Union Busting

[Phoenix]

Unless you've been hiding under a rock for the last few months, you know the situation in Wisconsin and the like: laws against collective bargaining rights. I'm surprised nobody has made a thread addressing this, because you'd expect a Communist like me to be bitching about this, but what about capitalists? Isn't this the cornerstone of the free market or something? The right to strike, the right to work or not, the right to tell your boss you're fed up with his shit and walk the fuck out, and demand (essentially) that he either gets new employees or a life? If we take away the right of the workers to organise, how is this any different from the British East India Trading Company insisting that we buy their tea?

[Cabo]

I'm NOT in favor of the hardcore union tactics called sometimes as "collective Bargining" with other union affiliations that make a big fuss mostly.
But I am in favor for workers rights that have been established. I fear this is a chip into the workers general rights.
Overtime pay , Sick Pay, Vacation, Safety..ETC.

[bullfighter]

here comes the beast,here comes the beast..and his buddy mark. you the people would be the lolly pops..

[bullfighter]

one old trick is throw the bone in between two mad dogs..its worked with union and non union for years..the same way the bone goes to the tree huggers and tree cutters..[ the thing to pay attention to is who is throwing the bone and why..there is room for both..the greed and fucking killing giants is where the fight should be ]
I'm NOT in favor of the hardcore union tactics called sometimes as "collective Bargining" with other union affiliations that make a big fuss mostly.
But I am in favor for workers rights that have been established. I fear this is a chip into the workers general rights.
Overtime pay , Sick Pay, Vacation, Safety..ETC.

[Montanarchist]

Over the past year or so I've been rather convinced that accumulated capital in the modern market is the result of forceful intervention, directly or indirectly, and come to accept that the ethics of labor struggle are fully compatible with free market principles. A free market would socialize itself as increased competition in ccapital would cause all profits to approach zero.

There's an interesting article online called precisely "The Ethics of Labor Struggle".

http://mutualist.blogspot.com/2007/04/media-print-projection-embossed-body.html


It's time to take up Sweeney's half-hearted suggestion, not just as a throwaway line, but as a challenge to the bosses. We'll gladly forego legal protections against punitive firing of union organizers, and federal certification of unions, if you'll forego the court injunctions and cooling-off periods and arbitration. We'll leave you free to fire organizers at will, to bring back the yellow dog contract, if you leave us free to engage in sympathy and boycott strikes all the way up and down the production chain, boycott retailers, and strike against the hauling of scab cargo, etc., effectively turning every strike into a general strike. We give up Wagner (such as it is), and you give up Taft-Hartley and the Railway Labor Relations Act. And then we'll mop the floor with your ass.

[mak]

WTF are you talking about?

[bullfighter]

while capalisium is fine untill the greed of the ritch that want it all build there super stores and box in the markett.many things work to a point then the greedy and the killers get in and the good working guy stays a slave or end up dead at the demands of the greedy and killers...one day god will put a stop to the evils that run threw our viens and we will be greatly blessed and joyfull..as for this little time of joy and dispare ,we just have to endure and keep as much integrity as possible..knowing that god will come sooner or later ..our 90 ,100 years is nothing compared to the eternity we will have ........

Over the past year or so I've been rather convinced that accumulated capital in the modern market is the result of forceful intervention, directly or indirectly, and come to accept that the ethics of labor struggle are fully compatible with free market principles. A free market would socialize itself as increased competition in ccapital would cause all profits to approach zero.

There's an interesting article online called precisely "The Ethics of Labor Struggle".

http://mutualist.blogspot.com/2007/04/media-print-projection-embossed-body.html

[seestraight]

First of all, the only unions that are being fought against are those that cover government workers. In the private sector, union bosses negotiate with corporation bosses until a contract is reached. If a contract is not reached, those workers stop work and the citizens either do without a service/product or they can just drive down the street and buy that service/product from another company. The company has to decide if they can still make a profit with the union's demands and make their decision from there. No problem.
In government sector unions however, the union bosses negotiate with the big corporation (government) bosses (politicians) until the union gets what they want. And they pay kickbacks (campaign contributions) to those government bosses to get it done. However, the government bosses don't give a shit about the profits because they just raise the prices on their customers (taxpayers) and borrow against future taxpayers to take care of right fawking now. If the taxpayer doesn't like it..... tough shit. They cannot just go down the road and get a different police force, or fire dept., or school, or etc....... when government employess strike. When that happens the pressure is back on the government bosses to settle at any cost so they can keep their power (get reelected).

[Rec]

Straight shooting and saying what it really is. Kudos!!!! I approve of this post!

[MrRee]

First of all, the only unions that are being fought against are those that cover government workers. In the private sector, union bosses negotiate with corporation bosses until a contract is reached. If a contract is not reached, those workers stop work and the citizens either do without a service/product or they can just drive down the street and buy that service/product from another company. The company has to decide if they can still make a profit with the union's demands and make their decision from there. No problem.
In government sector unions however, the union bosses negotiate with the big corporation (government) bosses (politicians) until the union gets what they want. And they pay kickbacks (campaign contributions) to those government bosses to get it done. However, the government bosses don't give a shit about the profits because they just raise the prices on their customers (taxpayers) and borrow against future taxpayers to take care of right fawking now. If the taxpayer doesn't like it..... tough shit. They cannot just go down the road and get a different police force, or fire dept., or school, or etc....... when government employess strike. When that happens the pressure is back on the government bosses to settle at any cost so they can keep their power (get reelected).

Exctly ! This post is right on!

[Phoenix]

Now see, that's the part that I missed. I thought this ended the collective barganing rights of all workers. This is a different matter entirely. Though does it end the right of fricken everybody to quit at once?

[mak]

I'm thinking that the tide may turn slightly back toward the unions.As the economy had worsened for the past several years,people were happy to be employed under most any conditions and employers could take advantage of the glut of needy workers.As things pick up,employees might feel more entitled.JMHO

[MrJim]

Unless you've been hiding under a rock for the last few months, you know the situation in Wisconsin and the like: laws against collective bargaining rights. I'm surprised nobody has made a thread addressing this, because you'd expect a Communist like me to be bitching about this, but what about capitalists? Isn't this the cornerstone of the free market or something? The right to strike, the right to work or not, the right to tell your boss you're fed up with his shit and walk the fuck out, and demand (essentially) that he either gets new employees or a life? If we take away the right of the workers to organise, how is this any different from the British East India Trading Company insisting that we buy their tea?

Unions haven't had any real bargaining power since, like, the 1950's or so. It's hard to demand more money when replacements are easy to find, especially considering the impact of globalization.

Workers can demand whatever they want, but shouldn't be surprised when the answer is no.


I'm thinking that the tide may turn slightly back toward the unions.As the economy had worsened for the past several years,people were happy to be employed under most any conditions and employers could take advantage of the glut of needy workers.As things pick up,employees might feel more entitled.JMHO

That's something to consider when all the baby boomers retire and jobs likely become more plentiful. Right now, however, you are absolutely right that most workers have just been happy to have a job, ANY job, benefits or no benefits, low-paying, micromanaged, whatever. Workers are just happy to be working.

[WhiteRaven]

Most government employees suck at their job, if they want to bitch about this they can go fuck themselves. Teachers are the most egregious example, and yet they are the ones being defended the most right now. They have no right to complain.

[peepers]

Most government employees suck at their job, if they want to bitch about this they can go fuck themselves. Teachers are the most egregious example, and yet they are the ones being defended the most right now. They have no right to complain.

While I agree that most government workers can't really complain about their jobs I thinkg that some teachers can have it bad depending on their jobs. It depends on how well the school can act finnaically. I think the problem lies with the of the school that don't know how to spend money. I personally went to a well funded high school because of donations from the community and we had a decent principal not saying the administrater was amazing. I'd like to see the government at least at a state level perform and audit and expose them to the public, and show where their tax dollars are really going. It would be interesting.

[Phoenix]

While I agree that most government workers can't really complain about their jobs I thinkg that some teachers can have it bad depending on their jobs. It depends on how well the school can act finnaically. I think the problem lies with the of the school that don't know how to spend money. I personally went to a well funded high school because of donations from the community and we had a decent principal not saying the administrater was amazing. I'd like to see the government at least at a state level perform and audit and expose them to the public, and show where their tax dollars are really going. It would be interesting.
I'd like a fucking itemised receipt.

Not that I pay taxes yet, but when I do, I'd like to know just how much of my tax dollars are going to the president's dinner in paris.

[MrJim]

Most government employees suck at their job, if they want to bitch about this they can go fuck themselves. Teachers are the most egregious example, and yet they are the ones being defended the most right now. They have no right to complain.

My wife is an assistant principal and has been interviewing potential teachers for about a month now. The experienced teachers bomb the interview worse than first year teachers somehow. She can easily tell which ones passed out worksheets and sat at their desks - sadly, it's most of them.

Dallas and Fort Worth ISD had a pretty good plan: they offered teachers buyouts that were worth a small fraction of their yearly salary - as low as $1,000 - and got an overwhelming response. I guess they figured that any teacher that's dumb enough to take the offer is their dead weight. :)

[hitekredneck]

My wife is an assistant principal and has been interviewing potential teachers for about a month now. The experienced teachers bomb the interview worse than first year teachers somehow. She can easily tell which ones passed out worksheets and sat at their desks - sadly, it's most of them.

Sad, ain't it, jim?....i believe it's a direct result of laxity in our higher education....in other words, too much indoctrinization and not enough time spent on subject matter...i can only hope our teachers start ignoring politik in the classroom and return to basic values of teaching our kids what they need to survive our ever-changing world.


Dallas and Fort Worth ISD had a pretty good plan: they offered teachers buyouts that were worth a small fraction of their yearly salary - as low as $1,000 - and got an overwhelming response. I guess they figured that any teacher that's dumb enough to take the offer is their dead weight. :)

this is very telling....if not frightening

[MrJim]

Sad, ain't it, jim?....i believe it's a direct result of laxity in our higher education....in other words, too much indoctrinization and not enough time spent on subject matter...i can only hope our teachers start ignoring politik in the classroom and return to basic values of teaching our kids what they need to survive our ever-changing world.

I think it's the comfort of tenure.

Hype about a coming teacher shortage had been going on for more than decade. Becoming a teacher was a slam dunk if you wanted lifetime employment and a guaranteed annual raise. After a few years of teaching, many teachers felt like they were indispensable.

Now that web of lies has unraveled, and the ones who were in it for all the wrong reasons are finding themselves unqualified for the jobs they had. The sad part is that young graduates who are passionate about teaching can't find a teaching job because the market is so over-saturated.