Mormonism

[Ausinus]

A cult if I ever saw one. They are racist, misogynistic and get this - you only recieve charity from the Mormons if you convert. Absolute bullshit.

[theicidal maniac]

A cult if I ever saw one. They are racist, misogynistic and get this - you only recieve charity from the Mormons if you convert. Absolute bullshit.

That's not ENTIRELY true, Ausi. They also give charity as a BRIBE TO CONVERT.

[kadiddle]

You need to check your facts.
Misogynistic? Ha! My husband treats me like a queen and women are revered. Of course, there are always some men that are exceptions to the rule. That's the case world wide. But mistreatment of women is frowned on.
As far as charity, where did you get your information? LDS people do charitable work for the community all the time, and the church as a whole has given millions of dollars away for relief efforts in Indonesia, the south, Africa, etc. Just because they don't throw it up in people's faces doesn't mean it doesn't get done. We're taught to not cast pearls before swine. Charity should not be done for one's own glory. It should be done to honor God.
And uh..... look up the definition of cult.
"a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc. " Perhaps everyone that belongs to a church or organization of any kind would fall under the category of "cult."

[kadiddle]

Whenever we read ... the cruel and tortuous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize humankind. And, for my own part, I sincerely detest it, as I detest everything that is cruel. -- Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason

Hmmm. Strange analogy. The Bible is a history just like any other history of the past. I suppose when the world reads the history of our civilization to this day, one would surmise, by Thomas Paine's definition, that our history is the word of a demon and must be false. Get real. We're supposed to learn from history how to behave!

[MrJim]

Misogynistic? Ha! My husband treats me like a queen and women are revered. Of course, there are always some men that are exceptions to the rule. That's the case world wide. But mistreatment of women is frowned on.

Apparantly you are Mormon. I don't believe in the Mormon religion, but as far as I have seen with my dealings with them, you guys are really nice. Hopefully you won't prove me wrong. Welcome. And, watch out for theicidal maniac, he has a pretty strong vendetta against Mormons.

[beelzebub]

A cult if I ever saw one. They are racist, misogynistic and get this - you only recieve charity from the Mormons if you convert. Absolute bullshit.


Another thing about Mormons... is has long been a racist religion.

[MrJim]

Another thing about Mormons... is has long been a racist religion.

One thing about racism, it's easy to say it's wrong to be racist when members of other races treat you with the same respect. It's also common for racism to be scowled upon, as long as the 'racist asshole' is white. What doesn't always come up is when white people are rejected, which happens all the time.

If you are white guy in a black neighborhood & school and the black people treat you with the same prejudice that you (supposedly) inflict on them, it's hard to get out of the racist state of mind, at least a little bit. Not to say that you just plain hate black people, but that you are angered when you run into the same black people that treated you wrong and think back to the day when you were the minority. Which is the same thing black people sometimes support the same hate upon. Like 'your great-grandparents probably had slaves', well maybe if they were rich and could afford a few, but I, a hundred years or more later, didn't have anything to do with it, and if someone sees that, then they are racist against whites.

Or when any other race treats you in a way you feel is unfair, and you see someone that appears like someone that would do the same thing, like mexicans robbing the country of food stamps and welfare, while the white person is looked at by such governmental representatives and told to forget about it because they are the 'wrong color'.

I and my wife (technically fiancee for a few more days) have seen these prejudices against whites, so maybe I am different from the new yorkers and californians and many other citizens, other than possibly their alcohol content now thanks to beezlebub's mighty rum, but I will admit to everyone that racism goes both ways and I have been the 'black kid' myself.

[buttless_wonder]

All I know about them is they knock on my door too damn much.

[MrJim]

All I know about them is they knock on my door too damn much.

Never had Mormons do that, just Jehova's Witnesses. Funny, my wife goes places where they put their 'Awake' magazine, like laundromats, and grabs them and throws them away.

[buttless_wonder]

Jehova's Witnesses are actually worse than Mormons because they always have a child with them hoping that will make people think twice before swearing & cussing. That strategy does not work with me.

[theicidal maniac]

One thing about racism, it's easy to say it's wrong to be racist when members of other races treat you with the same respect. It's also common for racism to be scowled upon, as long as the 'racist asshole' is white. What doesn't always come up is when white people are rejected, which happens all the time.

If you are white guy in a black neighborhood & school and the black people treat you with the same prejudice that you (supposedly) inflict on them, it's hard to get out of the racist state of mind, at least a little bit. Not to say that you just plain hate black people, but that you are angered when you run into the same black people that treated you wrong and think back to the day when you were the minority. Which is the same thing black people sometimes support the same hate upon. Like 'your great-grandparents probably had slaves', well maybe if they were rich and could afford a few, but I, a hundred years or more later, didn't have anything to do with it, and if someone sees that, then they are racist against whites.

Or when any other race treats you in a way you feel is unfair, and you see someone that appears like someone that would do the same thing, like mexicans robbing the country of food stamps and welfare, while the white person is looked at by such governmental representatives and told to forget about it because they are the 'wrong color'.

I and my wife (technically fiancee for a few more days) have seen these prejudices against whites, so maybe I am different from the new yorkers and californians and many other citizens, other than possibly their alcohol content now thanks to beezlebub's mighty rum, but I will admit to everyone that racism goes both ways and I have been the 'black kid' myself.

Hey Jim, Mormonism IS a racist faith. A black woman, Jane Elizabeth Manning, was "sealed" to Joseph Smith for time and all eternity as his "servitor." Blacks were allowed to pay tithing and convert other black people, but not allowed to enter Mormon temples because dark skin is a sign of IMPURITY. "Bruce R. McConkie. In his wonderful book, Mormon Doctrine, we read, "Cain, Ham and the whole Negro race have been cursed with a black skin, the mark of Cain, so they can be identified as a caste apart, a people with whom the other descendants of Adam should not inter-marry. Mormon Doctrine, 114"

The holy writings of Mormons clearly state that those with dark skin will be purified when Jesus returns, and that dark features are a curse, for the righteous people to recognize evil men. In the 70's the church finally allowed black men to enter LDS temples and hold the "melchizedek priesthood." THREE DAYS LATERthe church issued a statement that people of different races were not permitted to intermarry, because the general authorities were concerned about black male BYU students impregnating their granddaughters. It is all documented very well in the church's own records, as well as diaries of church leaders.

The book "Mormon America" quotes Brigham Young as characterizing descendants of Cain (black people) as "black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind."
Ostling says that Young specified that the biblical "mark" God put on Cain was "the flat nose and black skin."
Brigham Young ALSO said, "Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so."...Ostling and Ostling, Mormon America, 101

Jan 23,1852 - Brigham Young instructs Utah Legislature to legalize slavery because "we must believe in slavery."
Aug 20,1859 - Brigham Young regarding slavery: "We consider it of divine institution, and not to be abolished until the curse pronounced on Ham shall have been removed from his descendants."

LDS General Authority Mark E. Petersen conjectured that people were born black because before they came to Earth they had offended God in heaven.


Still think it's just a misunderstanding?

[kadiddle]

Hi Jim, I promise to behave as I should. Some people just have to find a group to pick on. I suppose it makes them feel better about themselves.

[kadiddle]

Mr. Maniac, You're so great at quoting, but apparently so puny at understanding. Regardless of what standing a man has in any church, he is still a man and subject to human frailties. And we are all entitled to our opinions. However, "Mormon Doctrine" is not now nor has it ever been "Scripture."
And I happen to have a very close friend who is white...blond and blue eyed in fact, and she is married to a very black man. And... they were married in the temple. Talk to some black LDS people. See if they think it is racist. Why would you know more about racism than they would? And by the way, the church is growing faster in Africa than in any other country.....among black people specifically.
I doubt that all of your "qoutes" are real anyway. It's funny how people filled with hatred towards a particular group of people for whatever reason, will find all the negative and NOTHING positive. Such a Christ-like thing to do. Are you proud of yourself?
By the way, do you find out about Catholicism from a Jew? Funny how if we want to know the truth of something, we seek it from those who hate it the most. Gee, maybe I should talk to a Nazi and find out what he thinks of black people. Should I take whatever he says as gospel truth? That's generally the approach of all the ANTI-Mormons. They go to the very people that HATE mormons to get the so called "truth."
The truth is not revealed through research and studying whatever negative we can find, it comes from the spirit of the Holy Ghost. You won't find that spirit hanging out with the ANti's. But I can promise you it will fill the soul of anyone who visits with the Black saints in Africa. Now they have the spirit of the Holy Ghost with them. They seek the truth by the only avenue with which man will find it.

[kadiddle]

He buttless,
Just get one of those "no soliciting" signs. Maybe that'll work. I don't know. But you might try just being polite. They're usually just two young inexperienced 19 year old guys. Oh, once in awhile, you might find a real pain in the ars, but generally they're just really nice guys. Just tell them you're not interested. Or.... just have a chat with them. I promise they don't bring the baptismal font with them. They aren't supposed to use pressure tactics.
Just don't judge them all by the ones that are relentless. There will always be some that are a pain in the toosh.

[conspiracy]

Apparantly you are Mormon. I don't believe in the Mormon religion, but as far as I have seen with my dealings with them, you guys are really nice. Hopefully you won't prove me wrong. Welcome. And, watch out for theicidal maniac, he has a pretty strong vendetta against Mormons.

If you believe in GOD or a god this guy has a way to tell you off. Check out his profiles and read for yourself how he hates religion in general.



Another thing about Mormons... is has long been a racist religion.

LOL! Every religion to you , Ausinus and Thecidal is racist. Everyone! Amazing.

[conspiracy]

Mr. Maniac, You're so great at quoting, but apparently so puny at understanding. Regardless of what standing a man has in any church, he is still a man and subject to human frailties. And we are all entitled to our opinions. However, "Mormon Doctrine" is not now nor has it ever been "Scripture."
And I happen to have a very close friend who is white...blond and blue eyed in fact, and she is married to a very black man. And... they were married in the temple. Talk to some black LDS people. See if they think it is racist. Why would you know more about racism than they would? And by the way, the church is growing faster in Africa than in any other country.....among black people specifically.
I doubt that all of your "qoutes" are real anyway. It's funny how people filled with hatred towards a particular group of people for whatever reason, will find all the negative and NOTHING positive. Such a Christ-like thing to do. Are you proud of yourself?
By the way, do you find out about Catholicism from a Jew? Funny how if we want to know the truth of something, we seek it from those who hate it the most. Gee, maybe I should talk to a Nazi and find out what he thinks of black people. Should I take whatever he says as gospel truth? That's generally the approach of all the ANTI-Mormons. They go to the very people that HATE mormons to get the so called "truth."
The truth is not revealed through research and studying whatever negative we can find, it comes from the spirit of the Holy Ghost. You won't find that spirit hanging out with the ANti's. But I can promise you it will fill the soul of anyone who visits with the Black saints in Africa. Now they have the spirit of the Holy Ghost with them. They seek the truth by the only avenue with which man will find it.

Welcome aboard. I like you already. LOL.

[conspiracy]

Hey Jim, Mormonism IS a racist faith. A black woman, Jane Elizabeth Manning, was "sealed" to Joseph Smith for time and all eternity as his "servitor." Blacks were allowed to pay tithing and convert other black people, but not allowed to enter Mormon temples because dark skin is a sign of IMPURITY. "Bruce R. McConkie. In his wonderful book, Mormon Doctrine, we read, "Cain, Ham and the whole Negro race have been cursed with a black skin, the mark of Cain, so they can be identified as a caste apart, a people with whom the other descendants of Adam should not inter-marry. Mormon Doctrine, 114"

The holy writings of Mormons clearly state that those with dark skin will be purified when Jesus returns, and that dark features are a curse, for the righteous people to recognize evil men. In the 70's the church finally allowed black men to enter LDS temples and hold the "melchizedek priesthood." THREE DAYS LATERthe church issued a statement that people of different races were not permitted to intermarry, because the general authorities were concerned about black male BYU students impregnating their granddaughters. It is all documented very well in the church's own records, as well as diaries of church leaders.

The book "Mormon America" quotes Brigham Young as characterizing descendants of Cain (black people) as "black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind."
Ostling says that Young specified that the biblical "mark" God put on Cain was "the flat nose and black skin."
Brigham Young ALSO said, "Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so."...Ostling and Ostling, Mormon America, 101

Jan 23,1852 - Brigham Young instructs Utah Legislature to legalize slavery because "we must believe in slavery."
Aug 20,1859 - Brigham Young regarding slavery: "We consider it of divine institution, and not to be abolished until the curse pronounced on Ham shall have been removed from his descendants."

LDS General Authority Mark E. Petersen conjectured that people were born black because before they came to Earth they had offended God in heaven.


Still think it's just a misunderstanding?

Google IS a great search engine isn't it Theacidal? You can find "HATE" in anything and "Racist" in anything.

[hitekredneck]

Google IS a great search engine isn't it Theacidal? You can find "HATE" in anything and "Racist" in anything.

theicidal ain't necessarily a bad guy, he just hates any type of religion whatsoever and doesn'trealize that religion evolves as we do...personally, i don't have a problem with any religion that doesn't preach hate or condemnation, but unfortunately, most do for some people...christianity has evolve from killing all witches and non-believers unlike islamic fundementlism(sorry, spelling sucks in the am)...the only problem with theicidals view, imho, is that he preaches the very same ideals that he rails against, i.e. hatred agains ANY group whether religion or otherwise...and you know what?...it happens all the time, and not just by him :rolleyes:

[Ape-Shit]

I'm not too crazy about the Mormons in general, but I love the concept of having more than one wife. King Faruk had over 100 wives. Now that must have been a challenge.

I understand that when he was living, he actually had a University built just for his children. In return, they named the University after him. Today it is often referred to as "Faruk U.".:p

[conspiracy]

I'm not too crazy about the Mormons in general, but I love the concept of having more than one wife. King Faruk had over 100 wives. Now that must have been a challenge.

I understand that when he was living, he actually had a University built just for his children. In return, they named the University after him. Today it is often referred to as "Faruk U.".:p

LOL.

One wife for me is great. Now the idea of a wife and a crap load of concubines. That's the ticket.

[hitekredneck]

LOL.

One wife for me is great. Now the idea of a wife and a crap load of concubines. That's the ticket.

:p yer both nuts...any man that thinks dealing with one woman is easy needs serious psychriatric evaluation...somebody that thinks dealing with a multitude is simply a masochist! :D

[theicidal maniac]

Mr. Maniac, You're so great at quoting, but apparently so puny at understanding. Regardless of what standing a man has in any church, he is still a man and subject to human frailties. And we are all entitled to our opinions. However, "Mormon Doctrine" is not now nor has it ever been "Scripture."
And I happen to have a very close friend who is white...blond and blue eyed in fact, and she is married to a very black man. And... they were married in the temple. Talk to some black LDS people. See if they think it is racist. Why would you know more about racism than they would? And by the way, the church is growing faster in Africa than in any other country.....among black people specifically.
I doubt that all of your "qoutes" are real anyway. It's funny how people filled with hatred towards a particular group of people for whatever reason, will find all the negative and NOTHING positive. Such a Christ-like thing to do. Are you proud of yourself?


Interesting that you didn't bother to counter any of my points. I guess that's because you know they are all true.

As for you knowing some Mormons who won't admit that they are racist, or knowing some white Mormons who are married to "descendants of Cain" that they met on their mission to a foreign country, well, guess what, that claim doesn't hold any water cause I live in Utah and I know SCORES of Mormons who don't feel that non-white people are equal to white people. Our points cancel eachother out in that round, so who, then can we turn to for the LDS church's position on "colored folk?" HOW ABOUT THE CHURCH'S LEADERS WHO I QUOTED!?!?!?! I think Joseph Smith's and Brigham Young's positions on the subject are painfully clear, and they are not alone.

Read your own churches original teachings about race, touch your roots, know true bigotry.

Yes I realize that Mormon Doctrine is not considered "SCRIPTURE" by you people, but neither is the Doctrine and Covenants, but that D&C is where your religion DEFINES ITSELF. What are Mormons? Any definition you can give about what a mormon believes, does, or does not do is found in the D&C. And THAT isn't "scripture" either.


By the way, do you find out about Catholicism from a Jew? Funny how if we want to know the truth of something, we seek it from those who hate it the most. Gee, maybe I should talk to a Nazi and find out what he thinks of black people. Should I take whatever he says as gospel truth? That's generally the approach of all the ANTI-Mormons. They go to the very people that HATE mormons to get the so called "truth."

No, actually, I would study Catholicism the same way I learned about Mormonism; BY STUDYING IT. I spent a decade studying the Mormon faith. It's complete fantasy. You could take a random sampling of any 5 Mormons and I would bet my entire year's salary that I KNOW MORE ABOUT THE MORMON FAITH THAN THESE PEOPLE WOULD. I am surrounded by Mormons. I DO know more than most of them. It's THEY who know very little about their church, NOT ME. That's why I know it's garbage. You can't know as much as I do and still take it seriously.

BTW, I don't HATE MORMONS, most of my family and many of my closest friends are Mormon. I hate lies and mental slavery.


The truth is not revealed through research and studying whatever negative we can find, it comes from the spirit of the Holy Ghost. You won't find that spirit hanging out with the ANti's. But I can promise you it will fill the soul of anyone who visits with the Black saints in Africa. Now they have the spirit of the Holy Ghost with them. They seek the truth by the only avenue with which man will find it.

Interesting statement. Interesting because you speak COMPLETE BULLSHIT as if it were somehow true. Mormons always say the exact same shit, because it's what they've been told is true, and they just go "OH OKAY, I'LL BELIEVE THAT. WHAT MOTIVE COULD A CHURCH WHO COLLECTS 10% OF MY INCOME POSSIBLY HAVE TO LIE TO ME?" AND THEN YOU JUST REGURGITATE THE SAME OLD TIRED ILLOGICAL MENTAL REFUSE THAT IS WELL PAST IT'S PHILOSOPHICAL EXPIRATION DATE. You can't learn TRUTH through the "holy spirit." You can learn your OPINION, and your perspective. You can ONLY learn TRUTH through EXAMINING REALITY, BECAUSE REALITY IS TRUTH, fantasy heavens in the sky filled with angry gods is not REALITY. If you won't find this "spirit of truth" hanging around anti, then how come the National Academy of Sciences is 93% Atheist? They are the revealers of truth. These are the smartest people our planet has.

[kadiddle]

Conspiracy, thanks for the welcome. I don't fret too much about the hatemongers. When one closes his mind to learning, it's rather humorous!

[kadiddle]

Apesh---, You'll have to join forces with the fundamentalists. They aren't members of the LDS church, but they do practice polygamy.

[kadiddle]

"yer both nuts...any man that thinks dealing with one woman is easy needs serious psychriatric evaluation...somebody that thinks dealing with a multitude is simply a masochist"

We may be LDS, but my husband would totally agree with this one! Ha!

[General Septem]

So tell me kadiddle, do you believe certain pet names for the excrement of a male bovine are offensive unto the Lord?

[kadiddle]

"Yes I realize that Mormon Doctrine is not considered "SCRIPTURE" by you people, but neither is the Doctrine and Covenants, but that D&C is where your religion DEFINES ITSELF. What are Mormons? Any definition you can give about what a mormon believes, does, or does not do is found in the D&C. And THAT isn't "scripture" either."
Uh, wrong, maniac, the D&C IS considered scripture.

"No, actually, I would study Catholicism the same way I learned about Mormonism; BY STUDYING IT. I spent a decade studying the Mormon faith. It's complete fantasy. You could take a random sampling of any 5 Mormons and I would bet my entire year's salary that I KNOW MORE ABOUT THE MORMON FAITH THAN THESE PEOPLE WOULD. I am surrounded by Mormons. I DO know more than most of them. It's THEY who know very little about their church, NOT ME. That's why I know it's garbage. You can't know as much as I do and still take it seriously."



Yep, just what I suspected. Trying to learn by study only, and not by the Spirit. And fantasy? You live in the Mecca of mormonism. I don't think it's fantasy, unless you are dreaming. Anybody, does Utah exist?


"Interesting statement. Interesting because you speak COMPLETE BULLSHIT as if it were somehow true. Mormons always say the exact same shit, because it's what they've been told is true, and they just go "OH OKAY, I'LL BELIEVE THAT. WHAT MOTIVE COULD A CHURCH WHO COLLECTS 10% OF MY INCOME POSSIBLY HAVE TO LIE TO ME?" AND THEN YOU JUST REGURGITATE THE SAME OLD TIRED ILLOGICAL MENTAL REFUSE THAT IS WELL PAST IT'S PHILOSOPHICAL EXPIRATION DATE. You can't learn TRUTH through the "holy spirit." You can learn your OPINION, and your perspective. You can ONLY learn TRUTH through EXAMINING REALITY, BECAUSE REALITY IS TRUTH, fantasy heavens in the sky filled with angry gods is not REALITY. If you won't find this "spirit of truth" hanging around anti, then how come the National Academy of Sciences is 93% Atheist? They are the revealers of truth. These are the smartest people our planet has."

Again, just as I would have suspected. Amazingingly, the scientists and all their stupid theories are the smart ones!!! ROFL! And just as the Bible has foretold for ions of time. Those who think they know it all are the men of science. Darwinism is the perfect example. So intellectual!! ROFL. You say I speak bullshit, but you can't back it up. It's just an opinion, to which you are entitled to. However, I don't need to waste my time with a man so hardened in his heart and so set in his way he has closed his mind. You are a sad and angry person. I could mention a million qoutes to back up my claims and you wouldn't read or hear it at all. But "you have eyes yet you don't see" and "you have ears, but you don't hear." Just like the what was prophesied in the Bible so many times. You are the subject of many Bible stories and you don't even recognize that. So sad. FYI, the wind is a reality, but you can't see it. The planet Uranus is a reality but you haven't seen it and neither have I. Reality isn't always what you see alone.

[kadiddle]

Uh, Septem, were you referring to yourself, ' cause you're rather offensive.

[General Septem]

Uh, Septem, were you referring to yourself, ' cause you're rather offensive.

I was just asking if you think it is wrong to say words like "shit".

I was just ready to put you on the good guys list, too. Guess you really burned that bridge. :D

[theicidal maniac]

Uh, wrong, maniac, the D&C IS considered scripture.
Wow, thanks for proving my point about knowing more than Mormons. The D&C is NOT considered scripture. That's why Mormons justify their soda habit by saying the Word of Wisdom is "just a suggestion."


Yep, just what I suspected. Trying to learn by study only, and not by the Spirit. And fantasy? You live in the Mecca of mormonism. I don't think it's fantasy, unless you are dreaming. Anybody, does Utah exist?[/B]

I knew it wouldn't take much to bring out the judgemental self-righteous side of you. You have no idea HOW I studied your religion. I thought you people weren't supposed to judge. You don't know anything about me, or how I studied, ir how I prayed, or how many people I actually CONVERTED to your religion when I was a teen. You just assume, because that is all your religion gives you; assumption. You can't accept that you could be wrong, so if I disagree, I MUST BE WRONG. But tell me, what do you base this on? YOUR FEELINGS?! How sweet. Send my regards to the unicorns and fairy princesses.


Again, just as I would have suspected. Amazingingly, the scientists and all their stupid theories are the smart ones!!! ROFL! And just as the Bible has foretold for ions of time. Those who think they know it all are the men of science. Darwinism is the perfect example. So intellectual!! ROFL. You say I speak bullshit, but you can't back it up. It's just an opinion, to which you are entitled to. However, I don't need to waste my time with a man so hardened in his heart and so set in his way he has closed his mind. You are a sad and angry person. I could mention a million qoutes to back up my claims and you wouldn't read or hear it at all. But "you have eyes yet you don't see" and "you have ears, but you don't hear." Just like the what was prophesied in the Bible so many times. You are the subject of many Bible stories and you don't even recognize that. So sad. FYI, the wind is a reality, but you can't see it. The planet Uranus is a reality but you haven't seen it and neither have I. Reality isn't always what you see alone. [/B]

What's an ION of time? I've heard of an EON. And I've heard of IONS of atoms. Anyway...the bible has predicted things that are guaranteed to happen. That's like the weatherman predicting that "there will be weather tomorrow" but not saying WHAT the weather will be like. No specifics, just random garbage like "there will be WARS! There will be great nations, and they will fall." WOW. We're all very impressed!

What about all the things the Bible got wrong? Don't like to talk about THOSE things as much, do you? A 6,000 year old Earth located at the center of the universe...THAT IS FLAT! Wow, such truly TIMELESS WISDOM!!! Jesus told his apostles that he would return before they died. Did he?

How can you even type a statement like "the scientists and all their stupid theories" knowing that other people will read it and see what an idiot you are??? How can you do it?? And you criticize Darwinism and say I can't back it up. Go through my posts, and you'll see that I most certainly CAN back it up. But I don't HAVE to, because it is a scientific fact of nature. You don't need the "holy spirit" to see it, you just need to pick up a book!! Not a book like the BOM that made prophesies that never came true, and claims like "Indians" are from Israel.

LOL. Your faith is a joke

[MrJim]

...That's like the weatherman predicting that "there will be weather tomorrow" but not saying WHAT the weather will be like. No specifics, just random garbage...

I believe you, theicidal dipsh...er... maniac... the weathermen here suck ass as bad as you could possible sucks ass... it's a 20% chance of rain tomorrow, well, no shit... that 80% chance against it means nothing of course... oh, well, it will be 80 degrees on Tuesday, further down the road, actually I mean 60 degrees, monday morning=it will be freezing on Tuesday with chances of snow... the weathermen are the ONLY people alive that can get it wrong every day and still keep a job.

So I was interested in a weatherman job, seeing as it takes no skills or accuracy to do the weather, but, oh shit... I have to take many COLLEGE SCIENCE COURSES to get that job.

[buttless_wonder]

He buttless,
Just get one of those "no soliciting" signs. Maybe that'll work. I don't know. But you might try just being polite. They're usually just two young inexperienced 19 year old guys. Oh, once in awhile, you might find a real pain in the ars, but generally they're just really nice guys. Just tell them you're not interested. Or.... just have a chat with them. I promise they don't bring the baptismal font with them. They aren't supposed to use pressure tactics.
Just don't judge them all by the ones that are relentless. There will always be some that are a pain in the toosh.
I have a no soliciting sign in plain sight but it does not stop them. If they choose to ignore my wishes they can deal with my attitude. Please understand this is not a blanket statement but a complaint against those who continue to knock on my door.

I don't care what a person wants to place their faith in, it just does not matter. All I ask is they drink their Kool-Aid and leave me alone.

[kadiddle]

"I was just asking if you think it is wrong to say words like "shit".

I was just ready to put you on the good guys list, too. Guess you really burned that bridge"

I apologize Septem. I think I was just getting a bit defensive. You've humbled me. I don't particularly like to swear, but truth be known, I just typed in "bullshit.com" to find out what it would bring up and here I am. So I would be a bit of a hypocrite if I said I abhore swearing. I don't particularly care for colorful language, but sometimes, there isn't a better choice in a given situation. So I don't mind the term if one is not directing at someone. And I can't think of a better term for this blog spot. Ha!

[kadiddle]

Wow, thanks for proving my point about knowing more than Mormons. The D&C is NOT considered scripture. That's why Mormons justify their soda habit by saying the Word of Wisdom is "just a suggestion."

No, you just proved MY point. You dont' know as much as you claim to know. We have 4 standard works. Count them!! BofM, Bible, D&C, Pearl of Great Price. That would be 4.
I personally don't like soda, so I don't have a habit. And we are all entitled to personal revelation. That's where the "judge not" comes in. I don't approve of caffiene drinks for me, but what others choose to do is not my business.

I knew it wouldn't take much to bring out the judgemental self-righteous side of you. You have no idea HOW I studied your religion. I thought you people weren't supposed to judge. You don't know anything about me, or how I studied, ir how I prayed, or how many people I actually CONVERTED to your religion when I was a teen. You just assume, because that is all your religion gives you; assumption. You can't accept that you could be wrong, so if I disagree, I MUST BE WRONG. But tell me, what do you base this on? YOUR FEELINGS?! How sweet. Send my regards to the unicorns and fairy princesses.

Hmmm, suicidal, do I note a hint of anger? You can judge me but I can't judge you. How convenient for you. And you don't convert. Perhaps that's your problem. The conversion is supposed to come through the spirit. If you've taken all the glory, perhaps it is you that is "self-righteous" and prideful. You are the one that uses the term "wrong" alot. It is not your job to convert or pull away. So why don't you just relax a bit and get so angry and frustrated over things you ought not to be trying to have control over.


What's an ION of time? I've heard of an EON. And I've heard of IONS of atoms. Anyway...the bible has predicted things that are guaranteed to happen. That's like the weatherman predicting that "there will be weather tomorrow" but not saying WHAT the weather will be like. No specifics, just random garbage like "there will be WARS! There will be great nations, and they will fall." WOW. We're all very impressed!

You are speaking a bit shallow here. You need to spend more time reading and pondering.

What about all the things the Bible got wrong? Don't like to talk about THOSE things as much, do you? A 6,000 year old Earth located at the center of the universe...THAT IS FLAT! Wow, such truly TIMELESS WISDOM!!! Jesus told his apostles that he would return before they died. Did he?

Okay, Mr. "I used to be a Mormon." You must have forgotten the article of faith that stated "as far as it is translated correctly. The Bible was written ages ago and has been rewritten in so many languages and man's own interpretation. It is quite impossible to translate from one langauge to another with exactness. And back up some of your words with specifics scriptures you say claim what you say. I don't mind reading, but you need to give a reference.

How can you even type a statement like "the scientists and all their stupid theories" knowing that other people will read it and see what an idiot you are??? How can you do it?? And you criticize Darwinism and say I can't back it up. Go through my posts, and you'll see that I most certainly CAN back it up. But I don't HAVE to, because it is a scientific fact of nature. You don't need the "holy spirit" to see it, you just need to pick up a book!! Not a book like the BOM that made prophesies that never came true, and claims like "Indians" are from Israel.

Hello, are you the know all end all? Even the scientists still call Darwin's Theory a theory. Now your claiming to be smarting than your smartest? Whose self-righteous?
LOL. Your faith is a joke

No sir, you are.

[kadiddle]

So I was interested in a weatherman job, seeing as it takes no skills or accuracy to do the weather, but, oh shit... I have to take many COLLEGE SCIENCE COURSES to get that job.[/QUOTE]

Come on my friend, even if you're wrong, you can be called one of "the smartest people on earth." Go for it! That college degree will get you somewhat of a religious following!

[General Septem]

I apologize Septem. I think I was just getting a bit defensive. You've humbled me.

It's not a problem. :D I'm a Christian myself, so I think you'll find there are things we'll discuss on here that we may agree on.

[kadiddle]

I have a no soliciting sign in plain sight but it does not stop them. If they choose to ignore my wishes they can deal with my attitude. Please understand this is not a blanket statement but a complaint against those who continue to knock on my door.

I don't care what a person wants to place their faith in, it just does not matter. All I ask is they drink their Kool-Aid and leave me alone.

I can't speak for those who ignore your sign, but I do agree with you. And sad to say, there are many LDS who don't heed one of our own Articles of Faith that sates "We claim the privelege of worshipping Almighty God and allow all men the same privelege. Let them worship how, where, or what they may."

I try to be respectful of everyone's way of life. I may not agree, but I don't spend my time isulting or degrading those who believe otherwise. I personally believe that God judges fairly and based on our understanding. We believe it is our duty the spread the gospel and that is why we have missionaries. But they are supposed to be respectful and certainly not use pressure tactics. Unfortunately, there are always those who don't act as they should.

[kadiddle]

It's not a problem. :D I'm a Christian myself, so I think you'll find there are things we'll discuss on here that we may agree on.

Aw! It's refreshing to have a another kind soul on the forum. I do like it when people find the commonalities we have instead of focusing on the differences. We are all here on earth to learn and grow. And we can't do that with exclusivity.

[hitekredneck]

I can't speak for those who ignore your sign, but I do agree with you. And sad to say, there are many LDS who don't heed one of our own Articles of Faith that sates "We claim the privelege of worshipping Almighty God and allow all men the same privelege. Let them worship how, where, or what they may."

I try to be respectful of everyone's way of life. I may not agree, but I don't spend my time isulting or degrading those who believe otherwise. I personally believe that God judges fairly and based on our understanding. We believe it is our duty the spread the gospel and that is why we have missionaries. But they are supposed to be respectful and certainly not use pressure tactics. Unfortunately, there are always those who don't act as they should.

i agree...and you'll have the same kind of people in any faith, including....get ready for it...ATHEISM!!!...yup, i'm still claiming, and very correctly if ya look up the definition of faith, that atheism is a faith system...ok, aussie and theicidal...bring it on!!!:D

[MrJim]

i agree...and you'll have the same kind of people in any faith, including....get ready for it...ATHEISM!!!...yup, i'm still claiming, and very correctly if ya look up the definition of faith, that atheism is a faith system...ok, aussie and theicidal...bring it on!!!:D

Yeah, it's a faith system... belief that the universe's origin is useless floating rocks.

[buttless_wonder]

"I was just asking if you think it is wrong to say words like "shit".

I was just ready to put you on the good guys list, too. Guess you really burned that bridge"
So if I say shit I'm a bad person? So be it, I might even say fuck also.

[theicidal maniac]

No sir, you are.

Excellent retort. I stand corrected. Obviously my logic and factuality can stand no attacks from your faith based irrationality. What a tremendously powerful and persuasive conjectural argument you have compiled here. And it was done so tastefully, using the title "Sir" euphemistically, as if to feign respect in a sly bit of sarcasm. What a powerful spin you have put upon what would otherwise be nothing more than the "I'm rubber, you're glue.." argument that we all know so well. Fantastic! I say, thought provoking and thouroughly thought-out! A real masterpiece and a tribute to mental proficiency.

Bravo!!

[kadiddle]

Excellent retort. I stand corrected. Obviously my logic and factuality can stand no attacks from your faith based irrationality. What a tremendously powerful and persuasive conjectural argument you have compiled here. And it was done so tastefully, using the title "Sir" euphemistically, as if to feign respect in a sly bit of sarcasm. What a powerful spin you have put upon what would otherwise be nothing more than the "I'm rubber, you're glue.." argument that we all know so well. Fantastic! I say, thought provoking and thouroughly thought-out! A real masterpiece and a tribute to mental proficiency.

Bravo!!

Obviously no matter how I treat you or what I say, being a Mormon is so repulsive to you that anything coming from likes of me must be sarcasm, irrational, and euphamistic. You are the one that lacks respect for anyone unless they think exactly as you do. You are the attacker, not I. My Sir was respectful, because I was taught to be respectful to others, regardless of our differences. Your atheist "religion" apparently teaches you the glass is half empty, respect no one, trust no one, and put down anything that hints of godly. Check your blood pressure. You might need some pills.

[Ausinus]

Obviously no matter how I treat you or what I say, being a Mormon is so repulsive to you that anything coming from likes of me must be sarcasm, irrational, and euphamistic. You are the one that lacks respect for anyone unless they think exactly as you do. You are the attacker, not I. My Sir was respectful, because I was taught to be respectful to others, regardless of our differences. Your atheist "religion" apparently teaches you the glass is half empty, respect no one, trust no one, and put down anything that hints of godly. Check your blood pressure. You might need some pills.

I beg your pardon but atheism doesnt teach anything. ^_^

He can just masturbate and have sex more. That has been proven to reduce blood pressure :D

[hitekredneck]

Obviously no matter how I treat you or what I say, being a Mormon is so repulsive to you that anything coming from likes of me must be sarcasm, irrational, and euphamistic. You are the one that lacks respect for anyone unless they think exactly as you do. You are the attacker, not I. My Sir was respectful, because I was taught to be respectful to others, regardless of our differences. Your atheist "religion" apparently teaches you the glass is half empty, respect no one, trust no one, and put down anything that hints of godly. Check your blood pressure. You might need some pills.

don't pay any attention to theicidal when you're discussing religion...he seems to get a little rabid with the subject, and has the tendency to attack any type of faith other than his own with particular vitriol, which can actually be amusing sometimes...the first few times, anyway...he does tend to get a little redundant in his insults, tho...guess all the hate for religion takes from his imagination....:D

[hitekredneck]

I beg your pardon but atheism doesnt teach anything. ^_^

He can just masturbate and have sex more. That has been proven to reduce blood pressure :D

sheesh aussie...atheism teaches all religion is false, homicidal, and the downfall of mankind...you know that, because those are your arguments against religion...i have nomore problems with atheists than i do the devout...provided they show the same courtesy of not shoving their beliefs in my face...my beliefs may not make any sense to anybody else, but that doesn't invalidate them in my mind or heart...:D

[kadiddle]

I beg your pardon but atheism doesnt teach anything. ^_^

No problem, you're pardoned. Doesn't teach anything. That explains alot.


He can just masturbate and have sex more. That has been proven to reduce blood pressure :D

"Volunteers who had had penetrative intercourse were found to be the least stressed, and their blood pressure returned to normal faster than those who had engaged in other forms of sexual activity such as masturbation."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4646010.stm

It appears intercourse is better.

[Ausinus]

"Volunteers who had had penetrative intercourse were found to be the least stressed, and their blood pressure returned to normal faster than those who had engaged in other forms of sexual activity such as masturbation."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4646010.stm

It appears intercourse is better.

Yeah, but masturbation still has some effect :D We ALL know that sex is definitley more effective at everything.

[Ausinus]

sheesh aussie...atheism teaches all religion is false, homicidal, and the downfall of mankind...you know that, because those are your arguments against religion...i have nomore problems with atheists than i do the devout...provided they show the same courtesy of not shoving their beliefs in my face...my beliefs may not make any sense to anybody else, but that doesn't invalidate them in my mind or heart...:D

Eh, my problem is just I get passionate about debating so I come off as a militant atheist sometimes. Perhaps I should convince myself my car keys never existed :D

[kadiddle]

don't pay any attention to theicidal when you're discussing religion...he seems to get a little rabid with the subject, and has the tendency to attack any type of faith other than his own with particular vitriol, which can actually be amusing sometimes...the first few times, anyway...he does tend to get a little redundant in his insults, tho...guess all the hate for religion takes from his imagination....:D


LOL! So I've noticed. Really, I don't take it personally. He's one of a million. I find it rather amusing myself.

[kadiddle]

Eh, my problem is just I get passionate about debating so I come off as a militant atheist sometimes. Perhaps I should convince myself my car keys never existed :D

Guess I'll have to do that as well. So I can let go of all those pairs I thought I once had.

[hitekredneck]

Eh, my problem is just I get passionate about debating so I come off as a militant atheist sometimes. Perhaps I should convince myself my car keys never existed :D

ok, ya fuckin aussie...blame it onme bein a fuckin redneck, but wtf do yer car keys have to do with it?! :confused:

[Ausinus]

ok, ya fuckin aussie...blame it onme bein a fuckin redneck, but wtf do yer car keys have to do with it?! :confused:

I wasnt blaming you on being the trigger happy sheep screwin redneck you are. The car keys were some dry humour.

[hitekredneck]

I wasnt blaming you on being the trigger happy sheep screwin redneck you are. The car keys were some dry humour.

sheep???...don't think i've been quite that drunk, but it might explain why i keep hearin "daaaaa daaaaaa" from the field down the road :D
i just don'tget the keys thang...oh well.....fuckin aussie humor anyway ;)

[Nobody]

Obviously no matter how I treat you or what I say, being a Mormon is so repulsive to you that anything coming from likes of me must be sarcasm, irrational, and euphamistic. You are the one that lacks respect for anyone unless they think exactly as you do. You are the attacker, not I. My Sir was respectful, because I was taught to be respectful to others, regardless of our differences. Your atheist "religion" apparently teaches you the glass is half empty, respect no one, trust no one, and put down anything that hints of godly. Check your blood pressure. You might need some pills.....it may not be your religion, it may be just because you're the last one on here speaking in religious terms. DON'T answer these people, when they ask a question they really don't want an answer for. This is far from a church. You need to be at least face to face to have created a church, the same as if you pray, it has to come from your mouth, not typing on a computer screen. Ignor them, and they will quit trying to answer you... If they truely want answers, let them go to a church and talk to the minister, other wise, they've made their beds.

[kadiddle]

....it may not be your religion, it may be just because you're the last one on here speaking in religious terms. DON'T answer these people, when they ask a question they really don't want an answer for. This is far from a church. You need to be at least face to face to have created a church, the same as if you pray, it has to come from your mouth, not typing on a computer screen. Ignor them, and they will quit trying to answer you... If they truely want answers, let them go to a church and talk to the minister, other wise, they've made their beds.

I couldn't have said it better myself.:)

[theicidal maniac]

Obviously no matter how I treat you or what I say, being a Mormon is so repulsive to you that anything coming from likes of me must be sarcasm, irrational, and euphamistic. You are the one that lacks respect for anyone unless they think exactly as you do. You are the attacker, not I. My Sir was respectful, because I was taught to be respectful to others, regardless of our differences. Your atheist "religion" apparently teaches you the glass is half empty, respect no one, trust no one, and put down anything that hints of godly. Check your blood pressure. You might need some pills.

I have something to say in response;

YOU INITIATED THIS CONVERSATION WITH ME, so who is it that is the "attacker" who lacks respect? It is YOU who are repulsed and threatened by my beliefs, because, unlike my beliefs, yours have no basis in reality or truth, and so I rightfully and logically deny thier validity.

I respect humanity and life, I trust people because I don't have a belief system that teaches me that "the natural man is an enemy to god." I respect life because I realize that this is all we get, right here on Earth, right now. This idea of an immortal soul promotes an irresponsible attitude toward life. Your belief that the Earth was created FOR US and that once WE are done with it, then it will have served it's purpose promotes environmental irresponsibility.

Conversely, there is no set of atheistic beliefs, atheists just don't believe in a god, but their OTHER beliefs are as varied as their individual DNA. Some atheists believe rediculous garbage, too, like bigfoot and alien abduction. I happen to be an atheist to you religious people, but I don't like the word, myself. There is no reason I should have to define myself by what I DON'T believe; I am not an A-gremlinist simply because I don't believe in gremlins! I am a secularist. Secularism is simply a refusal to say that fiction is fact, a logical, rational belief system that closely resembles the scientific method. Logic is math, it is a universal truth.

As far as morals go, I believe that humans are mostly good, unfortunately many people follow faiths that teach that religion is more important than human life, and therefore those who do not accept YOUR religion do not deserve their life. EX. "It is better that one man should die than a nation dwindle in unbelief." You recognize that right from your Book of Mormon? The character Nephi says it right after he beheaded a man who dared to defy Nephi's God...he just said that human life is not the most important thing for humans to concern themselves with, SO WHO LACKS RESPECT FOR HUMAN LIFE? In fact the entire book of mormon is about the righteous slaying the wicked, and God approving.

What a wonderful dogma!

[kadiddle]

I have something to say in response;

YOU INITIATED THIS CONVERSATION WITH ME, so who is it that is the "attacker" who lacks respect? It is YOU who are repulsed and threatened by my beliefs, because, unlike my beliefs, yours have no basis in reality or truth, and so I rightfully and logically deny thier validity.
Oh, so this is your blog site and you don't want any responses. Create your own website where no one can refute you. Then you have no reason to whine about others disagreeing with you. And your non-belief doesn't threaten me or repulse me. Otherwise I would have to think you were more important than God, which I don't.
I respect humanity and life, I trust people because I don't have a belief system that teaches me that "the natural man is an enemy to god." I respect life because I realize that this is all we get, right here on Earth, right now. This idea of an immortal soul promotes an irresponsible attitude toward life. Your belief that the Earth was created FOR US and that once WE are done with it, then it will have served it's purpose promotes environmental irresponsibility.
What a bizarre twist on an idea. Why would a person who believed that life continued on treat it with less respect? We DO have dominion over the earth, which is like being parents over our children. So it would be ridiculous to think that meant we could do with it whatever we wanted. The earth is here for our benefit, so it would behoove us to treat it with respect. You really are a confused person. You like to pursuade others to believe you know more about Mormonism than Mormons do, yet you consistently prove otherwise. You ideas of what we believe or so off base it is rather funny. Conversely, there is no set of atheistic beliefs, atheists just don't believe in a god, but their OTHER beliefs are as varied as their individual DNA. Some atheists believe rediculous garbage, too, like bigfoot and alien abduction. I happen to be an atheist to you religious people, but I don't like the word, myself. There is no reason I should have to define myself by what I DON'T believe; I am not an A-gremlinist simply because I don't believe in gremlins! I am a secularist. Secularism is simply a refusal to say that fiction is fact, a logical, rational belief system that closely resembles the scientific method. Logic is math, it is a universal truth.
Just as there is no reason I should have to define myself by what I believe or don't believe. But in reality, we all do that all the time by our very actions. Your definition of secularism is your own, not the dictionary's. It is not believing in a religion. No where does the definition read "a refusal to say that fiction is fact." That's your interpretation, just as what is fact and what is fiction is your own interpretation.

As far as morals go, I believe that humans are mostly good, unfortunately many people follow faiths that teach that religion is more important than human life, and therefore those who do not accept YOUR religion do not deserve their life. EX. "It is better that one man should die than a nation dwindle in unbelief." You recognize that right from your Book of Mormon? The character Nephi says it right after he beheaded a man who dared to defy Nephi's God...he just said that human life is not the most important thing for humans to concern themselves with, SO WHO LACKS RESPECT FOR HUMAN LIFE? In fact the entire book of mormon is about the righteous slaying the wicked, and God approving.

What a wonderful dogma!
Again, you are so off. The man that was beheaded was wicked and just as has happened in the bible, he was killed so that others may have the opportunity to hear the gospel. I'd prefer that Goliath was killed by David than have Goliath killing hundreds of innocent people. I suppose you'd prefer child molesters to roam free and not be taken out of society, because after all, you RESPECT human life. So who cares about the kids? They aren't to be respected, according to your view of what happened in the Book of Mormon.
Even if there was no God, if you have any morals you would prefer evil men done away with rather than good men. Or do you have a different standard for morality?

[conspiracy]

I have something to say in response;

YOU INITIATED THIS CONVERSATION WITH ME, so who is it that is the "attacker" who lacks respect? It is YOU who are repulsed and threatened by my beliefs, because, unlike my beliefs, yours have no basis in reality or truth, and so I rightfully and logically deny thier validity.

I respect humanity and life, I trust people because I don't have a belief system that teaches me that "the natural man is an enemy to god." I respect life because I realize that this is all we get, right here on Earth, right now. This idea of an immortal soul promotes an irresponsible attitude toward life. Your belief that the Earth was created FOR US and that once WE are done with it, then it will have served it's purpose promotes environmental irresponsibility.

Conversely, there is no set of atheistic beliefs, atheists just don't believe in a god, but their OTHER beliefs are as varied as their individual DNA. Some atheists believe rediculous garbage, too, like bigfoot and alien abduction. I happen to be an atheist to you religious people, but I don't like the word, myself. There is no reason I should have to define myself by what I DON'T believe; I am not an A-gremlinist simply because I don't believe in gremlins! I am a secularist. Secularism is simply a refusal to say that fiction is fact, a logical, rational belief system that closely resembles the scientific method. Logic is math, it is a universal truth.

As far as morals go, I believe that humans are mostly good, unfortunately many people follow faiths that teach that religion is more important than human life, and therefore those who do not accept YOUR religion do not deserve their life. EX. "It is better that one man should die than a nation dwindle in unbelief." You recognize that right from your Book of Mormon? The character Nephi says it right after he beheaded a man who dared to defy Nephi's God...he just said that human life is not the most important thing for humans to concern themselves with, SO WHO LACKS RESPECT FOR HUMAN LIFE? In fact the entire book of mormon is about the righteous slaying the wicked, and God approving.

What a wonderful dogma!

THE attacker? Funny how you start with this. Man is not mostly good. Man by nature is evil. I would think that a person of your studies would know this Theicidal. I actually challenge you to state why you have such a problem with GOD and religion except you don't fucking believe in it? if mainstream family traditions are suppose to accept theories that GOD doesn't exist then WHY do you make such a big deal what we believe? I mean after all, it doesn't effect you.

[theicidal maniac]

THE attacker? Funny how you start with this. Man is not mostly good. Man by nature is evil. I would think that a person of your studies would know this Theicidal.
And I would think that YOU would know better by now than to just throw out stochastic opinion like that and call it fact. That shit might work on AJK, but I'm a lot more intelligent. There is no evidence of "good" and "evil" so there can therefore be no evidence supporting a statement that man is inherently good, or inherently evil. That is why I said "I believe that humans are mostly good." What is evil to you is not necessarily evil to me, and vice versa. For example, I believe that religion is the root of all evil, and you would certainly NOT agree, at least not in terms of YOUR OWN religion. This is an opinion, in light of the fact that "evil" is not a scientifically valid term. It's subjective in nature, and varies from person to person.

I actually challenge you to state why you have such a problem with GOD and religion except you don't fucking believe in it?
A) Nothing you have ever said to me has been challenging.
B) I do not have a problem with your god. That is rather like asking me why I have a problem with unicorns and leprachauns. I just have a problem with people who insist that unicorns and leprachauns are real, and that everyone else must pay homage to them, regardless of whether they themselves indulge in the fantasy. And when the Unicorn believers write a book that says that leprachaun followers are evil, and their deaths are justified, then I have a real problem with people who believe in unicorns.

if mainstream family traditions are suppose to accept theories that GOD doesn't exist then WHY do you make such a big deal what we believe? I mean after all, it doesn't effect you.
This question does not make sense.

What "mainstream family values" are you talking about?

What "theories" that god doesn't exist? There's no theories that god doesn't exist, because there is no evidence of god in the first place. Do you question me about my theory that shadows are not really aliens? I would hope not, because there is nothing to suggest that shadows are extraterrestrial.

What you believe is a big deal because it causes fatal and unnecessary conflict throughout the globe. That certainly DOES effect me.

[theicidal maniac]

Again, you are so off. The man that was beheaded was wicked and just as has happened in the bible, he was killed so that others may have the opportunity to hear the gospel.
That's exactly what I just said: The character Laban was deemed "wicked" by Nephi's god, and so this was used to justify his murder. Don't you find it odd that you believe that the same god that allowed Nephi to lead his family into the promised land after commiting murder actually DENIED MOSES entrance to the promised land for the same act?
Don't you find it odd that the Book of Mormon god talks to Lehi and Nephi on a daily basis, sometimes several times a day, but no other prophet in the Bible ever received so much attention?

At any rate you are still ignoring the fact that the entire book of mormon is about the righteous slaying the wicked, and God approving!!

I haven't said one untrue thing about your religion, so how am I "so off?" Let me tell you what IS "so off;"
Nephi used a steel sword (you'll notice I use brown when I'm talking about something that is total bullshit) to lop off Laban's head
"And I beheld his sword, and I drew it forth from the sheath thereof; and the hilt thereof was of pure gold, and the workmanship thereof was exceedingly fine, and I saw that the blade thereof was of the most precious steel."
Guess what? According to the timeline of the destruction of Jerusalem Nephi found this steel sword 800 years before steel was invented!!!
THAT'S A MIRACLE!!!
Also, your church used to teach (and maybe they still do, although they won't for much longer) that the Lamanites of the Book of Mormon are actually the ancestors of todays Native American Indians. LOL. So as the story goes, some Jews left Israel, traveled west, settled in America, and were given brown skin as a curse for "wickedness" (rationality). Unfortunately, linguists have traced the origins of nearly every Native language on both North AND South America, and guess what? They have no Semitic origin. In other words they are not Jewish descendant languages. They are Asian descendant, which would be consistent with the land bridge theory. Archaeologists have found artifacts in the America's consistent with Asian artifacts. Anthropologists found that the further north they looked in the America's, the more the native culture resembled Asian culture. X chromosome DNA evidence shows the same thing...Native Americans came from Asia. Mitochondrial DNA also shows that Native Americans came from Asians. Any of these findings by themselves would be nearly impossible to argue against, but taken together, it is irrefutable and indisputable evidence that NATIVE AMERICANS ARE THE DESCENDANTS OF ASIANS. They just ARE. There was a time when EVERY mormon you talked to believed that Indians came from Israel on a single boat (even paintings depicting the events of the BoM show the Nephites dressed in traditional Native American garb), but I suspect that your church is already beginning to change this view in light of this evidence, just as it is beginning to do with evolution.

I'd prefer that Goliath was killed by David than have Goliath killing hundreds of innocent people. I suppose you'd prefer child molesters to roam free and not be taken out of society, because after all, you RESPECT human life.
Well, I don't really care which fictional character kills which other fictional character. But child molesters, on the other hand, cause suffering to humans; irreparable, immeasurable suffering, and like rabid dogs they should be destroyed by a qualified medical practitioner or an angry mob. So no, I don't approve of raping children. For instance here in Utah, a lot of Mormon Bishops have been charged with molesting children in their congregations, and I am sure that the children suffered, especially when the LDS church asked the families to please keep quiet, for the sake of the church. I certainly don't approve of any part of THAT scenario.
However, you are confusing the issue, because a lack of a particular religious creed has never been the cause of human suffering. In fact, the contrary is true. Simply put, religion causes war; the major religions are all staking exclusive rights to the salvation of humanity, and each of them wants you to gain converts, and each of them has some form of the teaching "he who is not with God is against him." (that verse is mentioned once in the BoM and several times in the Bible, also found in the Qur'an). This inevitably pits the religions against eachother with mortal consequences.
Human beliefs should never supercede human life, but that is precisely what your religion preaches.

So who cares about the kids? They aren't to be respected, according to your view of what happened in the Book of Mormon.
I have no idea how you came to this conclusion. If you are going to make an accusation like this have the decency to back it up.

Even if there was no God, if you have any morals you would prefer evil men done away with rather than good men. Or do you have a different standard for morality?[/B]
What you call "evil" isn't based on morality. It is based on wrote rehearsal of rituals. Mormon values are not placed on the family, that's just their slogan, not their practice. The value is placed on tithing. Tithing is THE ONLY CONSTANT is LDS history, in fact according to the Mormon faith you can not TRULY be saved unless you pay your tithing to the church, and the majority of tithing goes to build new churches and new temples, to gain new converts who will pay even more tithing. Your religion is a pyramid scheme and your church services are the infomercial, complete with testimonials. That is why they want you to dress nice on Sunday, and have a leather-bound scripture set with your name emblazoned in gold leaf on the cover. That is why women must dress modestly and men can't have facial piercings and must have a specific appearance. This is why smoking is discouraged. It is all to convey the IMAGE of success, so that others will believe that they can obtain wealth by joining. It's why they tell you that if you pay your tithing, god will bless you with more money. For inexplicable reasons, you call this spirituality. You're being scammed.

Before you say "Theicidal, we don't have to pay tithing to be saved," allow me to spare you the embarassment of being proved wrong by showing you how you would be incorrect if you said that:
First off, D&C clearly states that "he who is not tithed shall burn on the last day." My grandmother, who works in the Provo LDS temple, calls this her "fire insurance."
Second, the only way to obtain the highest degree of salvation in your religion is to follow ALL rules (including tithing) and to be married to a member of the opposite sex in an LDS temple. That is absolutely the only way to attain the highest order in your heaven. But in order to be allowed in the temple, YOU MUST BE A FULL TITHE PAYER.

SCAM ALERT!!!

[hitekredneck]

THE attacker? Funny how you start with this. Man is not mostly good. Man by nature is evil. I would think that a person of your studies would know this Theicidal. I actually challenge you to state why you have such a problem with GOD and religion except you don't fucking believe in it? if mainstream family traditions are suppose to accept theories that GOD doesn't exist then WHY do you make such a big deal what we believe? I mean after all, it doesn't effect you.

not meaning to intrude here, bu tman is NOT inherently evil...according to most religions, man is made in god's image...if that's so, and man IS by nature evil, that would make god evil too....now, back to your regularly scheduled debate :cool:

[kadiddle]

Maniac, your name is apropos.
[QUOTE=theicidal maniac;24670]That's exactly what I just said: The character Laban was deemed "wicked" by Nephi's god, and so this was used to justify his murder. Don't you find it odd that you believe that the same god that allowed Nephi to lead his family into the promised land after commiting murder actually DENIED MOSES entrance to the promised land for the same act?

Moses killed out of anger, not because he was directed by God.

Don't you find it odd that the Book of Mormon god talks to Lehi and Nephi on a daily basis, sometimes several times a day, but no other prophet in the Bible ever received so much attention?

]Hmmm. Moses comes to mind[/COLOR].

At any rate you are still ignoring the fact that the entire book of mormon is about the righteous slaying the wicked, and God approving!!

Nope, not ignoring it. Just recognizing that you obviously ignore what the Book of Mormon really is about. But it's not my business to convince you of anything.

I haven't said one untrue thing about your religion, so how am I "so off?" Let me tell you what IS "so off;"

Ah, yes you have. You just want to pretend you haven't. Remember... you know everything. I know nothing. I think there's a Confucious proverb that fits you well. You look it up.

Nephi used a steel sword (you'll notice I use brown when I'm talking about something that is total bullshit) to lop off Laban's head
[ According to the timeline of the destruction of Jerusalem [COLOR="DarkRed"]Nephi found this steel sword 800 years before steel was invented!!!

Because anthropolists are always right. They're scientists, afterall.

Also, your church used to teach (and maybe they still do, although they won't for much longer) that the Lamanites of the Book of Mormon are actually the ancestors of todays Native American Indians. LOL. So as the story goes, some Jews left Israel, traveled west, settled in America, and were given brown skin as a curse for "wickedness" (rationality). Unfortunately, linguists have traced the origins of nearly every Native language on both North AND South America, and guess what? They have no Semitic origin. In other words they are not Jewish descendant languages. They are Asian descendant, which would be consistent with the land bridge theory. Archaeologists have found artifacts in the America's consistent with Asian artifacts. Anthropologists found that the further north they looked in the America's, the more the native culture resembled Asian culture. X chromosome DNA evidence shows the same thing...Native Americans came from Asia. Mitochondrial DNA also shows that Native Americans came from Asians. Any of these findings by themselves would be nearly impossible to argue against, but taken together, it is irrefutable and indisputable evidence that NATIVE AMERICANS ARE THE DESCENDANTS OF ASIANS. They just ARE. There was a time when EVERY mormon you talked to believed that Indians came from Israel on a single boat (even paintings depicting the events of the BoM show the Nephites dressed in traditional Native American garb), but I suspect that your church is already beginning to change this view in light of this evidence, just as it is beginning to do with evolution.

Blah, blah, blah. Again, all those scientists are the smartest people in the world. Their theories have always stayed the same. Never changed. They are your Gods!! You do have a religion!

Well, I don't really care which fictional character kills which other fictional character. But child molesters, on the other hand, cause suffering to humans; irreparable, immeasurable suffering, and like rabid dogs they should be destroyed by a qualified medical practitioner or an angry mob. So no, I don't approve of raping children. For instance here in Utah, a lot of Mormon Bishops have been charged with molesting children in their congregations, and I am sure that the children suffered, especially when the LDS church asked the families to please keep quiet, for the sake of the church. I certainly don't approve of any part of THAT scenario.

Skirting the issue are we? Your CNN friend so despise any religion like you, that if there were so many of these so called incidents, they'd be on it like stink on "bullshit." The Catholic bishops were exposed and if the same were true of Mormon bishops, we would have all heard about it. Have there been some cases of abuse by Mormon leaders? Certainly. It's never been the church's stand that man is perfect. And some are obviously downright evil. Nevertheless, it is you that skirts the issue. You still haven't answered MY question. Apparently, you are the only one entitled to ask questions in your monologues.

However, you are confusing the issue, because a lack of a particular religious creed has never been the cause of human suffering. In fact, the contrary is true. Simply put, religion causes war; the major religions are all staking exclusive rights to the salvation of humanity, and each of them wants you to gain converts, and each of them has some form of the teaching "[B]he who is not with God is against him." (that verse is mentioned once in the BoM and several times in the Bible, also found in the Qur'an). This inevitably pits the religions against eachother with mortal consequences.
Human beliefs should never supercede human life, but that is precisely what your religion preaches.

That's right. So if your human belief is in line with NAMBLA, than you are entitled to molest children. Your beliefs should not require punishment. What a sad commentary.

What you call "evil" isn't based on morality. It is based on wrote rehearsal of rituals. Mormon values are not placed on the family, that's just their slogan, not their practice. The value is placed on tithing. Tithing is THE ONLY CONSTANT is LDS history, in fact according to the Mormon faith you can not TRULY be saved unless you pay your tithing to the church, and the majority of tithing goes to build new churches and new temples, to gain new converts who will pay even more tithing. Your religion is a pyramid scheme and your church services are the infomercial, complete with testimonials. That is why they want you to dress nice on Sunday, and have a leather-bound scripture set with your name emblazoned in gold leaf on the cover. That is why women must dress modestly and men can't have facial piercings and must have a specific appearance. This is why smoking is discouraged. It is all to convey the IMAGE of success, so that others will believe that they can obtain wealth by joining. It's why they tell you that if you pay your tithing, god will bless you with more money. For inexplicable reasons, you call this spirituality. You're being scammed.

However, if you and other atheists do anything decent, we aren't allowed to question your motives. It couldn't be because your a con.

Before you say "Theicidal, we don't have to pay tithing to be saved," allow me to spare you the embarassment of being proved wrong by showing you how you would be incorrect if you said that:
First off, D&C clearly states that "he who is not tithed shall burn on the last day." My grandmother, who works in the Provo LDS temple, calls this her "fire insurance."
Second, the only way to obtain the highest degree of salvation in your religion is to follow ALL rules (including tithing) and to be married to a member of the opposite sex in an LDS temple. That is absolutely the only way to attain the highest order in your heaven. But in order to be allowed in the temple, YOU MUST BE A FULL TITHE PAYER.

Wow! You actually make sense here. You actually spoke the truth for the first time in all your rantings. I'm surprised. I thought you were incapable for a minute. I really should ignore you though. You are such an angry person. Who are you trying to convince here? Your missionary efforts haven't convinced anyone on this forum. They all seem to have come to the same conclusion as I have- You despise religion and your intent is to show disdain for anyone found to be religious. You atheists ought to send out missionaries two by two. It works pretty well. You might have better luck than in a safe, faceless forum like this. I wish you well. And give my regards to your grandmother. She sounds like a sweet lady. Or do you accuse her of being evil?

[kadiddle]

not meaning to intrude here, bu tman is NOT inherently evil...according to most religions, man is made in god's image...if that's so, and man IS by nature evil, that would make god evil too....now, back to your regularly scheduled debate :cool:

Oh please, intrude. At least when I talk with you and others here besides maniac, I can rest assured it is a dialogue. May I just express my opinion on this. Evil has always existed. Was it invented by God? I don't know. Since my belief is we have always existed and we have always had agency to make choices, evil has always existed as well. We can't make choices if bad didn't exist right alongside good. There must be two opposing ideas in order to make a choice. Either way, we are children of God. And as such, we have we have the ability to be good. But we are also earthly beings which God isn't. So we have a tendency to choose evil. However, you make a good point which makes one ponder. Hence the reason for our existence. To learn and grow. I don't believe all the answers are available in this life, but researching and studying and learning is definitely important in this life.
Watch out for maniac downfall here. I'm a absolutely certain he will find fault with everything I said here. I am apparently more evil by nature than most.

[hitekredneck]

Oh please, intrude. At least when I talk with you and others here besides maniac, I can rest assured it is a dialogue. May I just express my opinion on this. Evil has always existed. Was it invented by God? I don't know. Since my belief is we have always existed and we have always had agency to make choices, evil has always existed as well. We can't make choices if bad didn't exist right alongside good. There must be two opposing ideas in order to make a choice. Either way, we are children of God. And as such, we have we have the ability to be good. But we are also earthly beings which God isn't. So we have a tendency to choose evil. However, you make a good point which makes one ponder. Hence the reason for our existence. To learn and grow. I don't believe all the answers are available in this life, but researching and studying and learning is definitely important in this life.
Watch out for maniac downfall here. I'm a absolutely certain he will find fault with everything I said here. I am apparently more evil by nature than most.

sorry to disagree with ya...but just a few notes...evil is actually an idea that goes against popular morality...i.e. we all agree that sex with children is evil...according to our morality...however, if you have a society that views it differently, sex with children can be considered an education (not in my book!)...so you see, evil is just a concept, not concrete at all...i will state here that while i do believe in a higher power, i don't put any faith whatsoever into writings that mankind has created about those higher powers...man himself is fallible as we all know, and there's been just too many interpratations in the 2000+ years that the bible's been around...take a look at one of my earlier threads...i try to take everything with somehumor, and i like to think "god" looks at life the same way...
http://forum.bullshit.com/showthread.php?t=757

[kadiddle]

sorry to disagree with ya...but just a few notes...evil is actually an idea that goes against popular morality...i.e. we all agree that sex with children is evil...according to our morality...however, if you have a society that views it differently, sex with children can be considered an education (not in my book!)...so you see, evil is just a concept, not concrete at all...i will state here that while i do believe in a higher power, i don't put any faith whatsoever into writings that mankind has created about those higher powers...man himself is fallible as we all know, and there's been just too many interpratations in the 2000+ years that the bible's been around...take a look at one of my earlier threads...i try to take everything with somehumor, and i like to think "god" looks at life the same way...
http://forum.bullshit.com/showthread.php?t=757


I do agree with you that evil to one person may be different than evil is to another. But I personally believe that God has a whole different idea on what is evil and what is not. While man's view of evil can be different according to his own understanding, I believe evil in the eyes of God is concrete. We just need to learn what his will is. And I also agree with you that man has corrupted the written word.
By the way, God must have a sense of humor if he invented man! I checked your other post. While my view of God and what he's doing right now is vastly different from yours, ;) I do believe a sense of humor is a Godly trait!

[hitekredneck]

I do agree with you that evil to one person may be different than evil is to another. But I personally believe that God has a whole different idea on what is evil and what is not. While man's view of evil can be different according to his own understanding, I believe evil in the eyes of God is concrete. We just need to learn what his will is. And I also agree with you that man has corrupted the written word.
By the way, God must have a sense of humor if he invented man! I checked your other post. While my view of God and what he's doing right now is vastly different from yours, ;) I do believe a sense of humor is a Godly trait!

i like to think i'm living proof god has a sense of humor...you just don't get through the shit i have without one...as for my view of what god might be doing, i just put myself in His shoes, so to speak...to expound just a little bit, and i'm sure theicidal's gonna have a field day with this one...
god isn't a singular entity...he/she/it is a collective from our many and diverse beliefs....in other words, WE are god...we make the energy that in turn drives the faith...it's hard for me to put this in words that you might understand...as society evolves as a whole, the ideas and ideals of god and religion change...at one time, people believed in multiple dieties, and some still do...just as there's always been religion, there's always been atheism...i don't really find fault with either types of faith, provided they in turn teach morality to the youth...when we start getting into articles of faith that tell us to destroy others for whatever reason, i.e. muslim fundementalists as well as earlier versions of christianity, then it really doesn't make any sense to me at all...not sure if i cleared anything up...think i just confused myself...whattya expect from a beer-guzzling, trigger-happy redneck?...and no sheep allowed, aussie

[kadiddle]

i like to think i'm living proof god has a sense of humor...you just don't get through the shit i have without one...as for my view of what god might be doing, i just put myself in His shoes, so to speak...to expound just a little bit, and i'm sure theicidal's gonna have a field day with this one...
god isn't a singular entity...he/she/it is a collective from our many and diverse beliefs....in other words, WE are god...we make the energy that in turn drives the faith...it's hard for me to put this in words that you might understand...as society evolves as a whole, the ideas and ideals of god and religion change...at one time, people believed in multiple dieties, and some still do...just as there's always been religion, there's always been atheism...i don't really find fault with either types of faith, provided they in turn teach morality to the youth...when we start getting into articles of faith that tell us to destroy others for whatever reason, i.e. muslim fundementalists as well as earlier versions of christianity, then it really doesn't make any sense to me at all...not sure if i cleared anything up...think i just confused myself...whattya expect from a beer-guzzling, trigger-happy redneck?...and no sheep allowed, aussie

Ah! What a breath of fresh air. While we obviously have differing points of view on what/who God is, I believe we do agree on good intentions of the heart. Teaching moral responsiblity to our youth as a whole will create a better world. I suppose it boils down to what our definition of morality is. But I don't like to debate just for the sake of debate or to make a point of "I am right and you are wrong." So long as a person is decent and law-abiding, and is respectful to differences.(Do we have to make an acception for your "sheepish" habits?);)

[Ausinus]

Ah! What a breath of fresh air. While we obviously have differing points of view on what/who God is, I believe we do agree on good intentions of the heart. Teaching moral responsiblity to our youth as a whole will create a better world. I suppose it boils down to what our definition of morality is. But I don't like to debate just for the sake of debate or to make a point of "I am right and you are wrong." So long as a person is decent and law-abiding, and is respectful to differences.(Do we have to make an acception for your "sheepish" habits?);)

I would rather a person be ethical than moral - but yeah, I agree. :)

[theicidal maniac]

Have there been some cases of abuse by Mormon leaders?

Yes, here's a small percentage of them:


Sex Abuse Lawsuit Is Settled By Mormons for $3 Million

By Gustav Niebuhr
New York Times Sep. 5, 2001, A-14

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints disclosed yesterday that it would pay $3 million to settle a suit by an Oregon man who said he was sexually abused as a child by a church member. The suit said Mormon officials had known well in advance of that abuse that the accused man had also faced child molesting allegations before.

Church deals with abuse cases without reporting them, critics say
By PAUL McKAY Copyright 1999 Houston Chronicle May 08, 1999 http://www.nowscape.com/atheism/mo_pedophile.htm

Blame the Victim: Hushing Mormon Sexual Abuse

April 10, 1996
By Marion Smith

Marion Smith, founder of the Intermountain Specialized Abuse Treatment Center, and a longtime chronicler of child sexual abuse, in the shadow of the LDS Church Office Building. Answers to her questions about abuse cover-up are not forthcoming.
With terror, James Adams confessed sexually abusing his two young children to his LDS bishop, stake president and other men in his Beckley, W. V. ward. The children's mother was in Alaska; he had custody of the children. His bishop did not report Adams' abuse to law enforcement. Nothing was done to help or protect the children.

The abuse was sadistic and frequent, and it continued for five more years until the children's mother and state police learned of a 55-minute video tape that Adams made of his molestation of his own children.

A $750 million lawsuit was filed on Jan. 16, 1996 in West Virginia, charging the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints with negligence in reporting child sexual abuse in this case. The lawsuit names as defendants five church officials in Salt Lake City, including President Gordon B. Hinckley. Adams pleaded guilty to 37 counts of child sexual abuse and was sentenced to serve 75 years in prison.
http://www.affirmation.org/news/1996_05.shtml

Salt Lake City, UT. A child sexual abuse victim filed suit against The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Monday, accusing Mormon leaders of providing a safe harbor for the pedophile who abused him. The plaintiff, identified only as A. Doe, claims defendant Mitchell Blake Young abused him between 1987 and 1992, when he was 6 to 12 years old. Young was convicted in 1993 of sexually abusing the boy and is serving a term of up to 15 years in Utah State Prison for the crime. Filed late Monday in 3rd District Court, the suit names Young and his father, Gordon Young. (THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE, July 2, 2002)

LDS Bishop Luis Gonzales has been charged with 20 counts of child molestation, battery, rape, bigamy, stalking, and fraud. The victim, alias Tammy Doe alleges, "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has been fully aware of this man 's illegal activities since 1998 and failed to do anything until the child molestation became public." The trial is being held in the Sacramento County Court House, Department 26 located on H Street. Nancy Cachrane is the Deputy District Attorney for Sacramento County, and is prosecuting this case against Luis Gonzales. (Tapestry Against Polygamy, July 2002)

Multnomah County, OR. A Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints high priest, Franklin Richard Curtis was convicted of sexually abusing a boy repeatedly in 1990 and 1991, in Portland, when he was 11. Curtis became a member of the Rocky Butte Ward in Portland, where he sexually abused at least five children, according to a lawsuit. He was confronted by the Rocky Butte bishop and admitted the molestations. The bishop kept it quiet until parents began to complain, and then he only reported to Salt Lake City superiors of the church, not police, the complaint states. Then Curtis joined the Brentwood Ward, where he told then-Bishop Gregory Lee Foster that he had abused in the past, and Foster kept it quiet because Curtis said he'd repented, according to the complaint. Foster had long known that Curtis also had abused his own stepchildren but still invited Curtis to teach Sunday school, the lawsuit states. (The Oregonian, February 9, 2001)

MILLS Ronald Albert, 69 Orange Mormon and senior Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints member. Receives 3 year jail sentence in NSW District Court after being convicted on 3 counts of unlawful sexual intercourse against girl, aged 12, in 1982 at Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints chapel in Orange, central NSW. Court hears Mills, of Orange, molested girl during maintenance work at church. (New South Wales, Australia, 2001).

Jackson, MI. A Mormon bishop's clerk, Bruce A. McAskill, 66, with a past rape conviction, faces a minimum sentence of 5 years in prison after a judge found him guilty of kissing and fondling a boy, 8, whom he was babysitting. The boy's mother attended McAskill's church. A police officer who was called to the scene said McAskill told him "he didn't see any problem" with an adult sleeping naked with a child. (Jackson Citizen Patriot, 10/25/94)

Utah. The first Native American named as a Mormon general authority, George P. Lee, 51, pleaded guilty to attempted sexual abuse of a girl, now 17. He entered his plea as he was on the verge of being tried on a felony charge of aggravated sexual abuse of the girl, who lived across the street from him. Lee was sentenced to 18 months' probation, fined $1,850, and ordered to undergo counseling and pay for his victim's counseling. Brother Lee told her he had fallen in love with her, and that it was OK with God, the girl reported. (Arizona Republic, 10/12/94; Salt Lake Tribune, 10/11/94)

Scottsdale, AZ. A Mormon bishop, Arlo Kay Atkin, 38, who was excommunicated from the church for sexual misconduct, is being sued by a Mesa woman who says their sexual relationship beginning when she was 15 resulted in a pregnancy and a child, now 4. The suit alleges negligence by the church in trusting him with minors. Atkin, now of Ventura, CA, pleaded guilty in February 1991 to sexual contact with the woman and was sentenced to 4 months in jail. Source: Arizona Republic, 7/8/94

MORMON TEACHER GETS 30 YEARS. Sobbing Mormon Sunday School teacher John Allen Midgett asked for God's forgiveness before being sentenced to 30 years in state prison for molesting & terrorizing 8 girls, ages 5-10. A parent testified Midgett turned her cheerful, trusting daughter into a frightened, scarred recluse. He was also ordered to pay $10,000 in restitution Source: _San Diego Times Union_ 1992, _Los Angeles Times_ 9/12/92.

An undisclosed out-of-court settlement was made by the Mormon Church to Cynthia Brown of Mesa, Az., who accused the church of failing to report to law enforcement authorities that a man had molested her daughter, age 2. A July 1988 ruling by the Arizona Court of Appeals had compelled two Mormon bishops and another church official to testify about conversations they had with RICHARD KENNETH RAY about molesting children. Ray, 47, was sentenced in Sept. 1984 to 61 years in prison for molesting 5 girls, including Brown's daughter. (Arizona Republic, 1/11/90)

D. Campbell, 20, a Mormon missionary from Idaho, was CHARGED with sexually assaulting two Tennessee sisters, ages 7 and 9, at a prayer meeting. David Campbell, of Nashville, president of the missionary program, told the press "That's not true." The thirty two year old woman said "I'll probably be excommunicated over this." She said David Campbell advised her not to call the police, although he denies that too. She also said church officials called her an hour after the missionary's release from jail asking permission for her daughters to "take a lie detector test." Said the mother: "He can deny it all he wants to. He told me not to tell anybody, and not to report it... He said the church's attorneys would look into it. (Idaho Statesman July 21, 1988)

Former Mormon missionary Arthur Gary Bishop, 36, was executed on June 10th in Utah for killing 5 boys (ages 4-13) for sexual gratification, saying he was "misled by Satan." (New York Times 6/10/88)

Mormon Sunday school teacher Thomas Eugene Dawkins was accused of "the worst case of sexual abuse I've ever seen during my 30 years in law enforcement," according to Richard County Sheriff Frank Powell of Elgin, South Carolina. "I'm not sure how a child can cope with something like this." Dawkins was accused of brutally torturing and raping a girl over a two-year period starting when she was 13, terrifying her into submission by cutting her, showing her body parts he kept in jars, and threatening to dissect her. Much of the abuse occurred during church outings, or during privately arranged meetings. Dawkins denied guilt, instead, according to reports, "praying and reading from the Book of Mormon." South Carolina Circuit County Judge John Hamilton Smith termed the abuse of a "sadistic and macabre nature." Dawkins was found guilty and sentenced to 60 years in prison in November 1986. (Source: [Columbia, South Carolina] The State, 4/25/86; 11/8/86)

Mormon Sunday school teacher Art Phillips, 43, of Arizona, was arrested in March and arraigned in April for fondling a 15-year-old girl and "solicitation to commit commercial sexual exploitation of a minor."

[theicidal maniac]

YOU NEED TO LEARN TO USE THE "QUOTE" BUTTON!!!


Maniac, your name is apropos.
[B]Moses killed out of anger, not because he was directed by God.
He believed in a very different god than the BoM talks about. Nevertheless, murder is against Moses' 10 commandments, so why all of a sudden must Nephi become a murderer to prove his faith. His god FORCED HIM to break a commandment, when he could easily have given the man a heart attack. Anyway, the story is as bogus as the King James era English that the book is trying to pull off. Steel didn't exist when this happened.


Hmmm. Moses comes to mind
Moses did not speak with his god every day. Only Nephi and his father get that privelage. That suggests a family history of mental illness rather than prophesy. Why would god need to give them hourly updates?

Nope, not ignoring it. Just recognizing that you obviously ignore what the Book of Mormon really is about. But it's not my business to convince you of anything.
Actually, your church has made QUITE a business of it.


I haven't said one untrue thing about your religion

Ah, yes you have. You just want to pretend you haven't.
Yet you provide NO EXAMPLE!!!


Because anthropolists are always right. They're scientists, afterall.
Well, historically they have been pretty accurate. The same cannot be said for the predictions made by Mormon prophets. Also, I find it odd that you would pick out "anthropolists" (I assume you mean anthropologists)...what of the linguistic, DNA and mtDNA and archaeological evidence? What of the fact that the multi-million dollar archaeological project that David O. McKay approved church funding of REVEALED ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AFTER 30 YEARS??? In fact the official report states the "what is in the ground will never support what is inthe book." Odd, is it not?? No, not so odd at all, if you understand that the BoM is fictional (also admitted in the official report BY THE LDS ARCHAEOLOGIST)!!

Blah, blah, blah. Again, all those scientists are the smartest people in the world. Their theories have always stayed the same. Never changed. They are your Gods!! You do have a religion!
Hmm, I guess if you want to call REALITY a religion...but religion suggests SUPERNATURAL EXPLANATIONS FOR NATURAL PHENOMENON. Supernatural explanations are no longer necessary, for natural explanations now exists, and they are proved.


Skirting the issue are we? Your CNN friend so despise any religion like you, that if there were so many of these so called incidents, they'd be on it like stink on "bullshit." The Catholic bishops were exposed and if the same were true of Mormon bishops, we would have all heard about it. Have there been some cases of abuse by Mormon leaders? Certainly. It's never been the church's stand that man is perfect. And some are obviously downright evil. Nevertheless, it is you that skirts the issue. You still haven't answered MY question. Apparently, you are the only one entitled to ask questions in your monologues
How am I skirting the issue? You asked a question, I answered it. The answer didn't match YOUR answer so I am "skirting?" LOL, I think you need to get some sleep so your brain starts working again.


That's right. So if your human belief is in line with NAMBLA, than you are entitled to molest children. Your beliefs should not require punishment. What a sad commentary
NO you sick fuck. I JUST SAID THAT BELIEFS SHOULD NOT SUPERCEDE HUMAN LIFE. MAYBE YOU SHOULD LOOK UP "SUPERCEDE." Or maybe you should try reading some things that were not published by the LDS church. Someone's beliefs SHOULD NOT be held in higher regard than human life.


However, if you and other atheists do anything decent, we aren't allowed to question your motives. It couldn't be because your a con
WHAT????? What does that even mean? When atheists do decent things you absolutely SHOULD question "why." In fact, if you believe that morality and decency springs from you god, you should ask yourself how people who do not believe the same as you manage to do good things. Questions keep the brain well excercised.


Wow! You actually make sense here. You actually spoke the truth for the first time in all your rantings. I'm surprised. I thought you were incapable for a minute. I really should ignore you though. You are such an angry person. Who are you trying to convince here? Your missionary efforts haven't convinced anyone on this forum. They all seem to have come to the same conclusion as I have- You despise religion and your intent is to show disdain for anyone found to be religious. You atheists ought to send out missionaries two by two. It works pretty well. You might have better luck than in a safe, faceless forum like this. I wish you well. And give my regards to your grandmother. She sounds like a sweet lady. Or do you accuse her of being evil

Again, you've failed to produce an instance or example of me being untruthful. I've been making sense the whole time...you are just barely getting it, and it shows how desperately you are struggling to hold on here. I like how my grandma "sounds like a sweet lady." You know absolutely NOTHING about her except that she is mormon and works in the temple. So THIS is what leads you to believe that she is "sweet?" What a prejudiced person you are. I don't make missionary efforts. It's wrong to try to sell your beliefs to other people in a forced manner. That is not enlightenment, it's submission, acheived not through thoughtful reflection but through intimidation and fear (remember "fire insurance"). "We atheists" can't send out missionaries; we aren't an organization of mad scientists. It just SEEMS that way because as people become more educated they become less religious, and these bright people group together and invent your computers and electrically-operated necessities and eyeglasses and prosthetics and medicine -- and you scoff at science!?!? You question it's relevance? Everything you cherish, including your health, is a gift of scientific advancement. Incidentally my grandmother is the sweetest woman I've ever met. Her husband, a mormon bishop, left her and her 7 children for another woman and a lifestyle of substance abuse. He was Mormon...do you think that he is sweet too?

[kadiddle]

Moses did not speak with his god every day. Only Nephi and his father get that privelage. That suggests a family history of mental illness rather than prophesy. Why would god need to give them hourly updates?



Actually, your church has made QUITE a business of it.


Yet you provide NO EXAMPLE!!!
I have. Again, you choose to ignore it.


Well, historically they have been pretty accurate. The same cannot be said for the predictions made by Mormon prophets. Also, I find it odd that you would pick out "anthropolists" (I assume you mean anthropologists)...what of the linguistic, DNA and mtDNA and archaeological evidence? What of the fact that the multi-million dollar archaeological project that David O. McKay approved church funding of REVEALED ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AFTER 30 YEARS??? In fact the official report states the "what is in the ground will never support what is inthe book." Odd, is it not?? No, not so odd at all, if you understand that the BoM is fictional (also admitted in the official report BY THE LDS ARCHAEOLOGIST)!!

Hmm, I guess if you want to call REALITY a religion...but religion suggests SUPERNATURAL EXPLANATIONS FOR NATURAL PHENOMENON. Supernatural explanations are no longer necessary, for natural explanations now exists, and they are proved.



NO you sick fuck. I JUST SAID THAT BELIEFS SHOULD NOT SUPERCEDE HUMAN LIFE. MAYBE YOU SHOULD LOOK UP "SUPERCEDE." Or maybe you should try reading some things that were not published by the LDS church. Someone's beliefs SHOULD NOT be held in higher regard than human life.

Just as I thought. Because I am a Mormon and I disagree with you, you resort to calling me filthy names. You have no respect for anyone that doesn't agree with you.


WHAT????? What does that even mean? When atheists do decent things you absolutely SHOULD question "why." In fact, if you believe that morality and decency springs from you god, you should ask yourself how people who do not believe the same as you manage to do good things. Questions keep the brain well excercised.

I have never once stated that others who don't feel the same way have no basis for goodness. I don't make a habit of questioning people's beliefs or motivations. You are the one with the habit.


Again, you've failed to produce an instance or example of me being untruthful.

And again, you just fail to remember. I have. Why should I repeat myself? I didn't come here to persuade you. I wouldn't dream of it.

I've been making sense the whole time...you are just barely getting it, and it shows how desperately you are struggling to hold on here.

You are the desperate one. You are screaming, calling me foul names (bold, red, etc.) You seem incredibly desperate. Do you swear to all women? Your grandmother must be proud of you.

I like how my grandma "sounds like a sweet lady." You know absolutely NOTHING about her except that she is mormon and works in the temple. So THIS is what leads you to believe that she is "sweet?" What a prejudiced person you are. I don't make missionary efforts. It's wrong to try to sell your beliefs to other people in a forced manner.

But you are to me. What other reason do you have for swearing and yelling? You're either angry or demanding I agree with you. Nice tactic. So becoming of a good athiest.

That is not enlightenment, it's submission, acheived not through thoughtful reflection but through intimidation and fear (remember "fire insurance").

Uh, it's a bit of a joke. Mormons don't even believe in a burning hell. You should know that. You know everything about us, remember? Ask your grandmother.

"We atheists" can't send out missionaries; we aren't an organization of mad scientists. It just SEEMS that way because as people become more educated they become less religious, and these bright people group together and invent your computers and electrically-operated necessities and eyeglasses and prosthetics and medicine
Let's see, my husband and I and aren't less religious. And they don't even go to BYU! both graduated from college, and we haven't become any less religious. Our children are in college

-- and you scoff at science!?!?

Nope. I happen to have a degree that required many science courses. I love science. I just don't agree with your "scientific" worshipping.

Her husband, a mormon bishop, left her and her 7 children for another woman and a lifestyle of substance abuse. He was Mormon...do you think that he is sweet too?[/QUOTE]
You need to grow up. You talk like a little boy. If he was an athiest, would his crime be any less serious?

[kadiddle]

I would rather a person be ethical than moral - but yeah, I agree. :)

Aussie, I don't care what anybody else says, I think I like you!:D All differences aside, at least you aren't spitting on me through the internet, like Maniac!

[Ausinus]

Aussie, I don't care what anybody else says, I think I like you!:D All differences aside, at least you aren't spitting on me through the internet, like Maniac!

Aww, Im touched. :) But I admit, I am an angry atheist :D

[hitekredneck]

Aww, Im touched. :)

i've been saying that since i met ya :D

[kadiddle]

Great examples of stupid humans. Doesn't make the church WRONG. Where's your postings for catholics, protestants, methodists, lutherans, jews, and....atheists. Hard to find most of them, because nobody cares unless they're mormon. Ever red an article that said "An atheist was accused of sexual molestation."
Or how about "The professed Methodist caught having an affair with a young girl in his congregation."
Nope, you won't find many because the hate-mongers just love to point out the flaws of the mormons.
Human frailty has absolutely nothing to do with proving whether God exists or not. Talk about "barely hanging on."

[Ausinus]

i've been saying that since i met ya :D

I know, and I respect you for that despite you being a blue collar redneck truck driver :D

[hitekredneck]

Great examples of stupid humans. Doesn't make the church WRONG. Where's your postings for catholics, protestants, methodists, lutherans, jews, and....atheists. Hard to find most of them, because nobody cares unless they're mormon. Ever red an article that said "An atheist was accused of sexual molestation."
Or how about "The professed Methodist caught having an affair with a young girl in his congregation."
Nope, you won't find many because the hate-mongers just love to point out the flaws of the mormons.
Human frailty has absolutely nothing to do with proving whether God exists or not. Talk about "barely hanging on."

hate to tell you this, but the catholic church is WAY more recognized for child molestations...protestants and the rest i think are able to keep it more low-key...one thing you needed to point out, this sort of nastiness happens in all sorts of arenas, not just religeous circles...look at our own government for christs sake....my only real problem with theicidal is the fact that he cannot see any good that religion has dealt mankind over the last few hundred years...speaking personally, i have a niece that was, well to put it simply, a crack-whore...once upon a time, she was probably one of the most beautiful young women in this town...she got hooked at the age of 19, and rapidly went downhill, getting involved in several assaults, and a couple of shootings...well, in the last year, she's become "born again" and has been clean since...she now works, takes care of her children as she should, and regularly attends services...if it weren't for religion, she most likely would have continued to self-destruct...

[kadiddle]

hate to tell you this, but the catholic church is WAY more recognized for child molestations...

I did realize that, but maniac obviously doesn't. But I have family members who are catholics and they are good people. I also family members who aren't religious, and they're good people.

protestants and the rest i think are able to keep it more low-key...one thing you needed to point out, this sort of nastiness happens in all sorts of arenas, not just religeous circles...look at our own government for christs sake....

No kidding! Our government, once based on human decency, has gone way downhill.

my only real problem with theicidal is the fact that he cannot see any good that religion has dealt mankind over the last few hundred years...speaking personally, i have a niece that was, well to put it simply, a crack-whore...once upon a time, she was probably one of the most beautiful young women in this town...she got hooked at the age of 19, and rapidly went downhill, getting involved in several assaults, and a couple of shootings...well, in the last year, she's become "born again" and has been clean since...she now works, takes care of her children as she should, and regularly attends services...if it weren't for religion, she most likely would have continued to self-destruct...

Good for her. If it has helped her become a better human being, then so be it.

[hitekredneck]

Good for her. If it has helped her become a better human being, then so be it.

i'ld say that no matter the organization she joined...if satanists helped her get out of that rut, so be it...it's a dangerous ride she was on without a seatbelt...

[theicidal maniac]

I have. Again, you choose to ignore it.
K, guess what...SAYING that you provided an example is different than ACTUALLY PROVIDING ONE.



Just as I thought. Because I am a Mormon and I disagree with you, you resort to calling me filthy names. You have no respect for anyone that doesn't agree with you.
No I called you a sick fuck because you said, and I quote, "So if your human belief is in line with NAMBLA, than you are entitled to molest children." That is something that only a sick fuck would say, ergo, YOU ARE A SICK FUCK!

I have never once stated that others who don't feel the same way have no basis for goodness.
You don't have to, your church said it for you. In fact, that is a pretty standard taching among Christian religions.

I don't make a habit of questioning people's beliefs or motivations. You are the one with the habit.
THAT SHOULD BE A HABIT. If someone does great things with their life, why wouldn't you want to discover why? Likewise, if a particular group of people whose only common denominator is their religion suddenly start blowing up world trade centers or abortion clinics and just being all-around BIGOTS, why wouldn't you want to find out why, and ELIMINATE THE COMMON DENOMINATOR.

And again, you just fail to remember. I have. Why should I repeat myself? I didn't come here to persuade you. I wouldn't dream of it. And again, just saying "I fixed the TV" doesn't fix a TV, and saying "I did provide an example" doesn't provide the example, just like saying "I KNOW the church is true" doesn't bestow knowledge and doesn't make a church true.

You are the desperate one. You are screaming, calling me foul names (bold, red, etc.) You seem incredibly desperate. Do you swear to all women? Your grandmother must be proud of you.
Screaming? huh? Oh you mean TYPING IN CAPS? I'm so sorry, did I offend your sensibilities? How's this? Do I swear to all women?...what a dumbass. Are women too gentle to swear to? My grandma swears. There's nothing wrong with swearing. Why would your god care if you swore? Go to England, fuck isn't such a bad word as it is here. That's because bad words aren't inherently bad, some king somewhere just decided he didn't like the sound of "SHIT" and told people not to say it, and all of a sudden YOU think that GOD doesn't like the word? Funny how people's god's have the same prejudices and enemies as the people themselves.


But you are to me. What other reason do you have for swearing and yelling? You're either angry or demanding I agree with you. Nice tactic. So becoming of a good athiest.
Really? I am to you? I come to your home? YOU INITIATED THIS CONVERSATION WITH ME, AND YOU CONTINUE TO CORRESPOND WITH ME.

Uh, it's a bit of a joke. Mormons don't even believe in a burning hell. You should know that. You know everything about us, remember? Ask your grandmother.
Yes, I'm familiar with the concept of "jokes." YOU SHOULD KNOW that this verse isn't a reference to HELL, it's a reference to something that Mormons DO believe...Jesus returning to Earth and everyone and everything on the planet burning when it happens. Did YOU not KNOW this??


Let's see, my husband and I and aren't less religious. And they don't even go to BYU! both graduated from college, and we haven't become any less religious. Our children are in college
Gee whiz....isn't that school OWNED BY YOUR CHURCH?? It's the laughing stock of the scientific community. In fact they have been involved in several instances of falsifying data.


Nope. I happen to have a degree that required many science courses. I love science. I just don't agree with your "scientific" worshipping.
LOL. A Phys Ed degree requires "many science coureses." Is a gym teacher a physicist?


You need to grow up. You talk like a little boy. If he was an athiest, would his crime be any less serious? [/B] I thought women were supposed to use thousands more words per day than men, yet my vocabulary TRUMPS yours, so far. And I talk like a little boy? That put's you somewhere close to a snail. A tediously slow snail.

[kadiddle]

You maniac, are a bore. Your vocabulary trumps mine with your filth. I said my kids DON'T go to BYU and neither did my husband and I. As usual, you are so pitifully angry that you resort to name calling. My husband and I happen to be nurses and yes, it did require alot of sciences. Are you a physicist or a burger flipper? And you are a liar.
"My church" as you call it has NEVER said that anyone that isn't mormon has no goodness. Quite the contrary, but what does it matter to you? You are hellbent on "converting" other people to hate anyone who feels differently than you. You are the most intolerant person I have ever carried on a conversation with. A message board IS for conversing. You want a soap box where no one can dispute your claims? Take out an advertisement or write your own newspaper.
You've run everyone off and I don't care to deal with an ignorant bore anymore. You are now on my ignore list. So have it.

[Ausinus]

Come on both of you, lets put the claws away. Its a pointless discussion about some random shit now. :D

[theicidal maniac]

You maniac, are a bore. Your vocabulary trumps mine with your filth. I said my kids DON'T go to BYU and neither did my husband and I. As usual, you are so pitifully angry that you resort to name calling. My husband and I happen to be nurses and yes, it did require alot of sciences. Are you a physicist or a burger flipper? And you are a liar.
"My church" as you call it has NEVER said that anyone that isn't mormon has no goodness. Quite the contrary, but what does it matter to you? You are hellbent on "converting" other people to hate anyone who feels differently than you. You are the most intolerant person I have ever carried on a conversation with. A message board IS for conversing. You want a soap box where no one can dispute your claims? Take out an advertisement or write your own newspaper.
You've run everyone off and I don't care to deal with an ignorant bore anymore. You are now on my ignore list. So have it.

Regardless of what you think, you HAVE become less religious as you have become educated. You no longer believe that God ACTUALLY lives in the sky, right? You realize now that magical cretures do not live in your closet, right?

I certainly DON'T want a soapbox where no one can dispute me, that's why I enjoy debating here, although by ignoring me, that's what you've given me. That, and surcease of the idiotic lunacy that is your worldview. I thank you for that. You think I'm angry, but I enjoy this. I want a world where no one can effectively lobby to have their rediculous superstitions taught in a public school, effectively mass-producing ill-informed and confused little people. I want a world where religious people are where they belong; "at the margins of our society, not in our halls of power." (Sam Harris)

[General Septem]

You are hellbent on "converting" other people to hate anyone who feels differently than you. You are the most intolerant person I have ever carried on a conversation with. A message board IS for conversing. You want a soap box where no one can dispute your claims? Take out an advertisement or write your own newspaper.
You've run everyone off and I don't care to deal with an ignorant bore anymore. You are now on my ignore list. So have it.

Glad I'm not the only one.

[theicidal maniac]

Glad I'm not the only one.

LOL. Me too.

[kadiddle]

Come on both of you, lets put the claws away. Its a pointless discussion about some random shit now. :D

I will be the bigger person and get declawed! The conversation was quite pointless, I do agree, because it takes two open-minded people to converse.:D

[kadiddle]

Glad I'm not the only one.

:D LOL!:D I see I do have SOMETHING in common with you General!

[General Septem]

:D LOL!:D I see I do have SOMETHING in common with you General!

I think we probably have a lot in common. :D

[kadiddle]

I think we probably have a lot in common. :D

A sense of humor about life might be the best one! ;)

[hitekredneck]

can't they take a joke? :p
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070324/ap_on_fe_st/mormon_coffee_shirt;_ylt=Avf2RZoSpUfR7_FZFMe6uOcZ. 3QA

[something]

can't they take a joke? :p
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070324/ap_on_fe_st/mormon_coffee_shirt;_ylt=Avf2RZoSpUfR7_FZFMe6uOcZ. 3QA

They're not known for taking jokes.

But what a hell, that's not even offensive. :p

[MrBirdy]

shite!!
wrong page!!

[Realist]

I've never seen so many uneducated comments in one space.
All religions are bullshit.

You all need to read- The god delusion by richard Dawkins.
Also watch Zeitgeist the movie.

Open your eyes.

[Rec]

I've never seen so many uneducated comments in one space.
All religions are bullshit.

You all need to read- The god delusion by richard Dawkins.
Also watch Zeitgeist the movie.

Open your eyes.



Uneducated my foot, one book and one movie will birth a real moron for sure!

[MrRee]

[QUOTE=Realist
I've never seen so many uneducated comments in one space.
All religions are bullshit.

You all need to read- The god delusion by richard Dawkins.
Also watch Zeitgeist the movie.


You are one sorry stupid sack of shit to make that post !
It well shows you are so uneducated you spell farm-E I E I O !
One book and one movie by a couple fools like you is all you have to back your crap up ?
Go back where you came from fool, Your as real as a 3 dollar bill !

[yee-haw]

[QUOTE=Realist
I've never seen so many uneducated comments in one space.
All religions are bullshit.

You all need to read- The god delusion by richard Dawkins.
Also watch Zeitgeist the movie.


You are one sorry stupid sack of shit to make that post !
It well shows you are so uneducated you spell farm-E I E I O !
One book and one movie by a couple fools like you is all you have to back your crap up ?
Go back where you came from fool, Your as real as a 3 dollar bill !


I approve of this post!

[Mrs]

You need to check your facts.
Misogynistic? Ha! My husband treats me like a queen and women are revered. Of course, there are always some men that are exceptions to the rule. That's the case world wide. But mistreatment of women is frowned on.
As far as charity, where did you get your information? LDS people do charitable work for the community all the time, and the church as a whole has given millions of dollars away for relief efforts in Indonesia, the south, Africa, etc. Just because they don't throw it up in people's faces doesn't mean it doesn't get done. We're taught to not cast pearls before swine. Charity should not be done for one's own glory. It should be done to honor God.
And uh..... look up the definition of cult.
"a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc. " Perhaps everyone that belongs to a church or organization of any kind would fall under the category of "cult."

You have got to be kidding me? The Mormons are the most Judgmental, racist people on earth.I dated one for 5 years. They do NOT give unless you are one of them. They do NOT forgive and if you do not play by their rules they shut you out of the church. Church is for sinners right? well you have to be in the in crowd to be a part of the community. The biggest hypocrites on the planet earth. The church is one of the biggest government organizations. Most of the men are cheaters and treat their wives like crud. They all think they are perfect because they are Mormons. The charitable work is only for other Mormons. Like stepford wives ..... I hope one day you open your eyes and see what the real glory is.. What a crock of Bullshit your post is !!

[eyeonyou]

You have got to be kidding me? The Mormons are the most Judgmental, racist people on earth.I dated one for 5 years. They do NOT give unless you are one of them. They do NOT forgive and if you do not play by their rules they shut you out of the church. Church is for sinners right? well you have to be in the in crowd to be a part of the community. The biggest hypocrites on the planet earth. The church is one of the biggest government organizations. Most of the men are cheaters and treat their wives like crud. They all think they are perfect because they are Mormons. The charitable work is only for other Mormons. Like stepford wives ..... I hope one day you open your eyes and see what the real glory is.. What a crock of Bullshit your post is !! None of us walk a perfect path.

All in any group are NOT the same and to say ALL Mormons are as you describe, makes you wrong.

The real glory? Please don't be religious because if you are and are being that judgmental, well just start reading the book again as you missed too much.

As with any group, some are good and some are bad. People are that way. There is also lead by example, NOT just complaining about other groups.

Give a Butthead hell, that's all good, but the whole group??????? Sorry, your point failed.