for anything in the world. Teaching is a thankless job most of the time, but those few times when you do receive the gratitude from a child you spent time with...one who has learned something new...is what teaching is all about.

So to all of you who trash teachers....go ahead...we've all had our share of bad ones. But I ask that you remember the good ones, and think about them when someone asks you if teachers deserve better pay.

Mark

P.S. One thing I forgot to mention... I spend (as many teachers do) my own $ on my students because this government is bankrupt (and corrupt).

[foxhunt]

Josh, you are a RETARD! Isn't it possible that teachers teach because it gives them pleasure to help someone become all that they can be? Teaching is a very rewarding job in the sence that you get to make a difference in a person's life. What the hell do you do?!
In my life the people I respect most are my teachers and always have been. They are the one's who have helped me get this far and have made me want to make a difference. Everyone would be SHIT without teachers, even if they wanted to be good!
But yes, the paying is shit! If I had to deal with all the cunts I have in my class today, I'd probably end up going mad and killing them all! There's about 80% of arseholes in our schools!

[mutt]

I doubt very much that their is a classroom full of gangbangers in alaska....And asshole95, you clearly learned nothing in school, but thanks for reinforcing the point.

[freakazoid]

One way to express the quality of our society is the ratios of money we pay teachers to, well, let's use basketball players. On one hand we have virtually unknown dedicated people who teach our children the skills they will need to become decent contributing members of society by giving them the knowledge and experience to achieve good and worthy goals and on the other hand we have "basketball" players who make the headlines for raping a girl friend, dunking a basketball in a hoop over and over again, caught and busted for snorting coke, selling way overpriced tennis shoes to urban groupies, and who demand to be treated like fucking kings, if not gods for running around a "basketball court" acting like "athletes." Not sure what the ratio of payment to both would in fact be, but I would estimate about a thousand to one on average.

In this ratio we can see what our society really values at the end of the day. Sad.

[beelzebub]

Amazing but finally he and I agree on this issue! Good going!

[freakazoid]

Amazing but finally she and I agree on this issue! Good going girl!

Girl? Ahhhh, hang on, looking down there to check the pluming.......nope, just as I thought...I'm a male. :D

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/8837/freakazoid32au3vl.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[I am Normal! Hahahaha!]

That is really a hilarious remark.

[freakazoid]

That is really a hilarious remark.
:D He had me worried there for a sec! LMAO!! :p

[beelzebub]

Teachers get a bad rap for being underpaid:

I make 53K per anum if I don’t work summer school (7.5K). This is my 7th year as an educator. Now remember I "work" 192 day per year. Work is in quotes not because I don’t consider it so but because it means meetings (fun or boring), teacher work days (I don’t have to be there) and lastly because a typical work day is from like 9 to 5 where as I work from 8:30 till 3:15 (with a planning period (1.5 hours) and a lunch break (45 min). BTW that’s Monday through Friday ONLY.
I get a week off for the winter break and spring break. I get an excellent retirement FULLY paid by the system.

NOW - the difference. I have a masters in my subject and a certification on top. First year Teachers with bachelors suffer I agree.

But if I were to work like the other working people I should make 63.6K which isn’t bad. And my partner makes double that so I am sitting pretty. :p

[freakazoid]

Teachers get a bad rap for being underpaid:

I make 53K per anum if I don’t work summer school (7.5K). This is my 7th year as an educator. Now remember I "work" 192 day per year. Work is in quotes not because I don’t consider it so but because it means meetings (fun or boring), teacher work days (I don’t have to be there) and lastly because a typical work day is from like 9 to 5 where as I work from 8:30 till 3:15 (with a planning period (1.5 hours) and a lunch break (45 min). BTW that’s Monday through Friday ONLY.
I get a week off for the winter break and spring break. I get an excellent retirement FULLY paid by the system.

NOW - the difference. I have a masters in my subject and a certification on top. First year Teachers with bachelors suffer I agree.

But if I were to work like the other working people I should make 63.6K which isn’t bad. And my partner makes double that so I am sitting pretty. :p

LOL, ever thought about playing basketball? We'll name a over priced tennis shoe after you. :D

[sad_little_emo_lad]

You can't even spell.:mad: Life sucks. :( WHY DID YOU LEAVE ME MOLLY? :( :(

[qbitty]

You can't even spell.:mad: Life sucks. :( WHY DID YOU LEAVE ME MOLLY? :( :(

YES MOLLY, WHY OH WHY? ANYWAY, SHOULD BE ABOUT DOE, but no less then $5,ooo a month if working the PROJEKTS, YO!

WHAT THE FUK ELSE HAVE YOU GUYS BEEN TALKIN' ABOUT? I JUST WOKE UP AS WELL!

[qbitty]

LOL, ever thought about playing basketball? We'll name a over priced tennis shoe after you. :D

FUCK YOU LEBOWSKI, YOU CAN'T WRITE WORTH A SHIT, I"VE BEEN TRYING TO FINISH YOUR BOOK, IT SUCKS ROYAL ASS! I MEAN SO WHAT IF YOU"RE LIKE 1/8th of AN INCH AWAY FROM SUCKING YOUR OWN DICK? DOES THAT MEAN YOU CAN"T SQUIRT THE REST OF THE DISTANCE? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOZZZZZZAAAAAHHHHH!!!!

[bamaj]

Josh, I am wondering what you do for a living and how old are you? You seem to have all of the answers. At what age have you attained this great wealth of knowledge?

[beelzebub]

Josh, I am wondering what you do for a living and how old are you? You seem to have all of the answers. At what age have you attained this great wealth of knowledge?


??? who is Josh ???

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

First off, I must agree that in relation to the topic, just about everyone in here should be blindfolded, taken out back and shot from under the chin for such poor use of grammar and spelling. That being said, teachers are getting paid what they deserve. Refer to the saying: "Those who can't do teach." Not that this is true in its entirety, but teaching is an easy job. When it comes down to it, you have to help a group of people, who on the whole are physically at their learning peak, to comprehend things that are usually obvious to you. Most people have the ability to be a teacher, in comparison to being a professional athlete, which is why the pay is so different.

Teachers have complaints about the requirements of their job in comparison to the pay, but they forget to compare the complaints to the benfits. We need to stop thinking two dimensionally. The reason that people choose to teach is not simply because of the pay, the rewards are greater and far more varied than that. If teachers don't believe this, then why are they teaching? I recently changed my direction in college from a major that is guaranteed to pay at least $45k starting salary to a focus on teaching. Why? Because I realized that I enjoy helping people to learn, its rewarding without the pay.

In the plain and simple, everyone wants more money. If teachers wanted more money, they will find a way to get it. On the other hand, if the public truly wants better teachers they will pay better and set the standards higher.

[beelzebub]

That being said, teachers are getting paid what they deserve. Refer to the saying: "Those who can't do teach." Not that this is true in its entirety, but teaching is an easy job.

You don’t have the brains given to a chicken. You have no idea what you are talking about. You think that the rate of pay is determined by the ease of a job? Ignorance! There are plenty of examples of easier jobs than teaching where people are paid more and there are jobs that are more difficult where people are paid less.

The phrase "Those cant do teach" is the most ignorant thing I have ever heard. It was probably created by bitter little people. You would have to say that would say teaching does not involve doing anything? You have no idea what we do.


When it comes down to it, you have to help a group of people, who on the whole are physically at their learning peak, to comprehend things that are usually obvious to you. Most people have the ability to be a teacher, in comparison to being a professional athlete, which is why the pay is so different.

I know many people that have left the teaching profession because they could not do it.
You are saying athletes earn their pay? They make MORE than the president of the United States. They make more than Albert Einstein EVER made in his lifetime. They make more than Doctors Lawyers etc and you are telling me that they are worth that? Just for entertaining us? This has to be the stupidest thing anyone would believe.


Teachers have complaints about the requirements of their job in comparison to the pay, but they forget to compare the complaints to the benfits. We need to stop thinking two dimensionally. The reason that people choose to teach is not simply because of the pay, the rewards are greater and far more varied than that. If teachers don't believe this, then why are they teaching? I recently changed my direction in college from a major that is guaranteed to pay at least $45k starting salary to a focus on teaching. Why? Because I realized that I enjoy helping people to learn, its rewarding without the pay.

Ohhh wow 45K big fucking deal. Teachers in the USA can top out at 120K (New Jersey) in my school (N Virginia) teachers top out at 90K. (Topping out is when you are 15-20 years into the business.)

BTW – benefits is spelled this way not the way you spelled it. So…. Stop ragging on people about their spelling on this website! It’s supposed to be for fun.


In the plain and simple, everyone wants more money. If teachers wanted more money, they will find a way to get it. On the other hand, if the public truly wants better teachers they will pay better and set the standards higher.

I don’t get it. At first I think you are dogging teacher now I think you are plighting their case? Which is it?

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

You don’t have the brains given to a chicken. You have no idea what you are talking about. You think that the rate of pay is determined by the ease of a job? Ignorance! There are plenty of examples of easier jobs than teaching where people are paid more and there are jobs that are more difficult where people are paid less.

The phrase "Those cant do teach" is the most ignorant thing I have ever heard. It was probably created by bitter little people. You would have to say that would say teaching does not involve doing anything? You have no idea what we do.



I know many people that have left the teaching profession because they could not do it.
You are saying athletes earn their pay? They make MORE than the president of the United States. They make more than Albert Einstein EVER made in his lifetime. They make more than Doctors Lawyers etc and you are telling me that they are worth that? Just for entertaining us? This has to be the stupidest thing anyone would believe.



Ohhh wow 45K big fucking deal. Teachers in the USA can top out at 120K (New Jersey) in my school (N Virginia) teachers top out at 90K. (Topping out is when you are 15-20 years into the business.)

BTW – benefits is spelled this way not the way you spelled it. So…. Stop ragging on people about their spelling on this website! It’s supposed to be for fun.



I don’t get it. At first I think you are dogging teacher now I think you are plighting their case? Which is it?

Wow, you’re all over the place. Why don't we start from the beginning? I have a pretty good idea of what I'm talking about, coming from a family comprised primarily of teachers. My Grandfather, Aunt, Uncle, Mother, Sister and 3 Cousins all fall in that category. I talk to all of them frequently and I know just what they go through.

Your next complaint was that I think the rate of pay is ONLY about the ease of the job? No, I thought I made it clear that there are many more than just two dimensions to this, or for that matter any argument, I'm just relating to a well known quote (generally used humorously) while pointing out that it is relatively easy.

As far as these athletes go, why would they be paid so much if they're not worth it? Entertainment is a huge industry in the USA. The general population decides that these athletes are worth their pay, along with movie stars and singers for some other examples. People go to sporting events, concerts and movies; they watch their television for all these also. I can't believe that you've never paid for any of this yourself. So while you have one teacher being paid each year to teach 30-some students, (yes there are cases when there are plenty more and plenty less, I'm aiming at the median value here,) each athlete/movie star/singer is entertaining millions every year. How about this president of yours? He is definitely NOT doing the job for the pay. Every president there has ever been has had many pressing issues other than money that made them want the position. This is once again very two dimensional. How about Einstein and these lawyers, doctors and so forth? They are needed very much, but still don't appease nearly as many on so grand a scale (per person) as the professions that you complain get overpaid. Don't try to smash the Einstein thing at me either. I know that his theories and works are being used by everyone in the world one way or another, but that was not yet the case when he was around.

You later go on to tell that you know teachers that are getting as much as 120k in relation to the 45k STARTING salary that I set aside to pursue a teaching career? How does this help, or even relate to your argument? I thought you were saying teachers don't get paid enough? Which side are you on?

My little mistake with "benefits" was simply a typo. Something to be expected on any computer when one is typing so much. Everyone makes mistakes here and there; I'm sure that you can find mistakes in my posting here if you look hard enough. Not what I was pointing out about at all. The spelling and grammar issues that annoy me in this thread are using words like "their" when "they're" is required, or "weather" when you mean "whether." Obviously using the wrong words, indicating that many of these people arguing the issues of teacher pay most likely don't have the knowledge to make a sound conclusion.

Finally, I wasn't trying to DOG or PLIGHT anyone. I am simply pointing out the issues without trying to make it a personal vendetta. I'm pointing out that if we need better teachers we'll set higher standards and higher salaries. If the teachers need more money they'll find a way to make it. Things are as they should be, because if they weren't they would be changing. Someone might think otherwise, but he is only one voice among millions. Someone may say that the majority of these millions are ignorant about the issues, but that is something that can't be changed and has to be dealt with regardless of what would be preferred.

Also, in the future please don't ask me to think outside the box until you are ready to do the same, let's find equal grounds.

[beelzebub]

I'm just relating to a well known quote (generally used humorously) while pointing out that it is relatively easy.

Teachers that don't teach well will find it easy. I suppose this trait must run in the family?


As far as these athletes go, why would they be paid so much if they're not worth it?

Pay = Worth. This is a concept for people who don’t think.

Apply this to Mother Theresa - ZERO PAY yet,... she unified and entire movement against poverty and other VERY important issues. What would her contributions be worth in dollars?

Apply this to Martin Luther King - MINIMAL PAY yet,... changed the entire scope of American philosophy and government protocol.

Watson & Crick - PAID WELL (not near athlete) yet,... changed the way the entire world operates.

Pay is not related TO WORTH!


How does this help, or even relate to your argument? I thought you were saying teachers don't get paid enough? Which side are you on?

You were stating that teaches do not make a lot of money. This is not true.

I am a teacher. I am on the side of teachers.


My little mistake with "benefits" was simply a typo. Something to be expected on any computer when one is typing so much. Everyone makes mistakes here and there;

No shit Sherlock. Stop critiquing others on their typing skills and how they write. Concentrate on what they write.


Also, in the future please don't ask me to think outside the box until you are ready to do the same, let's find equal grounds.

I didn't ask you to think outside of anything. It’s my motto. I am willing to change and see a new perspective on issues. Are you able to do so?

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Teachers that don't teach well will find it easy. I suppose this trait must run in the family?

As a matter of fact, quite the opposite. The teachers in my family are well respected by a majority of their students and fellow staff. Any teacher who cares, (mind that most people generally are the caring type,) will change and attempt to improve if they are not performing well.



Pay = Worth. This is a concept for people who don’t think.

Apply this to Mother Theresa - ZERO PAY yet,... she unified and entire movement against poverty and other VERY important issues. What would her contributions be worth in dollars?

Apply this to Martin Luther King - MINIMAL PAY yet,... changed the entire scope of American philosophy and government protocol.

Pay is not related TO WORTH!

You appear to be looking at the argument from the wrong direction. The argument is that if a person is being paid well, then he's done something to deserve it. Whereas these examples indicate that you feel if a person is doing something which deserves good pay, they should get it. The two are not the same. More simply, if A is always equal to B, B does not always have to be equal to A. Simply because you think that achievements of the mind are greater than achievements made by athletes does not make it the truth. The public would prefer and pay much more to be entertained than they would prefer to see these accomplishments of the mind on a daily basis. That's just something that you'll have to deal with.

These great people that you talk about don't do it for the money, their pay is much greater than that, their pay is the self worth that they receive from their accomplishments. If they wanted something else, they would have gone after that instead.



You were stating that teaches do not make a lot of money. This is not true.

On the contrary. This is true for the majority of cases, and it is exactly what this entire thread has been about.




No shit Sherlock. Stop critiquing others on their typing skills and how they write. Concentrate on what they write.


I wasn't criticizing anyone on their typing skills. I was criticizing people for not knowing which is the right word to use, or the proper way to spell such common words on such a frequent basis. I think that you need to lay off on the criticizm more than anyone else on this site.



I didn't ask you to think outside of anything. It’s my motto. I am willing to change and see a new perspective on issues. Are you able to do so?

I must disagree with this. You appear not to even consider the validity of anyone else's oppinion enough to tell them why you think that it is wrong. You simply point out very cruely and condescendingly that you KNOW it is wrong. I am trying to understand your points, but you don't appear to be presenting any arguments with solid reasoning. I'm simply asking you to adhere to your own motto. The only area you've stepped outside of in this website is the closet.

I would love to further debate the issues here without furthering the useless slander and insults.

[beelzebub]

As a matter of fact, quite the opposite. The teachers in my family are well respected by a majority of their students and fellow staff. Any teacher who cares, (mind that most people generally are the caring type,) will change and attempt to improve if they are not performing well.

Student and Staff respect does not translate into good teacher in my definition. Good teachers:
Are committed to students and their learning.
Know the subjects they teach and how to teach those subjects to students.
Are responsible for managing and monitoring student learning.
Think systematically about their practice and learn from experience.
Are members of learning communities.

I know plenty of teachers that are well respected and use worksheets like inquiry labs.


You appear to be looking at the argument from the wrong direction. The argument is that if a person is being paid well, then he's done something to deserve it.

First of all I was testing this assumption. Take what you said backwards to see if it is true:
"If a person does something deserving then they will be well paid"

This does not fit to your assumption of value due to the examples that I gave.

As one example of many: I DO NOT BELIEVE that most athletes deserve the pay they get. What benefit to society do they provide that warrants that form of deserving.


Whereas these examples indicate that you feel if a person is doing something which deserves good pay, they should get it.

This is where I see you are not reading what I said. I said that I do not agree that people who are well paid deserve it.
For example: Enron and filthy rich CEOs or Paris Hilton and Filty Rich young woman
I believe that there is not much relation between these people and VALUE. Enron CEOs used the ignorance of America to play on value. They used what you believe to make themselves RICH without doing anything.
Paris Hilton is a slut whore that is living off of the riches of her parents. She has no real value



On the contrary. This is true for the majority of cases, and it is exactly what this entire thread has been about.
The thread title is TEACHER PAY. It is not "Teachers aren't paid enough"
This is silly.


I wasn't criticizing anyone on their typing skills. I was criticizing people for not knowing which is the right word to use, or the proper way to spell such common words on such a frequent basis. I think that you need to lay off on the criticizm more than anyone else on this site.

criticizm = criticism

I posted a response to this answer on :
bullshit.com Forums > About Education > i dont understand teachers
It shows that you do not know how to spell. You are hypocritical to the max!

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Student and Staff respect does not translate into good teacher in my definition. Good teachers:
Are committed to students and their learning.
Know the subjects they teach and how to teach those subjects to students.
Are responsible for managing and monitoring student learning.
Think systematically about their practice and learn from experience.
Are members of learning communities.

From my experience, these are the teachers that are well respected, I didn't feel that I needed to use so many words.



First of all I was testing this assumption. Take what you said backwards to see if it is true:
"If a person does something deserving then they will be well paid"

This does not fit to your assumption of value due to the examples that I gave.

If you would have read on, or thought of it lgically at all, the statement does not work equally in both directions. Take a simpler example, if all Cardinals are birds then are all birds cardinals? Absolutely not! I was pointing out that it only works in one direction. I said, as clear as day, that it does not follow that a person will be well paid if they do something deserving.


As one example of many: I DO NOT BELIEVE that most athletes deserve the pay they get. What benefit to society do they provide that warrants that form of deserving.

The benefit is entertainment. Everyone wants entertainment in some form, and as much as possible. Furthermore they'll pay to get it. If this is not a benefit to society, then under what category would you place it?



This is where I see you are not reading what I said. I said that I do not agree that people who are well paid deserve it.


Quite wrong, you have not been reading what I said. I did not say that you thought people who are being paid well deserve it, (that is my position) I said that you feel people who are doing things that deserve good pay (for your case benefiting society) should be given it. Think logically, these are not the same statement. If this is not your position, then why has the issue of athletes been brought up in this thread? I was given the understanding that some people felt teachers deserved to be paid equally or better than professional athletes, because some believe each teacher gives more back to society than each athlete.


For example: Enron and filthy rich CEOs or Paris Hilton and Filty Rich young woman
I believe that there is not much relation between these people and VALUE. Enron CEOs used the ignorance of America to play on value. They used what you believe to make themselves RICH without doing anything.
Paris Hilton is a slut whore that is living off of the riches of her parents. She has no real value

So if you don't believe that they deserve this money, how would you change things? Would you force these people who played their cards well to give all their money to those who whine about the issues the most? We're in a capitalistic country, though not purely capitalistic it still allows those who do the PROPER work to earn and benefit financially the most.



The thread title is TEACHER PAY. It is not "Teachers aren't paid enough"

True, however read the listings. Any listing actually relating to Teacher Pay is debating whether Teacher Pay is ENOUGH! This is what the title infers, whether or not you can comprehend that.


I posted a response to this answer on :
bullshit.com Forums > About Education > i dont understand teachers
It shows that you do not know how to spell. You are hypocritical to the max!

Okay, I've screwed up and overlooked things too, just as often as you have. That's not the point, but whether or not you understand the point just drop this subject. It's getting old, and showing me nothing more than your one dimensional frame of mind.

[beelzebub]

The benefit is entertainment. Everyone wants entertainment in some form, and as much as possible. Furthermore they'll pay to get it. If this is not a benefit to society, then under what category would you place it?

No,.. What I am saying is that they are not paid to the level of their contribution to society. Look at what Watson & Crick's contribution to society and all the ramification COMPARE it with say the Laker's contribution to society and all the ramifications. I would say Watson & Crick were not paid according to their contribution and the Laker's were paid too much.



I said that you feel people who are doing things that deserve good pay (for your case benefiting society) should be given it. .....
Think logically, these are not the same statement. If this is not your position, then why has the issue of athletes been brought up in this thread?. ..

I see what your are saying but I do not agree. I said that there is little relation to person’s worth to society and their pay. This was put in when you first wrote about it.


So if you don't believe that they deserve this money, how would you change things? .

I do believe that teachers are not paid enough in this society. This is because they have lost value and they are government workers.


True, however read the listings. Any listing actually relating to Teacher Pay is debating whether Teacher Pay is ENOUGH! This is what the title infers, whether or not you can comprehend that. .

Once again. The point is that the string is called Teacher Pay. Therefore all statements about pay are acceptable.



Okay, I've screwed up and overlooked things too, just as often as you have. That's not the point, but whether or not you understand the point just drop this subject. It's getting old, and showing me nothing more than your one dimensional frame of mind.

I was hoping that you were able to do this without a snide retort at the end.
You were wrong! So was I! Relax and let’s enjoy debating.
I have a very multidimensional mind. You got on my bad side by making rude comments about peoples writing from the moment you got on the website. Fine and well but if you dish it out you have to take it.
How do you want it served is the next question? Hot & spicy like we have had it OR are you in the mood for mild and cool?

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

You got on my bad side by making rude comments about peoples writing from the moment you got on the website. Fine and well but if you dish it out you have to take it.
How do you want it served is the next question? Hot & spicy like we have had it OR are you in the mood for mild and cool?

Yes, I was very critical, but I was hoping that it also came accross humorously. Keep it hot and spicy, as long it's more than mindless name calling. Make the spice something that makes people laugh rather than something that just leaves a foul stench in the air. And let's try to address the issues straight forward at the same time. (Think that's challenging enough?:D)

[beelzebub]

I will have to admit........... Many of my colleagues are not very smart. I hate to say that but it is true. I am not sure what effect this has on their ability to teach but ... perhaps this is why Teachers are getting such a bad rap.

[vixuxx]

Teachers don't get enough pay! It's so terrible, because they are responsible for the future of the world. They are entrusted with our youngsters. Their jobs are SO important, and they should really be paid much more. And being a teacher is ALOT of work. It's no easy task. Teaching is a very strenuous job, and I hope that in the future, teachers are paid alot more.

And how about the police? Their job is equally as important as teachers, but they are also underpaid! What is going on?!?!?!

[beelzebub]

And how about the police? Their job is equally as important as teachers, but they are also underpaid! What is going on?!?!?!

Thanks for being for the teachers: hohoo! Thanks :-)

Believe it or not Police are paid better than teachers. Furthermore; their overtime can be counted into factoring their retirement whereas our stipend for extracurricular activities and summer school pay is not.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Thanks for being for the teachers: hohoo! Thanks :-)

Believe it or not Police are paid better than teachers. Furthermore; their overtime can be counted into factoring their retirement whereas our stipend for extracurricular activities and summer school pay is not.

Most teachers do that extra stuff moreso because they enjoy it, not to MAX out their benfits. Just find something that you enjoy in the teaching career or find a new job and stop bitching about teachers not getting enough pay when you claim to be getting plenty of pay as a teacher at the same time.

[beelzebub]

Most teachers do that extra stuff moreso because they enjoy it, not to MAX out their benfits.

Well ......... you are right and you are wrong. Most teachers do enjoy doing that extra stuff but most wouldn't do it if they didn't get the stipend. You, being outside the educational community, shouldn't make generalizations about stuff you don’t understand or even have a basis on which to make a statement.


Just find something that you enjoy in the teaching career or find a new job and stop bitching about teachers not getting enough pay when you claim to be getting plenty of pay as a teacher at the same time.

I do get plenty of money here in the DC metropolitan area. I am speaking for the VAST majority of teachers who do not get good pay. For example: I am moving to Dallas this summer and I will suffer an 8K pay cut next year. Furthermore I will bitch about whatever I please you punk ass!

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Well ......... you are right and you are wrong. Most teachers do enjoy doing that extra stuff but most wouldn't do it if they didn't get the stipend. You, being outside the educational community, shouldn't make generalizations about stuff you don’t understand or even have a basis on which to make a statement.

You forget, the majority of my family is teachers, and I have a good idea of how they feel on such a subject. I understand it plenty, and I know that many would do these extra things because they like it and they are needed.




For example: I am moving to Dallas this summer and I will suffer an 8K pay cut next year. Furthermore I will bitch about whatever I please you punk ass!

So why are you moving to Dallas then? There must be an overriding issue that makes it worth the pay cut.

[beelzebub]

You forget, the majority of my family is teachers, and I have a good idea of how they feel on such a subject. I understand it plenty, and I know that many would do these extra things because they like it and they are needed.

Should have said: "My family ARE teachers". This particular error is indicative of someone who is challenged in grammar.
You would really need to be a teacher to understand teaching. You, as offspring, do not fully understand.


So why are you moving to Dallas then? There must be an overriding issue that makes it worth the pay cut.

Properties. I have contracts on 6 houses as of 3/20. After my first year I will buy more. I cannot do this in the DC metropolitan area.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Should have said: "My family ARE teachers". This particular error is indicative of someone who is challenged in grammar.
You would really need to be a teacher to understand teaching. You, as offspring, do not fully understand.

For one thing, I've known well respected teachers who make much more blatant mistakes than using 'is' when 'are' is required, and this really makes no difference in the point at hand, you are just attempting to get under my skin.

Next, stating that I could not understand because I am only offspring is a false conclusion. I don't need to be a teacher to understand teaching, I can understand teaching by understanding teachers. I have good relations with plenty of teachers both inside and outside of my family tree, and my understanding of this group is more than adequate.

You need to start being more open minded and think before you make such arrogant accusations and conclusions, especially in regard to the fact that you claim to be such a good teacher. I've never known a good teacher to be less than understanding and considerate of others.

[housecup]

You think teaching is easy? Okay, let's see you swing this.

Immagine that each 30-student class will have five learning-disabled children, three with ADD, one gifted child, and two who speak limited English. Three are labeled as severe behavior problems. You must complete lesson plans at least 3 days in advance with annotations, and modify, organize, or create materials accordingly.

You will be required to teach students, handle misconduct, implement technology, document attendance, write referrals, correct homework and tests, make bulletin boards, compute grades, complete report cards, document benchmarks, communicate with parents regularly, and arrange parent conferences. You must also supervise recess (or lunch time if teaching in junior high or high school) and monitor the hallways.

In addition, you will complete drills for fire, tornadoes, or shooting attacks. You must attend workshops, faculty meetings, union meetings, and curriculum development meetings, just to name a few. You must also work extra hard with those students who are behind and/or learning disabled, and strive to get them and the two non-English speaking children proficient enough to take the national achievement tests. If you are sick or having a bad day, you must not let it show. Each day, you must incorporate reading, writing, math, science, and social studies into the program (again, if teaching elementary). You must maintain discipline and provide an educationally stimulating environment at all times.

Forget the golf course, you will not be able to afford it. Lunch will be limited to 30 minutes.

However, you will be provided with two 40-minute planning periods per week while your students are at specials. If the copier is operable, you may make copies of necessary materials at this time. If you wish to continually advance your own education, it must be on your own time and pay for this advanced training yourselves. Moonlighting at a second job or marrying someone with money can accomplish this.

Good luck.

I go through this every day as do other teachers.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Okay, so the first year may be a little hectic. After that, all these things that you list have already been done and documented if you're a good teacher. Yes, you will have to modify them as the years pass, but this will be much easier than the initial creation.

Then, the majority of the busy work that you list, (compute grades, take attendance, correct homewor and tests) takes very little time or effort overall when proper tools are used. These fire drills or lunchroom monitorings and the sort are simple jurisdiction tasks. Just command the children to do what they need to, and simply because you're an adult, they'll comply. Those who don't aren't your problem any more because you send them to the principal.

Yes, you list some things that may get on your nerves after a while if they don't go as preferred, but as long as you have patience you should be able to understand and get through them as well. If you don't have patience you shouldn't be a teacher to begin with. Sure all of these things can be trying, but none are difficult, they just require some self discipline.

Oh, and teachers don't get any longer a lunch break than other professions, but it isn't any shorter than average either. They also get a nice 3 month period in the Summer to relax, and prepare for the changes that need to be made next year as well as a week long break in the winter to catch up, and many breaks throughout the year that are madatory in this society which gives them time to take care of anything that has been piling up. Other professions won't see nearly as much leeway.

And if you really like golf so much, or other extravagantly priced entertainment, you can find a way to do it. I know many teachers who get out to doing what they love all the time, even with their busy schedules, and I hardly hear a complaint from any of them about how much work they need to get done at any time. My sister works in an inner metropolitan school where 90% or more of the students are 'minorities', and many of which come from horrible neighborhoods, have learning disabilities and many other things that you list as what makes teaching so horrid. But she doesn't even complain about the trouble that they cause. She expresses joy from learning from these kids as much as she's teaching them, and has FUN figuring out how to teach each one of them as well as she's expected to.

[housecup]

Oh no, I wasn't complaining at all. That was just the job description. Like your sister, I too love my job. I feel quite fulfilled, and if I had a job that would pay me more money, like a business-type profession, I would be very unhappy. Many people do not have the patience it takes to be a teacher.

And I actually hate golf. I was just using it as an example.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Then it must not be that difficult.

[beelzebub]

You think teaching is easy? Okay, let's see you swing this. Immagine that each 30-student class will have five learning-disabled children, three with ADD, one gifted child, and two who speak limited English. Three are labeled as severe behavior problems. You must complete lesson plans at least 3 days in advance with annotations, and modify, organize, or create materials accordingly. You will be required to teach students...........

YOU GO GIRL!!! Damn I love good teachers! Make a difference and represent!

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

YOU GO GIRL!!! Damn I love good teachers! Make a difference and represent!

Yes, because it's the good teachers that find every reason they can to bitch about the job.:rolleyes:

[beelzebub]

Yes, because it's the good teachers that find every reason they can to bitch about the job.:rolleyes:

GOD you are so stupid. Re-read her response. She wasn't bitching she was describing the difficulties she faces as a teacher to combat the ignorance of people like you.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

GOD you are so stupid. Re-read her response. She wasn't bitching she was describing the difficulties she faces as a teacher to combat the ignorance of people like you.


Please, what help does it provide you by attempting to belittle your competition so often with groundless insults? You're adding the problem of semantics into it again. There is little difference between 'bitching' and 'describing difficulties.' One is interpreted as a poor response to a situation, the other is interpreted as an educated response to a situation. Either way, both could be used interdependantly to say the same thing. Just leaving a different impression on the reader.

[beelzebub]

Please, what help does it provide you by attempting to belittle your competition so often with groundless insults? You're adding the problem of semantics into it again. There is little difference between 'bitching' and 'describing difficulties.' One is interpreted as a poor response to a situation, the other is interpreted as an educated response to a situation. Either way, both could be used interdependantly to say the same thing. Just leaving a different impression on the reader.

Once again you show your own limited knowledge.

Bitching is complaining about something you dont like
She was describing events. She did not (in any way) say she disliked it!

I like to leave the impression to the readers. Unfortunatly you dont read or comprehend.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Once again you show your own limited knowledge.

Bitching is complaining about something you dont like
She was describing events. She did not (in any way) say she disliked it!

I like to leave the impression to the readers. Unfortunatly you dont read or comprehend.

Once again, you're doing nothing more than trying to belittle your competition with nothing more than mindless insults.

She didn't need to say that she disliked it, her message indicated that she disliked it. As you've just said, leave the impression to the readers. Guess what? I'm one of those! Regardless of what your twisted queer mind takes in, I read, comprehend and show the error in the logic behind your post. If you like to leave the impression to the readers, then why do you negate every reader's understanding that points out the falacies with your argument? And why do you then twist the meaning of your competitions' arguments? This is just defenses that are created by politicians who have no true ground on which to stand.

[beelzebub]

Once again, you're doing nothing more than trying to belittle your competition with nothing more than mindless insults.

She didn't need to say that she disliked it, her message indicated that she disliked it. As you've just said, leave the impression to the readers. Guess what? I'm one of those!

No evidence to purport your claim. You "infer" therefore you say it is.


Regardless of what your twisted queer mind takes in, I read, comprehend and show the error in the logic behind your post.

"Once again, you're doing nothing more than trying to belittle your competition with nothing more than mindless insults."

Notice how I have used your own words against you. This is a good form of debate. FYI: You are now called a hypocrite.


If you like to leave the impression to the readers, then why do you negate every reader's understanding that points out the falacies with your argument?

Once again NO EVIDENCE to support your claim. Just shit out of your mouth (as usual)


And why do you then twist the meaning of your competitions' arguments? This is just defenses that are created by politicians who have no true ground on which to stand.

Where is the twist? I asked a question. I made a comparison. You don’t do anything but give fluff for rebuttal. Quote and give FUCKING evidence to support your claims. Otherwise you are just spouting off garbage (as usual).

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

No evidence to purport your claim. You "infer" therefore you say it is.

Read the entire message that you're negating, the "inference" is exactly what you told me that was important.




"Once again, you're doing nothing more than trying to belittle your competition with nothing more than mindless insults."

Notice how I have used your own words against you. This is a good form of debate. FYI: You are now called a hypocrite.

On the contrary, I used an insult (queer) but still showed my intent. If you're so insulted by the word 'queer' then why do you use it to describe yoursel?




Once again NO EVIDENCE to support your claim. Just shit out of your mouth (as usual)

I don't need evidence, you claim yourself to be intelligent, go back and read previous posts and you can find your evidence. I don't need to waste this sort of time for those who can't understand it without my help.




Where is the twist? I asked a question. I made a comparison. You don’t do anything but give fluff for rebuttal. Quote and give FUCKING evidence to support your claims. Otherwise you are just spouting off garbage (as usual).

The twist is in other posts. Look around, just at what has been posted TODAY! Any intelligent being will be able to find the twists that I refer to.

[beelzebub]

Read the entire message that you're negating, the "inference" is exactly what you told me that was important.


Oh no, I wasn't complaining at all. That was just the job description. Like your sister, I too love my job. I feel quite fulfilled, and if I had a job that would pay me more money, like a business-type profession, I would be very unhappy. Many people do not have the patience it takes to be a teacher.

Here she DISPUTES YOUR CLAIM. YOU need to read and comprehend if you can.

[beelzebub]

I used an insult (queer) but still showed my intent. If you're so insulted by the word 'queer' then why do you use it to describe yoursel?

I am not insulted by queer. I am simply pointing out that YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE! You said:


Once again, you're doing nothing more than trying to belittle your competition with nothing more than mindless insults.

Past statement by BBO:

I don't need evidence, you claim yourself to be intelligent, go back and read previous posts and you can find your evidence this posting AND posting #76. I don't need to waste time for those who can't understand it without my help.

Yes, you do need to provide evidence. Obviously no one can trust your irrational diatribe as I have just pointed out WITH EVIDENCE!

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brains_Behind_Operation
I used an insult (queer) but still showed my intent. If you're so insulted by the word 'queer' then why do you use it to describe yoursel?


I am not insulted by queer. I am simply pointing out that YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE! You said:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brains_Behind_Operation
Once again, you're doing nothing more than trying to belittle your competition with nothing more than mindless insults.

This is not an insult, it is informing you of your mistake.




Yes, you do need to provide evidence. Obviously no one can trust your irrational diatribe as I have just pointed out WITH EVIDENCE!

You have pointed out nothing, I don't know to what this 'AND posting = 76' refers, but if you intend it to be the base of your argument, then make certain it works before submitting it.

[beelzebub]

This is not an insult, it is informing you of your mistake.

You must be incapable of understanding logic and reason.


You have pointed out nothing, I don't know to what this 'AND posting = 76' refers, but if you intend it to be the base of your argument, then make certain it works before submitting it.

I have pointed out what you refuse to accept: YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE! Jesus, it is pointless to debate with you.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

You must be incapable of understanding logic and reason.

No, you are incapable of understanding what a person means, even after they explain their intentions.




I have pointed out what you refuse to accept: YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE! Jesus, it is pointless to debate with you.

No you have not. You have stated that I am a hypocrite. I see no connections that support this claim. I am stating facts. I'm sorry if it offends you, but facts sometimes do that to those who are unwilling to accept them.

[beelzebub]

Teachers don't get enough pay! It's so terrible, because they are responsible for the future of the world. They are entrusted with our youngsters. Their jobs are SO important, and they should really be paid much more. And being a teacher is ALOT of work. It's no easy task. Teaching is a very strenuous job, and I hope that in the future, teachers are paid alot more.

And how about the police? Their job is equally as important as teachers, but they are also underpaid! What is going on?!?!?!


You are absolutely right. Thanks for your support!

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

You are absolutely right. Thanks for your support!


Partially right. They do make a big contribution to society. They teach our childred. But so many people are capable of this task that the worth of it (monetarily) drops. Teaching is easier a task than many others that people take on. The ease of this task is decided differently by each individual's opinion, and the majority rule says that it is being paid enough for its difficulty level.

[housecup]

I appreciate both of your feedback. But, um...I'm actually a guy.

Nearly every day at school is difficult and demanding, but I knew this before I got into teaching. I also believe that the intrinsic value of teaching kids outweighs the trials and tribulations. Nearly every day, I go home feeling like I had done something valuble with my time. And I firmly believe that not everyone can do this.

So I want to ask this question: If teachers were paid a considerable ammount more, like a six-figure salary, would everyone do it?

[beelzebub]

I appreciate both of your feedback. But, um...I'm actually a guy.

So I want to ask this question: If teachers were paid a considerable ammount more, like a six-figure salary, would everyone do it?

Sorry housecup. I am a male teacher as well.
No only would there be more people wanting to be teachers but schools would be able to pick the best cannidates. It would get rid of many of the apathetic teachers in this world.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Sorry housecup. I am a male teacher as well.
No only would there be more people wanting to be teachers but schools would be able to pick the best cannidates. It would get rid of many of the apathetic teachers in this world.


Yes, we could eliminate many problems in this world if everyone had more money. But then, if everyone had more money then the money would be worth less than it is now, and the problems would very quickly resurface because we are then receiving the same amount, value wise.

[housecup]

So, do you think there would be more teachers if the pay was higher, but the qualifications the same?

I'm not so sure there would be so many more teachers.

For example, there aren't so many stock brokers and investment bankers in America, at least no more than there are teachers, although I may be wrong.

I have met people with these kinds of professions, and they say these jobs aren't so challenging that one would have to be super human.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

So, do you think there would be more teachers if the pay was higher, but the qualifications the same?

I'm not so sure there would be so many more teachers.

For example, there aren't so many stock brokers and investment bankers in America, at least no more than there are teachers, although I may be wrong.

I have met people with these kinds of professions, and they say these jobs aren't so challenging that one would have to be super human.

There would definately be more teachers! Many schools have a problem hiring decent Math teachers, (for example,) because they can find better paying jobs in other professions. If teachers were paid a higher salary many people would take this easier job, even if it wasn't quite as high a salary as what they're getting at a more difficult job.

Yes, they say these jobs aren't so challenging, but they require a higher comprehension of the material to get into them. So the people who are intelligent enough to do these jobs on average wouldn't say that they are extremely difficult. They did choose the profession for a reason.

[housecup]

what do you think beelzebub?

[Uncle Fox]

Speaking as a teacher, I have to agree for the most part. I've been teaching 16 years, make an OK salary (I take home $3K+ a month) and the bennies make up another 28%. But I do hear a lot of teachers, and often the ones who work the least and give a crap the least, bitching about their earnings, and it bunches my shorts too.

On the other hand, as someone pointed out SOME of us put in a hell of a lot of free overtime. I tracked my out of school work two years ago and I spent over 600 hours in '03, outside of my paid workday, grading papers and creating lessons and that doesn't count the hours I put in keeping up on the reading in my field. 600 hours accounts for just a litte more than the 10 weeks we get off every summer.

I waited till I was in my 40's to start teaching because any earlier and I would have been fired to first year for decking some smart ass kid. I waited till I was sure that I don't give a crap what anyone said to me or thought of me before I went into the classroom, and I've really enjoyed it.

I'm happy teaching HS because (1) I don't take things personally, (2) I NEVER lie to a student and (3) I really am interested in seeing people I like survive.It works for me and most of my students. They don't BS me and I've had lots of kids who have failed my class com,e back and repeat a course with me because they KNEW I was serious about wanting to see them succeed. I also find teaching to be a lot of fun and that's kind of contagious, once they know you're not putting it on.

I think that kids in school today have it a hell of a lot harder than I did because getting a descent job now requires you to know a lot more stuff than when I dropped out at 16. Today's adolescents are going into a rapidly shrinking and incredibly competitive job market and its really easy to get discouraged and turned of by some of the crappy teaching and stupid rules that high schools put so much importance into.

What everyone needs to understand that, at least in my estimate and experience, at least with regard to HS teachers, about half us are here to help students and to make it as interesting as we can. The other thing you need to remember is that teachers puit us with just as many nonsensical BS rules as students do, that often make teaching harder.

The bottom line is this - just as in any other line of work, there are those who really wnat to do the best job they can because they care, and there are the sandbaggers who do just enough to kep from getting fired, and those are the guys always bitching about their pay.

Education takes TWO people working, a teacher and a student and it works best when they trust one another.

[chendong]

some apple-head has just mentioned that
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Teachers bitch about their yearly income when they don't even work all year!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
yeah,totally bullshit!
What's a nation's future? the youth;What makes them become that nation's tomorrow? education.That is to say,for the sake of building tomorrow,teachers deserve to be paid well.
W.T.F. makes you think that becoming a teacher is so easy.As long as there is fucking students like you.teaching would be a tough work.
we lile our teachers.

[tosmartforyou]

I think teachers should get paid more than a Doctor or a lawyer. If it wasn't it the teacher they wouldn't be what they are today! I also think that we have some really bad teachers and we should be able to fire them. You can get a job at a store but if you don't do what your paid to do you are FIRED!!!
The bad teachers makes the really good one look bad. Then you have the pain in the ass students who don't want to learn and want to act up. Parents who want them to teach their children right from wrong. I am a parent and I made sure my child knew right from wrong. Don't blame the teacher on your stupid actions!!!

[letlifelive2003]

I agree, Teachers need to be paid alot more. The job itself is very stressfull, and without the teachers, how would kids get an education? That's where you start to become all these lawyers, ect. that gets them paid $$$. So why not get $$$ from where it started it all?

[Zzyzx]

tosmartforyou (you need an extra "o" on "too", btw) and letlifelive - Using your logic, everyone should be paid the big bucks! Where would we be if we didn't have garbagemen to haul our refuse away, truck drivers to deliver our food, electricians to keep our computers running, or construction workers to build our buildings, roads, and dams? Nowhere! Life as we know it wouldn't exist!

Fact is, those jobs (and teaching) don't require too much technical expertise, and people are willing to do them for less. I fail to see the problem.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

tosmartforyou (you need an extra "o" on "too", btw) and letlifelive - Using your logic, everyone should be paid the big bucks! Where would we be if we didn't have garbagemen to haul our refuse away, truck drivers to deliver our food, electricians to keep our computers running, or construction workers to build our buildings, roads, and dams? Nowhere! Life as we know it wouldn't exist!

Fact is, those jobs (and teaching) don't require too much technical expertise, and people are willing to do them for less. I fail to see the problem.

And how could I possibly get a quick cheap meal if McDonald's was paying its employees 50k/year plus benefits?

[Heifer]

Listen. Why are you so passionate about applying out dated economic models to the social status of teachers. The value of individuals can not be measured in that manner (if that were the case, you would deserve next to nothing for living in the past).
Every teacher I know puts in their own outside of work to get their planning done, time for which they are not paid. Moreover, most teachers choose to be teachers because they want to help, not because of the pay, which means that not everyone in "capitalist america" is as materialistic as you. Look at Americans who go into the Peace Corps. They get paid to live like crap for a couple of years, but they help people who need help. That is their drive.
How crappy it is that selfish assholes like yourself do not want to give economic success to where it is deserved.
Did someone teach you that you should be on top of the world, becuase it seems to me that you are living in the past.
Josh, the real BULLSHIT is what is spewing out of your mouth!

[letlifelive2003]

josh, the real BULLSHIT is what is spewing out of your mouth!

lol, Good one!

[Zzyzx]

...they help people who need help. That is their drive. How crappy it is that selfish assholes like yourself do not want to give economic success to where it is deserved.

Exactly! Teachers get more than a paycheck every month - they get that warm, fuzzy feeling that they've helped someone, too. That's why they do it, that's why they wake up in the morning, and that's what they wanted! They're out there to teach, not to drive fast cars, own large houses, or to go on tropical vacations every summer. Why, why, why do already tight-budgeted municipalities need to pay more?

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Every teacher I know puts in their own outside of work to get their planning done, time for which they are not paid. Moreover, most teachers choose to be teachers because they want to help, not because of the pay, which means that not everyone in "capitalist america" is as materialistic as you.

So if these teachers decide that it's worth the effort because of something more than the pay, something that's not materialistic, then why do they need to be paid more? It seems obvious that the teachers see the tradeoff between the money that they could be earning in another job and the inmaterial advantages of teaching, and still choose teaching.

In the plain and simple, teachers are paid enough because if they weren't there would be a shortage of them. When this shortage becomes large enough the pay will have to increase to accomodate. That's how the economy works, things change when they need to. Since things aren't changing, they must not need any change. Therefore, teacher pay is enough.

[Zzyzx]

Your ideas intrigue me, BBO. I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Your ideas intrigue me, BBO. I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Great! I send them out once every other month at a minimal charge of just $19.99/week. Your first order should arrive within 4-6 months after the first year's payment has been received.:D

[Heifer]

Listen, it is plain and simple. There are areas where we do not have enough teachers. And pay does not increase. What does that say? It says that we as a society do not value what they do.
Stop this supply demand bullshit. Take a sociological approach to solving a problem that is broader than individual choice. This is a problem with values in our society.
Your under developed thoughts on this issue lead to an opinion that is...bullshit!

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Listen, it is plain and simple. There are areas where we do not have enough teachers. And pay does not increase. What does that say? It says that we as a society do not value what they do.
Stop this supply demand bullshit. Take a sociological approach to solving a problem that is broader than individual choice. This is a problem with values in our society.
Your under developed thoughts on this issue lead to an opinion that is...bullshit!


Okay, so then why do you think we need to apply more value to what teachers do? Sure, things could be better if we paid teachers more, but is it really worth it? I'm getting what I need out of school with things the way they are, so I don't see any need to make things better. The American economy still thrives as the most prosperous with things the way they are, so again I see no need to teach our kids better. There are areas where things are bad and could use improvement, while there are also areas that are problably doing better than they deserve. But all in all, things are working out just fine, so why change them? If teachers want more money, then they need to do something else or extra to earn it.

[Heifer]

okay...here is how the economy would work if we paid teachers more. You are right...there would be more competition for teacher jobs because of their ecnomic value. In theory, this would mean better teachers, ideas, and methods. (this is how capitalism works). In theory, since almost everyone goes to school and is taught by teachers, this would benefit everyone, and make a lot of other areas of society improve.
I am not saying that there are no shitty teachers. I have seen many. But, believe me, good teachers change lives for the better and inspire people.
If you want improvement, then pay teachers more, and in ten years, results will follow. If you don't want to invest in anything type of research, development, or teaching, that you can live in Afganistan under a rock and invest in selling your own BULLSHIT!

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

I simply don't see a need for better teachers. It doesn't appear worth it to take more away from my income to improve something that is working just fine as it is. As far as those kids that we think may need extra assistance one way or another, they should be receiving it from their parents. We are expecting far too much from the teachers nowadays, asking them to raise our children without our help. The parents need to be just as involved in teaching their children as the teachers are, if not MORE! If you expect someone else to raise your kids for you, then you need to pay them the extra price yourself! Get a nanny or take them to a very selective private school. Don't force the rest of the world to pay for what you are unwilling to yourself to give your child a bright future.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

[beelzebub]

I simply don't see a need for better teachers. It doesn't appear worth it to take more away from my income to improve something that is working just fine as it is.

This is a prime example your limited experience and knowledge base. There are literally thousands of examples of how we need better teachers and how the system is not working fine just the way it is.
One example:
Here in Baltimore about 45% of the teachers are not certified. 80% of those that are not certified have never received training on how to teach. Only 20% of Baltimore’s teachers attend professional development courses and only 10% hold a masters degree or higher.
The city has been called "The City that Doesn’t Read" because literacy rates are as low as 60% in primary and 35% in secondary. Baltimore is also ranked 10th highest in the nation for violent crime.
In short, the teachers in Baltimore need training so they can be better at what they do.

How is it worth it? Better educated youth have better opportunities to succeed. More opportunities for success make less impoverished people. A direct correlation between poverty and crime exists. Therefore better education equals less crime. Plain and simple.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

If Baltimore needs better teachers then they should go out and find them. I'm talking in general, on the whole. You're limmiting your example here to a single city. A large city, and education in large cities is going to be worse because of what they have to deal with. Move out towards the suburbs and then the cities outside of the main flow of traffic. You'll find that things will get better, likely because of the atmosphere. A big city atmosphere simply doesn't promote good education.

On the other hand, if you need better teachers, why don't you start looking over here in Minnesota? We have plenty of good teachers here, arguably the best in the country. Arizona has been recruiting here because they know this. Tell your superiors to give us a shot.

[beelzebub]

If Baltimore needs better teachers then they should go out and find them. I'm talking in general, on the whole. You're limmiting your example here to a single city.

Do you honestly believe that this problem is limited to just big cities or just Baltimore? This is a problem ALL OVER THE COUNTRY. If you dont know this then look at the journals and the news! If you cannot realize this than you must be stupid.

You are not in education and you are not an expert on this issue. Listen to someone who knows for a change and stop defending your groundless argument just because you dont want to be proven wrong.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Do you honestly believe that this problem is limited to just big cities or just Baltimore? This is a problem ALL OVER THE COUNTRY. If you dont know this then look at the journals and the news! If you cannot realize this than you must be stupid.

You are not in education and you are not an expert on this issue. Listen to someone who knows for a change and stop defending your groundless argument just because you dont want to be proven wrong.


Here's an idea, how bout instead, you start backing up your claims with actual facts instead of being so damned pompous and rude to anyone who disagrees with you?

I don't see a problem nearly as large as you state it is. Whatever problem there may be isn't effecting me enough to need things to change. I do not want to pay more taxes to change something that appears to be working fine.

You'll never create a system that works so great for everyone that you won't be hearing complaints from somewhere. But the complaints right now are not that bad, the country still seems to be working fine with teacher pay as it is, and teachers are getting by just fine and enjoying the work, (the vast majority of them anyways).

I must repeat if it ain't broke don't fix it. It may look like it could use some tweaking, but any adjustments you make have just as good a chance of making a working system WORSE as they do in making it better.

[RangerMWilhite]

now we dont exactly have to pay more taxes, but here is something you may not know... in 1991 american tax payers spent 2.9 million advertisig pillsbury muffins and pies, 10 million promoting sunkist oranges, 465,00 for McDonalds chicken nuggets, 1.2 million boosting the international sales of american legend mink coats, and 2.5 million extolling the virtues of dole pineapples, nuts, and prunes. Common Cause has actually pointed out that 50 million of taxpayer money has gone to help market california wines abroad. Now tell me that we are spending our tax dollars on the right things. This country has become so corrupt between corporations and government, its almost impossible to stop.

Now the majority of this came from an article called CORPORATION NATION.

Corporations collect more handouts than all of the nations poor COMBINED! Dont believe me, do some fucking research. One out of every 5 children is below the poverty line. Fight for the right to put your tax dollars to good use people!!! Dont just sit there and bitch all the time. Write your senators, vote them out of office if they wont listen, lets turn america back around... PLEASE!!! We need teacher reform everywhere, by the way. It is a big problem, and i dont see why we dont use all the money given to corporations for educational purposes and shit.

[beelzebub]

now we dont exactly have to pay more taxes, but here is something you may not know... in 1991 american tax payers spent 2.9 million advertisig pillsbury muffins and pies, 10 million ...

Its all American misplaced values and corrupt government officials.
Sad but true.
They beguile the oblivious with trivial issues like gay marriage and abortion to name a few while the real needs go by and big business men get richer.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Its all American misplaced values and corrupt government officials.
Sad but true.
They beguile the oblivious with trivial issues like gay marriage and abortion to name a few while the real needs go by and dig business men get richer.

Yes, why don't we change the ways of America and punish the business men who are smart enough to take the proper actions to earn more money. Punish people who do what it takes to earn money.

What is a "dig" business man anyways?

[beelzebub]

Yes, why don't we change the ways of America and punish the business men who are smart enough to take the proper actions to earn more money. Punish people who do what it takes to earn money.

I said nothing about punishment for bid business men dumbass. His article was about how they use tax dollars to make more profit.

You are a true idiot.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

I said nothing about punishment for bid business men dumbass. His article was about how they use tax dollars to make more profit.

You are a true idiot.

You didn't need to say it, your argument implies that it is the right thing to do. If that was not your intent, then you may want to attempt to articulate yourself more appropriately. And watch out for those tough to spell 'bid' (or 'dig') words.

[beelzebub]

You didn't need to say it, your argument implies that it is the right thing to do. .

No it didn't. It said nothing about that. YOU read it in the argument. As you always do in the forum. You assume .. another example of your poor debating "skills".

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

No it didn't. It said nothing about that. YOU read it in the argument. As you always do in the forum. You assume .. another example of your poor debating "skills".

Okay genius, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Maybe you don't want business men punished. But tell me then, what was the point of stating out that they were part of the problem? Tell me what you intended to imply with the statement: "the real needs go by and dig business men get richer."

[beelzebub]

... But tell me then, what was the point of stating out that they were part of the problem? Tell me what you intended to imply with the statement: "the real needs go by and dig business men get richer."

The reason I said: "The real needs go by and big business men get richer" is because RangerMWilhite cited examples of how we misappropriate taxes.

Spending taxpayer money making big business men richer does not help public schools.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

The reason I said: "The real needs go by and big business men get richer" is because RangerMWilhite cited examples of how we misappropriate taxes.

Spending taxpayer money making big business men richer does not help public schools.

...and your solution would be....

[beelzebub]

...and your solution would be....

Instead of giving money to companies to run ads (like they can’t afford it) Provide programs for teacher professional development and school improvements.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Instead of giving money to companies to run ads (like they can’t afford it) Provide programs for teacher professional development and school improvements.

Stated in another way, take the money away from the companies that have done what it takes to earn it, and give it to people who haven't figured out how to earn the money. Sounds like a punishment to me, so my initial assumption was accurate.

[beelzebub]

Stated in another way, take the money away from the companies that have done what it takes to earn it, and give it to people who haven't figured out how to earn the money. Sounds like a punishment to me, so my initial assumption was accurate.


You are completly WRONG (again) I did not state it that way at all.
I said:
"Its all American misplaced values and corrupt government officials.
Sad but true.
They beguile the oblivious with trivial issues like gay marriage and abortion to name a few while the real needs go by and big business men get richer."

I don't see how you can get what you said out of this. You must not read very well.
I dont see why the federal government needs to help select businesses. Why is it that there are only certian businesses?
Corruption.... ?

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

You are completly WRONG (again) I did not state it that way at all.
I said:
"Its all American misplaced values and corrupt government officials.
Sad but true.
They beguile the oblivious with trivial issues like gay marriage and abortion to name a few while the real needs go by and big business men get richer."

I don't see how you can get what you said out of this. You must not read very well.

On the contrary, you are the one who is unable to read well. My last reply points out that you see it exactly the way that I assumed. You simply stated it in different words in hopes that I would not be able to point out how you agree with me. Stop twisting it back in circles, you pointed out that the money needs to be taken away from the big companies and given to the teachers.

[beelzebub]

You simply stated it in different words in hopes that I would not be able to point out how you agree with me. Stop twisting it back in circles, you pointed out that the money needs to be taken away from the big companies and given to the teachers.

The money is not being taken away and it is not their income we would be appropriating. These are public funds going into their business and they are not entitled to it. Public funds are to be used for public services. The only reason that they get it is because of corrupt government (probably started off with good intentions but now has lost its meaning). Anyone can see that helping pay big businesses (like McDonalds) sell their merchandise (on TV, newspapers & whatever) is not good use of public funds.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

The money is not being taken away and it is not their income we would be appropriating. These are public funds going into their business and they are not entitled to it. Public funds are to be used for public services. The only reason that they get it is because of corrupt government (probably started off with good intentions but now has lost its meaning). Anyone can see that helping pay big businesses (like McDonalds) sell their merchandise (on TV, newspapers & whatever) is not good use of public funds.


They still found some way to earn it. The money is not just given to them. they have to do something to acquire it. IF they are doing something to acquire it, then it is being taken away from them under your solution. Good use of public funds or not, they earned it in some form.

[beelzebub]

They still found some way to earn it. The money is not just given to them. they have to do something to acquire it. bla bla bla

Of course it is GIVEN to them. The government is paying for their advertising. Now you are just being stubborn.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Of course it is GIVEN to them. The government is paying for their advertising. Now you are just being stubborn.


So you think that the government just walks up to every big business and says "we have a few million dollars here, do you think you can find some way to use it"? No, something extra is being done. Accept it, figure out what it is, and then do it better than them to earn it first.

[beelzebub]

So you think that the government just walks up to every big business and says "we have a few million dollars here, do you think you can find some way to use it"? No, something extra is being done. Accept it, figure out what it is, and then do it better than them to earn it first.

I KNOW that it happens. Did you know that the government is JUST NOW talking about cutting funding to oil companies for research? EVEN after they have been making record profits for years! WHY? ...because the public is involved now. Imagine how many other ways they continue to spend money needlessly?

Every heard of farmers who get paid by the Govt for sitting o their ass? A few wicked farmers don’t plant anything and then claim that their crops were destroyed and then get hundreds of thousands for doing absolutely NOTHING.

BTW I know of about 50 examples so there has to be 1,000s of ways.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

I KNOW that it happens. Did you know that the government is JUST NOW talking about cutting funding to oil companies for research? EVEN after they have been making record profits for years! WHY? ...because the public is involved now. Imagine how many other ways they continue to spend money needlessly?

Every heard of farmers who get paid by the Govt for sitting o their ass? A few wicked farmers don’t plant anything and then claim that their crops were destroyed and then get hundreds of thousands for doing absolutely NOTHING.

BTW I know of about 50 examples so there has to be 1,000s of ways.


So use some of them! Instead of complaining how poorly the government is running things, take advantage of them until they figure out how make things better! That's what America is all about!!!!

[beelzebub]

So use some of them! Instead of complaining how poorly the government is running things, take advantage of them until they figure out how make things better! That's what America is all about!!!!

Uhmmmm I don’t think you are getting it. They (Politicians) give the money to these companies because the companies give them money for their campaign.
You can’t get that money unless you are a business man trying to bribe a politician.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Uhmmmm I don’t think you are getting it. They (Politicians) give the money to these companies because the companies give them money for their campaign.
You can’t get that money unless you are a business man trying to bribe a politician.


hey, you've told me that you've got plenty of spare cash lying around, in all those properties you own. Why not figure out how to use that extra money to bribe the politicians if that's what you;re looking for. Just be creative!

[beelzebub]

hey, you've told me that you've got plenty of spare cash lying around, in all those properties you own. Why not figure out how to use that extra money to bribe the politicians if that's what you;re looking for. Just be creative!

I am speaking for my poor teacher brethren. Sorry all my extra money is tied up in cash (or equity). ha ha


BTW I have an orange account. Talk about returns! I want to give more but I am afraid of reaching the ceiling of guarantee by the fed. Any thoughts?

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

I am speaking for my poor teacher brethren. Sorry all my extra money is tied up in cash (or equity). ha ha


BTW I have an orange account. Talk about returns! I want to give more but I am afraid of reaching the ceiling of guarantee by the fed. Any thoughts?

Yea, if you think that you've got more than enough then start givig it to some of your brethren. Or better yet, use it to run for office and start aiming those misplaced funds you speak of in what you believe is the right direction, (supposedly theirs).

[beelzebub]

Yea, if you think that you've got more than enough then start givig it to some of your brethren. Or better yet, use it to run for office and start aiming those misplaced funds you speak of in what you believe is the right direction, (supposedly theirs).

Nope. Not gonna do it. Wouldn't be prudent at this juncture.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

Nope. Not gonna do it. Wouldn't be prudent at this juncture.

In that case complaining won't help you either, just sit back and accept it. I thought people like you liked taking it up the ass anyways?

[beelzebub]

In that case complaining won't help you either, just sit back and accept it. I thought people like you liked taking it up the ass anyways?

I am complaining about misappropriation of taxpayer’s money, not mine.
I would rather suffer behemoth dingdongs than a whopping withdraws.

[crie]

from JOSH: Teachers bitch about their yearly income when they don't even work all year! Such BULLSHIT! I spend more time in the classroom than a teacher does (teachers work 3 periods rather than 4 in 4x4 schools because they have a planning period), and if you do the math and calculate how many hours a week they spend in the classroom, teaching is technically a HALF-TIME JOB!!! Also, for reasons noone can explain, unlike every other job in america, teachers get away with not calculating benefits when they bitch about their income (and, believe me, gov't. jobs include a LOT of benefits).

all I have to say is:
Don't you realize that there are enough people to hate in the world already without your working so hard to give us another?
teachers work very hard, and I PERSONALLY believe it is one of the most respectable positions to hold in this world. they are teaching our future doctors, lawyers, revolutionaries, conservationalists, teachers, homemakers, and all other occupations of sorts. without teachers we would still be baboons er whatever. what do I know? I'm a high school drop out ( which I regret.)
but in short, I believe teachers should be right up there in the pay range of brain surgeons.
oh, and there are many if not all, schools funded by the states these days, not federal, smart one.

[Nairbowsu]

Hey Fucktards. i have a new idea, how about you all try and fucking agree that the pencil puchers at the top of the School get paid to much. that some teachers suck ass. and some teachers deserve more. their are teacher taht get way overpaid, all they do is lecture. talk all fucking day. their are some teachers that try their fucking best. spend THEIR money to try to get people to learn. some try a little bit and deserve what they get paid. its not fucking black and white. its not a yes or no question. you fucking idiots

[beelzebub]

...i have a new idea, how about you all try and agree that the pencil puchers at the top of the School get paid to much.

The thread is called "teacher pay" not "school administration pay"


that some teachers suck ass. and some teachers deserve more. their are teacher taht get way overpaid, all they do is lecture. talk all fucking day.

Like presidents, telemarketers, lawyers, politicians, and whiney junior members on bullshit.com


their are some teachers that try their fucking best. spend THEIR money to try to get people to learn.

I see, so by your logic if we try hard and spend our money to teach then we are good teachers? I just wish my mechanic had the same philosophy.


some try a little bit and deserve what they get paid. its not fucking black and white. its not a yes or no question. you fucking idiots

What it is:
We are not paid as much as our counterparts in other fields. For example: I hold a Masters Degree in Biology and my counterparts in private and public sectors make 30% to 100% more than I do.
Why is this important?:
It is common knowledge that teachers do not make a lot of money. Therefore many people in college are making other career choices. I, like many of my colleagues, want to leave the education field for something better. We are very good teachers. If pay is driving us out of education then what will happen to education as a whole. Furthermore; when schools are cannot offer competitive salaries they have to accept whoever applies and have difficulty getting rid of teachers that are ineffective.

So yeah, fucktard, I can see it as rather distinct.

[General Septem]

A lot of teachers complain about their pay, but not a lot of people are getting taught.

You tell a teacher's competence by their students, and the world is full of idiots. Then you get people like me who barely even went to school, and I'm smarter than just about everyone. School robbed me of a lot of years, yet I could've learned everything they ever taught me in a month. Hell, I already knew half of what they taught me. Shit, when I was in sixth grade, they spent three weeks learning how to read the compass rose, and that was the so-called "finest school in the city". You know what? The finest school in the city was dismal, and that says a lot about the rest of the schools in the city. I've had it up to here with all this happy-joy bullshit about how great schools are and how integral they are to a person's character. By the way, the next person to say "you have no future if you don't go to college" gets to enjoy the rare experience of pulling their own brains out the several assholes I will have torn them.

[beelzebub]

A lot of teachers complain about their pay, but not a lot of people are getting taught.

I will agree that there are bad teachers that do not teach well. SO LIKE I SAID... if teachers were paid more then there would be more people who try to be a teacher. This would allow the schools to be more selective.

Another thing; it is well known why student achievement is down: LACK OF MOTIVATION. Many students DO NOT GIVE A CRAP. I can only teach those who want to learn.


You tell a teacher's competence by their students, and the world is full of idiots. Then you get people like me who barely even went to school, and I'm smarter than just about everyone.... more narcissism blabla..."

Gee, I wonder how you got so stuck on yourself.


By the way, the next person to say "you have no future if you don't go to college" gets to enjoy the rare experience of pulling their own brains out the several assholes I will have torn them.

All college does... is give you more opportunity. The more opportunities you have the better your chances of success.

[General Septem]

Another thing; it is well known why student achievement is down: LACK OF MOTIVATION. Many students DO NOT GIVE A CRAP. I can only teach those who want to learn.

They should've been taught to give a shit. So it's not all your fault; it's their previous teachers' fault. And the media's fault. People like Eminem are teaching them things like "I just don't give a fuck" - what do you expect?


All college does... is give you more opportunity. The more opportunities you have the better your chances of success.

That doesn't mean I have no chance if I don't. Hence the pulling one's brains out of their ass thing.

[beelzebub]

They should've been taught to give a shit. So it's not all your fault; it's their previous teachers' fault. And the media's fault. People like Eminem are teaching them things like "I just don't give a fuck" - what do you expect?

NO, the parents need to give a shit. Then the students will. You don’t hear of private schools with such problems (except the religious ones) because when parents pay for something, they GIVE A SHIT.

That stuff about Eminem and the like is true as well.

Look, good teachers spark interest, make the lesson engaging and assess relative to the students place and time and needs. WE ARE NOT responsible for making students care and be responsible. At some point students and parents have to take responsibility for their own actions. (Of course I am talking from the perspective of a HS teacher)


That doesn't mean I have no chance if I don't. Hence the pulling one's brains out of their ass thing.

I don’t believe I have ever said thus. If you interpreted that from something I wrote please take what I have said now as the way I truly believe.

My brother never went to college and he has a wonderful life and plenty of money same is true for my mother. Same was true for my father.

[General Septem]

NO, the parents need to give a shit. Then the students will. You don’t hear of private schools with such problems (except the religious ones) because parents that pay for something they could get free GIVE A SHIT.

But parents don't give a shit. Why? Because somewhere down the line, people stopped giving a shit. Something had to be a catalyst to that. The parents giving a shit just isn't enough, because kids will rebel.


I don’t believe I have ever said thus. If you interpreted that from something I wrote please take what I have said now as the way I truly believe.

My brother never went to college and he has a wonderful life and plenty of money same is true for my mother. Same was true for my father.

Nah, I didn't take it as an attack. I agree that in a lot of cases college can be a good thing. I was just saying a lot of people (not you) are judgmental about that kind of thing.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

But parents don't give a shit. Why? Because somewhere down the line, people stopped giving a shit. Something had to be a catalyst to that. The parents giving a shit just isn't enough, because kids will rebel.


Kids will always rebel. It's just a stage that everyone goes through in life. The parents staying out of it is not going to make things better. The first place that education needs to happen is in the household. If parents just sit back and expect their children to learn everything that they need to know from the schools we're going to get a country full of dumbasses. Wait, that's already happened! The parents need to step in and start teaching their kids morals and ethics at least. The schools are there to teach kids what they're expected to know in society, parents have to take care of the other more sensitive topics.




Nah, I didn't take it as an attack. I agree that in a lot of cases college can be a good thing. I was just saying a lot of people (not you) are judgmental about that kind of thing.

No reason to be judgemental about it. If you've found a life-path that doesn't require college and you're satisfied with, then more power to you. But there are a lot of careers that require a college degree, and if you don't have one then you have no reason to complain that you can't get accepted to the job that you want.

[General Septem]

Kids will always rebel. It's just a stage that everyone goes through in life. The parents staying out of it is not going to make things better. The first place that education needs to happen is in the household. If parents just sit back and expect their children to learn everything that they need to know from the schools we're going to get a country full of dumbasses. Wait, that's already happened! The parents need to step in and start teaching their kids morals and ethics at least. The schools are there to teach kids what they're expected to know in society, parents have to take care of the other more sensitive topics.

But many don't. Or maybe they do and it's not working. Yes, parents are important, but if the kids rebel it's not going to have been for anything anyway. The parents that don't give a shit were the ones that weren't taught well themselves.

[Brains_Behind_Operation]

But many don't. Or maybe they do and it's not working. Yes, parents are important, but if the kids rebel it's not going to have been for anything anyway. The parents that don't give a shit were the ones that weren't taught well themselves.


No, I think that just about every child rebels. It's something that comes naturally with the phase in their life of self actualization. The difference is the levels of their rebellion. Poor parents are the ones who have children whose level of rebellion gets out of control.

[melanie]

the first school is really at home in terms of discipline and upbringing and children learn in school all the academic lessons plus a follow up to what a kid learned at home. i agree, that parents should also play an active part inthe schooling otherwise it would be a tough job for everyone to handle a 'difficult' kid.