Research confirms 'gay gene' discovery

[freakazoid]

Research confirms 'gay gene' discovery...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/research-confirms-gay-gene-discovery-1580244.html

PERFECT! We can now identify sodomites in the womb and abort them before they cause problems for society.

** Benefits:

- Drastically reduce the AIDS epidemic.

- No more worries about so-called "gay rights." (They have more rights than others? I did not know that).

- Empty out "gay bars" and "gay bath houses" (also reducing the spread of AIDS) which will help to restore the community to a higher standard of quality, living and safety.

- Reduce the amount of cops that we need to pay for who have to patrol gay pickup locations.

- Our children can go to school without being indoctrinated (against the will of their parents and the community) into accepting homosexuality as an "alternative life style."

- No more disgusting "gay rights" parades in Disneyland or The Magic Kingdom in Orlando. (I'm not sure, but I don't think Mickey Mouse was a sodomite or a supporter of same).

- No more need for the mindless and sick "don't ask, don't tell" doctrine in the Military.

Gay abortion! I am for it! Since sodomites love abortion so much LETS GET THE JOB DONE!!

Of course, there are those that understand that the "gay gene" is pure bullshit (let's hope they're wrong)...

http://www.trueorigin.org/gaygene01.asp

http://www.narth.com/docs/mythgene.html

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/tabor/050216

hi beelzebub

[freakazoid]

All comments welcome to post above.


hi beelzebub

[AceTracer]

Sorry freak, but I think everyone has finally learned that it's best not to feed the troll.

On the bright side, unlike the folks you're trying to troll bait, I don't have you on ignore. So at least I *see* the trolly things you write. I hope that makes you feel better and not quite as neglected.

[freakazoid]

Sorry freak, but I think everyone has finally learned that it's best not to feed the troll.

On the bright side, unlike the folks you're trying to troll bait, I don't have you on ignore. So at least I *see* the trolly things you write. I hope that makes you feel better and not quite as neglected.

Post a comment, dude. No need for the troll nonsense. It would seem to me that you are missing the point entirely. So, I'll explain it. It's the self serving nature of people like beelzebub and his homosexual friends. Get it now?

Troll? Sorry, not going for it. Baiting? Sorry, not going for it. Everyone posts with the idea that people will read and respond to what they post. Do you not? Are you a troll for doing so?

[LedZap]

I get this "troll" shit from ace every time he loses a debate.

[freakazoid]

I get this "troll" shit from ace every time he loses a debate.

Labeling people a "troll" is a nice way of trying to invalidate what they post. To me, one of the attributes of a troll is that they post material that they don't believe in or have an interest in, something that is in hot debate, and are only looking for a reaction from the forum. More or less a "practical joke" on everyone designed to cause problems.

What I am posting, whether a member agrees or disagrees, is to make a valid point; that is the hypocrisy of gays and their support of abortion. I guess AceTracer couldn't get it.

[AceTracer]

I get this "troll" shit from ace every time he loses a debate.
You're welcome to think that if it makes you feel better.

Trolling is the act of purposely antagonizing other people, simply to get a reaction out of them. You have on occasion posted things that are clearly false, or defended a position that is clearly indefensible, or post things that you don't even believe simply because I held the opposite position and you wanted to argue for the fun of it. I'll admit though that what you do is right on the line between trolling and playing devil's advocate, and it's more of the latter than the former.

On the other hand, freak's threads are almost entirely troll bait. I don't even believe that he believes most of the stuff he posts, he just does it to get a rise out of people, or probably just for the attention. And I felt a little bad for him that no one had taken the bait yet, so I wanted to let him know that I still read his posts, even if most of the people he intends them for don't.

[AceTracer]

For the record, I think some current and former liberal members of this forum troll a lot too. I won't name names but I'm sure you know who all I'm talking about.

[LedZap]

"purposely antagonizing other people" describes almost every thread you've started here.

[AceTracer]

"purposely antagonizing other people" describes almost every thread you've started here.
That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I intend my threads to either refute/debunk common misconceptions, or post things I find personally interesting.

I can see how you would think so though, because I post unpopular opinions on a mostly conservative forum. However, I don't post things simply to antagonize people. I'm truly interested in a civil discussion, and try to get the opinion of the opposition. That's something I can't do in a liberal forum, which is why I've always said I'm here to begin with. I certainly don't call for the death of anyone I disagree with, and I won't disagree with someone simply to disagree with them.

If I think that you honestly disagree with me, and have valid points to support your argument to the contrary, I'm happy to continue the debate. If you decide to be combative simply to be contrarian, start to attack me personally or anything about me, or continue an opposing argument after I've clearly disproven it, again just to be contrarian, then I'll no longer continue the discussion. And that has happened a few times with you.

[freakazoid]

You're welcome to think that if it makes you feel better.

Trolling is the act of purposely antagonizing other people, simply to get a reaction out of them.

Then your thread must be that of a troll.

You have on occasion posted things that are clearly false, or defended a position that is clearly indefensible,

In whose opinion, yours?

or post things that you don't even believe simply because I held the opposite position and you wanted to argue for the fun of it.

I never post anything I don't personally believe in. How do you know what I believe in? Or, what I really believe.

I'll admit though that what you do is right on the line between trolling and playing devil's advocate, and it's more of the latter than the former.

Devil's advocate, yes, sometimes to make a point. Everyone does that at times. That is not trolling.

On the other hand, freak's threads are almost entirely troll bait.

And yours are not?

I don't even believe that he believes most of the stuff he posts

Then read closer, its very clear.

he just does it to get a rise out of people, or probably just for the attention.

Legitimate attention, yes. This bothers you?

And I felt a little bad for him that no one had taken the bait yet,

Ahhh, so nice of you to feel bad for me. But, truth to tell, my posts are among the most read and responded to. Probably because I take the time to find material that people will find interesting.

so I wanted to let him know that I still read his posts, even if most of the people he intends them for don't.

I am so thrilled that you read my posts. I'll email you a link to my PayPal account so you can donate.

[AceTracer]

I never post anything I don't personally believe in. How do you know what I believe in? Or, what I really believe.
I choose not to believe that you really think all Muslims should be interned and gay babies should be aborted. Maybe I have a better impression of you than is actually you, but I choose not to believe that. And I think I'm right. I think you use hyperbole a lot to try and get your point across, but you don't actually believe everything that you say.

[freakazoid]

I choose not to believe

that you really think all Muslims should be interned

Where have I said that Muslims (other then muslim terrorists) should be interned? Please show me where I have said that.

and gay babies should be aborted.

No baby should be aborted, again, you miss the point. I don't believe in any mythical "gay gene." My point was obvious and clear to any thinking person.

Maybe I have a better impression of you than is actually you,

Maybe, anything is possible, but I strongly doubt it.

but I choose not to believe that. And I think I'm right. I think you use hyperbole a lot to try and get your point across,

And what is wrong with using hyperbole to get a point across?

but you don't actually believe everything that you say.

I believe the point I was making, and yes, hyperbole is a tool to express a point of view. So what?

[AceTracer]

Where have I said that Muslims (other then muslim terrorists) should be interned? Please show me where I have said that.
Here you go. (http://www.bullshit.com/showthread.php?5753-7-Dead-14-Wounded-at-Fort-Hood-Military-Base&p=104532#post104532)

[AceTracer]

Where have I said that Muslims (other then muslim terrorists) should be interned? Please show me where I have said that.
I'll just put this right here (http://www.bullshit.com/showthread.php?5753-7-Dead-14-Wounded-at-Fort-Hood-Military-Base&p=104532#post104532) for you.

[AceTracer]

Where have I said that Muslims (other then muslim terrorists) should be interned? Please show me where I have said that.Here you go. (http://www.bullshit.com/showthread.php?5753-7-Dead-14-Wounded-at-Fort-Hood-Military-Base&p=104532#post104532)



And what is wrong with using hyperbole to get a point across?

but you don't actually believe everything that you say.

I believe the point I was making, and yes, hyperbole is a tool to express a point of view. So what?
Hyperbole diminishes the point you're trying to make. If you say something is the worst thing ever, when it's clearly not the worst thing ever, then it's hard to prove that point.

In any case, if you agree that you make heavy use of hyperbole, then you're basically admitting you don't really believe everything you say. So...thank you for proving my point.

[LedZap]

Quote Originally Posted by freakazoid

Where have I said that Muslims (other then muslim terrorists) should be interned? Please show me where I have said that.




Here you go. (http://www.bullshit.com/showthread.php?5753-7-Dead-14-Wounded-at-Fort-Hood-Military-Base&p=104532#post104532)


[QUOTE=freakazoid;104532]I agree, as much as I hate to admit it; if any of them indicates that they are a THREAT in any way deportation should be mandatory and possible internment. If they are US citizens they need to be kept under the closes observation and arrested if there is any indication of TERRORIST ACTIVITY or supporting the same. Enough of this islamic terror shit.


Sure looks to me like he was posting about terrorists and people that posed a THREAT to society.


And you call him a Troll.

[AceTracer]

You conveniently left out what he was agreeing to, which was me saying (sarcastically, unbeknownst to him) that every Muslim should be deported. Regardless, my original point was that I don't think he actually believed that. Nor that all gay babies should be aborted, which he also admits isn't true. I think maybe you're missing the point here, and instead are just perpetually trying to disagree with everything I say just for the sake of it as always. It gets...a little tiring to be honest.

By the way, if you accuse everything I do as trolling, you diminish the point you're trying to make. It's like calling everything awesome, it makes things...less awesome. This is pretty much exactly the point I'm trying to make, and you're doing a good job of proving me right in your last few replies to me. I've maybe accused you of that twice, ever, in the 1+ year I've been on this forum. You've done the same in one day. I understand the point you're trying to make, really I do, but by suddenly accusing everything I say whether it's merited or not you're only weakening your case.

I think maybe you need to relax and take a step back. I can't possibly be 100% wrong and hypocritical in everything that I do. I'm sure I am some of the time, but if you accuse me of it all the time, it just diminishes your argument. You understand?

[freakazoid]

Here you go. (http://www.bullshit.com/showthread.php?5753-7-Dead-14-Wounded-at-Fort-Hood-Military-Base&p=104532#post104532)

You didn't read it very carefully. I said...

"I agree, as much as I hate to admit it; if any of them indicates that they are a threat in any way deportation should be mandatory and possible internment."

That is called "probable cause" and it would be wise to watch a person indicating that they are a threat VERY CLOSELY. Need I remind you of a few muslim terrorists that we WERE NOT watching close enough...

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:5YummAIxr2nvSM:http://www.illuminati-news.com/graphics/911-attack.gif&t=1

I did NOT say that all muslims should be interned.

[freakazoid]

Quote Originally Posted by freakazoid

Where have I said that Muslims (other then muslim terrorists) should be interned? Please show me where I have said that.



[QUOTE=AceTracer;142458]Here you go. (http://www.bullshit.com/showthread.php?5753-7-Dead-14-Wounded-at-Fort-Hood-Military-Base&p=104532#post104532)





Sure looks to me like he was posting about terrorists and people that posed a THREAT to society.


And you call him a Troll.

I was posting about people who are a threat. My answer to AceTracer is in jail until bail is posted, mang.

[AceTracer]

Well freak, I thank you for clarifying your position, and apologize for implying otherwise (even though I said I never believed you believed that anyway).

Like I said, I think you're mostly not as bad as other people here have claimed you to be. I think you use hyperbole a lot to get your point across, which, on either side of the aisle, is not the best way to convince people, and that's why I and I think others choose not to respond to that approach.

That's all I wanted to say in my original reply to you.

[freakazoid]

Well freak, I thank you for clarifying your position, and apologize for implying otherwise (even though I said I never believed you believed that anyway).

Like I said, I think you're mostly not as bad as other people here have claimed you to be. I think you use hyperbole a lot to get your point across, which, on either side of the aisle, is not the best way to convince people, and that's why I and I think others choose not to respond to that approach.

That's all I wanted to say in my original reply to you.

All is cool.

[AceTracer]

LedZap, from now on I'll refrain from using the term "trolling" (though I've only used it a few times in a year) and I apologize if it offended you. Being contrarian or playing devil's advocate is much more accurate in your case anyway.

[yee-haw]

Fuck the trolls, Fuck the liberals, Fuck hyperbol and fuck that sumama - beotch Haw, He should have been aborted!

[LedZap]

Cool , I apologize as well....But this doesn't mean we're gonna take warm showers together....LOL.

[yee-haw]

Cool , I apologize as well....But this doesn't mean we're gonna take warm showers together....LOL.

It aint gonna be cold ones i hope...lmao!!!! i kill me!!!

[Carrot]

Fuck the trolls, Fuck the liberals, Fuck hyperbol and fuck that sumama - beotch Haw, He should have been aborted!

Wow, phoenix, you finally managed to hack haw's account.

[Carrot]

Cool , I apologize as well....But this doesn't mean we're gonna take warm showers together....LOL.

I like it dirty too.

[AceTracer]

this doesn't mean we're gonna take warm showers together....LOL.
:(

...........

[LedZap]

..................

[Phoenix]

Research confirms 'gay gene' discovery...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/research-confirms-gay-gene-discovery-1580244.html

PERFECT! We can now identify sodomites in the womb and abort them before they cause problems for society.

** Benefits:

- Drastically reduce the AIDS epidemic.

- No more worries about so-called "gay rights." (They have more rights than others? I did not know that).

- Empty out "gay bars" and "gay bath houses" (also reducing the spread of AIDS) which will help to restore the community to a higher standard of quality, living and safety.

- Reduce the amount of cops that we need to pay for who have to patrol gay pickup locations.

- Our children can go to school without being indoctrinated (against the will of their parents and the community) into accepting homosexuality as an "alternative life style."

- No more disgusting "gay rights" parades in Disneyland or The Magic Kingdom in Orlando. (I'm not sure, but I don't think Mickey Mouse was a sodomite or a supporter of same).

- No more need for the mindless and sick "don't ask, don't tell" doctrine in the Military.

Gay abortion! I am for it! Since sodomites love abortion so much LETS GET THE JOB DONE!!

Of course, there are those that understand that the "gay gene" is pure bullshit (let's hope they're wrong)...

http://www.trueorigin.org/gaygene01.asp

http://www.narth.com/docs/mythgene.html

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/tabor/050216

hi beelzebub
Thank you freak. I am so glad you've posted this and proved once and for all what a hypocritical homophobic asshole you are.

In other news
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/249397/Images/Keynote%20things/WTF.jpg

Even that isn't big enough.

Wow, phoenix, you finally managed to hack haw's account.
No, if I had of done that I would have stickied this thread, closed it, and banned his (freak's) ass. This goes beyond just disagreeing; freak has managed to post something here that is disturbing on so many levels I can't even describe it.

[yee-haw]

I like it dirty too.


:(

...........


..................

This thread just turned really gay...LMAO!

[AceTracer]

Warm showers are nice.

[yee-haw]

I like it dirty too.


:(

...........


..................


Warm showers are nice.

You guys want me to change the name of this thread for you?..lol

[Carrot]

You guys want me to change the name of this thread for you?..lol

Are you feeling left out?

[freakazoid]

You guys want me to change the name of this thread for you?..lol

Nah, rather have an oat soda.

[yee-haw]

Are you feeling left out?

Somewhat i guess...:(

[Rec]

Stumbling into this thread is like walking in a steamy mens shower by mistake!HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[yee-haw]

Stumbling into this thread is like walking in a steamy mens shower by mistake!HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA


Hey baaabyyyy c'mon in we're gonna play snap the towel, ya want in on this?lol

[LedZap]

http://www.sportressofblogitude.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/dead-giants.jpg

http://www.sportressofblogitude.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/dead-giants.jpg

http://www.sportressofblogitude.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/dead-giants.jpg

giants win

[Carrot]

Stumbling into this thread is like walking in a steamy mens shower by mistake!HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Your ultimate fantasy??

[MrRee]

Stumbling into this thread is like walking in to a gay bar just to get a beer.
You can't leave fast enough !!!

[Rec]

:p:cool:
Your ultimate fantasy??



Sweetie that is ole hat,,,,,I did do high school and later college.......when one is young one does fantasy, not have them!!!!!

[beelzebub]

i get this "troll" shit from ace every time he loses a debate.

you are biased

[LedZap]

you are biased

Your slander is noted.

[freakazoid]

Your slander is noted.

Watch it, Zap, beelze________ may have a crush on you. (Parish the thought!)

[yee-haw]

Watch it, Zap, beelze________ may have a crush on you. (Parish the thought!)

Your slander is noted as well..

[beelzebub]

Isn't this thread about Gay Jeans?

http://www.gayonaccident.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/mens-skinny-jeans.jpg

???

http://womensstudies210.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/3474092024_7e0983a8682.jpg?w=300&h=300

[Rise Up]

I was half expecting some articles from the mind of Simon Le Vay......but oh well. Guy's a kook as it is, even though he's a psychologist but then again.....working with the human mind can make you one!! XD

[ThatArgumentativeShit]

I think the whole gay gene thing is kinda bullshit. Even if it is true, it's still a life. Shouldn't really matter or be considered to be aborted unless there are circumstances that could cause harm to the baby.

[MrJim]

I think it's got to be sociological, that you could take a single person and place them in a number of different environments, and those environments would affect every aspect of their personality, including their sexuality. For example, it's common to find someone 'discover their self' after being in an extremely abusive relationship. Humanity is also full of fence-riders.

[vulcan]

I think if we have gene, i dont want for my gene to be removed I still want to enjoy my life at full, so if you know what I mean...

[Rec]

I think it's got to be sociological, that you could take a single person and place them in a number of different environments, and those environments would affect every aspect of their personality, including their sexuality. For example, it's common to find someone 'discover their self' after being in an extremely abusive relationship. Humanity is also full of fence-riders.

I agree, it is NOT in the nature, it is in the" nuture" of the personality that ingrains habits of thought and then action on them.

[MrRee]

That's why I believe gays & lisbeons should NOT be able to adopt ! The child will think their actions are normal and accept them

[1stoic1]

I agree, it is NOT in the nature, it is in the" nuture" of the personality that ingrains habits of thought and then action on them.

It seems as though he's saying that there is an environment capable of turning him gay, and you agree? That's interesting. Perhaps you two just aren't being true to your actual needs.

Homosexuals emanate from heterosexually provocative environments, and even environments that are eagerly hostile toward homosexuality, where discrimination, excommunication, and abuse are known consequences of such lifestyles. Your 'homosexuality is solely nurtured' theory makes no sense in conjunction with this data.

[1stoic1]

That's why I believe gays & lisbeons should NOT be able to adopt ! The child will think their actions are normal and accept them

Homosexuality is normal and acceptable. You expect orphans to sacrifice a loving accomodating home so that maybe they'll believe what you believe when they're older? That is incredibly selfish and inhuman.

[Phoenix]

Homosexuality is normal and acceptable. You expect orphans to sacrifice a loving accomodating home so that maybe they'll believe what you believe when they're older? That is incredibly selfish and inhuman.

I approve of this post!

[Rec]

It seems as though he's saying that there is an environment capable of turning him gay, and you agree? That's interesting. Perhaps you two just aren't being true to your actual needs.

Homosexuals emanate from heterosexually provocative environments, and even environments that are eagerly hostile toward homosexuality, where discrimination, excommunication, and abuse are known consequences of such lifestyles. Your 'homosexuality is solely nurtured' theory makes no sense in conjunction with this data.


Reading comprehension problems again or just fond of combining post and mixing comments to suit your need to express yourself???? My post was not in complete agreement with the one above mine......Please do a reread and you will finally see that to nuture can mean whatever the household determines is nuturing as opposed to the cultural norms. sheesh!!!! To nuture is to love unconditionally period.

[1stoic1]

Reading comprehension problems again or just fond of combining post and mixing comments to suit your need to express yourself???? My post was not in complete agreement with the one above mine......Please do a reread and you will finally see that to nuture can mean whatever the household determines is nuturing as opposed to the cultural norms. sheesh!!!! To nuture is to love unconditionally period.

The household is an environment, and MrJim was talking about environments. So you're saying that your parents could have turned you gay if they wanted to?

[Rec]

The household is an environment, and MrJim was talking about environments. So you're saying that your parents could have turned you gay if they wanted to?



No, no other person turns another gay, is my point, although in some instances of severe child abuse by one parent, could possibily have some influence in the outcome, I suppose. There is no specific reasons proven or even posited for being gay, as far as I can tell. Other than just theories on the behavoiral traits of some humans. I do not say that anyone has the power to make another person gay,,,,,,in fact, I have two siblings that are straight and one that is gay.......No, I cannot say with any certainty just what makes a person gay or straight.....even as well read as I am.....some cases are a maybe, but every individual is different. There is no quick and easy answer. And no being gay is NOT the normative in society, just the recognition of it as a special group, which it is NOT! Ones sex life does not and should not dictate what kind of human one is......gay and straight are all still humans with sexual drives that differ and needs that differ. They are not freaks or oddities!

[1stoic1]

No, no other person turns another gay, is my point, although in some instances of severe child abuse by one parent, could possibily have some influence in the outcome, I suppose. There is no specific reasons proven or even posited for being gay, as far as I can tell. Other than just theories on the behavoiral traits of some humans. I do not say that anyone has the power to make another person gay,,,,,,in fact, I have two siblings that are straight and one that is gay.......No, I cannot say with any certainty just what makes a person gay or straight.....even as well read as I am.....some cases are a maybe, but every individual is different. There is no quick and easy answer.

I agree with this, but it looks as though you're backpedaling now from your original post which was fairly explicit in it's declaration. See: "it is NOT in the nature, it is in nurture of the personality". That sounds like a statement of certainty.


And no being gay is NOT the normative in society, just the recognition of it as a special group, which it is NOT! Ones sex life does not and should not dictate what kind of human one is......gay and straight are all still humans with sexual drives that differ and needs that differ. They are not freaks or oddities!

What do you mean homosexuality is not a normative? It makes up a substantial portion of the human populace. An abnormal sexuality would be something like an attraction to metals.

I don't think anyone suggested that homosexuals are freaks, or that their sexual orientation determines their humanity, except outward bigots like MrRee and freakazoid.

[Rec]

I agree with this, but it looks as though you're backpedaling now from your original post which was fairly explicit in it's declaration. See: "it is NOT in the nature, it is in nurture of the personality". That sounds like a statement of certainty.



What do you mean homosexuality is not a normative? It makes up a substantial portion of the human populace. An abnormal sexuality would be something like an attraction to metals.

I don't think anyone suggested that homosexuals are freaks, or that their sexual orientation determines their humanity, except outward bigots like MrRee and freakazoid.






Nope am not back pedallling one bit,,,,,,to nuture is to love unconditionallly within a family,,,,,to nuture is to love and care for the well being of another human. Being straight or gay and having a real nuturing attitude which would not just turn a child one way with thier thinking in the gay way necessaryily......gay people interact with the world everyday and would I think encourage the children to do the same. Unless one is strident with rigiid teachings and controls that are NOT normal, the child should develop thier own way period. That is my point,,,,,,,you trying to start a fight?????? lol NOT, NOT!!!!! Have a happy news years instead Stoic!!!!

[TheBlackParrot]

Nope am not back pedallling one bit,,,,,,to nuture is to love unconditionallly within a family,,,,,to nuture is to love and care for the well being of another human. Being straight or gay and having a real nuturing attitude which would not just turn a child one way with thier thinking in the gay way necessaryily......gay people interact with the world everyday and would I think encourage the children to do the same. Unless one is strident with rigiid teachings and controls that are NOT normal, the child should develop thier own way period. That is my point,,,,,,,you trying to start a fight?????? lol NOT, NOT!!!!! Have a happy news years instead Stoic!!!!

ATTENTION FOLKS! HELL HAS OFFICIALLY FROZEN OVER! I just found a topic that I can agree with Rec on. Wow. Must be the new year thing.

[loanranger]

hello shams

[yee-haw]

hello shams

We have an introduction thread..this aint it.

[vulcan]

a couple should be allowed to raise a child, I learn a lot of things from my father and a lot of things from my mother, and both were very different. If I had two father let's face it, both are men. So the feminine part is missing in the raise of a child, i have nothing against gays, but I think if they adopt a child they give a child a poorest life style/experiences, than a regular family.

[D.C.Rage]

a couple should be allowed to raise a child, I learn a lot of things from my father and a lot of things from my mother, and both were very different. If I had two father let's face it, both are men. So the feminine part is missing in the raise of a child, i have nothing against gays, but I think if they adopt a child they give a child a poorest life style/experiences, than a regular family.

Regardless of the composition of a family, being with a loving family beats the hell out of being raised by the state in a foster home or orphanage. And I know a lot of heterosexual men who are currently raising their children while their wives work, these men are caring and nutruring. Having a vagina doesn't automatically make you feminine. My quality time with my nieces and my nephews consist of things like fishing and teaching them how to defend themselves, including how to fire a gun safely. I don't do feminine very well. There are many facets to all people. My best friend is a great housekeeper, wonderful cook, and a very sweet and affectionate father. He wouldn't know .22 from a .38. I am a hunting and fishing enthusiast who can outshoot most of the men I know. I enjoy motorcycles and working on cars. Just some food for thought....ya don't need a penis to be a good 'father' figure, and you don't have to have a vagina to be a good 'mother' type.

[D.C.Rage]

Not only are they trying to confirm that there is, in fact, a gene responsible for sexuality, they also believe that sexuality may be directly related to the amount of testosterone that the hypothalamus is exposed to during pregnancy. In a study focusing on multiple births, scientists stated that they believe that it my have something to do with the chemical that causes different genomes to activate in the DNA of the fetus. :)

[yee-haw]

Not only are they trying to confirm that there is, in fact, a gene responsible for sexuality, they also believe that sexuality may be directly related to the amount of testosterone that the hypothalamus is exposed to during pregnancy. In a study focusing on multiple births, scientists stated that they believe that it my have something to do with the chemical that causes different genomes to activate in the DNA of the fetus. :)

All i really know is i get drunk and get sexually active..

(^^^)

[MrRee]

All i really know is i get drunk and get sexually active..

(^^^)


True Haw, but you never have desires for another guy!

DC talks about "chemicals:" being a reason for queers. Sounds like a damn good reason NOT to be a druggie to me!

[freakazoid]

True Haw, but you never have desires for another guy!

DC talks about "chemicals:" being a reason for queers. Sounds like a damn good reason NOT to be a druggie to me!

I think that is probably true, given that a very high percent of drug addicts are also fags. Though, in beelzebub's case, he stated that his involvement in homosexuality/sodomy began as a young teenager with other young teenagers (which is a felony in any state; it is child molestation and statutory rape of a minor even if by another minor). This indicates a break down in the family he was from.

A large percent of fags come from broken down families. They look to another male to replace the father figure they never had, or one that was violent or just didn't care. By attaching themselves sexually to another male, they get the emotional comfort, attention and acceptance they crave. If that still does not satisfy, they often turn to drugs. It's a common story.

.

[D.C.Rage]

Wrong chemicals, I'm talking about epigenetics not drugs. I don't know where you are getting your information, but I see that it is definately biased. Nothing I wouldn't expect from a homophobic person, but still rather disappointing. I am certianly not gay because of my parents. My mother happens to be one of my very best friends. A lot of people come from broken homes these days, that doesn't mean that they will be gay. I've never met anyone who blamed their sexuality on their parents divorce or because they have a disfunctional family. However, here are a few links that you may find interesting regarding homophobia.



http://www.philosophy-religion.org/handouts/homophobia.htm
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8772014
http://www.bibble.org/gay/phobia/roots_of_homophobia.html
http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2011/02/03/Study_Homophobia_Harms_Health/

[eyeonyou]

A large percent of fags come from broken down families. They look to another male to replace the father figure they never had, or one that was violent or just didn't care. By attaching themselves sexually to another male, they get the emotional comfort, attention and acceptance they crave. If that still does not satisfy, they often turn to drugs. It's a common story.

This I quoted is a load of horse shit. People are gay because they are wired that way the same as I was wired to have chased the girls all my life. To be truly gay, it is genetics. With a bisexual tendency, I think one just loves sex, period, of any form. But that I don't know. But one girl told me that years ago.

If the quote were true which it is NOT, then why would a member of one of the richest families in Central Florida, who had a very happy childhood till after puberty when he struggled with his sexuality for a couple of decades because of the stigma people put on it, even through a marriage, finally tell his family he was gay. He is mega rich, never was in a broken down family, repressed his urges, never did drugs other than possibly some early experimentation like many and is well respected by all accounts even to those of us who know when the world may NOT? I have never seen in print that he has come out to the public. But any that have known him for a long time know.

I do know that being gay means nothing. Except one is attracted to the same sex, NOT the opposite sex. I also know that gay people are just like any other class of people no matter if grouped by region, race, country or any other grouping. Good or bad. My only proof of that is a total life experience in dealing with every person I have been in contact with in my life.

Anyone who wants to downgrade someone for loving someone, well, you are the one hating. In reality, homosexuality is about loving a same sex person, NOT sex itself. There are many marriages of a man and woman that go for ever and sex is NOT a part of it.

If one is happy having sex with a woman or a man, that is that person's choice, NOT anyone else's anyway.

People that try to decide for them are wrong.

[beelzebub]

i have nothing against gays, but I think if they adopt a child they give a child a poorest life style/experiences, than a regular family.

If you have nothing against them then you should have nothing against them adopting, but as usual you are being disingenuous.

You DO have something against gays (even though I think you are gay) and feel it is necessary to subjugate them as you feel they are less than STR8 people.

This is most likely because you despise that part of you that desires homosexuality.

[MrJim]

Not only are they trying to confirm that there is, in fact, a gene responsible for sexuality, they also believe that sexuality may be directly related to the amount of testosterone that the hypothalamus is exposed to during pregnancy. In a study focusing on multiple births, scientists stated that they believe that it my have something to do with the chemical that causes different genomes to activate in the DNA of the fetus. :)

So then is it possible that modifying hormone levels with medicine would change sexual orientation?

[D.C.Rage]

So then is it possible that modifying hormone levels with medicine would change sexual orientation?
I doubt that, no more than there is likely a hormone treatment that could make you taller, or your eyes a different color, or whatever... but who knows? Maybe someday....

[MrJim]

I doubt that, no more than there is likely a hormone treatment that could make you taller, or your eyes a different color, or whatever... but who knows? Maybe someday....

I just kind of figured that if they brought this into the realm of chemistry that they would be able to alter it. Otherwise, it still seems sociological to me.

[hitekredneck]

So then is it possible that modifying hormone levels with medicine would change sexual orientation?

Don't believe they could change orientation with hormones, but definitely can change urges....with new advances in dna technology, however, who knows what's possible...orientation is hard-wired in our psyche, and isn't due to chemical balances, hormonal or otherwise...bub can't help bein a pole-smoker anymore that you or i can help breathing....we can make a concious effort to stop it, but it won't go away...




edit:
you know it was a joke, bub....i ain't gettin all FREAKKY on ya, i promise...lol

[MrJim]

Don't believe they could change orientation with hormones, but definitely can change urges....with new advances in dna technology, however, who knows what's possible...orientation is hard-wired in our psyche, and isn't due to chemical balances, hormonal or otherwise...bub can't help bein a pole-smoker anymore that you or i can help breathing....we can make a concious effort to stop it, but it won't go away...l

I don't believe it's possible at all. Of course, I believe that there is a distinct difference between mind and matter, and that the mind controls the matter rather than the other way around. I don't believe that personality quirks are somehow embedded in chemicals that cause a person to behave a certain way. I think that mind and personality are intangible and are not modifiable by tangibles.

I don't believe that so-called alcoholics have to drink. I don't believe that kleptomaniacs have to steal. I don't believe that serial killers, child molesters, or rapists should be able to claim insanity.

I believe people do things because they LIKE them! Not to be a dick or anything to someone who is gay, but I really do believe that at some point, a gay person decided that they PREFERRED gay to straight, just as I decided that pizza is better than lettuce, beer is better than whiskey, and so on. We are prone to enjoy one thing over another based on feelings and experience.

[Carrot]

There is a higher instance of gays the more older brothers you have. The theory is the woman develops antibodies of a sort each time a foriegn male is inside her (oo-err).

I don't really think anyone is born gay, some may be born with higher tendencies, be it a too high or too low of a sex drive but ultimately some sort of childhood experience(s) accumulate to tip the balance.

I don't think you can choose everything, even if you completely remove the genetics side of it. I didn't decide I liked pizza more than lettuce, I realised I did.

A racist might not have decided they didn't like whatever race, but hey realised that x race was bad because tey were beaten by said race as a child or whatever. They realised it as a child and it bacame embedded. Now that I say that infact that's how phobias usually start, an event occurs and it becomes embedded in their personality.

ON the physical side of things, without going too far down the spiritual route here, head injuries have had severe effect on personality in the past, without any other effects. Whichever way you want to look at that it's clear the physical structure/chemical balance does affect the personality whether you think there's a soul there or not. Maybe it didn't affect the actual soul if you want to go down that route, but it definately affected the output we recieve.

[beelzebub]

... I really do believe that at some point, a gay person decided that they PREFERRED gay to straight, just as I decided that pizza is better than lettuce, beer is better than whiskey, and so on. We are prone to enjoy one thing over another based on feelings and experience.

So using your example above:

People choose to be gay or straight because they have an experience and decide they like it or not. Therefore:

People who have not had a sexual experience are like a blank slate. They have no desire for either sex or preference of sexuality. Therefore:

The vast majority of people are straight due to social convention and any virgin professing their desire for one sex over another are being dishonest as they have not yet formed that desire.

So tell me,... with the pervasive negative social stigma against homosexuality why would anyone choose it?

[Patt]

So tell me,... with the pervasive negative social stigma against homosexuality why would anyone choose it?

Because they like how it feels.

[hitekredneck]

well, from what i've read on the subject, homosexuals have a different chemical composition in the brain....this leads me to think that they are born that way...

[MrJim]

So using your example above:

People choose to be gay or straight because they have an experience and decide they like it or not. Therefore:

People who have not had a sexual experience are like a blank slate. They have no desire for either sex or preference of sexuality. Therefore:

The vast majority of people are straight due to social convention and any virgin professing their desire for one sex over another are being dishonest as they have not yet formed that desire.



Notice that I said feelings AND experience. Even without any experience, people can and will have feelings about what it is they are attracted to. The experience reinforces it, and, yes, I think that in the end that is the only means of true self-discovery.

The virgins can obviously have desire just like anyone else. They just haven't acted on it yet.


So tell me,... with the pervasive negative social stigma against homosexuality why would anyone choose it?

Because that's what they like. People do what (and who) they want. I would imagine that the stigma really only matters when it comes from people they care about - family, friends, etc., that disapprove of that lifestyle. Life is complicated that way.

[MrJim]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot...

What about bi-sexuals? They can turn gay on and off like a light switch! Even have sex with both at the same time! So what are the genes doing in that case? If the body is actually coded for 'gay' or 'straight' and the mind must act on those results, how could this happen? Seems like a conscious decision, does it not?

[beelzebub]

Notice that I said feelings AND experience. Even without any experience, people can and will have feelings about what it is they are attracted to. The experience reinforces it, and, yes, I think that in the end that is the only means of true self-discovery.

Thanks, I wanted to clarify your stance.

Feelings about something means an internal desire about that "thing", which can preclude experience. If one has never had sex but desires sex where did that desire come from? We can say the same thing and specify for sex with a particular gender.

Its obviously NOT from experience since the person lacks it.

So where does that desire come from?

Another question. If one desires homosexual sex, and has never had it, can they change their desire for that of the opposite sex? Can this happen with STR8 people as well?


The virgins can obviously have desire just like anyone else. They just haven't acted on it yet.
Because that's what they like. People do what (and who) they want. I would imagine that the stigma really only matters when it comes from people they care about - family, friends, etc., that disapprove of that lifestyle. Life is complicated that way.

Again, where did that preference come from?

I believe that the stigma's impact you narrow to family & friends has much broader implications for a wider aspect of life plans; such as people interested in: children, holding public office, military and other sectors.

[beelzebub]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot...What about bi-sexuals? They can turn gay on and off like a light switch! Even have sex with both at the same time! So what are the genes doing in that case? If the body is actually coded for 'gay' or 'straight' and the mind must act on those results, how could this happen? Seems like a conscious decision, does it not?

Now this is an interesting question. I believe that there is not a simple duality to sexuality but extremes with a lot of gray inbetween. I believe most humans fall in a gray area where they are attracted to both sexes. I do not feel they CHOOSE to do this I feel it is in their nature and it is innate.

[MrJim]

Feelings about something means an internal desire about that "thing", which can preclude experience. If one has never had sex but desires sex where did that desire come from? We can say the same thing and specify for sex with a particular gender.

Its obviously NOT from experience since the person lacks it.

So where does that desire come from?

Another question. If one desires homosexual sex, and has never had it, can they change their desire for that of the opposite sex? Can this happen with STR8 people as well?

Again, where did that preference come from?


Genetic tendency toward hormonal imbalance is probably the closest you'll get to linking genetics and homosexuality - unfortunately, that would also demonstrate that it is an abnormality that a doctor would be justified in treating in a similar manner as menopause or dysfunction - or warrant a sex change operation in cases that the imbalance isn't treatable. I don't think the majority of the homosexual community is comfortable with thinking like that, so it is probably more beneficial to your cause to consider sociological influence. Just sayin'....

The answer to your final question, in my opinion, is yes. Unfortunately, the first factors that come to mind are fairly negative in nature:


Sexual abuse by someone of the opposite sex, usually a parental figure
Misconduct by someone of the opposite sex in relationships
Being raised in an enviornment that too strongly encourages/discourages gender specific roles
Mixed signals from an increasingly bi-curious society


The reason for listing all of this is that you can pretty much tie ANY sexual quirk to something sociological - say, the chick that likes being whipped might have been given too many floggin's growing up, or the one that cries during sex has some severe emotional problems stemming from some experience, etc... so it's VERY possible for orientation to be based on life experience. I've seen it happen.


I believe that the stigma's impact you narrow to family & friends has much broader implications for a wider aspect of life plans; such as people interested in: children, holding public office, military and other sectors.

I'll buy that. Of course, usually that stigma originates with immediate family because of their closeness to that individual for such a long time. But those other life plans you speak of are also legitimate LATER in life. I would be lying if I said that I wouldn't be disappointed that my children became gay because I would like to have grandchildren someday. But I would be a LOT more accepting than the next generation up, and the one before it! Times and people are constantly changing.

[MrJim]

Now this is an interesting question. I believe that there is not a simple duality to sexuality but extremes with a lot of gray inbetween. I believe most humans fall in a gray area where they are attracted to both sexes. I do not feel they CHOOSE to do this I feel it is in their nature and it is innate.

Sorry bub, I don't buy that one for a minute. Most people REALLY ARE black and white. If you don't believe me, go hit on ten guys and tell me how many times you hit a gray area (my estimate: you receive 5 ass kickings, 4 "whoa, dude, I'm not that way"s, and maybe, MAYBE one gray area, depending on the strength of your 'gaydar'). As for 'in their nature' - personally, I make a strong distinction between 'their nature' and 'their genetics' - nature sounds more like a mental characteristic whereas genetics is a material one.

[beelzebub]

Sorry bub, I don't buy that one for a minute.

I am not selling anything either. We are discussing and your "not buying" is trying to diminish my stance to a mere sales pitch.


Most people REALLY ARE black and white. If you don't believe me, go hit on ten guys and tell me how many times you hit a gray area (my estimate: you receive 5 ass kickings, 4 "whoa, dude, I'm not that way"s, and maybe, MAYBE one gray area, depending on the strength of your 'gaydar')

And that would be because of the negative stigmata associated with being gay not because of their attraction. People are not neatly put into two categories. There is, of course those that have a strong preference for one or another but to say that people don't have some gray is to ignore all the experimentation that goes on. I know (in many ways) so called str8 men that like to play on the side. And I believe many more would if it was not taboo.

If the hatred of gay folk were lifted from our society and everyone accepted it as just another way of loving, fully equal with all other forms and respected,.....AND there was still this "Black and White" contrast of sexual preference you say exists then I would say you are correct. However, I bet that duality would not exist and a lot more folk would fall in the middle.



. As for 'in their nature' - personally, I make a strong distinction between 'their nature' and 'their genetics' - nature sounds more like a mental characteristic whereas genetics is a material one.

Just a mental characteristic? Mr Jim,... what do you think creates sexual preference in the brain? Dont you think that is an essential thing that would be shaped by genetics?

For example: When you smell roasting potatoes or cookies you want to eat it. What is good about it is that it holds nutrients that you can use. The smell is not really good or bad its just a chemical in the air your brain makes sense of. Why, if you were a fly you would probably feel the same way about a fresh pile of shit. The smell would be intoxicating enough to make your mouth water but it does not because you brain is programed to avoid foods that contain certain bacteria that give off a sent because eating such can cause you to die. You don't choose to find shit yummy and you don't choose to be attracted to a particular sex. :D Its just in you, innate and that was shaped by genetics.

So sexual preference, much like finding certain foods attractive, is also programed in your brain.

[sunny]

ppppppppppffffffffffffffftttttttttttttttttttt


big deal... you guys are making a drama out of nothing. who cares who is what, doing what or anything else. What I am more concerned with, is a person a good soul or a rotten soul?

That should be a major concern of anyone.... not their sexual preference. geesh.

[Limbo]

Interesting study about sexual preference in mice: Brain chemical influences sexual preference in mice (http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/71586/title/Brain_chemical_influences_sexual_preference_in_mic e)


Mice without the neurotransmitter no longer eschew the smells of other males, wooing them instead with squeaky love songs and attempts to mount them, researchers report online March 23 in Nature.

Serotonin’s surprise role in mouse courtship may lead to a deeper understanding of how brain cells control a complex behavior.

“Nobody thought that serotonin could be involved in this kind of sexual preference,” says study coauthor Zhou-Feng Chen of Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis.

[MrJim]

I am not selling anything either. We are discussing and your "not buying" is trying to diminish my stance to a mere sales pitch.

By that, I meant that I didn't agree with you. It's an expression.


And that would be because of the negative stigmata associated with being gay not because of their attraction. People are not neatly put into two categories. There is, of course those that have a strong preference for one or another but to say that people don't have some gray is to ignore all the experimentation that goes on. I know (in many ways) so called str8 men that like to play on the side. And I believe many more would if it was not taboo.

If the hatred of gay folk were lifted from our society and everyone accepted it as just another way of loving, fully equal with all other forms and respected,.....AND there was still this "Black and White" contrast of sexual preference you say exists then I would say you are correct. However, I bet that duality would not exist and a lot more folk would fall in the middle.

I think you might be a little confused. First of all, these "so called str8 men that like to play on the side" are obviously gay to the true straight man. If you'll refer to our discussion about the bi-sexuals (them), I have already stated my opinion that a conscious decision is being made with no genetic/material origins. That's my opinion of course and you are equally entitled to yours, but I think you're confusing the actions of few with the motives of most.

Secondly, I think that society is many times more accepting of the gay community than it was just 20 or 30 years ago. That still doesn't turn your blacks & whites into grays, however. Acceptance is completely different than conversion.

[MrJim]

ppppppppppffffffffffffffftttttttttttttttttttt


big deal... you guys are making a drama out of nothing. who cares who is what, doing what or anything else. What I am more concerned with, is a person a good soul or a rotten soul?

That should be a major concern of anyone.... not their sexual preference. geesh.

At face value, I really don't give a crap either. But someone cared enough to post about it, so naturally I have some form of response.

[MrJim]

Interesting study about sexual preference in mice: Brain chemical influences sexual preference in mice (http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/71586/title/Brain_chemical_influences_sexual_preference_in_mic e)

They were careful to emphasize that human sexuality is not an equivalent. Sounds like they doubt the reliability of the study as well:


Psychiatrist and sexual-research scientist Milton Wainberg of Columbia University says that it’s too simplistic to apply the experimental results to human sexuality. “These mice are not gay,” Wainberg says, “These mice have a disease that makes them do one behavior, which happens to be a behavior that can be thought of as a homosexual behavior, but it’s not homosexuality. It’s not being gay.”

The researchers don’t yet know whether serotonin affects sexual behavior in female mice.

Honestly, it seems more like a laboratory equivalent to putting a bunch of mice on ecstasy.

[beelzebub]

By that, I meant that I didn't agree with you. It's an expression..

I know I know,... I just a tad peeved with the notion that a STR8 man feels its right to tell me I CHOSE to be gay when I know i didn't..
Its a bit presumptuous dontyathink?

Look, when I was young I prayed to God to strike it from me. I prayed and prayed. I would think about other things and try to think of women sexually. I hated myself and hated the way I felt. When I realized nothing was happening I decided to be celibate for the rest of my life. I swore NEVER to reveal anything about my feelings. FEELINGS I COULD NOT CHANGE as hard as I tried to change. I could not change them! My Dad hated gays my Mom,.. when she started finding out, told me she would rather I be dead than gay. When my Dad found out ,... he told me he never wanted to see me again. My sisters and bothers ALL turned against me.

So no,... I did not want to be gay and I DID NOT choose it.

Finally, in college, I realized that I wasn't in need of change. Society's screwed up way they treated their own people needed to be changed!


I think you might be a little confused. First of all, these "so called str8 men that like to play on the side" are obviously gay to the true straight man. If you'll refer to our discussion about the bi-sexuals (them), I have already stated my opinion that a conscious decision is being made with no genetic/material origins. That's my opinion of course and you are equally entitled to yours, but I think you're confusing the actions of few with the motives of most..

Well that's where I believe you are wrong. There most certainly are gay man who mascaraed as STR8 men. However, there are bisexual men, a lot of men in general who love their women and their men. Perhaps it is not in the same proportion or the same amount and just because they like men does not mean they are gay? What is this the "one drop" racist rule applied to sexuality?

I don't subscribe to the notion they we are just one way or another like you do. I believe that many people would be open to exploration, as I stated before, if there wasn't this heavy negative stigma against it.


Secondly, I think that society is many times more accepting of the gay community than it was just 20 or 30 years ago. That still doesn't turn your blacks & whites into grays, however. Acceptance is completely different than conversion.

I agree but Jim,... you can be telling me that you think America is now accepting of Gay & Lesbians... I mean come on! Look at IT GETS BETTER (http://www.itgetsbetter.org/) project.

The reason it exists is to STOP GAY teen suicide. Why re they committing suicide? Because of WIDE SPREAD discrimination.

I can cite MANY MANY other examples but why dont you just read the last say... 1000 posts by Freak to get an idea.



. As for 'in their nature' - personally, I make a strong distinction between 'their nature' and 'their genetics' - nature sounds more like a mental characteristic whereas genetics is a material one.

Just a mental characteristic? Mr Jim,... what do you think creates sexual preference in the brain? Dont you think that is an essential thing that would be shaped by genetics?

For example: When you smell roasting potatoes or cookies you want to eat it. What is good about it is that it holds nutrients that you can use. The smell is not really good or bad its just a chemical in the air your brain makes sense of. Why, if you were a fly you would probably feel the same way about a fresh pile of shit. The smell would be intoxicating enough to make your mouth water but it does not because you brain is programed to avoid foods that contain certain bacteria that give off a sent because eating such can cause you to die. You don't choose to find shit yummy and you don't choose to be attracted to a particular sex. :D Its just in you, innate and that was shaped by genetics.

So sexual preference, much like finding certain foods attractive, is also programed in your brain.

[sunny]

:(


I can not even come close to imagining what you went thru....

All I know is you made me cry when I read your response....

[Patt]

Actually Blub, that last bit is very, very wrong - it's called reflex conditioning. The Russian scientist Ivan Petrovich Pavlov's study would prove your hypothesis absolutely wrong in that regard. You might want to look that up. To start you off, here is a site from Nobel Prize. org: http://nobelprize.org/educational/medicine/pavlov/readmore.html

You will find that disassociated perception can stimulate a reflex if incorrectly learned as a behavioral outcome.

[MrJim]

I know I know,... I just a tad peeved with the notion that a STR8 man feels its right to tell me I CHOSE to be gay when I know i didn't..
Its a bit presumptuous dontyathink?

And you get angry for all the wrong reasons. Is it actually a bad thing that I live as if I am in control of my life? I don't think so. See, that's where we have always differed - as a materialist, you want to reduce everything down to electrical impulses in the brain which actually enslaves you; you know, you aren't in control, you are a figment of a group of cells' imagination and do what you're told... is that accurate? I mean, does an alcoholic choose to drink everyday? How about a serial killer, does he or she have to kill? Or from a positive angle, does a caregiver have to help or teacher have to teach? From a materialistic stance, the answer to all of the above would be yes.

That's why I'm not a materialist. I am in control of my life. I change matter, not the other way around. I make my own choices. I actually feel somewhat offended that chemistry would try to me its bitch. But that's just my way of living, which I chose for myself.


Look, when I was young I prayed to God to strike it from me. I prayed and prayed. I would think about other things and try to think of women sexually. I hated myself and hated the way I felt. When I realized nothing was happening I decided to be celibate for the rest of my life. I swore NEVER to reveal anything about my feelings. FEELINGS I COULD NOT CHANGE as hard as I tried to change. I could not change them! My Dad hated gays my Mom,.. when she started finding out, told me she would rather I be dead than gay. When my Dad found out ,... he told me he never wanted to see me again. My sisters and bothers ALL turned against me.

So no,... I did not want to be gay and I DID NOT choose it.

Finally, in college, I realized that I wasn't in need of change. Society's screwed up way they treated their own people needed to be changed!

When you say you didn't want to be, it sounds more like 'no one else wanted me to be and I didn't want to upset them'. Like if they would all have been accepting, you would easily be able to say 'I wanted to'. Again, we're back to dealing with environmental factors rather than what's within. If you are happy with what you've done, and I mean ANYTHING in life not just this, then why the blame-shifting? There's no blame when there is no shame. Shouldn't you be proud of who you are and what you've done? I'm just sayin'...


Well that's where I believe you are wrong. There most certainly are gay man who mascaraed as STR8 men. However, there are bisexual men, a lot of men in general who love their women and their men. Perhaps it is not in the same proportion or the same amount and just because they like men does not mean they are gay? What is this the "one drop" racist rule applied to sexuality?

I don't get your point. If I steal one radish from the grocery store, I am a thief. Likewise. I really don't care what people do behind closed doors, but that doesn't change what they are doing. There is absolutely no way you can convince me that someone who has sex with someone of the same gender is straight. Sorry about that.


I don't subscribe to the notion they we are just one way or another like you do.

Well, you can be both, but it's inclusive. Like, umm, if I eat ten servings of vegetables a day and just one meatball, I'm still not a vegetarian. Large proportions don't cause small ones to vanish.


I believe that many people would be open to exploration, as I stated before, if there wasn't this heavy negative stigma against it.

I'm still not convinced of that. I am certain that I would NEVER be open to exploration of that sort regardless of any stigma, hype, or whatever. Do you recall that the ancient Greeks had a positive stigma attached to homosexuality? Wives were meant for having babies. Men were expected to get their sex from other men. Talk about a confounding society for a straight man.



I agree but Jim,... you can be telling me that you think America is now accepting of Gay & Lesbians... I mean come on! Look at IT GETS BETTER (http://www.itgetsbetter.org/) project.

The reason it exists is to STOP GAY teen suicide. Why re they committing suicide? Because of WIDE SPREAD discrimination.

Well then, they're idiots! They can't control their environments so they let their environments control them. It's pretty easy to move past that, you know, grow up, own up, and learn to be proud and not ashamed of everything. Not everyone gets that but....



Just a mental characteristic? Mr Jim,... what do you think creates sexual preference in the brain? Dont you think that is an essential thing that would be shaped by genetics?

For example: When you smell roasting potatoes or cookies you want to eat it. What is good about it is that it holds nutrients that you can use. The smell is not really good or bad its just a chemical in the air your brain makes sense of. Why, if you were a fly you would probably feel the same way about a fresh pile of shit. The smell would be intoxicating enough to make your mouth water but it does not because you brain is programed to avoid foods that contain certain bacteria that give off a sent because eating such can cause you to die. You don't choose to find shit yummy and you don't choose to be attracted to a particular sex. :D Its just in you, innate and that was shaped by genetics.

So sexual preference, much like finding certain foods attractive, is also programed in your brain.

I'm not sure why you double-posted this (I'm sure there's an analogy in there, but I can't really match it up), but if your brain is programmed to avoid harmful substances, it's failing miserably. Alcohol, drugs, tobacco, caffeine, trans-fats, toxic water, rancid food, bones, rare meat..... I mean, shit, your body allows you to kill it with all kinds of harmful stuff. Nearly everything we consume is bad for you. We are able to do what we want BECAUSE we want. Is that incorrect? I mean, I've never seen a mouth close because the brain knew something harmful was about to enter the body.

[MrJim]

:(


I can not even come close to imagining what you went thru....

All I know is you made me cry when I read your response....

I second that, well, maybe not the crying part, but please don't think I'm heartless when I post this stuff. We just have very different perceptions when it comes to sociology and internal/external issues.

And uh... my post is in jail for some reason. :rolleyes:

[D.C.Rage]

There is a higher instance of gays the more older brothers you have. The theory is the woman develops antibodies of a sort each time a foriegn male is inside her (oo-err).

I don't really think anyone is born gay, some may be born with higher tendencies, be it a too high or too low of a sex drive but ultimately some sort of childhood experience(s) accumulate to tip the balance.

I don't think you can choose everything, even if you completely remove the genetics side of it. I didn't decide I liked pizza more than lettuce, I realised I did.

A racist might not have decided they didn't like whatever race, but hey realised that x race was bad because tey were beaten by said race as a child or whatever. They realised it as a child and it bacame embedded. Now that I say that infact that's how phobias usually start, an event occurs and it becomes embedded in their personality.

ON the physical side of things, without going too far down the spiritual route here, head injuries have had severe effect on personality in the past, without any other effects. Whichever way you want to look at that it's clear the physical structure/chemical balance does affect the personality whether you think there's a soul there or not. Maybe it didn't affect the actual soul if you want to go down that route, but it definately affected the output we recieve.


I have no older brothers, my sex drive is just fine, and my childhood isn't the cause of my sexuality. I didn't 'decide' that I liked girls, I just did. When I was told that what I felt was wrong and God hated me I DID decide to try being with men. I wanted to please my family, fit in with my friends, and make God happy. It took a long time for me to finally accept that I don't like men that way. I have always loved women, as long as I can rembember. My first kiss was with a girl... If I wasn't born this way, well I guess I got here as fast as I could...


One question though: If you aren't sleeping with someone, why do you care who they ARE sleeping with?

[Limbo]

They were careful to emphasize that human sexuality is not an equivalent. Sounds like they doubt the reliability of the study as well:



Honestly, it seems more like a laboratory equivalent to putting a bunch of mice on ecstasy.

Yeah, just throwing it out there for discussion. That shrink was a little too quick to dismiss it outright though in my opinion. Even researchers can be biased by their political and religious beliefs.

IMO, as with most human behaviors and conditions, it is combination of nature and nurture.

[Carrot]

I have no older brothers, my sex drive is just fine, and my childhood isn't the cause of my sexuality. I didn't 'decide' that I liked girls, I just did. When I was told that what I felt was wrong and God hated me I DID decide to try being with men. I wanted to please my family, fit in with my friends, and make God happy. It took a long time for me to finally accept that I don't like men that way. I have always loved women, as long as I can rembember. My first kiss was with a girl... If I wasn't born this way, well I guess I got here as fast as I could...


One question though: If you aren't sleeping with someone, why do you care who they ARE sleeping with?

I didn't say you decided, people with phobias of pidgeons didn't choose to be scared of pidegeons, but It's very real and they weren't born that way afterall.

I don't really care, same way I don't really care about if you believe in god or prefer beer to wine, but I'll discuss it.

[beelzebub]

Actually Blub, that last bit is very, very wrong - it's called reflex conditioning..

Pattycakes,... Reflex conditioning (as in Pavlov's dogs) is NOT the same as what I was illustrating with my example. Your example CONDITIONS a response to a foreign stimuli. I speak to a natural reflex to a common stimuli. No bells are ringing here.

Is that so difficult for you to understand? If so:

My example deals with innate senses. Bacteria produce an "offensive" smell to us. Its "offensive" because its dangerous to us as it can cause our death. Not true for flies but true for humans. Newborns exhibit repulsive behaviors to such smells which is proof that it is NOT conditioned. Thats a fact and not conditioned like what you are offering. Its a genetic ingrained part of our mind that protects us from spoiled food.

I could get you a website but I don't think it would help you.

[Patt]

Pattycakes,... Reflex conditioning (as in Pavlov's dogs) is NOT the same as what I was illustrating with my example. Your example CONDITIONS a response to a foreign stimuli. I speak to a natural reflex to a common stimuli. No bells are ringing here.

Is that so difficult for you to understand? If so:

My example deals with innate senses. Bacteria produce an "offensive" smell to us. Its "offensive" because its dangerous to us as it can cause our death. Not true for flies but true for humans. Newborns exhibit repulsive behaviors to such smells which is proof that it is NOT conditioned. Thats a fact and not conditioned like what you are offering. Its a genetic ingrained part of our mind that protects us from spoiled food.

I could get you a website but I don't think it would help you.

I really don't think so. The reason is that although you choose to believe that aversion is ingrained, I believe a person can be conditioned to either like or dislike something based on a conditioned reflex. Pavlov's dogs proved that and yes, that conditioning and the associated reflex was directly associated with 'survival' writ large.

Consequently, until it is proven and accepted by all, past the point of general theory, I would have to say that at this point, it is still an open question. I do understand that you necessarily accept the theory as given as it automatically plays to your sympathies, but that in no way requires any other to do the same. As of this date, I am NOT convinced.

As was your above post, simply because I disagree, doesn't give you the opening to post in a generally bitchy manor. That simply hypes the stereotypicality of the bitchy gay guy. I would hope you'd moved past that particular phase in life.

[Carrot]

Innate senses definately exist, but can be enhanced, overriden and redirected by outside stimuli and the environment.

We don't need to be conditioned to like sweet things for example, the sweetness is its own reward.

[beelzebub]

I really don't think so. The reason is that although you choose to believe that aversion is ingrained, I believe a person can be conditioned to either like or dislike something based on a conditioned reflex. Pavlov's dogs proved that and yes, that conditioning and the associated reflex was directly associated with 'survival' writ large.

I am not saying anything to the contrary. Certain things are innate like the smell of sulfur is displeasing to us. WHY? Its because most often there are bacteria that emit sulfur compounds and those bacteria are deadly to us. So BEFORE we are borne, BEFORE we are conditioned to anything we find that smell displeasing. WHY? Because those bacteria that emit that smell are DEADLY


As was your above post, simply because I disagree, doesn't give you the opening to post in a generally bitchy manor. That simply hypes the stereotypicality of the bitchy gay guy. I would hope you'd moved past that particular phase in life.

Pattycakes, you have got to stop putting people down JUST because they are sassy or full of sarcasm. Its amazing that someone like you are so put off by that.

I do draw objection to your attempt to stereotype me. I am sure you would feel the same. Be a bitch all you like. LOL

[Patt]

Pattycakes, you have got to stop putting people down JUST because they are sassy or full of sarcasm. Its amazing that someone like you are so put off by that.

I do draw objection to your attempt to stereotype me. I am sure you would feel the same. Be a bitch all you like. LOL

I've often chided you for not realizing how you come off in your postings. I was simply pointing out how you are received - yet again. No, it's not the first time and I'm not the only one. You did say when you returned that you would be more careful. I would hope that your word holds some sort of truth well past the moment of your mea culpa.

[beelzebub]

I've often chided you for not realizing how you come off in your postings. I was simply pointing out how you are received - yet again. No, it's not the first time and I'm not the only one. You did say when you returned that you would be more careful. I would hope that your word holds some sort of truth well past the moment of your mea culpa.

Well it doesnt ... I have been posting like this on here LONG before you and have had a great time. I shall continue to do so.

You are no angel either and I could go on for days about the pompous, self-absorbent ass you are "perceived" to be, but you know what?

WHO GIVES 2 FLYING FUCKS?

You debate,.... I debate,..... We debate.. ..

Now what?

[Patt]

Well it doesnt ... I have been posting like this on here LONG before you and have had a great time. I shall continue to do so.

You are no angel either and I could go on for days about the pompous, self-absorbent ass you are "perceived" to be, but you know what?

WHO GIVES 2 FLYING FUCKS?

You debate,.... I debate,..... We debate.. ..

Now what?

Now I knock your dick in the dirt. http://i852.photobucket.com/albums/ab89/patteurope/LG%20Smileys/SwybEwsE15559789.gif

Ain't lub grand? Now - away from me you crazy person - go iron something.

[eyeonyou]

U 2 I swear! :confused:









LOL

[beelzebub]

Now I knock your dick in the dirt.
Ain't lub grand? Now - away from me you crazy person - go iron something.

I still dont get "Lub"

BTW - I just got finished ironing a tie,.. for my little ones,... imagine that?

[Patt]

I still dont get "Lub"

BTW - I just got finished ironing a tie,.. for my little ones,... imagine that?

Yeah -- "Imagine That" :) :) :) Oh, if you only knew. But, Notties Know. LMAO

[beelzebub]

Yeah -- "Imagine That" :) :) :) Oh, if you only knew. But, Notties Know. LMAO

You still play the power play,... go figure given your occupation. LOL

I prefer dialogue and discourse. Much more entertaining than silly little games and playing with code.

I could care less about your silliness.

[Patt]

You still play the power play,... go figure given your occupation. LOL

I prefer dialogue and discourse. Much more entertaining than silly little games and playing with code.

I could care less about your silliness.

But, you lub me. :)

[D.C.Rage]

I didn't say you decided, people with phobias of pidgeons didn't choose to be scared of pidegeons, but It's very real and they weren't born that way afterall.

I don't really care, same way I don't really care about if you believe in god or prefer beer to wine, but I'll discuss it.

I wasn't attacking you Carrot, what you said just brought up some issues of my own that have nothing to do with you. I swear some people just don't understand that you are who you are and sometimes there is no why :) I enjoy a good debate though!

[yee-haw]

I wasn't attacking you Carrot, what you said just brought up some issues of my own that have nothing to do with you. I swear some people just don't understand that you are who you are and sometimes there is no why :) I enjoy a good debate though!

Well atleast now i know why im a raging alcoholic.. i was born this way.

[beelzebub]

Well atleast now i know why im a raging alcoholic.. i was born this way.

Dont get me started BIG BOY,.. I saw the pics you posted in the real life thread,...

Dark and dangerous theme. You are too cute with the black toboggan looking all rough and tumble:-)

MEOW kitty! is all I have to say. LOL

[D.C.Rage]

Well atleast now i know why im a raging alcoholic.. i was born this way.


Hmm....I tried that excuse once...lol

[MrJim]

I was born an asshole. So if I punch all your teeth out, it's not my fault, really, it's not. Just born that way.

[Limbo]

So if you are "born that way", why would there be cases of people taking a certain drug becoming actively homosexual after being previously exclusively heterosexual?

Man Sues Drug Maker Over Gambling, Gay Sex Addiction (http://abcnewsradioonline.com/health-news/man-sues-drug-maker-over-gambling-gay-sex-addiction.html)


Didier Jambart, 51, of Nantes, France, is suing the British pharmaceutical company GlaxoSmithKline, claiming the drug he took to treat his Parkinson's symptoms, Requip, turned him into a gambling and gay sex addict.

The married father of two said he blew through his family's savings and even took to stealing to finance his online gambling habit, the French Press Agency reported. He also became addicted to gay sex and risky sexual encounters that led to him being raped, his lawyers said.

At least in this case, it doesn't appear this guy was "born that way".

[beelzebub]

So if you are "born that way", why would there be cases of people taking a certain drug becoming actively homosexual after being previously exclusively heterosexual?
At least in this case, it doesn't appear this guy was "born that way".

Oh god,.. Limbo,... posts like this are the REASON why I think you are a tard.

Him saying that he got turned gay does not prove and is NOT evidence proving the idiotic notion that environmental chemicals turn you gay.

What if he is LYING to get the money? What if he was gay all along? I mean,... you offer this as if it is a RESEARCHED and PROVEN FACT?

I really cant believe you,... never mind. I can believe YOU would actually offer this up as evidence.

Ridiculous!

[hitekredneck]

Oh god,.. Limbo,... posts like this are the REASON why I think you are a tard.

Him saying that he got turned gay does not prove and is NOT evidence proving the idiotic notion that environmental chemicals turn you gay.

What if he is LYING to get the money? What if he was gay all along? I mean,... you offer this as if it is a RESEARCHED and PROVEN FACT?

I really cant believe you,... never mind. I can believe YOU would actually offer this up as evidence.

Ridiculous!

ok bub, calm down....can you disprove this theory? do you know the reaction in the brain from all chemical sources? can you honestly say that an effect like that is impossible?

[beelzebub]

ok bub, calm down....can you disprove this theory?

HiTeck,... I am calm....... I just dont suffer fools gladly.

THEORY = a supposition WELL supported with EVIDENCE. Limbo proposes not a theory, its a lawsuit (did you notice?)

There is NO evidence to support that nonsense (yet if you ask the Freak I am sure you will get some so called "evidence"). This is the first time I have ever hear of it and I searched JAMA for anything ,... found ZILCH NADA ZIP
BTW - that does not mean if it was there it would be definitive of anything. I would have to see the particulars and reviewing committee of the study. Nowadays corporate and special interest sponsors are PAYING for results. JAMA and others, in light of the immunization scandal, Journals retract any article that is knows to be suspect. So not there is another level of scrutinization.

And,... its not my responsibility to prove THEM wrong! Its THEIR responsibility to prove their point. THEY provide evidence! I have seen NOTHING but a law suit. HiTeck - you could sue your mother for being white! You gotta believe me on this,.. thats the protocol and the way shit is done. So philosophers (we) dont work that way, otherwise charlatans and sophists would be unbridled in their "non-sense" or better called... "anti-sense" creation.


do you know the reaction in the brain from all chemical sources? can you honestly say that an effect like that is impossible?

Can YOU say that this is true? Hell this is a LAWSUIT not a goddam scientific journal citing thousand of cases within a study. I am sure you can find (pay) some ignorant "STR8" ass to say they drank lemonade and craved a dick (or pussy depending)! You know as well as I do that people will do anything for a BUCK!

Anywho,.. I know your intentions are to be fair and equable but you are mistaken as to "who has to prove what" and "whats the difference between a fucking nutty idea and a Theory".

Furthermore: Limbo needs to THINK (as hard as it may be) before offering up a shit-loaded argument like that.

[Limbo]

This is not an isolated case. It's happened enough that the drug company has put it on the warning label in the list of possible side effects for this drug.

It's so easy to expose Buzz for the biased, closed minded person he really is... completely intolerant of any viewpoint opposed to his.

[hitekredneck]

HiTeck,... I am calm....... I just dont suffer fools gladly.

this is what i'm talking about....to castigate a person simply because they have differing views smacks of the same elitism you despised about freak....


the·o·ry   /ˈθiəri, ˈθɪəri/ Show Spelled
[thee-uh-ree, theer-ee] Show IPA

–noun, plural -ries.
1. a coherent group of general propositions used as principles of explanation for a class of phenomena: Einstein's theory of relativity.
2. a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact.
3. Mathematics . a body of principles, theorems, or the like, belonging to one subject: number theory.
4. the branch of a science or art that deals with its principles or methods, as distinguished from its practice: music theory.
5. a particular conception or view of something to be done or of the method of doing it; a system of rules or principles.
6. contemplation or speculation.
7. guess or conjecture.

so you see, this does fall under "theory"....i don't make any claim to understanding how our bodies react to each and every chemical under the sun...not saying it's factual, just possible until scientifically proven otherwise...

[Carrot]

In that same article:


"There are plenty of reports of people developing side effects from Parkinson's drugs, such as hypersexuality, gambling and excessive shopping," said Dr. David Standaert, professor and interim chairman of neurology and director of the Center for Neurodegeneration and Experimental Therapeutics at the University of Alabama at Birmingham. "It's uncommon, but very dramatic when it happens."

It's estimated that 13.6 percent of people with Parkinson's disease who take dopamine agonists experience behavioral side effects, according to Dr. Mark Stacy, a neurologist at Duke University Medical Center, who first linked the drugs to gambling in 2000.

Side effects of requip:

Drugs.com


Impulse control symptoms, pathological (compulsive) gambling, increased libido including hypersexuality have been reported principally in Parkinson's disease patients treated with dopaminergic drugs, especially at higher doses.

rxlist.com

You may have increased sexual urges, unusual urges to gamble, or other intense urges while taking this medication. Talk with your doctor if you believe you have any intense or unusual urges while taking ropinirole.

medicinenet.com

unusual urges (e.g., increased gambling or sexual urges)

yourlawyer.com

The behavioral changes witnessed in some patients whose therapy includes dopamine agonists can be wide-ranging. On the mild side, some start engaging in benign activities - for example, buying lottery tickets - and nothing more. Others, however, have been known to develop serious OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder), as well as aggressive sexual impulses, overeating, medication abuse, or pathological gambling problems.

Since these personality changes are dramatic and involve conduct that the patient has usually not exhibited in the past, relatives and associates of anyone being treated with Requip should be aware of the potential problem and remain watchful for marked behavioral changes.

[1stoic1]

Being "born that way" does not entail an immunity to change.

[Limbo]

Being "born that way" does not entail an immunity to change.

Well, that's my point... our sexual preference can be changed, at least in some cases. It is not immutable, so to speak.

[beelzebub]

In that same article:
Side effects of requip:
Drugs.com
rxlist.com
medicinenet.com
yourlawyer.com

Thanks carrot,.. these are wonderful examples of how a drug can affect you sex drive. I dont see any of them saying that they turn SRT8 people gay like Limbo is suggesting.

But like I said,.. consider the source.

[beelzebub]

Being "born that way" does not entail an immunity to change.

Nor did say you cant change.

I just think Limbo is full of shit with the "drugs turning ya gay" lawsuit as proof that we are not born that way.

Like I have said I believe there are a lot more bisexual people than people think. They repress their interest in the same sex.

I can see drugs (especially alcohol and ecstasy) allowing those feelings to manifest but .... they arent turning them gay as those desires were there to begin with.

[Carrot]

There's a big difference between wanting to pet a dog and wanting to fuck it.

Calling everone bisexual is ridiculous.

And once I looked into it, limbos point about the drugs isn't just wild speculation, it might even be wrong but I woudn't call the standpoint ridiculous.

Afterall, there are drugs that can cause depression, but there's almost an incomparable difference between feeling sad and feeling suicidally depressed.

If it happens on alchohol or ecstasy, yeah you can hardly blame it. But drus that severly alter behaviour and habits for a long period, far more likely.

[beelzebub]

this is what i'm talking about....to castigate a person simply because they have differing views smacks of the same elitism you despised about freak....

Well perhaps I was a bit harsh but castigate? I dont think so.... I just called him a tard because of his point


so you see, this does fall under "theory"....i don't make any claim to understanding how our bodies react to each and every chemical under the sun...not saying it's factual, just possible until scientifically proven otherwise...

I am going to continue to disagree with you. The word "Theory" has been bastardized by the public and other disciplines partially as a result of the Theory of Evolution. A SCIENTIFIC Theory is a very different thing:

A scientific theory comprises a collection of concepts, including abstractions of observable phenomena expressed as quantifiable properties, together with rules (called scientific laws) that express relationships between observations of such concepts. A scientific theory is constructed to conform to available empirical data about such observations, and is put forth as a principle or body of principles for explaining a class of phenomena.
A scientific theory is a type of inductive theory, in that its content (i.e. empirical data) could be expressed within some formal system of logic whose elementary rules (i.e. scientific laws) are taken as axioms. In a deductive theory, any sentence which is a logical consequence of one or more of the axioms is also a sentence of that theory.
In the humanities, one finds theories whose subject matter does not (only) concern empirical data, but rather ideas. Such theories are in the realm of philosophical theories as contrasted with scientific theories. A philosophical theory is not necessarily scientifically testable through experiment. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory)

Given that this is a drug and its effects on humans ... its in the realm of science. Therefore you would have to look at the use of a Scientific Theory which a Lawsuit,.... is not empirical evidence THEREFORE its ridiculous to treat it as such,... which is what Limbo did.

Another thing you have ass-backwards (pardon the french) is that the protocol is for someone put up a proposition alone and its on US to prove them wrong.
Scientific community does not work that way nor does any other.... I mean do you hear someone saying "McDonalds owes me 1 million dollars and just by that statement being granted a trial??? Come on man!
In addition to putting up a proposition a researcher must accompany this with empirical data to support it.
This is NOT the case with Limbo's lawsuit.

[beelzebub]

There's a big difference between wanting to pet a dog and wanting to fuck it.
Calling everone bisexual is ridiculous.

Really Carrot,... Show me where I said that.


And once I looked into it, limbos point about the drugs isn't just wild speculation, it might even be wrong but I woudn't call the standpoint ridiculous.
Afterall, there are drugs that can cause depression, but there's almost an incomparable difference between feeling sad and feeling suicidally depressed.

I saw your reports on INCREASING sex drive.... NOTHING about switching a person from STR8 to gay.

Its ridiculous to use that lawsuit as PROOF that your not born gay. Ridiculous!!!!

[Carrot]

"alot more people"

ok, not everyone, but whenever that argument is used its pretty much implied.


I saw your reports on INCREASING sex drive.... NOTHING about switching a person from STR8 to gay.

It's more than one lawsuit, that drug has hypersexuality listed as a possible side effect.

Hypersexuality-


Hypersexuality is an increased need, even pressure, for sexual gratification and is often a symptom of mania. It may also include decreased inhibitions or a need for "forbidden" sex.

[beelzebub]

It's more than one lawsuit, that drug has hypersexuality listed as a possible side effect.
Hypersexuality-

"Hypersexuality is an increased need, even pressure, for sexual gratification and is often a symptom of mania. It may also include decreased inhibitions or a need for "forbidden" sex."

Operative words: "MAY" does not mean it happens. - and - "Forbidden" does not mean HOMOsexual.

The breakdown of the word:
Hyper - Increased
Sexuality - Fucking

ergo - Increased Fucking LOL

[Carrot]

Operative word: MAY ,... and Forbidden does not mean HOMOsexual.

The breakdown of the word:
Hyper - Increased
Sexuality - Fucking

ergo - Increased Fucking LOL

MAY, whats ridiculous about mentioning it if it MAY cause it?

And forbidden doesn't mean only homosexual, but I think its fair to say it's included in that category(or even in the patients mind it would be).

Look up the side effecs, other descriptions are "unusual sexual behaviour" etc depending on where you read about it.

[beelzebub]

MAY, whats ridiculous about mentioning it if it MAY cause it?
And forbidden doesn't mean only homosexual, but I think its fair to say it's included in that category(or even in the patients mind it would be).
Look up the side effecs, other descriptions are "unusual sexual behaviour" etc depending on where you read about it.

Look carrot,.. I dont need to because I have already said I believe there are many people that are bi-sexual,.. therefore if they take a drug that makes them "hyper sexual" then it will expand all their sexual proclivities not just heterosexuality.

Furthermore, I have already searched recent publications in JAMA as well as many other medical publishers and found ZILCH saying there is a definitive link between taking a drug and switching sexual preference. You offerings DO NOT SAY homosexual either. I feel you are being disingenuous by bending the definition.

I looked it up too:
Hypersexuality refers to extremely frequent or suddenly increased sexual urges or behaviors. Although hypersexuality can be caused by some medical conditions or medications, in most cases the cause is unknown (wikipedia)

Definition of HYPERSEXUAL: exhibiting unusual or excessive concern with or indulgence in sexual activity (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypersexual)

I dont see your other point... looks like its lost.

Lastly, lets me just entertain the the notion for a second: if some people take the drug and turn gay but not all,... that says their brain and/or body were able to change while the other was not. So they had this ability in them to begin with all they needed was a catalyst. If it was strictly the drug that made them change you would expect near 100% of the people to change.

[Carrot]

What other point? Guess it was lost then.

http://bipolar.about.com/cs/hypersex/a/aa_hypersex.htm


Perhaps you are struggling with hypersexuality. Hypersexuality is an increased need, even pressure, for sexual gratification and is often a symptom of mania. It may also include decreased inhibitions or a need for "forbidden" sex. A forum member in our community described her experiences as follows: "I have a very low sex drive unless I'm manic, in which case I'm willing to do it with anyone or anything, male or female, married or unmarried - all my morals go right out the window. I have gotten myself in serious trouble this way. Aaaagggh!!" Another wrote: "I'll go a few weeks and have to be with my husband every night, sometimes waking him up in the middle of the night if I wake up."

I'm not being disengenous.

Sometimes drugs cause severe side effects, drugs affect different people in different ways. Saying everyone should experience the same side effects in order for them to be taken seriously IS ridiculous. WHat if some people become depressed and some d't, what if some break out in hives and some dont, they had hives all along?

[beelzebub]

Here are some example of the search I JUST did again and FOUND NOTHING in the literature to support Limbos limp point.:

You probably wont be able to see them unless you have a university ID and access to research Journals.

http://web.ebscohost.com/ehost/resultsadvanced?sid=85e64ef1-c27b-4755-a6da-6fe1d5d49262%40sessionmgr111&vid=9&hid=105&bquery=(homosexual+change+drug)&bdata=JmRiPWE5aCZjbGkwPVJWJmNsdjA9WSZ0eXBlPTEmc2l0 ZT1laG9zdC1saXZl

I have repeated it multiple times using different key words all to no avail.

If it is not in the Literature,.. I am not buying it.

Its not in the literature.

[Limbo]

Its ridiculous to use that lawsuit as PROOF that your not born gay. Ridiculous!!!!

My point is that orientation can change. I said this individual wasn't born gay, but his orientation changed when taking these powerful drugs that affect brain chemistry.

Many have argued that sexual preference is an immutable trait similar to skin color. I just don't think that is true. Obviously you disagree.

[beelzebub]

My point is that orientation can change. I said this individual wasn't born gay, but his orientation changed when taking these powerful drugs that affect brain chemistry.
Many have argued that sexual preference is an immutable trait similar to skin color. I just don't think that is true. Obviously you disagree.

Fine Limbo,.. we agree to disagree.

Sorry if I was an ass.... this is just a little close to my heart if you can understand that.

Its not in the literature and I don't believe it.

[beelzebub]

What other point? Guess it was lost then.
http://bipolar.about.com/cs/hypersex/a/aa_hypersex.htm

Please!!???,.. ASK.COM !!! LOL Carrot,... have you lost your mind? Its an article,.. not even PEER REVIEWED! LOL

My definition stands. This is bullshit!


I'm not being disengenous.
Sometimes drugs cause severe side effects, drugs affect different people in different ways. Saying everyone should experience the same side effects in order for them to be taken seriously IS ridiculous. WHat if some people become depressed and some d't, what if some break out in hives and some dont, they had hives all along?

Look,.. I have searched and searched the literature for anything on this topic and IT DOES NOT EXIST. ERGO: I dont believe it and wont till I lay my hands on a peer reviewed study whose design meets the necessary criteria to conclude such a claim.

I dont see your rationale either. So somehow depression and hives are in any way the same as sexual orientation is truly unaware of the intrinsic importance for a species to reproduce and survive.

[Limbo]

Fine Limbo,.. we agree to disagree.

Sorry if I was an ass.... this is just a little close to my heart if you can understand that.

Its not in the literature and I don't believe it.

Yeah, no worries.

[sunny]

My point is that orientation can change. I said this individual wasn't born gay, but his orientation changed when taking these powerful drugs that affect brain chemistry.

Many have argued that sexual preference is an immutable trait similar to skin color. I just don't think that is true. Obviously you disagree.



The idea that a drug/chemical could create a change of orientation is rather odd... but, not out of the question either... we all know brain chemistry is very sensitive, and is also constantly changing. It is not a flat line, the bar is continually changing.

I do know a few people who started off as gay, then changed over to what some would call "normal"....

[Limbo]

The idea that a drug/chemical could create a change of orientation is rather odd... but, not out of the question either... we all know brain chemistry is very sensitive, and is also constantly changing. It is not a flat line, the bar is continually changing.

I do know a few people who started off as gay, then changed over to what some would call "normal"....

Yeah, it's a delicate subject matter, mainly because homosexuals have been treated so badly historically.

Anyways, human beings tend to be very flexible, and behavior and actions can change. We are not slaves to our instincts as most other living things are, we can often override our instincts through reason and force of will, or through the use of drugs that change certain chemical actions in our bodies and brains, or even a mixture of both.

[beelzebub]

The idea that a drug/chemical could create a change of orientation is rather odd... but, not out of the question either... we all know brain chemistry is very sensitive, and is also constantly changing. It is not a flat line, the bar is continually changing.


Well I have searched and searched,... there is NOTHING in the literature that supports this claim.