Proof that prayer fails

[theicidal maniac]

I've always felt that it's terribly arrogant to pray for things to happen, or for people to get better, or for anything, really. In order to pray for something you are making the assumption that you may persuade God to do grant your request. You also make the assumption that he will not do it if you don't ask. So, I say arrogant because anyone who does this is also making the assumption that they can persuade God, or maybe make him realize something he didn't think of before. Or maybe they believe that God is dangling happiness above our heads waiting for us to beg for it.

At any rate, all of that was put to the test some time ago at Harvard University, when a study was conducted with about 1800 cardio-bypass patients...The results don't look good, if you're someone who relies on prayer.

From Harvard University http://www.researchmatters.harvard.edu/story.php?article_id=1064

New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html?ex=1301461200&en=4acf338be4900000&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

http://www.physorg.com/news63551345.html

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2006/03/30/prayer-heart-surgery-20060330.html

Those are a few perspectives on the matter.

This is why religious people should rely not try to use science to support their religion...the results are always disastrous for them.

[something]

I've always felt that it's terribly arrogant to pray for things to happen, or for people to get better, or for anything, really. In order to pray for something you are making the assumption that you may persuade God to do grant your request. You also make the assumption that he will not do it if you don't ask. So, I say arrogant because anyone who does this is also making the assumption that they can persuade God, or maybe make him realize something he didn't think of before. Or maybe they believe that God is dangling happiness above our heads waiting for us to beg for it.

At any rate, all of that was put to the test some time ago at Harvard University, when a study was conducted with about 1800 cardio-bypass patients...The results don't look good, if you're someone who relies on prayer.

From Harvard University http://www.researchmatters.harvard.edu/story.php?article_id=1064

New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html?ex=1301461200&en=4acf338be4900000&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

http://www.physorg.com/news63551345.html

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2006/03/30/prayer-heart-surgery-20060330.html

Those are a few perspectives on the matter.

This is why religious people should rely not try to use science to support their religion...the results are always disastrous for them.

Yeah, like when they said that homosexuality is unatural, when it turns out that birds, lions and monkeys does it too.;)

[ajk]

Yes but the difference is, they don't have the same reasoning capacity we have. They can't really help themselves per se, but we on the other hand can.

[General Septem]

You, theicidal maniac, are the biggest dumbass I've ever met. I don't even know where to start to refute your statements, it's all just such bullshit.

[Ausinus]

Yes but the difference is, they don't have the same reasoning capacity we have. They can't really help themselves per se, but we on the other hand can.

Or maybe its because they are free of the scourge of religion.

[General Septem]

Or maybe its because they are free of the scourge of religion.
They're free of the scourge of any kind of morals. Animals kill each other.

[theicidal maniac]

You, theicidal maniac, are the biggest dumbass I've ever met. I don't even know where to start to refute your statements, it's all just such bullshit.

Hmmm that's funny, the Harvard Medical Association, along with most medical practitioners and the National Academy of the Sciences, and the Center For Inquiry would tend to disagree. And since YOU DON'T HAVE ANY MEDICAL TRAINING I GUESS YOUR OPINION DOESN'T MATTER. I am merely presenting the opinion of the authorities here.

And yes, I KNOW you don't know where to begin to refute this, because, AGAIN, you have no fucking clue what you are talking about.

[who897]

They're free of the scourge of any kind of morals. Animals kill each other.

ummm As a general rule, all animals kill other animals, insects, or plants. Everything is a killer!

[something]

They're free of the scourge of any kind of morals. Animals kill each other.

So why do you say that homosexuality is unatural, when no other animal has a religion, get married, build cities or anything that humans do, so isn't it we humans that are really unatural.:confused:

[theicidal maniac]

So why do you say that homosexuality is unatural, when no other animal has a religion, get married, build cities or anything that humans do, so isn't it we humans that are really unatural.:confused:

Well some animals DO take lifelong mates (marriage), and many creatures build "cities" (insects mostly) and many animals also engage in homosexual acts. Animals ALSO masturbate. There is a myth that the dolphin is the only animal besides humans who masturbate, but anyone who's ever been to the monkey cages at the zoo, and anyone who's had their leg humped by a dog knows that it's just a myth. In fact the only thing on that list that is not natural is religion. Maybe it's religion that we should be banning.

[who897]

Well some animals DO take lifelong mates (marriage), and many creatures build "cities" (insects mostly) and many animals also engage in homosexual acts. Animals ALSO masturbate. There is a myth that the dolphin is the only animal besides humans who masturbate, but anyone who's ever been to the monkey cages at the zoo, and anyone who's had their leg humped by a dog knows that it's just a myth. In fact the only thing on that list that is not natural is religion. Maybe it's religion that we should be banning.

I agree there is such thing as a athiest zebra being chased down by a lion LOL :D

[theicidal maniac]

I agree there is such thing as a athiest zebra being chased down by a lion LOL :D

Well, since animals in all likelihood don't believe in God, I'd say that all animals are atheists. Atheism isn't a set of beliefs. It's a refusal to accept irrational thinking. Animals mostly think fairly logically, the ones that don't die.

[General Septem]

So why do you say that homosexuality is unatural, when no other animal has a religion, get married, build cities or anything that humans do, so isn't it we humans that are really unatural.:confused:
Because we're talking about human nature, and the nature associated with being both intelligent and moral. The nature associated with knowing killing someone else is wrong.

[theicidal maniac]

Because we're talking about human nature, and the nature associated with being both intelligent and moral. The nature associated with knowing killing someone else is wrong.

That's not a natural conclusion either. Humans kill weachother all the time and justify it with their beliefs. That's what humans do.

Now let me tell you what Pussies do. Pussies block you (like General Septem is blocking me) because they know they can't fight back, and if they don't block you they will continue to get their asses kicked again and again.

[who897]

Because we're talking about human nature, and the nature associated with being both intelligent and moral. The nature associated with knowing killing someone else is wrong.

Is human nature different from dog nature? Is dog nature different from Elephant Nature? Is elephant nature different from King Crab nature?.....Can you prove without a doubt that any animal kills without prejudice or any other knowledge of what it is doing? I mean come on now man, it's a ridiculous assumption to think that we are better then any other animal that walks, swims or flies earth.

[beelzebub]

Yes but the difference is, they don't have the same reasoning capacity we have. They can't really help themselves per se, but we on the other hand can.

So,.. following what you have said: People who have these desires either use reasoning power to prevent it or don't use reasoning power and become it?

Therefore homosexuals do not use their reasoning abilities according to your idea.

If one is not able to reason can they function in life? (Get degrees and buy houses and own businesses). Why would one choose to use reasoning powers for one aspect of their life and not every other aspect?

If animals do not have reasoning powers how on earth do they ever find the right sex to copulate with? Wouldn't every hole look good enough to fuck? How could a monkey use a tool to probe a bug out of a log? How could a squirrel preform gymnastics to get to a food source? How could a mother whale recognize a relatives sound?

Are you homosexual and in the closet or just an idiot?

[ajk]

So,.. following what you have said: People who have these desires either use reasoning power to prevent it or don't use reasoning power and become it?



Basically yeah. I'm not saying they don't reason in other areas of their life, but they just don't here.

[who897]

Are you homosexual and in the closet or just an idiot?

You can have him in the homosexual category of folks......cuz we are feed up with his intolerance and ignorance in the straight one :D Perhaps being labeled something that he is totally against will open his eyes to the beautiful world of "Different" things and nothing is as rigid (no pun intended) as his idiotic religion lead him to believe

[theicidal maniac]

Basically yeah. I'm not saying they don't reason in other areas of their life, but they just don't here.

So they're like religious people then. In most areas of life they look for evidence. Science proves that if I don't eat I'll die. Science proves that the building I live in is structurally sound enough to live in. If I tell you that there is a refrigerator-sized diamond in the backyard (to borrow an example from Sam Harris) you will not go straight to your backyard and start digging...you want proof. If I say there is a monster under your bed, you don't believe it, because there is no proof. But when it comes to all things god religious people SHUT DOWN THE REASONING AND RATIONALIZATION CENTER OF THEIR BRAIN! Facts are no longer important. Emotions (which are not even uniform across all people) and personal anecdotes somehow become "evidence" and "proof."

[something]

Well some animals DO take lifelong mates (marriage), and many creatures build "cities" (insects mostly) and many animals also engage in homosexual acts. Animals ALSO masturbate. There is a myth that the dolphin is the only animal besides humans who masturbate, but anyone who's ever been to the monkey cages at the zoo, and anyone who's had their leg humped by a dog knows that it's just a myth. In fact the only thing on that list that is not natural is religion. Maybe it's religion that we should be banning.

My point was that animals only do things becouse of their instict, not becouse they want to, and that's what separates human from animals. And no you're going to say that some animals can do things becouse they want to and yes they do, but that's not my point.

[Ape-Shit]

Some one Please get an Animal Interpreter in here!:p