Some things really crease me.

[yee-haw]

Yeterday i'm on my way to the grocery store and i'm waiting at a red light behind this toyota tundra (I'm in my ford ranger)
I notice the bumper sticker he is sporting and it reads : "Join the army, Visit exotic places then kill the people there" I had to take a second look!!
So as we proceed down west 115th street in the north shore district he is in the left turn lane and i pull up next to him in the right.
I'm not really sure what or why the nature of the conversation i was about to engage in but i look over at him.. and we begin this contest of glares and stares.
So he says to me " You gotta problem dude"? I respond with "No...Not really" .."Only a concern actually". He then asked what was my concern?
I said the ignorant bumper sticker you have on your foriegn car... Well long story short we exchanged fuck you's and middle fingers and went seperate ways.
Reckon i shoulda kept my mouth shut but damn... i served my country and have friends whom have paid the ultimate price.
Just irritates me this sort of shit...


...Any thouhts?

[Limbo]

Yeterday i'm on my way to the grocery store and i'm waiting at a red light behind this toyota tundra (I'm in my ford ranger)
I notice the bumper sticker he is sporting and it reads : "Join the army, Visit exotic places then kill the people there" I had to take a second look!!
So as we proceed down west 115th street in the north shore district he is in the left turn lane and i pull up next to him in the right.
I'm not really sure what or why the nature of the conversation i was about to engage in but i look over at him.. and we begin this contest of glares and stares.
So he says to me " You gotta problem dude"? I respond with "No...Not really" .."Only a concern actually". He then asked what was my concern?
I said the ignorant bumper sticker you have on your foriegn car... Well long story short we exchanged fuck you's and middle fingers and went seperate ways.
Reckon i shoulda kept my mouth shut but damn... i served my country and have friends whom have paid the ultimate price.
Just irritates me this sort of shit...


...Any thouhts?

I agree, that would tick me off too. If it wasn't for the brave men and women that have served in the military, this asshole wouldn't enjoy the freedom to express his idiotic opinion on a bumper sticker in the first place. Ungrateful scum.

[sunny]

I think I would have let him have more of that... I would have really given him a piece of my mind. Not only that... but, I would watch out for him whenever I would be on the road.

Not for nothing... but this guy sounds dangerous. Think about THAT.

[Rise Up]

Um......I should not say what I would've done. Needless to say it would have something to do with a certain Russian named Molotov who inspired the name behind a certain Finnish anti-tank weapon.....

[eyeonyou]

These kind are dangerous. NOT because they are idiots, but because of the ignorant message they spread and get some to believe it.

I think I could have got by without saying anything to him on the road. BUT, if he frequented any place that I did, I bet one of us would have toted an ass whooping before it was done.

Morons like this don't deserve to be in this country. Yea I know, our military have given this type the right to be stupid and be here. Had it NOT been for them, then this idiot probably never would have been born anyway. Or he would NOT be able to express those views as a German or a Japanese citizen.

Friggin' dumbasses.

[yee-haw]

These kind are dangerous. NOT because they are idiots, but because of the ignorant message they spread and get some to believe it.

I think I could have got by without saying anything to him on the road. BUT, if he frequented any place that I did, I bet one of us would have toted an ass whooping before it was done.

Morons like this don't deserve to be in this country. Yea I know, our military have given this type the right to be stupid and be here. Had it NOT been for them, then this idiot probably never would have been born anyway. Or he would NOT be able to express those views as a German or a Japanese citizen.

Friggin' dumbasses.


To boot it all he probably don't even realize why he has the right to have that retarded sticker on his vehical in the first place.
People like this just should'nt breed.

[eyeonyou]

Imagine if he has kids the stupidity he may put in their heads....................You are right, let's castrate him!http://smileys.chitchat247.com/smilies/evilgrin0006.gif

[yee-haw]

I was thinking that as well, What if he's raising children?
The guy look to be mid to late 30's i would reckon... i won't say castrate. Educate would be helpful though...poor fuck!

[eyeonyou]

Yea, it's too late for rapid sterilization so educating him would be better. So when do you want to "educate" him? http://smileys.chitchat247.com/smilies/k0596.gif

[yee-haw]

Yea, it's too late for rapid sterilization so educating him would be better. So when do you want to "educate" him? http://smileys.chitchat247.com/smilies/k0596.gif

I was about ready to educate his ass the old fashioned way, I took a right turn instead... my luck the sumama-bitch woulda been packin a gun and shot my redneck ass.

[eyeonyou]

Since he was complaining of supposed violence by our military when doing as needed to keep us free, I bet he has an arsenal. He's probably a violent radical.

You made the best move!

[yee-haw]

Just can't figure someones stupidity to this degree, It would be the same as riding thru Atlanta with a kkk bumper sticker.
Maybe i should'nt let things like this bother me and i know i did the right thing by going on but it was just one of those days where i was fed up with horse shit.

[eyeonyou]

Just can't figure someones stupidity to this degree, It would be the same as riding thru Atlanta with a kkk bumper sticker.
Maybe i should'nt let things like this bother me and i know i did the right thing by going on but it was just one of those days where i was fed up with horse shit.

Oh I totally understand as ignorance is hard to watch. Stupid idget has no clue how lucky he is that our military can go and protect him and if NOT for doing it in the past, he would be in very bad shape, if he was here at all.

[Rec]

I am constantly amazed at the right to dissent containing a throw off on the actions deemed necessary to keep that right of dissent free, convuluted ignorance of just the basics of living free. And to be pitied. IMO

[yee-haw]

Oh I totally understand as ignorance is hard to watch. Stupid idget has no clue how lucky he is that our military can go and protect him and if NOT for doing it in the past, he would be in very bad shape, if he was here at all.
I approve of this post!


I am constantly amazed at the right to dissent containing a throw off on the actions deemed necessary to keep that right of dissent free, convuluted ignorance of just the basics of living free. And to be pitied. IMO

Ignorance is always amazing to me.

[MrJim]

I was about ready to educate his ass the old fashioned way, I took a right turn instead... my luck the sumama-bitch woulda been packin a gun and shot my redneck ass.

Yeah right, the pussy would have probably been scared to death if he saw a real gun.. war protesting hippies, gawd...

[Carrot]

I found it funny, like I find racist jokes funny.

I mean, if you are encouraged to join the army to "see new places and enjoy team building excercises", it's easy to see where that bumper sticker came from and what makes it funny.

[yee-haw]

I found it funny, like I find racist jokes funny.

I mean, if you are encouraged to join the army to "see new places and enjoy team building excercises", it's easy to see where that bumper sticker came from and what makes it funny.

You gotta be fucking kidding me?

[Carrot]

You gotta be fucking kidding me?

Well, recruiters tend to advertise it as leadership, team building and travelling, leaving out killing or risking your own life..

So, looking at it from the recruiting perspective it is funny.

[yee-haw]

Well, recruiters tend to advertise it as leadership, team building and travelling, leaving out killing or risking your own life..

So, looking at it from the recruiting perspective it is funny.

Well looking at it as a man who served in the military and know the price paid so these imbicles can wander the country totally oblivious to why...
I don't find that shit too damn funny at all!

[Rise Up]

Again, a little item with the name of Molotov ____________ would do wonders in fixing his opinions. Of course.....his opinion would be charred. >.>

[Carrot]

So haw, you're fine with racist jokes, but keep the military ones out of it!

If you can't laugh about it it's not worth taking seriously.

[Phoenix]

The bumper sticker does have some truth in it; all wars are murder, but what are you going to do about it? It's not like you can disband the army and just put a big KEEP OUT sign at the border. We should all look forward to the day when there's no military left on earth, but I think we all know that day isn't coming soon, and America has a right to be paranoid until then.

I'll sum this up with a quote from Earnest Hemmingway: "Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime."

[yee-haw]

So haw, you're fine with racist jokes, but keep the military ones out of it!

If you can't laugh about it it's not worth taking seriously.

Just sensative subject to me..but point well taken

[1stoic1]

Yee-haw, I would ask you why you are offended by that sticker, but this:


It would be the same as riding thru Atlanta with a kkk bumper sticker.


..uncovers the issue at hand. You appear to be confused, because accurately describing what the military entails is nothing like promenading the trademark of a bigoted organization among the people that that organization has infamously persecuted.

[Patt]

"Let someone else get killed!"
"Suppose everyone on our side felt that way?"
"Well then I'd certainly be a damned fool to feel any other way, wouldn't I?"
"Englishmen are dying for England, American's are dying for America, Germans are dying for Germany, Russians are dying for Russia. There are now fifty or sixty countries fighting in this war. Surely so many countries can all be worth dying for?"
"Anything worth living for," said Nately, "is worth dying for."
"And anything worth dying for," answered the old man, "is certainly worth living for."

Joseph Heller
Catch 22

Let that irony sink in for a bit Stoic, Phoenix and Carrot.

[yee-haw]

Yee-haw, I would ask you why you are offended by that sticker, but this:



..uncovers the issue at hand. You appear to be confused, because accurately describing what the military entails is nothing like promenading the trademark of a bigoted organization among the people that that organization has infamously persecuted.


Ok, What exactly are you getting at?
I served my country and done so with dignity and would die for it if need be...
So how does the quote explain anything... How do you not find it totaly ignorant yourself, Are you an american...Are you free?
Or are you another who reeps the benefits of our sacrifices then bitches and complains because the guy next door makes more money and has a better house than you?

Get fucking real dude!

[yee-haw]

So haw, you're fine with racist jokes, but keep the military ones out of it!

If you can't laugh about it it's not worth taking seriously.
It aint a joke.. it's a flat out fuck you from this guy to the ones who defend is moronic ass...imo!

[1stoic1]

Ok, What exactly are you getting at?
I served my country and done so with dignity and would die for it if need be...
So how does the quote explain anything...

The quote explains that you are perceiving the bumper sticker wrongly, because it is nothing like a KKK bumper sticker. This should resolve most, if not all, of the offense you were experiencing.


How do you not find it totaly ignorant yourself, Are you an american...Are you free?

I don't find it totally ignorant because it depicts the military accurately - you do kill people in other countries.


Or are you another who reeps the benefits of our sacrifices then bitches and complains because the guy next door makes more money and has a better house than you?

Get fucking real dude!

I'm not sure why people in this thread, and elsewhere, are equating everything the military does with preserving freedom, but it is plainly erroneous. That's like defending police brutality because "they are protecting and serving us!"

[Limbo]

It aint a joke.. it's a flat out fuck you from this guy to the ones who defend is moronic ass...imo!

True, it is clear that it was never intended to be a joke, but a political statement.

Besides, it's a free country and you have every right to tell this guy that you think he is a mindless asshole.

[yee-haw]

True, it is clear that it was never intended to be a joke, but a political statement.

Besides, it's a free country and you have every right to tell this guy that you think he is a mindless asshole.

I approve of this post!


I don't find it totally ignorant because it depicts the military accurately - you do kill people in other countries.

1stoic1, You're entitled to your own opinion... But i think you'll find most americans with half a brain will disagree with your opinion.
You would think different if the flew a plane or a rocket up your ass, There will always be casulties in war.. However to be passive on situations that must be handled is ignorant.

9/11 proved that... If i seen the guy again i still would offer him nothing more than a middle finger.

...also i was'nt being racist, It was an example of other types of ignorance and stupidity.

[Carrot]

"Let someone else get killed!"
"Suppose everyone on our side felt that way?"
"Well then I'd certainly be a damned fool to feel any other way, wouldn't I?"
"Englishmen are dying for England, American's are dying for America, Germans are dying for Germany, Russians are dying for Russia. There are now fifty or sixty countries fighting in this war. Surely so many countries can all be worth dying for?"
"Anything worth living for," said Nately, "is worth dying for."
"And anything worth dying for," answered the old man, "is certainly worth living for."

Joseph Heller
Catch 22

Let that irony sink in for a bit Stoic, Phoenix and Carrot.

Not much to sink in, because it doesn't refute anythign I've said. Even if every single war WAS purely for "freedom and liberty" it would still work.

If you havn't seen my point yet, you never will.

[Patt]

Not much to sink in, because it doesn't refute anythign I've said. Even if every single war WAS purely for "freedom and liberty" it would still work.

If you havn't seen my point yet, you never will.

Well then, you actually do get my point, after all. War is indeed a Catch 22 - as not everyone will always agree as to the best course of action in any conflict that arises. In your very own words - If you haven't seen my point yet, you never will. Meaning of course, that people don't always agree on the subject of war. The debate will always rage on.

[yee-haw]

My point is this guy was not of a foriegn orgin, He was american and able to be the douche he is because of our service men and women.
I just found it offensive for many reasons...this being one.

[1stoic1]

1stoic1, You're entitled to your own opinion... But i think you'll find most americans with half a brain will disagree with your opinion.

Even if that were true, it would be irrelevant because I don't subscribe to argumentum ad populum, and neither should anyone else.


You would think different if the flew a plane or a rocket up your ass,

No, I wouldn't


There will always be casulties in war.. However to be passive on situations that must be handled is ignorant.

Invading countries in brute fashion isn't handling the situation, at least not with any finesse and decency.


...also i was'nt being racist, It was an example of other types of ignorance and stupidity.

I didn't accuse you of being racist, I accused of you misapprehending the bumper sticker due to your faulty analogy.


My point is this guy was not of a foriegn orgin, He was american and able to be the douche he is because of our service men and women.
I just found it offensive for many reasons...this being one.

Do you have any evidence supporting your claim that the current actions of our service men and women are maintaining our liberty, and that it would be lost if they were to cease what they are doing?

Also, is there any limit as to what you would do to preserve your liberty? I'd rather live oppressed than stoop to diabolical tactics.

[yee-haw]

Do you have any evidence supporting your claim that the current actions of our service men and women are maintaining our liberty, and that it would be lost if they were to cease what they are doing?.

You're free aint ya?

[1stoic1]

You're free aint ya?

That doesn't mean there is a casual relation between what they are doing and our present freedom, this is a fallacy.

[yee-haw]

That doesn't mean there is a casual relation between what they are doing and our present freedom, this is a fallacy.

How do you see it as a fallacy, It's all about freedom?
Please explain?

Do you want to fight tyranny there or would you rather they kick your door in, I'm confused by your stand-point and way of thinking... Are you an american?

[1stoic1]

How do you see it as a fallacy, It's all about freedom?
Please explain?

It is a fallacy of false cause or non sequitur. Our freedom does not necessarily follow the actions of our military, like the sun rising doesn't necessarily follow a rooster's crowing. You have to show how our freedom hinges on what our military is doing.

[yee-haw]

It is a fallacy of false cause or non sequitur. Our freedom does not necessarily follow the actions of our military, like the sun rising doesn't necessarily follow a rooster's crowing. You have to show how our freedom hinges on what our military is doing.

Well maybe we're mis-understanding one another?
I just found the sticker he was sporting offensive due to the fact our military is not in the business of killing but for freedom and non oppressive behavior.
If we have to kill or be killed, I prefer the first... In the name of protection of course.

I mean you can't honestly think the depiction of our soldiers are plain old killers and nothing more... I know that's not what you're saying but you're teetering on a very fine line of we are just murders, The way i'm getting it?

[Patt]

I'd rather live oppressed than stoop to diabolical tactics.

That in a nutshell is why you disagree with most of the American public. Diabolical tactics can be overthrown almost immediately; oppression lasts.

If you were to live under an oppressive regime, you'd then call the American Soldier to bail your ass out.

[yee-haw]

if you were to live under an oppressive regime, you'd then call the american soldier to bail your ass out.


...amen!!!!!!!!!!

[1stoic1]

Well maybe we're mis-understanding one another?
I just found the sticker he was sporting offensive due to the fact our military is not in the business of killing but for freedom and non oppressive behavior.

Orginazations don't always adhere to their proclaimed principles.


If we have to kill or be killed, I prefer the first... In the name of protection of course.

I support self-defense, but a large scale invasion of a country and amassing civilian devastation is hardly self-defense.


I mean you can't honestly think the depiction of our soldiers are plain old killers and nothing more... I know that's not what you're saying but you're teetering on a very fine line of we are just murders, The way i'm getting it?

Not necessarily, but I would depict most of them as inconsiderate and irresponsible at the very least.

[1stoic1]

If you were to live under an oppressive regime, you'd then call the American Soldier to bail your ass out.

Not at the expense of innocent people dieing.

[yee-haw]

Orginazations don't always adhere to their proclaimed principles.



I support self-defense, but a large scale invasion of a country and amassing civilian devastation is hardly self-defense.



Not necessarily, but I would depict most of them as inconsiderate and irresponsible at the very least.

It appears that you and i are just going to have to agree to disagree, I see some minor points you make but the way you view it "If you're an american" is flawed in my eyes.

[Patt]

Not at the expense of innocent people dieing.

Cry me a river, sunshine. If you'd ever be in a place where YOUR life depended on killing another - you'd die, right?

Probably - and, if that's the case --- if you know English slang --- do me a favor....

[1stoic1]

Cry me a river, sunshine. If you'd ever be in a place where YOUR life depended on killing another - you'd die, right?


Does that person pose the fatal threat? If not, then of course I'd die before killing them. Why should I place more value on my life over their's? Are you saying that you would do such a thing?

[Patt]

Does that person pose the fatal threat? If not, then of course I'd die before killing them. Why should I place more value on my life over their's? Are you saying that you would do such a thing?

What was the premise - did you misunderstand it? Don't try and quantify it - you don't have that time - it's a split second reaction - your life or theirs - decide. NOW. They won't tell you whether or not their a fatal threat to you. This isn't the UN - it's life or death.

YOUR life depends on killing another.

You tell me - what do you do?

[1stoic1]

What was the premise - did you misunderstand it? Don't try and quantify it - you don't have that time - it's a split second reaction - your life or theirs - decide. NOW. They won't tell you whether or not their a fatal threat to you. This isn't the UN - it's life or death.

YOUR life depends on killing another.

You tell me - what do you do?

Your scenerio doesn't make sense. Am I blind? Can I not see if they are holding a gun, knife, or possess some other means to harm me with an intent to use it? If they are just standing there, then no, I wouldn't.

[LedZap]

Deflection . Typical liberal.

[1stoic1]

Deflection . Typical liberal.

I clearly answered. Are you just trolling?

[Patt]

Deflection . Typical liberal.

Exactly - can't answer because they need to quantify this that or the other before they make a decision.


I clearly answered. Are you just trolling?

Guess what Stoic - you didn't answer clearly - you answered with more questions - in doing so............

BANG BANG - you're dead. You've lost your life because you can't crucial make decisions when it's nut cutting time.

And, it no longer matters what your questions were - YOU didn't act in your own best interest - YOU died.

Case Closed.

[LedZap]

I clearly answered. Are you just trolling?

Just making an observation . You got a problem with that ?

[yee-haw]

Your scenerio doesn't make sense. Am I blind? Can I not see if they are holding a gun, knife, or possess some other means to harm me with an intent to use it? If they are just standing there, then no, I wouldn't.

Yea, Ev eryone saw the box cutters and fake dynamite they brought aboard the planes...

[Carrot]

That in a nutshell is why you disagree with most of the American public. Diabolical tactics can be overthrown almost immediately; oppression lasts.

If you were to live under an oppressive regime, you'd then call the American Soldier to bail your ass out.

Yeah, shame we/you don't go places where we are desperately needed, being asked for by both the government and the population.

Say...uganda for instance.

Nope, we go where the general population doesn't really like us (along with the rest of the region/religion), where there's some form of infastructure which gets destoyed, oil, and non-existand WMDs.

[Rec]

Yeah, shame we/you don't go places where we are desperately needed, being asked for by both the government and the population.

Say...uganda for instance.

Nope, we go where the general population doesn't really like us (along with the rest of the region/religion), where there's some form of infastructure which gets destoyed, oil, and non-existand WMDs.




Yeah, right, and notice that England is not there either! hmmmmmmmmmmm

[Carrot]

Yeah, right, and notice that England is not there either! hmmmmmmmmmmm

Breaking down my previous post into pronouns(?)

...we/you...we...we....us....

[1stoic1]

Exactly - can't answer because they need to quantify this that or the other before they make a decision.

Why do you promote making imprudent decisions?


Guess what Stoic - you didn't answer clearly - you answered with more questions - in doing so............

I did answer clearly, and I will reiterate: I would not kill an innocent person to save my own life. What trouble are you having in understanding that answer?


BANG BANG - you're dead. You've lost your life because you can't crucial make decisions when it's nut cutting time.

The life of another person is saved, and you see it as a failure to make a crucial decision?


And, it no longer matters what your questions were - YOU didn't act in your own best interest - YOU died.

Case Closed.

Why should I put my own best interest ahead of others'? Are you honestly content with being among the selfish riffraff of mankind?




Just making an observation . You got a problem with that ?

Yes, unfounded snide remarks within an otherwise civil and constructive discussion is a problem.




Yea, Ev eryone saw the box cutters and fake dynamite they brought aboard the planes...

So I should assume everyone is a threat and kill them?

[yee-haw]

1stoic1, I never said kill everyone... you have trouble understand simple points dont you?

[1stoic1]

1stoic1, I never said kill everyone... you have trouble understand simple points dont you?

No, you seem to have trouble making simple points. Why did you reference the 9-11 terrorists in response to what I said about observing threats? It seems you were saying that threats can't always be observed, and that's fine, but how does that prescibe a course of action? It doesn't, unless you are to kill everyone and eliminate all possible threats. Either it was irrelevant, or it was an asinine prescription.

[yee-haw]

No, you seem to have trouble making simple points. Why did you reference the 9-11 terrorists in response to what I said about observing threats? It seems you were saying that threats can't always be observed, and that's fine, but how does that prescibe a course of action? It doesn't, unless you are to kill everyone and eliminate all possible threats. Either it was irrelevant, or it was an asinine prescription.


My point is this.. i made an example towrds a bumper sticker, You disagreed with my example.
I'm simply saying i found the one bumpersticker offensive because i believe our military is to protect.. I don't thik their agenda is to just kill.
I used 9/11 for an example because no one saw a threat..that's the point but now after the fact people pay closer attention.
I'm not really sure why you think i'm wrong about this ..it's only my opinion but that opinion seems to be shared by the majority.

Now where exactly are you and i straying at?

[1stoic1]

I used 9/11 for an example because no one saw a threat..that's the point but now after the fact people pay closer attention.
I'm not really sure why you think i'm wrong about this ..it's only my opinion but that opinion seems to be shared by the majority.

Now where exactly are you and i straying at?

The problem is that you responded to one of my posts that was addressing Patt's hypothetical. I said I wouldn't kill someone who doesn't pose a threat, and then you responded that the 9-11 terrorists didn't initially pose a threat either. This is where the confusion is.

[Patt]

The problem is that you responded to one of my posts that was addressing Patt's hypothetical. I said I wouldn't kill someone who doesn't pose a threat, and then you responded that the 9-11 terrorists didn't initially pose a threat either. This is where the confusion is.

Haw's right, you know. On the morning of September 11th, 2001, no one thought that those men who entered those planes and went through the flight attendant dance that's done prior to take off were any threat whatsoever.

Complacency was indeed the problem.

Your assumption that everyone in the world is going to be loving and caring isn't reality. Consequently, chances are, you'll encounter people that aren't anything other than ruthless and your complacency in that regard is not going to be to your benefit. You won't have time to make qualifications to the situation, you'll either have to react or you'll be in dire circumstances and could ultimately end up dead at the hands of someone who's NOT innocent.

Here's hoping you take off the blinders and prepare BEFORE it happens. Think Ennis Cosby.

[1stoic1]

Haw's right, you know. On the morning of September 11th, 2001, no one thought that those men who entered those planes and went through the flight attendant dance that's done prior to take off were any threat whatsoever.

Complacency was indeed the problem.

I am not disputing that, it just isn't congruent with the discussion actually being had - your hypothetical question, and my response.


Your assumption that everyone in the world is going to be loving and caring isn't reality.

Where specifically did I make such an assumption?


Consequently, chances are, you'll encounter people that aren't anything other than ruthless and your complacency in that regard is not going to be to your benefit. You won't have time to make qualifications to the situation, you'll either have to react or you'll be in dire circumstances and could ultimately end up dead at the hands of someone who's NOT innocent.

Here's hoping you take off the blinders and prepare BEFORE it happens. Think Ennis Cosby.

I don't know about your deductive reasoning, but it doesn't take me much time to determine whether or not I'm being attacked by someone.

[Patt]

You're going to have to come out of your linear thought patterns, Stoic. No wonder you have problems communicating with people here. Seems to me you're lacking imagination and the ability to think outside the box.

Linear


Something, call it ‘X,’ is a minor problem.
X occurs 10 times over a span of time.
X + X + X + X + X + X + X + X + X + X = a BIG problem where ‘X’ is concerned

Non-linear


Something, call it ‘X,’ is a minor problem.
X occurs 10 times over a span of time.
X & X & X & X & X & X & X & X & X & X = a definite pattern involving ‘X’

Non-linear thinker wonders why linear thinker is having a cow about something so minor. Linear thinker sees the insurmountable reality of non-linear thinker’s pattern. True ten times over is still (just) true; so linear thinker can acknowledge the truth (pattern) and climb mountains. Ten rungs in a ladder is a fairly tall structure–if it’s standing upright, but only the height of a single rung if it’s lying down; so non-linear thinker can see both perspectives and help the other climb down.

[yee-haw]

The problem is that you responded to one of my posts that was addressing Patt's hypothetical. I said I wouldn't kill someone who doesn't pose a threat, and then you responded that the 9-11 terrorists didn't initially pose a threat either. This is where the confusion is.

Ok, Makes a bit more sense now... was'nt real sure how the conversation got to this point.
Thanks for clearing that up.

[yee-haw]

Complacency was indeed the problem.- Posted by Patt


Exactly, Thanks for putting a finger on that because it was a very serious problem.

[Patt]

IS - it IS a serious problem and will continue to be as long as people try and deflect us from the threat that actually exists with Radical Islam. The very non-use, as advocated by the Obama Administration, of the term Radical Islam is a part of that complacency.

They may try and remove the words, but they won't be able to remove the threat by doing so. Consequently, we should quash that PC bullshit that's beginning to be pervasive in the DoJ and in Homeland Security. I'm already sick of Holder and Napalatano.

We need a shakeup in DC - Holder, Napalatano and Geithner need to GO GO GO AWAY. If we're stuck with Obama until 2012, he shouldn't subject us to these worthless heads of agencies that are critical to our national recovery.

[1stoic1]

You're going to have to come out of your linear thought patterns, Stoic. No wonder you have problems communicating with people here. Seems to me you're lacking imagination and the ability to think outside the box.

Linear


Something, call it ‘X,’ is a minor problem.
X occurs 10 times over a span of time.
X + X + X + X + X + X + X + X + X + X = a BIG problem where ‘X’ is concerned

Non-linear


Something, call it ‘X,’ is a minor problem.
X occurs 10 times over a span of time.
X & X & X & X & X & X & X & X & X & X = a definite pattern involving ‘X’

Non-linear thinker wonders why linear thinker is having a cow about something so minor. Linear thinker sees the insurmountable reality of non-linear thinker’s pattern. True ten times over is still (just) true; so linear thinker can acknowledge the truth (pattern) and climb mountains. Ten rungs in a ladder is a fairly tall structure–if it’s standing upright, but only the height of a single rung if it’s lying down; so non-linear thinker can see both perspectives and help the other climb down.

How does any of that relate to this conversation? I don't see the connection.

[LedZap]

WHOOSH .... right over your head.

[Patt]

http://i852.photobucket.com/albums/ab89/patteurope/LG%20Smileys/96.gif http://i852.photobucket.com/albums/ab89/patteurope/LG%20Smileys/clapping.gif http://i852.photobucket.com/albums/ab89/patteurope/LG%20Smileys/96.gif

Naturally !

[1stoic1]

WHOOSH .... right over your head.

Perhaps you could explain how it relates then, or do you have no interest in contributing to the discussions on this board?

A brief review:

Patt: Would you kill someone if your life depended on it?

Me: No.

Patt: You're not thinking outside of the box!

As it stands, Patt's response is of no use to a very clear-cut question\answer.

[Patt]

Stoic - anyone with eyes and the ability to click knows that's NOT what was said.

If you're going to try and fabricate evidence, at least try and be creative. http://i852.photobucket.com/albums/ab89/patteurope/LG%20Smileys/AngryNO.gif

[1stoic1]

Stoic - anyone with eyes and the ability to click knows that's NOT what was said.


That is the essential gist of it, everything else is impertinent baggage. However, I can summarize that as well:


Me: I would not kill the person if they aren't threatening me.

Patt: You don't know anything about the person, you don't have time to think about anything! BANG BANG

...something ridiculous along those lines.

[Rec]

Conclusion from the non-linear head of Stoic,,,,,,ridiculous impertinent baggage....Awwww don't be so hard on yourself Stoic!!!! lol

[Patt]

Stoic doesn't have much of a handle on how to communicate effectively. I'm thinking there's a medical reason as to the infarction; however, not knowing Stoic personally, I have no evidence to prove that point.

At this juncture - I'm beginning to feel pity for the poor lost soul.

[Patt]

That is the essential gist of it, everything else is impertinent baggage. However, I can summarize that as well:


Me: I would not kill the person if they aren't threatening me.

Patt: You don't know anything about the person, you don't have time to think about anything! BANG BANG

...something ridiculous along those lines.

That wasn't creative at all - you can do better - push yourself. I believe in you. :D

Here - let me help with your inability to comprehend --- in the original premise - they were threatening you. Otherwise, there wouldn't be a confrontation scenario --- dumb ass. Through your posturing, you tried to turn it into a non confrontational situation - which it never was - it was life or death and you blinked. Consequently, they shot you and you died. EPIC FATAL FAIL.

If you'd ever be in a place where YOUR life depended on killing another - you'd die, right?

[1stoic1]

Here - let me help with your inability to comprehend --- in the original premise - they were threatening you. Otherwise, there wouldn't be a confrontation scenario --- dumb ass.

1. You refused to "quantify" the original premise, remember? I couldn't concern myself with whether the person was a threat or not, remember? Your hypothetical question emanated from my statement of not wanting to be saved at the cost of dieing innocents, is any of this reminiscent? You are back-pedalling now.

2. My answer was provisioned to cover if they were threatening me, and you are either willfully or ignorantly negating that fact. I also explicitly stated in this thread that I support self-defense.

3. The person does not have to be threatening me for there to be a confrontation, you aren't very imaginative. There could be a third person with a gun demanding that we choose who dies among the second person and I - to which I would volunteer myself. Or the two of us could be stuck in a disaster, with only the means for one of us to survive. There is a plethora of scenerios, and your refusal to quantify your own hypothetical left it open to be anything.


If you'd ever be in a place where YOUR life depended on killing another - you'd die, right?




I'll say again, and hopefully you will understand it this time: I would die if the person isn't the one posing the fatal threat upon me. Otherwise, I would defend myself.

[1stoic1]

Stoic doesn't have much of a handle on how to communicate effectively.

How so? Please be precise and show evidence.

[Rec]

Stoic doesn't have much of a handle on how to communicate effectively. I'm thinking there's a medical reason as to the infarction; however, not knowing Stoic personally, I have no evidence to prove that point.

At this juncture - I'm beginning to feel pity for the poor lost soul.


There is an old time tried adage apropo here,,,,something about the more one stirs,,,,,,the more one...........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA You have far more patience for sheer obtuseness than I, Patt!!! lol

[Patt]

How so? Please be precise and show evidence.

Could you be any more arrogant? I mean - REALLY. I don't answer to you Jack-O. Did you know that? Well, if NOT, then you certainly do now.

Please be precise and show evidence - as if I'm in a fucking classroom and you're my teacher ????

Get real, dude - LMAO

[Patt]

yadda yadda yadda

If you'd ever be in a place where YOUR life depended on killing another - you'd die, right?

No quantification necessary there teach. The question is, on it's face, a statement indicating a life or death situation.

It isn't my fault if you're too thick to get it.

My suggestion - the kiddy pool. You're drowning out here with the adults.

Which, all in all, might not be a bad thing, come to think about it........ LOL

[1stoic1]

Could you be any more arrogant? I mean - REALLY. I don't answer to you Jack-O. Did you know that? Well, if NOT, then you certainly do now.

Please be precise and show evidence - as if I'm in a fucking classroom and you're my teacher ????

Get real, dude - LMAO

How is it arrogant to politely ask for something? You have a strange outlook. If you don't like being ask for precise explanations and evidence, then maybe you should avoid discourse.

[1stoic1]

If you'd ever be in a place where YOUR life depended on killing another - you'd die, right?



It appears you still don't understand the answer. That is unfortunate, and I'm not sure how to help you.

[Patt]

It appears you still don't understand the answer. That is unfortunate, and I'm not sure how to help you.

I haven't any problem whatsoever. You however, if ever in a life and death situation, will try to figure out what's actually going on and at least 15 other goofy shit things all in the time span that the other person just gets, like me, sick of your foolishness, and pops a cap in your ass.

[Patt]

How is it arrogant to politely ask for something? You have a strange outlook. If you don't like being ask for precise explanations and evidence, then maybe you should avoid discourse.

Politely ask versus demand. Let me weigh that a bit.................... ;)

Nope - you lose. The balance falls on the side of pompous and demanding.

Yet another in a long, long line of your growing record of being unable to discuss any subject with any other poster without falling prey to linear thought and outright childishness.

[1stoic1]

I haven't any problem whatsoever. You however, if ever in a life and death situation, will try to figure out what's actually going on and at least 15 other goofy shit things all in the time span that the other person just gets, like me, sick of your foolishness, and pops a cap in your ass.

Hopefully you aren't a police officer, military personnel, or anything else that yields lethal weapons. That would be an embarrassing detriment to society.

[Patt]

Hopefully you aren't a police officer, military personnel, or anything else that yields lethal weapons. That would be an embarrassing detriment to society.

Boy oh Boy are YOU in for a surprise - LMAO

So for my posting friends who wonder just why I put up with you and your inane crap, here's my answer.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2pUe8FiHFA

[1stoic1]

Politely ask versus demand. Let me weigh that a bit.................... ;)

Nope - you lose. The balance falls on the side of pompous and demanding.

How exactly did I demand anything? I hope this impairment of your reading comprehension is only temporary.

[Patt]

How exactly did I demand anything? I hope this impairment of your reading comprehension is only temporary.
[/QUOTE]

Must be a problem for you being so needy.

[Carrot]

1. You refused to "quantify" the original premise, remember? I couldn't concern myself with whether the person was a threat or not, remember? Your hypothetical question emanated from my statement of not wanting to be saved at the cost of dieing innocents, is any of this reminiscent? You are back-pedalling now.

2. My answer was provisioned to cover if they were threatening me, and you are either willfully or ignorantly negating that fact. I also explicitly stated in this thread that I support self-defense.

3. The person does not have to be threatening me for there to be a confrontation, you aren't very imaginative. There could be a third person with a gun demanding that we choose who dies among the second person and I - to which I would volunteer myself. Or the two of us could be stuck in a disaster, with only the means for one of us to survive. There is a plethora of scenerios, and your refusal to quantify your own hypothetical left it open to be anything.



I'll say again, and hopefully you will understand it this time: I would die if the person isn't the one posing the fatal threat upon me. Otherwise, I would defend myself.

Well put.

The internet warriors have gotten a bit carried away.

[Patt]

Exercise in futility - typical, right? Welcome to the interwebs, Carrot. :D

[yee-haw]

I is not internet warrior, I is destroyer of beer!

[Carrot]

Exercise in futility - typical, right? Welcome to the interwebs, Carrot. :D

Well no, i think he has quite clearly answered your save yourself scenario, yet you continue nagging him for reasons I can't see other than annoyance.

[Patt]

Well no, i think he has quite clearly answered your save yourself scenario, yet you continue nagging him for reasons I can't see other than annoyance.

Hey - you've played whack a mole before, I'm sure. I was wasting some time - ya caught me. :D

[yee-haw]

What's wrong with whack a troll, I mean whack-a-mole?

[DragonHeart95]

"Join the army, Visit exotic places then kill the people there"

i say thats a real @$$hole bumper sticker and he's an id10t :) lol and you were right to flip him off

[yee-haw]

i say thats a real @$$hole bumper sticker and he's an id10t :) lol and you were right to flip him off

Yea.. real dumbass in my opinion..


By the way welcome to the board.

[D.C.Rage]

War sucks. Plain and simple. You know what sucks more than war? Living in a place where just stating that opinion is not an option. The guy was an idiot and an idealist living in a dreamland that doesn't exist. If we don't visit those 'foriegn lands and kill people there' guess what happens? Yeah, they visit foriegn lands and kill US. Simple logic. Welcome to reality. It often sucks, but ya just gotta put on your big kid panties and deal with it, cause if you don't---it WILL deal with you!

[beelzebub]

Yea.. real dumbass in my opinion...

I am glad this post was bumped back up. I wanted to comment the first time around but was hesitant. I didn't want to offend ya know...

Haw,.. while I understand (and agree with) your opinion on this issue. I think you should not address this next time. There are other,... more productive ways ... less hazardous ways,... to address these social issues.

I am NOT saying you should not address issues that come up in regular discourse with friends and family.. of course you should. Even if you find yourself in some other venue conducive to such.

Nuts like that asshat put shit on their bumper just to draw attention and given your reception its no surprise. They feed of that shit. You saw the result. They love it. You just encouraged and reaffirmed that.

Those are the ones that are looking for an opportunity for a fight. The best thing to do is DENY them of it. I am sure you can tell what I am referencing.

I would like to see you continue to contribute but that kind of behavior will get you killed. You have kids too.

Think of how many you reach JUST HERE.

[hitekredneck]

wow i missed this one, so i'll try to adress the points that caught my attention:
haw, ya shouldn't even be bothered by this....ya can't beat stupid or ignorance out of people unless ya kill em....remember that words only have the power we give em to bother us
stoic, you cannot say what you would do in any given situation unless you've experienced it or have been trained in it....as a human being, you are hard-wired for survival like any other animal or life form, and i think you'ld be surprised at yourself with what you would do to continue breathing....as for haw's analogy of a kkk sticker in atlanta, i understood it perfectly....he wasn't talkin bout what the stickers said and that they were related, more of the emotion and anger they both evoke.

war sucks, and is hard regardless of the reason, but is necessary in certain situations. at this time, i sense the bammer administration gearing up to get involved with libya....i don't like that thought, as we are already struggling to fight in afghanistan, not to mention i feel that fight is more of a civil war that we have no business interfering with. too often we get wrapped up playing referee in situations like this and it bites us in the ass every time.

[sunny]

I wonder if camel wash is the same as donkey wash.....


Inquiring minds just wanna know!


hmmm.... I think one must be worse than the other.

[DragonHeart95]

By the way welcome to the board.

thanks :) glad to be here

[beelzebub]

I wonder if camel wash is the same as donkey wash.....
Inquiring minds just wanna know!.

LOL I could go into detail on this but wont LOL

[yee-haw]

wow i missed this one, so i'll try to adress the points that caught my attention:
haw, ya shouldn't even be bothered by this....ya can't beat stupid or ignorance out of people unless ya kill em....remember that words only have the power we give em to bother us
stoic, you cannot say what you would do in any given situation unless you've experienced it or have been trained in it....as a human being, you are hard-wired for survival like any other animal or life form, and i think you'ld be surprised at yourself with what you would do to continue breathing....as for haw's analogy of a kkk sticker in atlanta, i understood it perfectly....he wasn't talkin bout what the stickers said and that they were related, more of the emotion and anger they both evoke.

war sucks, and is hard regardless of the reason, but is necessary in certain situations. at this time, i sense the bammer administration gearing up to get involved with libya....i don't like that thought, as we are already struggling to fight in afghanistan, not to mention i feel that fight is more of a civil war that we have no business interfering with. too often we get wrapped up playing referee in situations like this and it bites us in the ass every time.

Well thought out and on spot tek.

[D.C.Rage]

wow i missed this one, so i'll try to adress the points that caught my attention:
haw, ya shouldn't even be bothered by this....ya can't beat stupid or ignorance out of people unless ya kill em....remember that words only have the power we give em to bother us
stoic, you cannot say what you would do in any given situation unless you've experienced it or have been trained in it....as a human being, you are hard-wired for survival like any other animal or life form, and i think you'ld be surprised at yourself with what you would do to continue breathing....as for haw's analogy of a kkk sticker in atlanta, i understood it perfectly....he wasn't talkin bout what the stickers said and that they were related, more of the emotion and anger they both evoke.

war sucks, and is hard regardless of the reason, but is necessary in certain situations. at this time, i sense the bammer administration gearing up to get involved with libya....i don't like that thought, as we are already struggling to fight in afghanistan, not to mention i feel that fight is more of a civil war that we have no business interfering with. too often we get wrapped up playing referee in situations like this and it bites us in the ass every time.


I agree with you. The mess with Libya is gonna get ugly. I don't like it at all.

[Phoenix]

War sucks. Plain and simple. You know what sucks more than war? Living in a place where just stating that opinion is not an option. The guy was an idiot and an idealist living in a dreamland that doesn't exist. If we don't visit those 'foriegn lands and kill people there' guess what happens? Yeah, they visit foriegn lands and kill US. Simple logic. Welcome to reality. It often sucks, but ya just gotta put on your big kid panties and deal with it, cause if you don't---it WILL deal with you!

That's what the Nazis thought when they felt the need to invade half of Europe to kill off all the "hostile" Jews. Problem is that we don't have a military for defence, we have a military for empire building. If we didn't have US military bases in damn near every country in the world, or Washington-paid dictators, then I'd agree with you and haw, but so long as we have a fucking empire, no. And don't even try to tell me that just because we don't go out and announce it, we don't have an empire, because by that logic, neither was this:
http://wapedia.mobi/thumb/9ac5499/en/fixed/470/502/EasternBlocAfter.png?format=jpg
Now that's no excuse to pull the same shit that happened after the Vietnam War, but it is an excuse to beat the living shit out of our Commander-in-Chief and put a sensible one in.

It's also not an excuse to completely disband our military; it is a necessary evil.

[D.C.Rage]

It's also not an excuse to completely disband our military; it is a necessary evil.[/QUOTE]

Disband our military? You mean cut off our nose to spite our face? Disbanding the military would be catastrophic... then what do we do when the crap comes to our borders? The military isn't perfect, the government isn't perfect, and heaven knows there's no such thing as a perfect politician, but the military DOES defend our borders and acts (at least in part) with the intent of securing our freedoms. There is no such thing as a perfect system, due in large part to the fact that they are run by human beings. Humans tend to make mistakes and sometimes have bad judgement. When your options include either moving forward or getting run over, I opt for moving forward.